Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty

[Red Five 40858]

This is going to be hilarious. "Well, Rudy saw something on facebook....."

[Neonmoon 38129]

RICO in Georgia has a mandatory minimum sentence. No probation allowed. 

[Goredho 17406]

11 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I'm shocked he actually typed the "R"

Rigger, please.

[Bozo_Casanova 26460]

10 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

hmm, now I'm thinking about this - most qualified Presidential candidates of the last 31 years:
1) Gore - 2000
2) Biden - 2020
3) GHWB - 1992 (inc.)
4) B Clinton - 1992
5) Bob Dole! - 1996
6) Hillary Clinton - 2016
7) GWB - 2000
8 ) Obama - 2008
9) Trump - 2016
 

OK, sorry to come back to this tangent from when we were waiting for the indictment to drop but I thought about it overnight and this list is protarded on multiple levels. The new, definitive list:
1) GHWB
1a) Gore
3) Biden
4) Bob Dole!
5) McCain
6) Bill Clinton
7) John Kerry
8 ) Hillary Clinton
9) GWB
10) Ross Perot 
11) Obama
12) Trump

Of the above, all of the top 11 were legitimately qualified for the presidency, although the top 3 were in a class by themselves.

That is all.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[Homercles 10205]

Woke up this morning like a gotdamn Folgers ad fucked a fabric softener commercial and had a baby…‘every accusation is a confession’ proven right again.  Wow. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26460]

9 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

You can’t overlook the fact that Hillary played a significant role in politics throughout Bill’s career. She wasn’t a Melania. She was a partner. She was involved. An Arkansas politician once remarked, “We elected the wrong Clinton.” Don’t sell her short.

That's a bug, not a feature. I don't like spouses acting as unofficial #2. This isn't Argentina or Texas under the Fergusons. I don't want Chasten Buttigieg acting as shadow secretary of Transportation or assistant President in the event that Pete becomes our second openly gay President, and I was likewise never comfortable with the idea of a former president sitting over in the East Wing with the ability to lobby the current head of the executive branch from the other side of the bed. It also demeaned the significance of a woman being elected President. 

[jimmyjazz 45948]

41 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, that's true.  I think you mentioned it previously, but one of the big pluses of a RICO case is so many people become criminally liable for so much stuff just by being part of the "enterprise" that there's a huge incentive for low-levels to plead out and give evidence on higher ups.

Still that "I'm gonna try all the defendants together" is a curious thing to say.

Maybe she expects a significant portion of the 19 defendants to flip in exchange for immunity, thus reducing the trial to a more manageable size?

 

[Pig Bellmont 8718]

56 minutes ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

 

Hell of a campaign slogan. Put it on a bumper sticker!

[blacklab 11929]

Off topic posts are going to be deleted and rewarded with time off. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26460]

9 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

6-0, 295, and this needs to be a pool.  

Agree, but he's lost weight for the campaign, and fat weighs less than muscle. 
I'd say the O/U is 240, and I'm taking the under. 

[Beau Vine 54226]

8 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Are we getting the Prisoner's Dilemma played out amongst 19 people?

Probably not, because they aren't separated and prevented from talking to each other.  But still, everybody is going to wonder what everybody else is willing to say.

Plus they're all morons, and PD only works with rational participants.

[The Dog 44051]

Word is the reason certain people aren't indicted is because they flipped.

Exhibit A - Lin Wood:

 

[The Dog 44051]

ajc this morning:

[Js1 85336]

12 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Agree, but he's lost weight for the campaign, and fat weighs less than muscle. 
I'd say the O/U is 240, and I'm taking the under. 

Same weight, different density 

[BamaATL 16593]

I'm about a third of the way reading the indictment and something sort of funny occurred to me.  There is a real chance that Kanye West is one of the unindicted co-conspirators in a racketeering charge in a coup attempt of the United States.  If you had that on your bingo card, I'm impressed.  

[Native Horn 3504]

1 hour ago, Constant said:

Republicans must be getting tired of this act right? They just must. 

Indicated.

[atomheartbevo 89665]

53 minutes ago, Constant said:

Where was this irrefutable REPORT 2.5 years ago?

