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[C-Man 27218]

[Biff Tannen 45676]

1 hour ago, Red Five said:

The guy spent a year Colonel Jessuping to us about how yes he stole those documents and no you can't have them back and now OMG they're pressing charges??? 

Now if he could just Warden Norton himself

[Guest]

I'd be interested in a poll on here on if people believe the former president will or will not see jail time for any of his alleged crimes.

I personally still don't see it happening. Don't know how, don't know why, but it just seems like there will still be some out that saves him. 

[bolverk 29671]

2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I'd be interested in a poll on here on if people believe the former president will or will not see jail time for any of his alleged crimes.

I personally still don't see it happening. Don't know how, don't know why, but it just seems like there will still be some out that saves him. 

Start a thread with the a poll.

[Post Oak 20210]

5 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I'd be interested in a poll on here on if people believe the former president will or will not see jail time for any of his alleged crimes.

I personally still don't see it happening. Don't know how, don't know why, but it just seems like there will still be some out that saves him. 

I hope the stress causes him to stroke out and die in a pool of piss and shit that someone takes a pic of.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Start a thread with the a poll.

Just tried. Shit is borked or user is borked.

[tx 3 putt 76911]

7 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I'd be interested in a poll on here on if people believe the former president will or will not see jail time for any of his alleged crimes.

I personally still don't see it happening. Don't know how, don't know why, but it just seems like there will still be some out that saves him. 

['stache 21805]

42 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I'd be interested in a poll on here on if people believe the former president will or will not see jail time for any of his alleged crimes.

I personally still don't see it happening. Don't know how, don't know why, but it just seems like there will still be some out that saves him. 

I think he'll be convicted but there will be a reason he doesn't actually go to a penitentiary, probably something to do with the fact that he's still an ex-president.  

[Poe It Up 126]

43 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I'd be interested in a poll on here on if people believe the former president will or will not see jail time for any of his alleged crimes.

I personally still don't see it happening. Don't know how, don't know why, but it just seems like there will still be some out that saves him. 

No. But he’s going to get his ass thoroughly kicked in ‘24, which is really going to sting. 

[GreenspointTexas 9600]

Lets say he actually does up and kill himself…. How many people gonna bend over backwards to try and claim he was murdered/targeted?

[jimmyjazz 45903]

[Biff Tannen 45676]

1 hour ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lets say he actually does up and kill himself…. How many people gonna bend over backwards to try and claim he was murdered/targeted?

don't care

['stache 21805]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, half of everyone, half of us are still sane.

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

*THEIR

It's so hard to find good help these days. 

[TwiceHorn 31452]

59 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I'd be interested in a poll on here on if people believe the former president will or will not see jail time for any of his alleged crimes.

I personally still don't see it happening. Don't know how, don't know why, but it just seems like there will still be some out that saves him. 

There are several ways by which he could avoid conviction, none of them very likely except the possibility of a hung jury.

He could conceivably delay any conviction until he may be re-elected, in which case he could kibosh the prosecution, and possibly subject himself to a third impeachment in the process.

Once convicted, it would be fairly extraordinary for him to avoid jail time.  There's almost no non-jail probation in the federal system for felonies and there are legions of people who were sentenced to years in prison for similar acts.  Petraeus is the only one I can think of that avoided a carceral sentence, and he took a plea to a misdemeanor.

[TornACL 7698]

5 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lets say he actually does up and kill himself…. How many people gonna bend over backwards to try and claim he was murdered/targeted?

He'd never do that. Instead he'd fake his own death and then go into hiding to watch all the news coverage of his death, funeral, etc.

On the exact same date of his "death" a new account would be created on his stupid ass social media platform which would constantly post aggrieved commentary about which people aren't showering Trump with enough adulation.

The ruse would quickly be uncovered, and he'd spend two years posting that Trump's really dead.

[YGIFS 19450]

He'll never kill himself.  He may let himself "go", but never an active suicide.  About 25 million, roughly 1/3rd of his active supporters (GOP jokes aside, 50 million of 'em are just voting pocket book and straight ticket pulls).  They're the tricky part as we've discussed.  Many of them will refuse to believe he's dead, but rather he is running our government in exile.  Which, by the way, is going to be a fantastic grifting opportunity "Click here to donate to help support Donald J. Trump's efforts to improve America as he lives and works on the isle of San Lorenzo."  Another portion are going to believe that he was assassinated by the Deep State.  Still another portion will believe that he was killed by the Democrats, the Clintons, George Soros, Hunter Biden's laptop, and a Mister Ronan Sinatra.  And a smaller portion will simply lose their wiring.  His death will literally trigger a chemical imbalance in their brain and they will lash out on anyone around them.  Murder Suicides, mass shootings, and domestic terrorism will reach peak highs.   

