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Cairn Horn88

By Cairn Horn88
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HillCountryBevo
HillCountryBevo

Imagine your basis of hating Trump is because of mean tweets, January 6 and “hush money” trial all because liberal media is crooked. Fuck right off. This is my last post in this forum  dumb fucki

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

When you're a court, you just grab their asset, and they let you do it!

HillCountryBevo
HillCountryBevo

Bye bitch. Enjoy living in literal hell if your man Biden is re elected

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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So, here it is.  The most in-depth analysis of the potential immunity "defense" (immunity just is not a defense) that I have yet seen.  https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/the-trump-defense-part-ii-the-presidential-immunity-gambit

It notes that it is a bit of a moonshot, but is as most of these have been, a question of first impression, practically guaranteeing Supreme Court review.  Most depressingly, it accurately notes that while interlocutory appeals in criminal cases are mostly not permitted, there is an exception for immunity.  Because in most cases, immunity not only means the defendant is not liable for the offense (without regard to guilt, see, e.g. TTU v. Leach), but that s/he need not stand trial for it either.

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G650

G650 14263

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48 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

I think that there is a possibility that as Trump continues to weigh his odds, that Jack can offer a deal where he pleads guilty specifically to J6 insurrection (and classified documents obstruction charges) in return for no jail time.  Then Trump can’t run again because of the 14th amendment, and that cancer is behind us.   As much as I would love to see that asshole behind bars, his end of the existential threat to democracy by him running and winning again is far more important to me than to have the satisfaction of getting Justice in seeing him behind bars.

Plus, I think pleading guilty and not being able to run would kill him. 

Edit: but that would be smart. And he’s an idiot. So it ain’t gonna happen.

*idoit

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HornPhD

HornPhD 1368

Posted
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26 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Probation and parole office says, “hey” 

The other attractive part of any plea deal is that he would in fact violate his terms. You are correct. 

He’d find some way to delay being held accountable for ignoring the plea deal 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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Odd thing about federal prison sentences.  The judge determines the number of years, years of community supervision, etc., but has no role in determining how or where the defendant serves that sentence.

The Federal Bureau of Prisons has that mandate.  And, home confinement is considered in the custody of BOP statutorily and otherwise legally.  Some may recall the prisoner petitions to be released from confinement during COVID to avoid contracting it and potentially dying or having severe health consequences.  There was some statutory authorization for that under the CARES Act that permitted the prisoners to make those petitions.  But one of the things that came out of it was clarity on the point that home confinement, where those prisoners were "released to," is legally still incarcerated by BOP, so the judges were not actually shortening their sentences (which they were not authorized to do).

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aggie08

aggie08 21504

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1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

I think that there is a possibility that as Trump continues to weigh his odds, that Jack can offer a deal where he pleads guilty specifically to J6 insurrection (and classified documents obstruction charges) in return for no jail time.  Then Trump can’t run again because of the 14th amendment, and that cancer is behind us.   As much as I would love to see that asshole behind bars, his end of the existential threat to democracy by him running and winning again is far more important to me than to have the satisfaction of getting Justice in seeing him behind bars.

Plus, I think pleading guilty and not being able to run would kill him. 

Edit: but that would be smart. And he’s an idiot. So it ain’t gonna happen.

Also do not want. 

I want him to have real jail time on his hands and get his ass beat down in the election. It's the only way to start healing.

You think the nutjobs are incensed now; wait until "the silent majority" gets their preferred candidate legally removed from running by the "corrupt Dems who knew they couldn't cheat enough to beat him again."

They'll never admit to being duped, regardless, and they'll never shut up...but a blunt reminder that they're the minority in this country might at least push them back to their shanties and dark corners of the Internet.

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16593

Posted
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11 minutes ago, safe sex said:

I am also fine with an awful federal prison

What could be a lot of fun is if his course in New York, Hudson Valley, is seized by the State of New York. He has to do time in Sing Sing and is granted work release to do lawn maintenance on the course that has been converted to a camp for underprivileged children to learn golf.  