I said it earlier - if you get any relatives/friends who pull the "Trump has evidence it was rigged" crap, ask them why he wouldn't produce it while he was still in the White House, why he didn't bother putting it on his campaign website since he left office, why he didn't make a presentation of the evidence at a rally.  Ask them why he's promised the evidence for a couple of years but somehow can't produce it, as if he's fundraising off of it. Make them defend this shit. Tell them to tune in to his press conference on Monday and then quote what Trump actually claims as evidence.

1 hour ago, Mdhorn said:

So, while they've been citing the Left for "Woke," and cancel culture, they were actively rigging voting machines and trying to throw an election?  The Left must seem down right primitive to their way of thinking.  They've been woke, cancelled culture (Florida does it best when they rewrite history) and are now on to new ways of cheating Democracy.  

Don't forget that Trump claims you can't arrest the leading candidate, yet when he campaigned in 2016...

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/521436-trump-says-he-agrees-100-percent-with-lock-her-up-chants-about/

['stache 21815]

Did he seriously type "indicated" again? JFC

[G650 14256]

Just now, 'stache said:

Did he seriously type "indicated" again? JFC

 

No I don't think so, I was just reposting the original because it's literally the funniest thing I've ever seen.

[Red Five 40858]

Lulz, "Can you believe they indicated me again??"

"Yes. We've all heard the phone call."

[royiv 9317]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

I'm shocked he actually typed the "R"

So he's going to commit some more crimes at 11a on Monday?

[HenryJames 66052]

40 minutes ago, The Dog said:

ajc this morning:

x,x,x,5,x

x,1,X,2,x

x,4,X,x,3

x,x,x,x,x

[Gatorubet 30238]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

RICO in Georgia has a mandatory minimum sentence. No probation allowed. 

Everybody keep saying that, but I do not believe that is correct.  See this Georgia Criminal Rico conviction on appeal, discussing sentencing issues:
 

Quote

As discussed at length, supra, Cotman and Williamson were charged and convicted of conspiracy to violate the RICO Act under OCGA § 16–14–4 (c). And OCGA § 16–14–5 (a), the sentencing section of the RICO Act, provides that “[a]ny person convicted of the offense of engaging in activity in violation of Code Section 16–14–4 shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by not less than five nor more than 20 years’ imprisonment or the fine specified in subsection (b) of this Code section, or both.”

In this matter, after conducting a hearing, the trial court sentenced Cotman to twenty years, with seven years to serve in incarceration, and sentenced Williamson to five years, with two years to serve in incarceration. And although these sentences were within the range provided in OCGA § 16–14–5 (a), the defendants argue that *587 they should have been sentencedunder the general conspiracy statute, which provides:

 

Cotman v. State, 342 Ga. App. 569, 586–87, 804 S.E.2d 672, 685 (2017)

 

[jimmyjazz 45948]

But that's not probation.  It looks like Cotman received the minimum sentence, right?

[atomheartbevo 89665]

Liz should be careful about what she posts..

 

[Beau Vine 54226]

6 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

x,x,x,5,x

x,1,X,2,x

x,4,X,x,3

x,x,x,x,x

[dcbc 14484]

1 hour ago, Constant said:

Where was this irrefutable REPORT 2.5 years ago?

[atomheartbevo 89665]

This is what MAGA is pushing

 

Fani managed to unite 19 of them, that's for sure.

[dcbc 14484]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

RICO in Georgia has a mandatory minimum sentence. No probation allowed. 

Fani said that, but it may not in fact be the case.  She may have meant she isn't offering probation with any plea bargains.  Also, the idea of the top of a RICO pyramid getting probation in this case seems unlikely.  Sentencing range in GA is 5--20 or a fine or both.

Edited August 15, 2023 by dcbc

[Js1 85336]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

This is what MAGA is pushing

 

Fani managed to unite 19 of them, that's for sure.

Consolidating your base but turning off independents is truly smart politics. It’s not like he can really improve on winning GOP voters 97/3 or whatever if you lose independents by any significant margin. 

[Brisketexan 105139]

25 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I'm about a third of the way reading the indictment and something sort of funny occurred to me.  There is a real chance that Kanye West is one of the unindicted co-conspirators in a racketeering charge in a coup attempt of the United States.  If you had that on your bingo card, I'm impressed.  

I mean.....this.

