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Cairn Horn88

By Cairn Horn88
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HillCountryBevo
HillCountryBevo

Imagine your basis of hating Trump is because of mean tweets, January 6 and “hush money” trial all because liberal media is crooked. Fuck right off. This is my last post in this forum  dumb fucki

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

When you're a court, you just grab their asset, and they let you do it!

HillCountryBevo
HillCountryBevo

Bye bitch. Enjoy living in literal hell if your man Biden is re elected

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Goredho

Goredho 17399

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Captainant said:

31 counts of Willfull Retention of National Defense Information (18USC 793(e))
1 count of Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice (18USC 1512(k))
1 count of Withholding a Document or Record (18USC 1512(b)(2)(A), 2)
1 count of Corruptly Concealing a Document or Record (18USC 1512(c)(1), 2)
1 count of Concealing a Document in a Federal Investigation (18USC 1519, 2)
1 count of Scheme to Conceal (18USC 1001(a)(1), 2)
2 counts of False Statements and Representations (18USC 1001(a)(2), 2)

I tried to check my anti-Trump bias at the door while reading the full indictment.  It sounds like there is evidence that Trump had a careless disregard for security classifications, but there are no allegations/evidence of harm arising from that, willful or otherwise.  Where it could get damming if supported by evidence at trial is the alleged obstruction, coverup and concealment.  Counts 32 through 37, which I'll spoiler below.  If the government can show strong evidence of these charges, Trump should be fucked legally and politically.  If they can't, he's just a moron who we should have never gifted Presidential informational access to in the first place.

A few things that stand out to me in the indictment:

  • Trump appears dumber than I thought, and that's fucking saying something.
  • So much of the alleged cover up is Donald Trump conspiring with Waltine Nauta, with Trump directing and Nauta carrying out.  If the evidence of a conspiracy is 95% testimony from Trump's alleged co-conspirator with a legal motive to testify against Trump, its gonna be a he said/she said in the court of public opinion.  Pre-existing biases will govern who everyone believes.
  • Trump's lawyers sound inept at best, criminal at worst.
     
Spoiler

COUNT 32
Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice (18 U.S.C. § 1512(k)) 78. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. The Conspiracy and its Objects 79. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA, did knowingly combine, conspire, confederate, and agree with each other and with others known and unknown to the grand jury, to engage in misleading conduct toward another person and corruptly persuade another person to withhold a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(b)(2)(A), and to corruptly conceal a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(c)(1). The Purpose of the Conspiracy 80. The purpose of the conspiracy was for TRUMP to keep classified documents he had taken with him from the White House and to hide and conceal them from a federal grand jury. The Manner and Means of the Conspiracy 81. The manner and means by which the defendants sought to accomplish the objects and purpose of the conspiracy included, among other things, the following: a. Suggesting that Trump Attorney 1 falsely represent to the FBI and grand jury that TRUMP did not have documents called for by the May 11 Subpoena; b. moving boxes of documents to conceal them from Trump Attorney 1, the FBI, and the grand jury; c. suggesting that Trump Attorney 1 hide or destroy documents called for by the May 11 Subpoena; d. providing to the FBI and grand jury just some of the documents called for by the May 11 Subpoena, while TRUMP claimed he was cooperating fully; e. causing a false certification to be submitted to the FBI and grand jury representing that all documents with classification markings had been produced, when in fact they had not; and f. making false and misleading statements to the FBI. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1512(k).

COUNT 33
Withholding a Document or Record (18 U.S.C. §§ 1512(b)(2)(A), 2) 82. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 83. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA, did knowingly engage in misleading conduct toward another person, and knowingly corruptly persuade and attempt to persuade another person, with intent to cause and induce any person to withhold a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding; that is—(1) TRUMP attempted to persuade Trump Attorney 1 to hide and conceal documents from a federal grand jury; and (2) TRUMP and NAUTA misled Trump Attorney 1 by moving boxes that contained documents with classification markings so that Trump Attorney 1 would not find the documents and produce them to a federal grand jury. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1512(b)(2)(A) and 2.