I'd like to say one of my usual longcat rants about how I'll help take care of this underbelly of America.  But when he does die, I'm gonna be too busy snorting fireworks, temporarily moving into a strip club, and drinking heroin.  

[The Dog 44020]

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

10 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

What’s the bombshell here? I don’t read that to mean they found more tapes. They list the already known one along with recorded testimony/public statements?

[scottsins 1966]

What’s the bombshell here? I don’t read that to mean they found more tapes. They list the already known one along with recorded testimony/public statements?

“Interviews…including (the known one).”

That has to mean that there are recordings of other interviews, the way I read it.

[Js1 85313]

1 minute ago, scottsins said:

“Interviews…including (the known one).”

That has to mean that there are recordings of other interviews, the way I read it.

So like the unknown known tapes? 

Donald Rumsfeld is vindicated! 

[Pig Bellmont 8715]

17 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

Oh good- we’re at the stage where reporters guess about the contents of evidence. :eyeroll:

Look - I want him held accountable probably more than most but I find this type of speculation unhelpful 

[YGIFS 19450]

So Meadows physically oversaw the removal of certain documents before transition of power.  Ghost writers kinda suspected this, see Trump waving them around.  Somebody slips up and kinda hints to Meadows that Trump still has them.  Meadows knows he's in deep shit.  And is now cutting a deal.  

[TwiceHorn 31452]

16 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

So Meadows physically oversaw the removal of certain documents before transition of power.  Ghost writers kinda suspected this, see Trump waving them around.  Somebody slips up and kinda hints to Meadows that Trump still has them.  Meadows knows he's in deep shit.  And is now cutting a deal.  

Although it's not 100% relevant to the crimes charged, yeah, I suspect Meadows may provide some background on the "beautiful mind boxes" and Trump's attitude toward them generally, and how they got packed and to Mar A Lago.

In addition to meeting the burden of proof as to the elements of the crime, both sides want to try to tell a coherent story, and one that supports guilt or innocence, technically. Showing that Trump was a very deliberate psycho about his boxes and eliminating any inference that this stuff was just packed up haphazardly and then ignored is probably an important part of the case from that storytelling perspective.

As to the other tapes, they may not be incriminating.  Clearly, Smith and his team really beat the bushes for evidence of intent.  They probably came up dry on much of it, so a lot of this may be just stuff they went through that may not even be strictly relevant.

Edited June 22, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

What happens when this eventually gets appealed to the supreme court?

Pay for a few vacations and he's all good?

[YGIFS 19450]

4 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

What happens when this eventually gets appealed to the supreme court?

Pay for a few vacations and he's all good?

He's got it made in the shade with SCOTUS.  My question mark, and keep in mind I went to a very mid-level law school, is what the 11th Circuit will do with this.  It's actually not that pro-Trump.  It's centre-right, but not overly so as opposed to 10, 5, or 4.  They'll obviously hear an appeal eventually.  But as I've bloviated prior---this will all come down to calendars.  How expeditiously can the 11th hear the appeal?  How long is the federal district case gonna take to play out in the first place?  How do, even with our plane, make grifting fundraisers, debate, campaign in primary states, face court dates in NYC and the District of Columbia and Miami and possibly Atlanta all in a very compressed 18 month period of time.  The long game may be to corner the rat and overwhelm it with intimidation and no way out and then watch it do something truly fucking insane.  As if we're not there already.  The simulation, it would appear, is not without a DayPlanner and a sense of humor.  

[wildcat09 29349]

1 hour ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lets say he actually does up and kill himself…. How many people gonna bend over backwards to try and claim he was murdered/targeted?

If it does, we'll need to be out in front of the conspiracy theories. If we're lucky, we could convince half his followers that it was the other half that killed him.

[Brisketexan 105098]

57 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

 

18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Although it's not 100% relevant to the crimes charged, yeah, I suspect Meadows may provide some background on the "beautiful mind boxes" and Trump's attitude toward them generally, and how they got packed and to Mar A Lago.

In addition to meeting the burden of proof as to the elements of the crime, both sides want to try to tell a coherent story, and one that supports guilt or innocence, technically. Showing that Trump was a very deliberate psycho about his boxes and eliminating any inference that this stuff was just packed up haphazardly and then ignored is probably an important part of the case from that storytelling perspective.

