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[Pancho 44965]

1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

 

 

 

Georgia Primary is March 12th

 

 

 

[TeeDubya 3362]

I'm thankful everyday that these insurrectionists and their Orange Cheeto leader are so fucking stupid.  My kids had better ability to cover their tracks when they were four years old.

[Native Horn 3512]

6 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

March forth, indeed.  Go Fani, go!

[nbmishoid 962]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

They do have a tendency toward being conservative, but I'll say that most of them that I encounter keep it to themselves.

Well, thinking back to pre retirement gets harder, but I conjecture that many engineers are taught an exclusively instrumental mind set.  Manipulate the physical world for “benefit”.   Benefit that equals dollars and the math gets easy.  Leave people and the world at large out of your mindset. What do you get?

Sure, I wish we could stuff an ethics course in there.  But advisory committees get told the undergrads are maxed on required hours (128 or 130, can’t recall).   No one can agree on what to take away.  
 

Our pedagogy and our commercial culture manufacture the engineers we get.  We could do better.

[SydneyCarton 48150]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

What you're forgetting is that mediocre poontang who will do moderately-to-insanely dirty stuff your vanilla, uptight wife wouldn't dream of.....is priceless.  And, undefeated.

Ask a repressed old Republican white man how much mediocre poontang a young boy who will lick your balls is worth, and they'll answer......

Fixed it for accuracy. 

[jimmyjazz 46095]

4 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Sure, I wish we could stuff an ethics course in there.  But advisory committees get told the undergrads are maxed on required hours (128 or 130, can’t recall).   No one can agree on what to take away.  

My undergrad program had a required ethics course across every engineering discipline.  128 hours to graduate.

That wasn't exactly recent, though.

[nbmishoid 962]

Well, obviously a course like that can do wonders!   Your post means, yes, we can choose to educate this way.   Depending, of course, on where one lives.

[Nuge 1985]

From facebook but I thought it might work here, too.

[Satchel 6948]

Side note. The question asked on this morning’s Washington Journal on C-SPAN was should we look to the POTUS for moral leadership. The answers by and large were disappointing, if not surprising. The MAGAs didn’t think much of the idea.

[tx 3 putt 77336]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yep.  That's the one question that the MAGAts can't handle: imagine January 6th, but instead of almost all white dipshits in red hats, it was a crowd of muslims doing THE EXACT SAME THING, claiming that they had a holy duty to have their preferred Imam installed as leader, because it was Allah's will.  We'd have mowed those people down with a .50 cal, and every MAGAt would have cheered for the gunners.

MAGAts are just lighter-skinned fanatical terrorists.

And we should have fucking mowed them down on Jan 6th.  Sic Semper Terrorists.

Ask any Maga - if Obama had done everything that trump has been accused of, how would feel about his innocence ?

[NWBuck 8583]

3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Baron Von Taintstain

Punch Rockgroin!

Buck Plankchest!

Stump Chunkmen!

[texasdago 7577]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

The problem? Their intake from their rubes isn't keeping up and they are running a monthly deficit.

Funny... I read this as rubles.  

[locodos 5390]

11 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Well, thinking back to pre retirement gets harder, but I conjecture that many engineers are taught an exclusively instrumental mind set.  Manipulate the physical world for “benefit”.   Benefit that equals dollars and the math gets easy.  Leave people and the world at large out of your mindset. What do you get?

Sure, I wish we could stuff an ethics course in there.  But advisory committees get told the undergrads are maxed on required hours (128 or 130, can’t recall).   No one can agree on what to take away.  
 

Our pedagogy and our commercial culture manufacture the engineers we get.  We could do better.

Not conservatives, not GOP. 

I'm amazed that this obliterated narrative keeps getting brought up.  NO, conservatives pick issues only with their hearts, not with their heads.

The idea of the GOP being the party of law and order, science, and cold analysis got dragged out to wood shed and gang raped by Reagan, Newt, and the Costco Republicans.