COUNT 34
Corruptly Concealing a Document or Record (18 U.S.C. §§ 1512(c)(1), 2) 84. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 85. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA, did corruptly conceal a record, document, and other object, and attempted to do so, with the intent to impair the object’s integrity and availability for use in an official proceeding; that is—TRUMP and NAUTA hid and concealed boxes that contained documents with classification markings from Trump Attorney 1 so that Trump Attorney 1 would not find the documents and produce them to a federal grand jury. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1512(c)(1) and 2.

COUNT 35
Concealing a Document in a Federal Investigation (18 U.S.C. §§ 1519, 2) 86. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 87. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA, did knowingly conceal, cover up, falsify, and make a false entry in any record, document, and tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, and influence the investigation and proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of a department and agency of the United States, and in relation to and contemplation of any such matter; that is—during a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, (1) TRUMP and NAUTA hid, concealed, and covered up from the FBI TRUMP’s continued possession of documents with classification markings at The Mar-a-Lago Club; and (2) TRUMP caused a false certification to be submitted to the FBI. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1519 and 2.

COUNT 36
Scheme to Conceal (18 U.S.C. §§ 1001(a)(1), 2) 88. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 89. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA, in a matter within the jurisdiction of the judicial branch and executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully falsify, conceal, and cover up by any trick, scheme, and device a material fact; that is—during a federal grand jury investigation and a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, TRUMP and NAUTA hid and concealed from the grand jury and the FBI TRUMP’s continued possession of documents with classification markings. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1001(a)(1) and 2.

COUNT 37
False Statements and Representations (18 U.S.C. §§ 1001(a)(2), 2) 90. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 91. On or about June 3, 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendant, DONALD J. TRUMP, in a matter within the jurisdiction of the judicial branch and executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully make and cause to be made a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement and representation; that is—during a federal grand jury investigation and a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, TRUMP caused the following false statements and representations to be made to the grand jury and the FBI in a sworn certification executed by Trump Attorney 3: a. “A diligent search was conducted of the boxes that were moved from the White House to Florida”; b. “This search was conducted after receipt of the subpoena, in order to locate any and all documents that are responsive to the subpoena”; and c. “Any and all responsive documents accompany this certification.” 92. The statements and representations set forth above were false, as TRUMP knew, because TRUMP had directed that boxes be removed from the Storage Room before Trump Attorney 1 conducted the June 2, 2022 search for documents with classification markings, so that Trump Attorney 1’s search would not and did not include all of TRUMP’s boxes that were removed from the White House; Trump Attorney 1’s search would not and did not locate all 41 documents responsive to the May 11 Subpoena; and all responsive documents were not provided to the FBI and the grand jury with the certification. In fact, after June 3, 2022, more than 100 documents with classification markings remained at The Mar-a-Lago Club until the FBI search on August 8, 2022. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1001(a)(2) and 2.

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31453

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

 

I am perturbed that that aggy ruh tard appropriated a Cracker lyric for his username.

Lowery should sue.

It is probably Cracker's worst song.

A few sane ags showed up and got roasted.  What's fascinating is what a fact-free zone that is.  Hardly any of them bothered to read the indictment or have any familiarity with the facts.  Didn't know who Nauta was, etc.

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SizzleChest

SizzleChest 8283

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I am perturbed that that aggy ruh tard appropriated a Cracker lyric for his username.

Lowery should sue.

It is probably Cracker's worst song.