As to the other tapes, they may not be incriminating.  Clearly, Smith and his team really beat the bushes for evidence of intent.  They probably came up dry on much of it, so a lot of this may be just stuff they went through that may not even be strictly relevant.

I am far from an expert, as I've defended exactly ONE criminal defendant in federal court (my number came up in the "appoint a member of the bar to represent someone" lottery.  I was paranoid as hell, and overworked the hell out of the case and reviewing the evidence).  From my limited experience:

1) the evidence listed in the charging instrument is super-detailed, accurate, and is sufficient to lay out a solid basis for conviction.

2) the DOJ often has WAY more evidence than just what's listed in the charging instrument.  Some of it is innocuous (or may be, in a vacuum), some of it is additionally quite incriminating.  And even the innocuous stuff, if you listen to ALL of the recordings together, clearly fit a pattern consistent with the scheme the defendant is charged with (e.g., maybe they don't mention a specific drug sale, but they mention all kinds of stuff peripheral to a drug sale, which makes sense when you listen to the recordings from the day before and the day after, talking about specific drug sales).

In my case, I listened to three tapes, about 90 minutes of recordings.  You could try to brush off the first tape.  Then the second tape....made it pretty hard to brush off.  By the third tape....yeah, stone-cold busted.  And the fun part?  Those were three tapes....out of probably 100 tapes.  Seriously, the feds handed me two boxes of recordings.  I didn't need to listen to all of them.

Is this going to be the case with Trump?  Shit if I know.  But I suspect that at least that PATTERN will ring true here.  Especially because of who the defendant is (to ring the TwiceHorn bell, you typically only file charges with stakes this high, against a defendant this high profile, if you've REALLY dotted the i's and crossed the t's).

But.....will he get off?  You have to think so.  Not for any logical or rational reason.  Just because of this timeline, and where we are at this moment in history.

[dcbc 14472]

30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

I am far from an expert, as I've defended exactly ONE criminal defendant in federal court (my number came up in the "appoint a member of the bar to represent someone" lottery.  I was paranoid as hell, and overworked the hell out of the case and reviewing the evidence).  From my limited experience:

1) the evidence listed in the charging instrument is super-detailed, accurate, and is sufficient to lay out a solid basis for conviction.

2) the DOJ often has WAY more evidence than just what's listed in the charging instrument.  Some of it is innocuous (or may be, in a vacuum), some of it is additionally quite incriminating.  And even the innocuous stuff, if you listen to ALL of the recordings together, clearly fit a pattern consistent with the scheme the defendant is charged with (e.g., maybe they don't mention a specific drug sale, but they mention all kinds of stuff peripheral to a drug sale, which makes sense when you listen to the recordings from the day before and the day after, talking about specific drug sales).

In my case, I listened to three tapes, about 90 minutes of recordings.  You could try to brush off the first tape.  Then the second tape....made it pretty hard to brush off.  By the third tape....yeah, stone-cold busted.  And the fun part?  Those were three tapes....out of probably 100 tapes.  Seriously, the feds handed me two boxes of recordings.  I didn't need to listen to all of them.

Is this going to be the case with Trump?  Shit if I know.  But I suspect that at least that PATTERN will ring true here.  Especially because of who the defendant is (to ring the TwiceHorn bell, you typically only file charges with stakes this high, against a defendant this high profile, if you've REALLY dotted the i's and crossed the t's).

But.....will he get off?  You have to think so.  Not for any logical or rational reason.  Just because of this timeline, and where we are at this moment in history.

I agree with everything except the last line of the post, which despite its expressed lack of logic, still is logical.  But I'm clinging to near-sighted optimism.  Assuming the Feds have a lot more aces in their hand than they're showing, a jury will be hard-pressed to disagree.  And I bet you hope I'm right. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by dcbc

[Bama Chick 28596]

Lets say he actually does up and kill himself…. How many people gonna bend over backwards to try and claim he was murdered/targeted?

I mean, his cult still thinks JFK Junior is alive and coming to their rescue so…..all of them?

[YGIFS 19450]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

I am far from an expert, as I've defended exactly ONE criminal defendant in federal court (my number came up in the "appoint a member of the bar to represent someone" lottery.  I was paranoid as hell, and overworked the hell out of the case and reviewing the evidence).  From my limited experience:

1) the evidence listed in the charging instrument is super-detailed, accurate, and is sufficient to lay out a solid basis for conviction.

2) the DOJ often has WAY more evidence than just what's listed in the charging instrument.  Some of it is innocuous (or may be, in a vacuum), some of it is additionally quite incriminating.  And even the innocuous stuff, if you listen to ALL of the recordings together, clearly fit a pattern consistent with the scheme the defendant is charged with (e.g., maybe they don't mention a specific drug sale, but they mention all kinds of stuff peripheral to a drug sale, which makes sense when you listen to the recordings from the day before and the day after, talking about specific drug sales).

