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2023 St. Louis Cardinals thread -- fuckin' fire him already

Beau Vine

By Beau Vine
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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54254

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26. Tink Hence, RHP, St. Louis Cardinals
Previous ranking: No. 63

Hence has barely pitched, and that’s about the only negative thing I can say about him. The Cardinals’ second second-round pick in 2020, after they took Jordan Walker in the first and Masyn Winn with their prior second-round pick, Hence is already in the mid-90s with a plus changeup and average curveball, throwing plenty of strikes, with athleticism for days. He just had his first-ever 80-pitch start on July 4, as the Cardinals have taken it extremely slowly with him, but he’s recorded 15 outs in five of his last seven outings, so maybe they’re starting to ease up a little bit. There’s not that much evidence that limiting pitch counts this much is going to keep anyone healthy, not that I know of, and Hence has a chance to be really special if he can stay a starter. (How great is that Cardinals’ 2020 draft, by the way? Walker and their last second-round pick Alec Burleson are in the majors, Winn and Hence are top 30 prospects, and fourth-rounder Ian Bedell has been throwing extremely well in High A now that he’s back from Tommy John surgery, with a 1.97 ERA and great peripherals.)

 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45976

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There is no chance this team makes the playoffs.  Any good vibes I get from a fairly typical post-break surge are muted by the knowledge that there's no real point.  The Cards need to be focused on selling players for what they can get and rebuilding.

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jimmyjazz

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I continue to think the presence of Yadi and a still-effective Waino is what set this team apart in recent years.  Oli's an incompetent fool, and Mo benefits from some things that mostly just worked out for him, but he's not the biggest problem.  He is a problem.

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You don't know me

You don't know me 1161

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On 7/27/2023 at 8:40 PM, Beau Vine said:

What a stupid fucking shitshow.

Post-game presser is sure to be infuriating.

Also, Chip Caray is not bright.

 

I am of the opinion that he should not have been thrown out of the game.  What should have happened was the umpires issue warnings to both benches after the first pitch was way in after Contreras went down.  Then on the next one they would have been justified in throwing him out.  In fact, I believe that Mikolas was expecting warnings after the first pitch.  Then when they didn't come, he said fuck it and hit him.

 

Then again, I guess I'm old and think pitchers should be more like Nolan Ryan and Bob Gibson and protect their teammates.

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pops

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So, the sell is on. I know Flaherty has been good the past month but he just always seems like he's either right on the edge of a meltdown or an injury. Don't like losing Montgomery but whatever. I dont like sending DeJong. I think he's been good after getting called back up and can play about anywhere.

I hate losing hicks and I think the cards horribly mismanaged him. Fuck Olli. Fire him already. 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54254

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On 7/30/2023 at 9:35 AM, You don't know me said:

Then again, I guess I'm old and think pitchers should be more like Nolan Ryan and Bob Gibson and protect their teammates.

You think Mikolas needed to protect Contreras from that guy who hugged him when he stood up?

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You don't know me

You don't know me 1161

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I wanted to add some context. He is not as bad as Ozuna, but Happ has a long swing and does hit the catcher from time to time. The biggest issue that I have with this is how the umpires "handled" it. They should have issued warnings to BOTH benches after the first pitch was inside. Mikolas hit Happ in the ass and Happ took it in stride.

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Carl Spackler

Carl Spackler 3486

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17 minutes ago, You don't know me said:
18 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:
You think Mikolas needed to protect Contreras from that guy who hugged him when he stood up?

Yes, I do.

Wow.  If it had been intentional, I could understand plunking him.  But it was clearly unintentional.  A little chin music on the next pitch?  Fine.  But it should have been left at that.  

That said, I tend to agree that the umps should have issued warnings instead of running Mikolas.  But when the plunking is clearly intentional, the umps have the right to give him the heave with no prior warning, so they were within the rules to do what they did.    

 

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You don't know me

You don't know me 1161

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Wow.  If it had been intentional, I could understand plunking him.  But it was clearly unintentional.  A little chin music on the next pitch?  Fine.  But it should have been left at that.  
That said, I tend to agree that the umps should have issued warnings instead of running Mikolas.  But when the plunking is clearly intentional, the umps have the right to give him the heave with no prior warning, so they were within the rules to do what they did.    
 
Payback for a HBP, even unintentional, was part of baseball from the very beginning.