I want y'all to imagine that you had a working time machine.  You use it to go back 20 years, back when W was president.  And you sit down with a group of your peers, and tell them EXACTLY what is going to happen from 2015 (real kickoff of Trump's campaign) to present.  All of it.  The birther roots of the movement, the weird meetings and ties with Russians and shit.  The 2016 election.  All the batshittery of the Trump presidency (his praise of Putin, meeting in Helsinki, the relentless cascade of easily proven lies, using his family as gov't officials, all that shit).  The pandemic, and how the POTUS reacted.  Then the 2020 election and the insanity that followed, including the violent coup attempt.  The involvement of fucking Kanye.  The devolution of Rudy.

Your friends would have you involuntarily committed because you are CLEARLY COMPLETELY INSANE.  Yet every word you said is 100% true.

Our historical truth over the last 10 years or so is much, much more deranged than any fiction.  And it continues.

There is a material chance of one or more of the following things in the next 18 months:

1) a former POTUS is convicted and imprisoned for serious crimes, and not incidental shit (like he ripped off a business partner), but crimes committed in connection with and in furtherance of his thirst for absolute power.  This, and this alone makes this a wackadoo timeline.  But wait, there's MORE.....

2) a violent terrorist attack on one or more courthouses, prisons, and/or judicial or law enforcement officials involved with these prosecutions and/or imprisonment.

3) one of our two major parties nominates a convicted felon for POTUS (convicted on one or more of the charges in item 1 above).

4) that convicted felon WINS THE FUCKING PRESIDENCY.

5) another violent terrorist attack on some apparatus of federal power (the Capitol, the White House, something) by outraged cultists demanding that their king be released from prison to reign forever.

There's not just a "non-zero" chance of those things.  Item 1 seems more likely than not.  Items 2 and 3 are also more likely than not (shit, item 3 is a stone-cold lock....the only question is whether he's actually convicted of something by then).  4 and 5 are somewhat less likely, but they're above 5-10%.

I'm a student of politics and history.  If you'd told me this shit 20 years ago, I'd never speak to you again, because you are clearly dangerously deranged.  And yet you are reciting actual history that actually happened.  What a fucking timeline.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

2 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I doubt they were rigging them, I assume they were looking for evidence of tampering because they are so stupid they believed the big lie. Like immediately believed it. Of course they chose a district Trump won huge because those are the rot brains that would give them access. 

I think they were trying to tamper with them in order to show that tampering with them is possible. They think that strengthens their accusation that tampering occurred. 

[TwiceHorn 31470]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

But that's not probation.  It looks like Cotman received the minimum sentence, right?

Looks like Georgia may be what they call an "Indeterminate sentence" jurisdiction.

Those are the ones where the sentence is like "20 to life," or "five to 10."  And that generally means that they go to jail and may be paroled after the lower number, 20 or five using the above, or not.

So, it looks like for compliance with the mandatory minimum specified in the statute, you use the higher number, life or 10, in the above example.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Holy shit. Rudy is such a piece of shit. In the indictment, it says that Rudy stated to the Georgia subcommittee that Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss were “quite obviously surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they’re vials of heroin or cocaine”

Meant to post this here. Not in DT

Translation: ‘Look at those black women! They’re like drug dealers!’

[Js1 85336]

Just now, WhatTheBuck said:

I think they were trying to tamper with them in order to show that tampering with them is possible. They think that strengthens their accusation that tampering occurred. 

GOP: the machines were tampered with

DOJ: how do you know?

GOP: bc we hacked them already in 2016 to show how easily they were tampered with! And we had to hack them again in 2020 to show how the Dems were tampering. 
 

 

 

Also we somehow found 11k votes for Trump once we hacked them. Crazy coincidence! 

[Gatorubet 30238]

10 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

But that's not probation.  It looks like Cotman received the minimum sentence, right?

No.  Cotman got 20, has to serve 7.  Williams got the mandatory 5 years, has to serve 2.

[tx ind 7013]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I mean.....this.

I want y'all to imagine that you had a working time machine.  You use it to go back 20 years, back when W was president.  And you sit down with a group of your peers, and tell them EXACTLY what is going to happen from 2015 (real kickoff of Trump's campaign) to present.  All of it.  The birther roots of the movement, the weird meetings and ties with Russians and shit.  The 2016 election.  All the batshittery of the Trump presidency (his praise of Putin, meeting in Helsinki, the relentless cascade of easily proven lies, using his family as gov't officials, all that shit).  The pandemic, and how the POTUS reacted.  Then the 2020 election and the insanity that followed, including the violent coup attempt.  The involvement of fucking Kanye.  The devolution of Rudy.

