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Cairn Horn88

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G650

G650 14277

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Right, and the vast majority of those people in the large enterprise leave their jobs at work.  Just a handful of people at the top are stressballs.

Every lawyer, pretty much, from the Chairman of Skadden down to the first-year associate at Buttweed Law Group, first wants to do right by their client.  Then they're being judged, or even actively undermined, in that endeavor by a) their client, b) their bosses and a combination of c) a judge, d) an opposing lawyer and e) some opposing institution or administrative body.

But, I think the main reason lawdogs have problems with mental health is that the profession attracts people with an idealistic streak, if not outright idealists.  Then they get into it and find that it's often tedious, mindless work, and hideously long hours, but with high stakes, fraught with delay, and few opportunities to achieve any meaningful ideals.  They often have perfectionist and mild (or severe) OCD traits.

 

Dude shut the fuck up. I generally like you but this is over important horseshit. You know zero about what my guys think and how much they care.

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Imagine your basis of hating Trump is because of mean tweets, January 6 and “hush money” trial all because liberal media is crooked. Fuck right off. This is my last post in this forum  dumb fucki

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Bye bitch. Enjoy living in literal hell if your man Biden is re elected

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54428

Posted
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9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Right, and the vast majority of those people in the large enterprise leave their jobs at work.  Just a handful of people at the top are stressballs.

Every lawyer, pretty much, from the Chairman of Skadden down to the first-year associate at Buttweed Law Group, first wants to do right by their client.  Then they're being judged, or even actively undermined, in that endeavor by a) their client, b) their bosses and a combination of c) a judge, d) an opposing lawyer and e) some opposing institution or administrative body.

But, I think the main reason lawdogs have problems with mental health is that the profession attracts people with an idealistic streak, if not outright idealists.  Then they get into it and find that it's often tedious, mindless work, and hideously long hours, but with high stakes, fraught with delay, and few opportunities to achieve any meaningful ideals.  They often have perfectionist and mild (or severe) OCD traits.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31536

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27 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I can tell you that according to the California consumer code, which governs CPAs licensed in the state of California, she absolutely would have had her license stripped.  Incompetance and lack of due care is a reason for a CPA to be stripped of their license.  It is pretty obvious she did not practice due care at all.

Signed, a CPA in the state of CA.

Fine.  I can cite to you a lot of things in the Texas Code of Professional Responsibility that she violated, including all the things the Bar brought against her.

Proving it, and overcoming any First Amendment defenses, is a non-trivial endeavor and even CPAs have those rights.

Just blurting out that someone violated the ethics code without considering elements of proof of that and possible defenses is akin to saying Trump admitted his crime to Lester Holt.  It is, ultimately, uninformed speculation.

Show me where a CPA has actually had their license revoked over something like this.

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19452

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Is this one of those pissing contests where we all brag about how stressed out we are 24/7 due to work and who puts in more hours and bleeds for their clients/customers?  Because I used to be very guilty of that.  Then I was inspired by three things to stop doing that---looked over at Trump and thought, "For such a piece of shit with no redeeming business qualities...he seems pretty content and confident all the time.  Probably just a ruse but at his age, weight, and incompetence...he seems jovial and almost healthy."  Second was change my health habits so I didn't rely on running myself into the ground physically and mentally every week.  Third was to replace the rush of deal chasing and alcohol with a much more potent drug.  And once again, partially inspired by Trump.  I'm almost at the point where I don't want him punished for the good of the Republic.  I kinda just wanna see what he's capable of getting his shit people to do next (hopefully to one another).  It took the near fall of our nation to make me realize  my prize mistake, what you can make stupid people in large groups do to one another and themselves.  What happens next will be nothing short of amazing.