I am not saying that they weren't operating within the rules. I guess what I am saying is that it really wasn't that big of a deal. He didn't hit Happ in the head. He didn't throw at his head. He hit him on the ass. Happ wasn't going to miss any time because of that. Contreras, on the other hand, very well could have missed more than a day or two after getting hit by Happ's long ass swing. The umpires just handled the entire situation shitty, as usual. If they had done the right thing, both benches would have been warned after the first inside pitch. If they had done that, I highly doubt that Mikolas would have hit Happ.

Yeah, I am old school about baseball. The game has changed a lot.

ETA: Who really gives a shit? Meaningless game for the Cardinals. They just suck. Probably some frustration bubbling to the surface for Mikolas.
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Carl Spackler

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3 minutes ago, You don't know me said:

Payback for a HBP, even unintentional, was part of baseball from the very beginning.

I am not saying that they weren't operating within the rules. I guess what I am saying is that it really wasn't that big of a deal. He didn't hit Happ in the head. He didn't throw at his head. He hit him on the ass. Happ wasn't going to miss any time because of that. Contreras, on the other hand, very well could have missed more than a day or two after getting hit by Happ's long ass swing. The umpires just handled the entire situation shitty, as usual. If they had done the right thing, both benches would have been warned after the first inside pitch. If they had done that, I highly doubt that Mikolas would have hit Happ.

Yeah, I am old school about baseball. The game has changed a lot.

Fair enough.  I don't agree with everything you wrote, but I definitely agree that if the ump had issued warnings after the pitch that was high and tight, Mikolas almost certainly wouldn't have hit Happ with the next pitch.  Fortunately, it looks like Contreras isn't too much the worse for wear -- I see he's back in the lineup.

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You don't know me

You don't know me 1161

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Fair enough.  I don't agree with everything you wrote, but I definitely agree that if the ump had issued warnings after the pitch that was high and tight, Mikolas almost certainly wouldn't have hit Happ with the next pitch.  Fortunately, it looks like Contreras isn't too much the worse for wear -- I see he's back in the lineup.
Yeah, bottom line for me is that the umpires fucked it up. I will also concede that the Cardinals' announcers sounded like morons on that call. Chip has irritated me a bit more each broadcast. I normally like Brad Thompson, but he got just a tad over emotional when Mikolas was tossed.
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pops

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8 hours ago, You don't know me said:

Do you all think we see Masyn Winn get real playing time this season?

Yeah.... but I don't think they will call him up until this year doesn't count so he is still a rookie next year. 

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VirginiaLonghorn

VirginiaLonghorn 4777

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On 8/1/2023 at 6:49 PM, pops said:

So, the sell is on. I know Flaherty has been good the past month but he just always seems like he's either right on the edge of a meltdown or an injury. Don't like losing Montgomery but whatever. I dont like sending DeJong. I think he's been good after getting called back up and can play about anywhere.

I hate losing hicks and I think the cards horribly mismanaged him. Fuck Olli. Fire him already. 

Flaherty was good yesterday.  He had command of multiple pitches, was ahead in the count consistently, and left the Blue Jays little choice but to swing at his pitches.  At one stretch, he retired 15 in a row.

That’ll work …

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pops

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2 hours ago, VirginiaLonghorn said:

Flaherty was good yesterday.  He had command of multiple pitches, was ahead in the count consistently, and left the Blue Jays little choice but to swing at his pitches.  At one stretch, he retired 15 in a row.

That’ll work …

Yeah I caught the middle innings. As good as I've seen him look this year. It was weird watching him pitch to DeJong 

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pops

pops 7003

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Waino should have retired last year with yadi and Albert. But.... that was pretty fun to watch last night. He was really sharp.

These last 2 week have been so infuriating, though and prove oli isn't a good manager. You don't have a team in the cellar that can beat the braves and orioles in series wrapped around beating the reds who are fighting for the playoffs. While you lose series to Pittsburgh and the Mets and the Phillies and other shit teams. Oli fucking sucks. 

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Capn81

Capn81 373

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By saying that Oli has done a good job, Mowtie is saying the he did a shitty one.

Exactly. Oli is a part of the problem, but he is not steering the ship.

The FO says they intend to get three starters this off-season. I guess I am having a hard time seeing where three quality starters come from without trading assets. Unfortunately, I do not have any confidence that they will make the right moves.
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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54254

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41 minutes ago, Capn81 said:

The FO says they intend to get three starters this off-season. I guess I am having a hard time seeing where three quality starters come from without trading assets. Unfortunately, I do not have any confidence that they will make the right moves.

I expect them to sign a FA, trade for another guy, and get another dude from the minors.  I expect all three of them to be about as effective as Dakota Hudson.

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