A few sane ags showed up and got roasted.  What's fascinating is what a fact-free zone that is.  Hardly any of them bothered to read the indictment or have any familiarity with the facts.  Didn't know who Nauta was, etc.

let-me-show-you.gif

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31453

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I tried to check my anti-Trump bias at the door while reading the full indictment.  It sounds like there is evidence that Trump had a careless disregard for security classifications, but there are no allegations/evidence of harm arising from that, willful or otherwise.  Where it could get damming if supported by evidence at trial is the alleged obstruction, coverup and concealment.  Counts 32 through 37, which I'll spoiler below.  If the government can show strong evidence of these charges, Trump should be fucked legally and politically.  If they can't, he's just a moron who we should have never gifted Presidential informational access to in the first place.

A few things that stand out to me in the indictment:

  • Trump appears dumber than I thought, and that's fucking saying something.
  • So much of the alleged cover up is Donald Trump conspiring with Waltine Nauta, with Trump directing and Nauta carrying out.  If the evidence of a conspiracy is 95% testimony from Trump's alleged co-conspirator with a legal motive to testify against Trump, its gonna be a he said/she said in the court of public opinion.  Pre-existing biases will govern who everyone believes.
  • Trump's lawyers sound inept at best, criminal at worst.
     
  Hide contents

COUNT 32
Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice (18 U.S.C. § 1512(k)) 78. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. The Conspiracy and its Objects 79. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA, did knowingly combine, conspire, confederate, and agree with each other and with others known and unknown to the grand jury, to engage in misleading conduct toward another person and corruptly persuade another person to withhold a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(b)(2)(A), and to corruptly conceal a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(c)(1). The Purpose of the Conspiracy 80. The purpose of the conspiracy was for TRUMP to keep classified documents he had taken with him from the White House and to hide and conceal them from a federal grand jury. The Manner and Means of the Conspiracy 81. The manner and means by which the defendants sought to accomplish the objects and purpose of the conspiracy included, among other things, the following: a. Suggesting that Trump Attorney 1 falsely represent to the FBI and grand jury that TRUMP did not have documents called for by the May 11 Subpoena; b. moving boxes of documents to conceal them from Trump Attorney 1, the FBI, and the grand jury; c. suggesting that Trump Attorney 1 hide or destroy documents called for by the May 11 Subpoena; d. providing to the FBI and grand jury just some of the documents called for by the May 11 Subpoena, while TRUMP claimed he was cooperating fully; e. causing a false certification to be submitted to the FBI and grand jury representing that all documents with classification markings had been produced, when in fact they had not; and f. making false and misleading statements to the FBI. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1512(k).

COUNT 33
Withholding a Document or Record (18 U.S.C. §§ 1512(b)(2)(A), 2) 82. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 83. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA, did knowingly engage in misleading conduct toward another person, and knowingly corruptly persuade and attempt to persuade another person, with intent to cause and induce any person to withhold a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding; that is—(1) TRUMP attempted to persuade Trump Attorney 1 to hide and conceal documents from a federal grand jury; and (2) TRUMP and NAUTA misled Trump Attorney 1 by moving boxes that contained documents with classification markings so that Trump Attorney 1 would not find the documents and produce them to a federal grand jury. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1512(b)(2)(A) and 2.

COUNT 34
Corruptly Concealing a Document or Record (18 U.S.C. §§ 1512(c)(1), 2) 84. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 85. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA, did corruptly conceal a record, document, and other object, and attempted to do so, with the intent to impair the object’s integrity and availability for use in an official proceeding; that is—TRUMP and NAUTA hid and concealed boxes that contained documents with classification markings from Trump Attorney 1 so that Trump Attorney 1 would not find the documents and produce them to a federal grand jury. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1512(c)(1) and 2.

COUNT 35
Concealing a Document in a Federal Investigation (18 U.S.C. §§ 1519, 2) 86. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 87. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA, did knowingly conceal, cover up, falsify, and make a false entry in any record, document, and tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, and influence the investigation and proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of a department and agency of the United States, and in relation to and contemplation of any such matter; that is—during a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, (1) TRUMP and NAUTA hid, concealed, and covered up from the FBI TRUMP’s continued possession of documents with classification markings at The Mar-a-Lago Club; and (2) TRUMP caused a false certification to be submitted to the FBI. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1519 and 2.