Your friends would have you involuntarily committed because you are CLEARLY COMPLETELY INSANE.  Yet every word you said is 100% true.

Our historical truth over the last 10 years or so is much, much more deranged than any fiction.  And it continues.

There is a material chance of one or more of the following things in the next 18 months:

1) a former POTUS is convicted and imprisoned for serious crimes, and not incidental shit (like he ripped off a business partner), but crimes committed in connection with and in furtherance of his thirst for absolute power.  This, and this alone makes this a wackadoo timeline.  But wait, there's MORE.....

2) a violent terrorist attack on one or more courthouses, prisons, and/or judicial or law enforcement officials involved with these prosecutions and/or imprisonment.

3) one of our two major parties nominates a convicted felon for POTUS (convicted on one or more of the charges in item 1 above).

4) that convicted felon WINS THE FUCKING PRESIDENCY.

5) another violent terrorist attack on some apparatus of federal power (the Capitol, the White House, something) by outraged cultists demanding that their king be released from prison to reign forever.

There's not just a "non-zero" chance of those things.  Item 1 seems more likely than not.  Items 2 and 3 are also more likely than not (shit, item 3 is a stone-cold lock....the only question is whether he's actually convicted of something by then).  4 and 5 are somewhat less likely, but they're above 5-10%.

I'm a student of politics and history.  If you'd told me this shit 20 years ago, I'd never speak to you again, because you are clearly dangerously deranged.  And yet you are reciting actual history that actually happened.  What a fucking timeline.

this sums it up

 

[dcbc 14484]

14 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Everybody keep saying that, but I do not believe that is correct.  See this Georgia Criminal Rico conviction on appeal, discussing sentencing issues:
 

 

The GA community supervision statute generally applies, except where the potential sentence is death, life imprisonment, or, presumably, some of the sex crime statutes.  So I think you're right.  The DA said no probation last night, but see my post above about a possible interpretation of that statement and why it is doubtful Trump would have his entire sentence suspended and, instead by placed on community supervision (hint, he's the main guy)

[TwiceHorn 31470]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Holy shit. Rudy is such a piece of shit. In the indictment, it says that Rudy stated to the Georgia subcommittee that Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss were “quite obviously surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they’re vials of heroin or cocaine”

Meant to post this here. Not in DT

Also notable that in their defamation suit, Giuliani has admitted "for purposes of this litigation only"** that he made those statements, they are false, and they are defamatory.

**I don't think you can actually do that.  But then again, I'm not sure his admission there is going to be binding in a criminal case.  It probably would be in another civil case and is a prior inconsistent statement/admission of party opponent in any case.

[BamaATL 16593]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I mean.....this.

 

Your friends would have you involuntarily committed because you are CLEARLY COMPLETELY INSANE.  Yet every word you said is 100% true.

Our historical truth over the last 10 years or so is much, much more deranged than any fiction.  And it continues.

There is a material chance of one or more of the following things in the next 18 months:

1) a former POTUS is convicted and imprisoned for serious crimes, and not incidental shit (like he ripped off a business partner), but crimes committed in connection with and in furtherance of his thirst for absolute power.  This, and this alone makes this a wackadoo timeline.  But wait, there's MORE.....

2) a violent terrorist attack on one or more courthouses, prisons, and/or judicial or law enforcement officials involved with these prosecutions and/or imprisonment.

3) one of our two major parties nominates a convicted felon for POTUS (convicted on one or more of the charges in item 1 above).

4) that convicted felon WINS THE FUCKING PRESIDENCY.

5) another violent terrorist attack on some apparatus of federal power (the Capitol, the White House, something) by outraged cultists demanding that their king be released from prison to reign forever.

There's not just a "non-zero" chance of those things.  Item 1 seems more likely than not.  Items 2 and 3 are also more likely than not (shit, item 3 is a stone-cold lock....the only question is whether he's actually convicted of something by then).  4 and 5 are somewhat less likely, but they're above 5-10%.

I'm a student of politics and history.  If you'd told me this shit 20 years ago, I'd never speak to you again, because you are clearly dangerously deranged.  And yet you are reciting actual history that actually happened.  What a fucking timeline.