In my case, I listened to three tapes, about 90 minutes of recordings.  You could try to brush off the first tape.  Then the second tape....made it pretty hard to brush off.  By the third tape....yeah, stone-cold busted.  And the fun part?  Those were three tapes....out of probably 100 tapes.  Seriously, the feds handed me two boxes of recordings.  I didn't need to listen to all of them.

Is this going to be the case with Trump?  Shit if I know.  But I suspect that at least that PATTERN will ring true here.  Especially because of who the defendant is (to ring the TwiceHorn bell, you typically only file charges with stakes this high, against a defendant this high profile, if you've REALLY dotted the i's and crossed the t's).

But.....will he get off?  You have to think so.  Not for any logical or rational reason.  Just because of this timeline, and where we are at this moment in history.

Great points, all.  ^

I've forgotten all this shit.  But yeah, the DoJ doesn't have to literally write out every single bit of evidence they've accumulated in the charging instrument.  But eventually they have to reveal it all before trial.  And between that and the usual Trump delay tactics, and District Courts can move quite swiftly when they want to...but this is a curious schedule concern to me.  Smith and the DoJ want to tease shit out to Trump's team to see what happens (all on the up and up of course).  But at some point in the very near future, we are dealing in completely uncharted waters.  I get the Pattern Game, but eventually-and rather soon-the "Political Witchhunt" will actually start to ring true with more moderate Republican voters.  I get the play, and of course the prosecution has to show all its cards with ample time for the defense to prepare.  But you can't pull that cord too late.  

Calendars, man.  These beautiful calendars.  /mattdamon

[GenXer 2859]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

 

This is so good.  Pulitzer should create a new category for art installations. That, or stretch another category’s definition to include art installations.

 

[Pancho 44759]

2 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Lets say he actually does up and kill himself…. How many people gonna bend over backwards to try and claim he was murdered/targeted?

Kill himself? This man is a fucking pussy. He doesn’t have the balls to kill himself. He would float about being the best suicide in our nations history and then when it came time to do it, he would chicken the fuck out and blame the Dems for why he didn’t kill himself.

[atomheartbevo 89656]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Although it's not 100% relevant to the crimes charged, yeah, I suspect Meadows may provide some background on the "beautiful mind boxes" and Trump's attitude toward them generally, and how they got packed and to Mar A Lago.

We just need Brett Baier and others get Trump on Fox News a few more times, because Fox News has done an outstanding job of showing us Trump's attitude towards them.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

24 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

We just need Brett Baier and others get Trump on Fox News a few more times, because Fox News has done an outstanding job of showing us Trump's attitude towards them.

Or just get Brett Baier to move to CNN, they'll gladly have Trump on again 

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

In the event of trump’s death, we need to be prepared for 3 significantly sized groups of Maga:  the ones that think he was murdered by the deep state, the ones that think he is still alive, and the smallest group is the ones that understand an old man died. 
 

how will they interact with one another?

[The Dog 44020]

 

[Brisketexan 105098]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

 

Trump on the stand, under oath, subject to cross-examination by the DOJ.....might be the greatest thing I've ever seen.

And I've looked at LOTS of pictures of tits on the internet, so I don't say that lightly.

[Gil Bang 25945]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Trump on the stand, under oath, subject to cross-examination by the DOJ.....might be the greatest thing I've ever seen.

And I've looked at LOTS of pictures of tits on the internet, so I don't say that lightly.

oh fuck...I'd pay to watch that.

[TwiceHorn 31452]

3 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

Some of the replies are pretty golden, Jerry.

[TwiceHorn 31452]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Trump on the stand, under oath, subject to cross-examination by the DOJ.....might be the greatest thing I've ever seen.

And I've looked at LOTS of pictures of tits on the internet, so I don't say that lightly.

Strategerical question for trial lawyers.  Do you dare object as non-responsive, or just let the word salad grow?

[scottsins 1966]

Strategerical question for trial lawyers.  Do you dare object as non-responsive, or just let the word salad grow?

It depends on whether he has actually responded to the question or not. If he has, yeah, let him rip.

[CowboyFred 1151]

3 minutes ago, scottsins said:

It depends on whether he has actually responded to the question or not. If he has, yeah, let him rip.

One of the best pieces of advice I got from a mentor was to just shut the fuck up. People hate silence and fill that silence with words. I’ll ask a question, they’ll answer, and then I may sit for 20-30 seconds and they’ll start with a “well actually…” 

[RomaVicta 29906]

23 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

He knows more than those lawyer hacks.