COUNT 36
Scheme to Conceal (18 U.S.C. §§ 1001(a)(1), 2) 88. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 89. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA, in a matter within the jurisdiction of the judicial branch and executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully falsify, conceal, and cover up by any trick, scheme, and device a material fact; that is—during a federal grand jury investigation and a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, TRUMP and NAUTA hid and concealed from the grand jury and the FBI TRUMP’s continued possession of documents with classification markings. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1001(a)(1) and 2.

COUNT 37
False Statements and Representations (18 U.S.C. §§ 1001(a)(2), 2) 90. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 91. On or about June 3, 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendant, DONALD J. TRUMP, in a matter within the jurisdiction of the judicial branch and executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully make and cause to be made a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement and representation; that is—during a federal grand jury investigation and a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, TRUMP caused the following false statements and representations to be made to the grand jury and the FBI in a sworn certification executed by Trump Attorney 3: a. “A diligent search was conducted of the boxes that were moved from the White House to Florida”; b. “This search was conducted after receipt of the subpoena, in order to locate any and all documents that are responsive to the subpoena”; and c. “Any and all responsive documents accompany this certification.” 92. The statements and representations set forth above were false, as TRUMP knew, because TRUMP had directed that boxes be removed from the Storage Room before Trump Attorney 1 conducted the June 2, 2022 search for documents with classification markings, so that Trump Attorney 1’s search would not and did not include all of TRUMP’s boxes that were removed from the White House; Trump Attorney 1’s search would not and did not locate all 41 documents responsive to the May 11 Subpoena; and all responsive documents were not provided to the FBI and the grand jury with the certification. In fact, after June 3, 2022, more than 100 documents with classification markings remained at The Mar-a-Lago Club until the FBI search on August 8, 2022. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1001(a)(2) and 2.

 

Nauta is a co-defendant.  Meaning, he need not testify at all.   Smith knows that.  He's got the evidence.  There's video.

Nauta evidently shut up right after his first batch of lies.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31453

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It either happens or it doesn’t. You can’t calculate the odds after the fact. Over/under bets are on totals. So you could set the total at 2.5 prosecutors attacked and then bet over or under that number. I’d take the under because of how aggressively the DOJ has gone after Jan. 6 insurrectionists.

I’d put the odds of some of the people on the prosecutorial side getting death threats from MAGA nutjobs at 100%. That seems to happen to everyone who Trump sees as an enemy. 

If you saw that footage of Jack Smith the other day, he was with two dudes that didn't look very lawyerly.

I'd wager they were a security detail.

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SizzleChest

SizzleChest 8283

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Ann Coulter being a Dem double agent was NOT on my bingo card

She's a horrible person, with horrible values, and a subhuman set of beliefs.  She just hates Trump.  Nothing redeeming there. She probably wants to secretly fuck him.

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25947

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

She's a horrible person, with horrible values, and a subhuman set of beliefs.  She just hates Trump.  Nothing redeeming there. She probably wants to secretly fuck him in the ass with her biggest strap-on 

FIFY

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19084

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I am perturbed that that aggy ruh tard appropriated a Cracker lyric for his username.

Lowery should sue.

It is probably Cracker's worst song.

A few sane ags showed up and got roasted.  What's fascinating is what a fact-free zone that is.  Hardly any of them bothered to read the indictment or have any familiarity with the facts.  Didn't know who Nauta was, etc.

Better hold on to your hat, then . . . .

 

Spoiler

Odds to win CFP

1,474 Views | 18 Replies | Last: 30 min ago by vander54
 
Rec
 
AG
 
Treasure Island Sports Book:

Georgia 2/1
OSU 4/1
Bama 9/2
fSU 12/1
tu 15/1
Texas A&M 30/1

Crazy to think we took lame duck Jimbo off FSUs hands for 8 figures + after a losing season, and now they are way better off than they were and than we are for half the price.
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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28777

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

If you saw that footage of Jack Smith the other day, he was with two dudes that didn't look very lawyerly.