• Universal pre-k pays for itself, increases GDP, reduces crime, and host of other societal issues...   Nope can't have that
• Sex Ed reduces abortion and pays for itself...  Nope
• School lunches, nope 
• Funding education, nope pfffft - who wants an educated workforce? Commies that's who!
• Preventative healthcare, nope 
• Support for Veterans, fuck those losers, nope
• Climate denial, that won't cost us anything, right?
• Infrastructure reinvestment, nope
• Immigration, lulz talk to farmers in Florida to see how that's going.  Whilst simultaneously complaining about demographic collapse / population decline in the US

 

Tell me again how cold calculating engineers used science and math to formulate policies that ignore the world and scientists around them.  

 

[grazinhorn 472]

21 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Side note. The question asked on this morning’s Washington Journal on C-SPAN was should we look to the POTUS for moral leadership. The answers by and large were disappointing, if not surprising. The MAGAs didn’t think much of the idea.

Continuing the aside briefly, I don't expect politicians to be the most moral, upstanding people in the world - far from it.  Something drew them to politics, and, to say nothing of the moral failings anyone will exhibit at some point in life, I  quite simply I don't believe most are idealists or those who put serving others first.  Maybe some start out that way, but I have a tough time believing that it sticks.  That said, how about just not showing exemplary leadership in how to be complete ass?

 

ETA: I am speaking very generically here, which is probably not so wise on this particular thread.  I do think there are a good number of politicians that are not complete ass...  high bar, I realize.

Edited August 16, 2023 by grazinhorn

[Bozo_Casanova 26522]

20 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Punch Rockgroin!

Buck Plankchest!

Stump Chunkmen!

We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese!

[Js1 85527]

4 minutes ago, grazinhorn said:

hat said, how about just not showing exemplary leadership in how to be complete ass?

Moral center? No. 

The adult leader in the room? And preferably more of a uniter.  They are president of the UNITED states, not President of the Democrats or President of the Republicans.  We absolutely lost sight of that at some point. 

It's a lot of why I like Biden - a lot of what he is doing (manufacturing and solar jobs and infrastructure projects) are helping people who didn't vote for him, but he is still their president and they are still Americans. That's leadership. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Js1

[hayden_horn 11365]

19 hours ago, Radical Larry said:

HILL STREET BLUES!

 

19 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

THAT'S INCREDIBLE!

 

19 hours ago, bolverk said:

 

 MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL!

i love you all and for the first time took a second to change my avatar on this site. ha.

[jimmyjazz 46095]

35 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Well, obviously a course like that can do wonders!   Your post means, yes, we can choose to educate this way.   Depending, of course, on where one lives.

Everyone had to take the EIT to graduate, too.  Didn't have to pass, but our pass rate was ~ 99%.

[Macanudo 13009]

19 minutes ago, Js1 said:

  They are president of the UNITED states, not President of the Democrats or President of the Republicans.  We absolutely lost sight of that at some point. 

 

It's one reason that I wish POTUS was considered the leader of his/her party and also was not allowed to campaign or endorse any other candidates.  Once elected, in office or out of office, you are a statesman, not a campaigner in chief.

[nbmishoid 962]

27 minutes ago, locodos said:

Not conservatives, not GOP. 

I'm amazed that this obliterated narrative keeps getting brought up.  NO, conservatives pick issues only with their hearts, not with their heads.

The idea of the GOP being the party of law and order, science, and cold analysis got dragged out to wood shed and gang raped by Reagan, Newt, and the Costco Republicans.

• Universal pre-k pays for itself, increases GDP, reduces crime, and host of other societal issues...   Nope can't have that
• Sex Ed reduces abortion and pays for itself...  Nope
• School lunches, nope 
• Funding education, nope pfffft - who wants an educated workforce? Commies that's who!
• Preventative healthcare, nope 
• Support for Veterans, fuck those losers, nope
• Climate denial, that won't cost us anything, right?
• Infrastructure reinvestment, nope
• Immigration, lulz talk to farmers in Florida to see how that's going.  Whilst simultaneously complaining about demographic collapse / population decline in the US

 

Tell me again how cold calculating engineers used science and math to formulate policies that ignore the world and scientists around them.  