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30313

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I mean, there; very few of those people. Try being in charge of a large enterprise, it's 24/7 anxiety.
My comment about this was not to say that nobody else but lawyers cares about their job.  I’ve been a brick layer’s assistant, a union laborer, a security guard, a UPS driver, worked at one of those 1970s stores were your walk around Iooking at the products and the one you picked came out on the conveyer belt (theoretically to get it cheaper), a cashier at a liquor store, walked down serial and model numbers of components at a nuclear power plant and put the info in a failure trend analysis database, and was a handyman at a jungle gardens place in Florida.
At every single one of those jobs, when the whistle blew or the time clock said it was quitting time, I put everything about that job aside and went on with my life until the next morning. Not one single day of my life as an attorney was like that. That’s all I was saying.  
 
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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45737

Posted
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1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

Is this one of those pissing contests where we all brag about how stressed out we are 24/7 due to work and who puts in more hours and bleeds for their clients/customers? 

And yet they do this with a straight face while posting on Surly all day.  

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G650

G650 14277

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7 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

My comment about this was not to say that nobody else but lawyers cares about their job.  I’ve been a brick layer’s assistant, a union laborer, a security guard, a UPS driver, worked at one of those 1970s stores were your walk around Iooking at the products and the one you picked came out on the conveyer belt (theoretically to get it cheaper), a cashier at a liquor store, walked down serial and model numbers of components at a nuclear power plant and put the info in a failure trend analysis database, and was a handyman at a jungle gardens place in Florida.
At every single one of those jobs, when the whistle blew or the time clock said it was quitting time, I put everything about that job aside and went on with my life until the next morning. Not one single day of my life as an attorney was like that. That’s all I was saying.  
 

As I said, there's very few of those people. The vast majority of people carry their work home to various degrees, so it's an nonsensical point to make.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31536

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9 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

My comment about this was not to say that nobody else but lawyers cares about their job.  I’ve been a brick layer’s assistant, a union laborer, a security guard, a UPS driver, worked at one of those 1970s stores were your walk around Iooking at the products and the one you picked came out on the conveyer belt (theoretically to get it cheaper), a cashier at a liquor store, walked down serial and model numbers of components at a nuclear power plant and put the info in a failure trend analysis database, and was a handyman at a jungle gardens place in Florida.
At every single one of those jobs, when the whistle blew or the time clock said it was quitting time, I put everything about that job aside and went on with my life until the next morning. Not one single day of my life as an attorney was like that. That’s all I was saying.  
 

Yeah, one of the hallmarks of threads like this is a pretty profound ignorance of how the legal system works "on the ground." And in this case instead of just one murder or whatever, we're talking about a multitude of different cases on different subject matters.

Comparison of job stresses is pretty "invidious" most of the time.

But one of the more amazing ignorant assertions on this or a related thread is that the justice system is slow because lawyers are lazy.  Sure, some are, like everything, but most aren't and that's not the reason things are slow as has been discussed.

As a lawdog in recovery myself, and having done a fair amount of work relating to the intersection of the practice of law and addiction and mental health issues, I have examined quite a bit of stuff attempting to explain why the rate of addiction and serious mental health issues is roughly double in the legal profession compared to society at large.

One of those reasons is that in many cases law is a uniquely stressful job.  One of the others is that it tends to attract people with "vulnerable" personality traits and then proceeds to "prey" on those traits occupationally.  It's a match made in hell for a lot of people.

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19452

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^

Yeah, I'm not sure how to capture it...but there are people who 'carry their work home with them' and think about it at nights and weekends and holidays.  Mostly white collar.  There are people who have to literally immerse themselves in work-thought on nights and weekends and holidays because they are at a second job or doing a side gig or side hustle from home or the coffee shop.  Then there are the third kind like Gatorubet discussed.  Clerks, drivers, laborers, et. al.  Do they mentally bring home the next day's agenda with them to think over and improve upon?  Usually, no.  But do they spend several hours at night and weekends and holidays worried mentally about work, money, paying bills, making ends meet, advancing in the job, changing jobs, what the future holds?  Absolutely.  And is that even more taxing on the mind than worrying about a client's case or contract or tortious interference?  Likely more so.   

We've been worrying about the next day of labor since the first day the first homosapien  came back to the cave empty-handed.  Or with a limb missing.  I don't find glory in it anymore like I used to.  