I'd wager they were a security detail.

I assume credible death threats have already been made on him. Hell, Dr. Anthony Fauci and his wife and kids had to have 24 hr police protection because of MAGAt death threats. 

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Degenerate Gardner

Degenerate Gardner 4085

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Goredho said:

Trump being President says so much about our country.

The fact that he’s still in the mix for 2024 knowing all we do, if not the R favorite, says even more. So many witnessed the Trump presidency and thought ‘this guy is the best, a true alpha’. Any negative news is filtered through that insane bias. It’s been a helluva week, no doubt, but my god we have our work cut out for us.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31453

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Red Five said:

Would he have to? /not a lawyer

There's probably a 35% chance he's elected president again in 18 months. I think it would make sense to first take away his get out of jail free card. 

Interesting question re: does he have to admit guilt/fault.  In most plea bargains, yes you have to admit guilt and execute a statement of facts or factual resume that details the offense and guilt thereof.

There is an extraordinary thing called an Alford plea whereby the defendant is permitted to plead guilty while also claiming innocence, essentially admitting that the evidence would result in conviction.  They are very rarely accepted in federal courts, as I understand it.

Most times if a judge gets a whiff that the defendant is not actually guilty, or doesn't believe him or herself to be guilty, they will refuse to accept the plea.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25921

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

The fact that he’s still in the mix for 2024 knowing all we do, if not the R favorite, says even more. So many witnessed the Trump presidency and thought ‘this guy is the best, a true alpha’. Any negative news is filtered through that insane bias. It’s been a helluva week, no doubt, but my god we have our work cut out for us.

I mean, if the GOP stood for anything anymore outside of Trump support, I'd feel worse about it. What we're witnessing is the long, slow death of the Republican party in real-time. I suspect the Democratic party will split to make up for it, though.

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Degenerate Gardner

Degenerate Gardner 4085

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I mean, if the GOP stood for anything anymore outside of Trump support, I'd feel worse about it. What we're witnessing is the long, slow death of the Republican party in real-time. I suspect the Democratic party will split to make up for it, though.

The death of the Republican Party would be a lot more credible and heartwarming if ours wasn’t a 2 party system with entrenched gerrymandering.

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Blotto

Blotto 23498

Posted
Posted
Quote

She's a horrible person, with horrible values, and a subhuman set of beliefs.  She just hates Trump.  Nothing redeeming there. She probably wants to secretly fuck him in the ass with her biggest strap-on 

giphy.gif

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Cairn Horn88

Cairn Horn88 8262

Posted
  • Author
Posted
5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I doubt there are credible legal arguments as to why Trump isn't completely fucked here. 

I am still convinced there is a good chance the guy skates, or at least manages to drag this out long enough to die of natural causes before anything substantial happens.

He has that same dumbass judge who got slapped around by the Appeals Court….I doubt if she’ll recuse herself, so she may help Trump by slowing the trial down and not allowing certain evidence to be introduced, which would be appealed, and thus slowing down the trial, to perhaps past the election….this game ain’t over.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89656

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

He has that same dumbass judge who got slapped around by the Appeals Court….I doubt if she’ll recuse herself, so she may help Trump by slowing the trial down and not allowing certain evidence to be introduced, which would be appealed, and thus slowing down the trial, to perhaps past the election….this game ain’t over.

If she doesn't shut the whole thing down quickly, she's liable to get death threats from MAGA. And I mean shut it down, not slow roll it.  We are talking about people that think DeSantis is on Soros's payroll. 

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25921

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Stupid.  Fucking. Cunt.

Yes. And these are the only people left who will work for DJT: Complete idiots.

I mean, you see him refuse to work with and refuse to pay all these different attorneys, and the quality of who is left gets worse and worse, so any new hire is gotta be like...

3gwdow.png

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