 

Well, I didn’t say or mean any such thing.  What started as a mild jest with Twice led me to wonder why most engineers are politically conservative.  You and I presumably being engineers, what is your take on engineers and conservatism?   Is it just the white male in us?   Or, is it your experience most engineers are libs?

[DDD Dad 14347]

1 hour ago, TeeDubya said:

I'm thankful everyday that these insurrectionists and their Orange Cheeto leader are so fucking stupid.  My kids had better ability to cover their tracks when they were four years old.

Your kids tried to overturn an election?

[Hookah Horns 3083]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yep.  That's the one question that the MAGAts can't handle: imagine January 6th, but instead of almost all white dipshits in red hats, it was a crowd of muslims doing THE EXACT SAME THING, claiming that they had a holy duty to have their preferred Imam installed as leader, because it was Allah's will.  We'd have mowed those people down with a .50 cal, and every MAGAt would have cheered for the gunners.

MAGAts are just lighter-skinned fanatical terrorists.

And we should have fucking mowed them down on Jan 6th.  Sic Semper Terrorists.

I once made this argument to a couple magats. They claimed they didn't see any similarities. I've always wondered if they were lying. 

[Pig Bellmont 8724]

12 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

It's one reason that I wish POTUS was considered the leader of his/her party and also was not allowed to campaign or endorse any other candidates.  Once elected, in office or out of office, you are a statesman, not a campaigner in chief.

As long as we’re wishcasting, all federal elections should be publicly funded with no outside money spent and campaigning should be limited to only 2 months prior to the election 

[locodos 5390]

3 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Well, I didn’t say or mean any such thing.  What started as a mild jest with Twice led me to wonder why most engineers are politically conservative.  You and I presumably being engineers, what is your take on engineers and conservatism?   Is it just the white male in us?   Or, is it your experience most engineers are libs?

I'm not an engineer, but the three that I know very well (mechanical, civil, and nuclear) are absolutely NOT republicans.  Not a significant sample size, I know.  I would suspect that family, region of the country, religion, and University environment play a larger role in determining political leanings.  

I'm just tired of the myth of the gop being the choice of pragmatic, cold calculation.  It's just absolute BS.

[Brisketexan 105275]

6 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

I once made this argument to a couple magats. They claimed they didn't see any similarities. I've always wondered if they were lying. 

Dude.  They're MAGAts.  "Lying" is their most blessed, holy sacrament.  It's so holy that they even do it to themselves.

[miguelito 11291]

7 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Your kids tried to overturn an election?

When dad said No, they went and asked mom. 

[G650 14273]

Most engineers I know aren't necessarily conservative, but rather have a very low social IQ

[Radical Larry 28660]

Your kids tried to overturn an election?

Preschool class president elections are serious business.

[Pancho 44965]

 

[Dark Horse 2290]

24 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Well, I didn’t say or mean any such thing.  What started as a mild jest with Twice led me to wonder why most engineers are politically conservative.  You and I presumably being engineers, what is your take on engineers and conservatism?   Is it just the white male in us?   Or, is it your experience most engineers are libs?

My experience in the O&G industry is that’s it’s a generational divide; just like most of America. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Dark Horse

[F250 28814]

3 hours ago, Bodhi said:

The fact that she is a Russian foreign agent will lend itself well to some James Bond bedroom role play.  

Sean Connery or Daniel Craig? I ask because one of them is a major psycho.

 

[Biff Tannen 45712]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

Oh yippee

[nbmishoid 962]

As my mismanagement of this thread section proves.

[Red Five 40881]

7 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

I bet any moment now, Dotard issues a statement saying to respect the process and to give these public servants their privacy and safety. 

[Celery Man 20996]

17 minutes ago, locodos said:

I'm just tired of the myth of the gop being the choice of pragmatic, cold calculation.  It's just absolute BS.