 

Stand back or I'll shoot the 45th President!

[The Dog 44020]

 

[YGIFS 19450]

38 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

In the event of trump’s death, we need to be prepared for 3 significantly sized groups of Maga:  the ones that think he was murdered by the deep state, the ones that think he is still alive, and the smallest group is the ones that understand an old man died. 
 

how will they interact with one another?

Be a damn shame if there was an AI bot being developed that can deploy millions of messages on MAGA/Qanon message boards, in the days after Trump's inevitable death.  The purpose of which will be to notify them that Trump was killed by either Ron DeSantis, the RNC, and/or (insert other frontrunner name here).  And that rallies opposed to this awful assassination will be held at these locations in these cities on these dates.  And that everybody should come packing but be on the look out for deep state/DeSantis/Others dressed as Trump supporters/mourners.  I mean it won't be Covid-type numbers, but a few hundred could easily murder one another nationwide before anybody got wise.  I may watch for a nearby rooftop with a cooler, could be fun.

38 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

It's like they're agreeing to "Let's just kinda orbit the earth over and over again with stall tactics and motions and just keep this thing hovering in the ether for years.  OR?  And hear me out...we could plot a course immediately and directly for the Sun."  

[RDCanecutter 26413]

Nah. None o this.

What's gonna happen is that Bay of Pigs survivors living inside mechanical spider bodies are gonna swarm through the drop-ceiling of the courthouse, drop down in an elderly Cuban mechanical-spider chain, snatch Trump up and then spirit him away through vestigial canals that predate Ponce de Leon.

When next seen, Trump will be throwing out his jaw Mussolini-like from the balcony of Cinderella's Castle in Disneyworld, with spider-Cubans lurking on the towers and battlements. On signal, hundreds of gym-burly Proud Boy Second String will reveal themselves among the tourists, rush to form a perimeter around Trump, while assembling plastic ghost-guns they had pre-placed disassembled among the shrubbery.

In the inevitable mayhem that follows, the Florida National Guard closes in on the park, led by DeSantis, who strikes a Crossing-the-Delaware pose in the jungle cruise but slips off the railing and is dragged beneath the ride. The mechanical spider-body Cubans call in air support that fails to make a difference and are picked off one by one. The Proud Boys fall back inside the castle and hack loopholes in the walls to shoot out of. Unfortunately the plywood and stucco construction combines with the muzzle flash of hip-held automatic weapons, and within a Scaramucci of seconds the building combusts like a roaring Roman candle.

At least, that's what they want you to think caused the fire. Only Trump, among the chaos, looked up with his keen gaze, and spotted the laser-like flash of an object thousands of miles overhead. "Et tu, Ivanka..." he muttered as the floor fell away.

[YGIFS 19450]

I would buy that entire comic book series.  

[Rimbo 25921]

17 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Nah. None o this.

What's gonna happen is that Bay of Pigs survivors living inside mechanical spider bodies are gonna swarm through the drop-ceiling of the courthouse, drop down in an elderly Cuban mechanical-spider chain, snatch Trump up and then spirit him away through vestigial canals that predate Ponce de Leon.

When next seen, Trump will be throwing out his jaw Mussolini-like from the balcony of Cinderella's Castle in Disneyworld, with spider-Cubans lurking on the towers and battlements. On signal, hundreds of gym-burly Proud Boy Second String will reveal themselves among the tourists, rush to form a perimeter around Trump, while assembling plastic ghost-guns they had pre-placed disassembled among the shrubbery.

In the inevitable mayhem that follows, the Florida National Guard closes in on the park, led by DeSantis, who strikes a Crossing-the-Delaware pose in the jungle cruise but slips off the railing and is dragged beneath the ride. The mechanical spider-body Cubans call in air support that fails to make a difference and are picked off one by one. The Proud Boys fall back inside the castle and hack loopholes in the walls to shoot out of. Unfortunately the plywood and stucco construction combines with the muzzle flash of hip-held automatic weapons, and within a Scaramucci of seconds the building combusts like a roaring Roman candle.

At least, that's what they want you to think caused the fire. Only Trump, among the chaos, looked up with his keen gaze, and spotted the laser-like flash of an object thousands of miles overhead. "Et tu, Ivanka..." he muttered as the floor fell away.

Oh, that's just what the spies working from a hidden base on the moon of Europa want you to believe.

 

[texas08 1599]

When does the fat bastard try to flee the country?

Flightaware his jet now.