Liquor store clerk or lawyer.  Everybody worries about coworkers and bosses and money at night, but it's the price we pay for not having to kill each other for food.  That's what Trump tapped into, to take thisback to the thread theme.  What if I convinced you that the reason you worried at night about money and security whether you were a driver or an accountant was not because of anything inside you, but because of what people you don't know from other countries and parties and companies were conspiring to do against you.   The stress ball you feel in the shower was something done to you and that I could take it away if you'd give up just a few self-serving notions or instincts.  

If that dumbass can convince them of that (and he did), then surely we can convince them to take their own lives.  Fucking Jim Jones could do it.  Surely the Donald can, too. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31536

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15 minutes ago, The Dog said:

image.thumb.png.b275ce48bb1fba10cc768598ad570656.png

That one right there may be the closest thing to witness tampering I've seen from his posts.  It's specific as to a person and their testimonial activity, etc.,, specifically says he shouldn't testify, and contains at least veiled threats of banishment from MAGAworld.  The only hitch is that he already seems to have been banished from MAGAworld.

One of the more bizarre aspects of all of this is that Trump can threaten a witness politically, whereas your normal defendant has to threaten/cajole with violence or money.  

At first blush, political threats may look like they aren't even threats at all, compared to violence or money, but I think at some point you have to acknowledge that that is very real.

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Goredho

Goredho 17419

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5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

At first blush, political threats may look like they aren't even threats at all, compared to violence or money, but I think at some point you have to acknowledge that that is very real.

I don't think you can divorce politics from either money or violence at this point.  Certainly not Trump's brand of politics.

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27588

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12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That one right there may be the closest thing to witness tampering I've seen from his posts.  It's specific as to a person and their testimonial activity, etc.,, specifically says he shouldn't testify, and contains at least veiled threats of banishment from MAGAworld.  The only hitch is that he already seems to have been banished from MAGAworld.

One of the more bizarre aspects of all of this is that Trump can threaten a witness politically, whereas your normal defendant has to threaten/cajole with violence or money.  

At first blush, political threats may look like they aren't even threats at all, compared to violence or money, but I think at some point you have to acknowledge that that is very real.

I don’t see how you can call those only political threats given the number of death threats to people Trump has criticized online.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31536

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6 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I don't think you can divorce politics from either money or violence at this point.  Certainly not Trump's brand of politics.

 

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

I don’t see how you can call those only political threats given the number of death threats to people Trump has criticized online.

Well, in your usual tampering case, the threat of violence, death, or money given or taken away is right there in the tampering.

Here, it's just below the surface.  But it's there alright.

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30313

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11 minutes ago, G650 said:

As I said, there's very few of those people. The vast majority of people carry their work home to various degrees, so it's an nonsensical point to make.

Since neither of us can pull up any stats to substantiate our two positions, let’s just agree to disagree.  

But you asserting that the stress of missing a deadline that can cost your client the only shot at surgery and not losing their home - or having to spend a life in prison - is the same worry as a McDonald’s employee going home and worrying, “Did I put the small or the large fry in that combo meal bag yesterday…I won’t be sleeping tonight” is ridiculous. 

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G650

G650 14277

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6 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Since neither of us can pull up any stats to substantiate our two positions, let’s just agree to disagree.  

But you asserting that the stress of missing a deadline that can cost your client the only shot at surgery and not losing their home - or having to spend a life in prison - is the same worry as a McDonald’s employee going home and worrying, “Did I put the small or the large fry in that combo meal bag yesterday…I won’t be sleeping tonight” is ridiculous.

 

I'm fine to agree to disagree, no worries. I'm clearly not talking the McDonalds fry cook though, this whole time I'm in fact pointing out, poorly obviously, those guys and gals and many other menial laborers aren't the norm. If you want to equate them with lawyerdom, you need to look at the guy who has to trudge down the the old courthouse, small town or other wise, and get junior's latest speeding ticket reduced. I do know many lawyers, some are who are good friends, many in a professional capacity, and know they run the gamut from guys who have zero cares in the world, vs super high stress high consequence work. You know, like every other sector, which is my point.