If you reached “GOP!” at the end of the best cold rational pragmatic thinking your brain can muster, you’re even stupider than the average Republican who got there by being a big pussy.

[nbmishoid 962]

20 minutes ago, locodos said:

I'm not an engineer, but the three that I know very well (mechanical, civil, and nuclear) are absolutely NOT republicans.  Not a significant sample size, I know.  I would suspect that family, region of the country, religion, and University environment play a larger role in determining political leanings.  

I'm just tired of the myth of the gop being the choice of pragmatic, cold calculation.  It's just absolute BS.

I don’t support that myth, thank you for emphasis on that. My background was as “head” of a 1500 person workforce.  I was shocked by the number of young people hooked on watching Fox in a conference room for lunch, every day.  That was 12 years go. 

[Js1 85527]

15 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

It’s public info in Georgia and was in the indictment documents we all saw 

[nbmishoid 962]

59 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Everyone had to take the EIT to graduate, too.  Didn't have to pass, but our pass rate was ~ 99%.

I was surprised at the depth of the EIT.  Of course, none of the questions were PEng related so I was somewhat out of my depth. 99% pass rate is WOW.  We are not worthy!

[TwiceHorn 31529]

1 hour ago, locodos said:

Not conservatives, not GOP. 

I'm amazed that this obliterated narrative keeps getting brought up.  NO, conservatives pick issues only with their hearts, not with their heads.

The idea of the GOP being the party of law and order, science, and cold analysis got dragged out to wood shed and gang raped by Reagan, Newt, and the Costco Republicans.

• Universal pre-k pays for itself, increases GDP, reduces crime, and host of other societal issues...   Nope can't have that
• Sex Ed reduces abortion and pays for itself...  Nope
• School lunches, nope 
• Funding education, nope pfffft - who wants an educated workforce? Commies that's who!
• Preventative healthcare, nope 
• Support for Veterans, fuck those losers, nope
• Climate denial, that won't cost us anything, right?
• Infrastructure reinvestment, nope
• Immigration, lulz talk to farmers in Florida to see how that's going.  Whilst simultaneously complaining about demographic collapse / population decline in the US

 

Tell me again how cold calculating engineers used science and math to formulate policies that ignore the world and scientists around them.  

 

Well, I think he does have a point that a lot of engineering tends to be "practical" almost to the exclusion of human or ethical considerations.  To be dominated be a tyranny of numbers, so to speak.  And the curriculum tends to virtually exclude the humanities, just trying to cram in all the things an engineering graduate ought to know.

And I'd say that probably reinforces a tendency among those who choose engineering and stay with it to be perhaps somewhat less empathetic.

And then you get into the professional world and get "bean-countered" to death, leading to things like the Pinto fuel tank disaster and increasing the tyranny of numbers to include "cost engineering."

Nevertheless, I'd say engineers' overall tendency toward conservatism is more of the "classical liberal conservatism": careful consideration of change, incrementalism, etc.  Of course lots of people that were good-faith conservatives have allowed themselves to be sucked into what passes for conservatism today.

I'm not sure an ethics course is going to solve any of those problems, exactly.  Maybe an ethics component to every course that it can be wedged into, kind of like it is for CLE for lawyers.

Curiously, I found the people in engineering at UT in the mid-late 80s to be far more well rounded individuals than the people I encountered at UT Law immediately thereafter, and despite the latter group's diversity of education and educational institutions.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[jimmyjazz 46095]

2 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

I was surprised at the depth of the EIT.  Of course, none of the questions were PEng related so I was somewhat out of my depth. 99% pass rate is WOW.  We are not worthy!

One of the very best undergrad engineering schools in the country.  Not as revered for the PhD track, although outstanding.

I would say that in my 35 year+ experience as an engineer, the lib/con split is probably 60/40, but I've always been in R&D, where people tend to be free-thinking cowboys.  I've never done time at a Boeing or Shell or other mammoth corporation, I could see where there might be significant differences.