This is normal, it's like living in Alabama, trust me

[jimmyjazz 45948]

10 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

No.  Cotman got 20, has to serve 7.  Williams got the mandatory 5 years, has to serve 2.

OK, I accidentally flipped the names.  My bad.  The point stands.

[The Dog 44051]

 

[Goredho 17406]

Every day I'm struck more and more by how one of Trump/MAGA or the United States as we have known it is going to cease to be.  There's no way for them to co-exist.  If the prevailing view is that Trump is a criminal that tried to steal the 2020 election through criminal conspiracy and failed coup attempt, then he will be in jail for a long time, the GOP will be a smoldering ruin and MAGAs compelled to act will be viewed and treated as domestic terrorists.  The exploitable hate, misogyny, racism, nationalism and xenophobia will still be there amongst the population, but the movement it all coalesced into as a political force within the Republican party won't be.  It will go back into hiding to rise again in another generation or two.

If the prevailing view is that Trump was defrauded of an election and wrongfully persecuted on trumped (pun intended) up charges by agencies of the US government, then the US government will be purged and reconstituted to align with the MAGA view of the world.  The domestic terrorists would be in charge of reshaping the government and society in general.  The David Koresh's, Timothy McVeigh's, Terry Nichols, Ron Weavers & Cliven Bundy's of the world will have won and get to write the new rules by which we all must abide by.  It will be an American Apartheid if not Taliban.

I just don't see how one of those two outcomes doesn't come to pass.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Goredho

[dcbc 14484]

21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Looks like Georgia may be what they call an "Indeterminate sentence" jurisdiction.

Those are the ones where the sentence is like "20 to life," or "five to 10."  And that generally means that they go to jail and may be paroled after the lower number, 20 or five using the above, or not.

So, it looks like for compliance with the mandatory minimum specified in the statute, you use the higher number, life or 10, in the above example.

I just glanced at the Community Supervision part of their penal code, but I did not read it that way.  I could have missed something.

[G650 14256]

4 minutes ago, Goredho said:

the GOP will be a smoldering ruin

 

I think this will partially come to pass, but I was pondering it last night. There will always be an opposition party, I think in it's current form the GOP is untenable, but it won't take a lot of movement for them to course correct, even after all this nonsense the past decade. Guys like Youngkin will carry it forward.

[Beau Vine 54226]

 

[Gatorubet 30238]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

OK, I accidentally flipped the names.  My bad.  The point stands.

Serving 2 of the mandatory 5 is probation, in the general sense of not serving detention.   Not sure what you mean. 

[Superhero 8830]

59 minutes ago, The Dog said:

ajc this morning:

Wonder if there is one of these at the DOJ and Atlanta?

 

Also wondering when Layla starts and we get the montage of people getting whacked to protect the Don. 

[atomheartbevo 89665]

5 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Every day I'm struck more and more by how one of Trump/MAGA or the United States as we have known it is going to cease to be.  There's no way for them to co-exist.  If the prevailing view is that Trump is a criminal that tried to steal the 2020 election through criminal conspiracy and failed coup attempt, then he will be in jail for a long time, the GOP will be a smoldering ruin and MAGAs compelled to act will be viewed and treated as domestic terrorists. 

Given, as Barbara Comstock has said, that you're not seeing massive protests in the streets, it's going to be Trump/MAGA going away.  If they were going to be in the streets or starting shit, now is the time to be doing it.  But nobody tried to form a human chain around any of the places that he's already been indicted to try and keep him from going inside when he showed up at those places. The one guy we've had arrested was arrested for mocking Trump (well holding up traffic while mocking Trump).

Chris Christie appears to be gaining some traction (of course it helps that Meatball sucks).

Then you have stuff like this - He knows full well he will catch shit from Trump, just as the former Georgia Lt. Gov. did.

 

[TwiceHorn 31470]

2 minutes ago, dcbc said:

I just glanced at the Community Supervision part of their penal code, but I did not read it that way.  I could have missed something.

Well, looking at their pardon and parole board site, it appears that Georgia is heavily dependent on parole.  They don't pardon and commute sentences, because you can't get a pardon until you have completed your sentence, plus five.

Neither, apparently, will they commute a sentence without a pardon, as the feds can do.  They just grant parole, that's it.