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G650

G650 14277

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1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

As a lawyer who in the past has both worked on a landscaping crew and waited tables, I can say being a lawyer is absolutely the easiest. Of course, I'm not a litigator. 

 

I actually completely forgot my SIL is a lawyer for the state in Florida, she reviews contracts I believe. My wife and I are constantly baffled at the lack of accountability her job entails. She regularly just doesn't go in because she "just can't do it today mentally". It's like a parallel universe.

She is an awesome person and I love her so don't want to make out anything otherwise, but her job is unequivocally less stressful than a guy who runs a shovel for me.

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Horn Under a Bad Sign

Horn Under a Bad Sign 20493

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2 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

I actually completely forgot my SIL is a lawyer for the state in Florida, she reviews contracts I believe. My wife and I are constantly baffled at the lack of accountability her job entails. She regularly just doesn't go in because she "just can't do it today mentally". It's like a parallel universe.

She is an awesome person and I love her so don't want to make out anything otherwise, but her job is unequivocally less stressful than a guy who runs a shovel for me.


Pics of SIL? 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31536

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Pancho said:

Have you met this website?

surlyhorns.com, where threadjacking is an art form.

Sometimes, though, ya gotta admit, the off-topic turns threads take are some of the best shit on this site.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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bolverk

bolverk 29717

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Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

surlyhorns.com, where threadjacking is an art form.

Sometimes, though, ya gotta admit, the off-topic turns threads take are some of the best shit on this site.

Not in this case.

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 48170

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7 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

I actually completely forgot my SIL is a lawyer for the state in Florida, she reviews contracts I believe. My wife and I are constantly baffled at the lack of accountability her job entails. She regularly just doesn't go in because she "just can't do it today mentally". It's like a parallel universe.

She is an awesome person and I love her so don't want to make out anything otherwise, but her job is unequivocally less stressful than a guy who runs a shovel for me.

That doesn’t sound like a lawyer criticism. It sounds like a Government Job criticism. 

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Red Five

Red Five 40895

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Posted (edited)

"I need for you to find me the exact number of votes I lost by, and give them to me, so that I can win your state. And if you don't, you're gonna be in a lot of trouble! And if anyone asks why, just say you miscounted."

What's not perfect about that. 

Edited by Red Five
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31536

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38 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Not in this case.

 

38 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Most definitely not in this case.

One thing is, this thread is too all-encompassing.  Seems to me we ought to have a Mar-A-Lago thread, a Manhattan thread, a DC 1/6 thread, and eventually a Georgia thread.

We also probably need a Trump lawyer FAFO thread.

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4062

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

"There's a totally perfect african american in my ass right now. The very best african american. But I have to say, the food has gone to hell. When I was president, a Prisoner would get the very best food Anywhere. Totally "the" best. They thought Bobby Flay was working in There. They would tell Me that. But now thanks to the Biden Crime Family and the do-Nothing socialist Pinko communist "anarchist" fascist Leftist democrats, it doesn't "even" compare to a breakfast buffet from some fleabag Hotel in a Shithole country."

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C-Man

C-Man 27262

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20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

One thing is, this thread is too all-encompassing.  Seems to me we ought to have a Mar-A-Lago thread, a Manhattan thread, a DC 1/6 thread, and eventually a Georgia thread.

We also probably need a Trump lawyer FAFO thread.

So, Texags.com?

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bolverk

bolverk 29717

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23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

One thing is, this thread is too all-encompassing.  Seems to me we ought to have a Mar-A-Lago thread, a Manhattan thread, a DC 1/6 thread, and eventually a Georgia thread.

We also probably need a Trump lawyer FAFO thread.

Just start a new thread to break out all the lawyer shit talking.

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C-Man

C-Man 27262

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Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't spend enough time on texags to know.

You don't think it might be helpful to "sort" these topics?

Just giving you a hard time. They create a new thread for seemingly every single thought that comes into their tiny, little brains.

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