[TwiceHorn 31529]

7 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

I don’t support that myth, thank you for emphasis on that. My background was as “head” of a 1500 person workforce.  I was shocked by the number of young people hooked on watching Fox in a conference room for lunch, every day.  That was 12 years go. 

Yeah and I might guess that O&G environment also tends to increase tendencies toward conservatism, especially the illegitimate kind moreso than being a circuit designer or wafer-handling engineer at a semiconductor company.

[atomheartbevo 89778]

6 hours ago, Born to Run said:

8 hours ago, Homercles said:

Absolutely none of this shocks me

I don't know why Musk tries to carry his water, but the truth that everything Trump touches dies, remains.

Because Trump is the kind of politician Musk would be, if he were a politician.  Also, Trump and Musk followers overlap in the Venn diagram. I suspect Musk has tried to help Trump by downplaying some Twitter accounts during the past few months.  

4 hours ago, Rimbo said:

I'm normally a fan of redheads, but something about that face is an immediate turn-off.

Something I saw far too often in the dumb kids and bullies growing up.

i dunno... fetal alcohol syndrome, maybe?

Well she’s Russian, so of course feral alcohol syndrome.

Also, really shocked at a lack of Russian involvement in all of these indictments, but then again a lot of their involvement was with Republican politicians elsewhere, and through social media, which is its own bailiwick.  Still, we know they were amplifying Trump’s false claims.

[The Dog 44124]

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

19 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

Ok. Here's how we're going to beat this Georgia case that includes intimidating election workers that Rudy has confessed he lied about.

 

 

We're going to intimidate grand jury members. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

4 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Reminds me of my friend who's a Bills fan when discussing the idea of getting back to the Super Bowl.

One for the thumb.

[F250 28814]

12 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Well she’s Russian, so of course feral alcohol syndrome.

Most of Surly develops feral alcohol syndrome during the college football season.

 

[Brisketexan 105275]

9 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Ok. Here's how we're going to beat this Georgia case that includes intimidating election workers that Rudy has confessed he lied about.

 

 

We're going to intimidate kill grand jury members. 

FIF likelihood.

Tree of Life Synagogue ring a bell?  El Paso Wal-Mart, maybe?  These are acts of stochastic terrorist mass-murder (note that nearly all of the terrorist mass-murders in the US in the last 20 years have been by right wing shitheels).  The alt-right (not alt anymore -- it's the regular GQP ecosystem now) spews non-stop that anyone they don't like (minorities, democrats, jurors who don't do what they want, any public officials (including Republicans) who don't do exactly what they want) are dangerous enemies who must die.

There are plenty of people out there ready and willing to fulfill the mission that the GQP is sending them on.  Before this is done, grand jurors/jurors/prosecutors/judges (one or more of those groups) will die.  They will be murdered by MAGA terrorists.  Because that's what MAGA is -- a terrorist movement.  Its commonalities with Al Qaeda are damned near 100% (different geography, and different fanatical religious basis, but that's about it).

Our law enforcement, FBI, etc., best be ready with all the thunder they can muster.  Because they're going to have to kill a lot more terrorists before this process is done.

[G650 14273]

14 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

moreso than being a circuit designer or wafer-handling engineer at a semiconductor company

 

I would agree with that. My dad, uncle and cousin are all EEs, dad was an musician, audio engineer then ran engineering for TV stations, uncle worked for Bell Labs, cousin for Lucent and whatever they are called now. All lifelong liberals of the early internet type.

[Brisketexan 105275]

3 minutes ago, F250 said:

Most of Surly develops feral alcohol syndrome during the college football season.

 

I just end up with the thousand yard stare by the third or fourth game.

Although, I mean, since it's Texas football induced in recent years, we should probably call it the "we gave up 1,000 yards in a single game" stare, or something like that. 

I mean, sure, that GI has seen some horrors - death, blood, Japanese atrocities.  But he never had to watch a Tom Herman-coached Texas team.  So, he should count his blessings.

[jimmyjazz 46095]

3 minutes ago, G650 said:

Bell Labs

I know a dozen or so old school NJ Bell Labs engineers -- left of center, every one of them.