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Js1

Js1 85372

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Posted
2 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

What could be a lot of fun is if his course in New York, Hudson Valley, is seized by the State of New York. He has to do time in Sing Sing and is granted work release to do lawn maintenance on the course that has been converted to a camp for underprivileged children to learn golf.  

That was bought by the Obamas I hope 

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

I think that there is a possibility that as Trump continues to weigh his odds, that Jack can offer a deal where he pleads guilty specifically to J6 insurrection (and classified documents obstruction charges) in return for no jail time.  Then Trump can’t run again because of the 14th amendment, and that cancer is behind us.   As much as I would love to see that asshole behind bars, his end of the existential threat to democracy by him running and winning again is far more important to me than to have the satisfaction of getting Justice in seeing him behind bars.

Plus, I think pleading guilty and not being able to run would kill him. 

Edit: but that would be smart. And he’s an idiot. So it ain’t gonna happen.

It has usually worked out well when Trump has been given special treatment.

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30246

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

He needs to be seen as the ultimate loser.

oh, I would envision a string of about 40 statements of actions that shit head took - and lies that asshole said - that he would have to admit to as part of the plea deal.  Including Trump admitting that he lied to his followers about the election being stolen - and that he knew that he lost and went through with this anyway to stay in power. 

Maybe the importance of this would allow the district court to have it live telecasted.    Every time some maggot opened his mouth to claim he was innocent you could just go to video and see him admit to shit.   I would rather have that than a sullen conviction with him protesting his innocence after. 

You could run it on a continuous loop in Times Square for a month. It would be glorious.

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16593

Posted
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6 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

oh, I would envision a string of about 40 statements of actions that shit head took - and lies that asshole said - that he would have to admit to as part of the plea deal.  Including Trump admitting that he lied to his followers about the election being stolen - and that he knew that he lost and went through with this anyway to stay in power. 

Maybe the importance of this would allow the district court to have it live telecasted.    Every time some maggot opened his mouth to claim he was innocent you could just go to video and see him admit to shit.   I would rather have that than a sullen conviction with him protesting his innocence after. 

You could run it on a continuous loop in Times Square for a month. It would be glorious.

Try that in a small town?

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Burt

Burt 4082

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8 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

You could run it on a continuous loop in Times Square for a month. It would be glorious.

Cooter and Cleetus would never see it, though. It needs to be shown on every display TV in every Walmart in the country, and must be viewed in its entirety each time you try to access FoxNews, NewsMax, etc.

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Iowa Horn

Iowa Horn 55

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, texasdago said:

This.  It has to be utter humiliation not that he has any shame or a conscience to feel humiliation.

Put him on an uninhabited island in the Bering Strait so he's close to Mother Russia.  Give him a small but comfortable house with a TV that only gets CNN.  Stock him up periodically with food supplies and toiletries, but he's on his own to cook and clean.  Stock him up with board games, puzzles, books, and whatnot.  Have Secret Service vigorously monitor the island from afar.  Generously allow visitors once a week.  By any other standard, a highly compassionate house arrest.  Way more humiliation than the celebrity status he would enjoy at any actual prison facility.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54246

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BamaATL said:

What could be a lot of fun is if his course in New York, Hudson Valley, is seized by the State of New York. He has to do time in Sing Sing and is granted work release to do lawn maintenance on the course that has been converted to a camp for underprivileged children to learn golf.  

jerk off tv land GIF by #Impastor

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585

Posted
Posted

Trump promoted protests on Jan 6, 2021 for the Electoral Certification, March 2023 for turning himself into court in NYC, and August 2023 for surrendering in Fulton County. Thousands of his supporters showed up for the first protest and a sliver for the subsequent two.

That's because in the interim of the first and last two protests, MAGA authoritarian-centric people went to jail. It wasn't because support amongst his followers significantly wanted and it certainly wasn't because the courts ordered his followers who were apprehended for Jan 6 to go away and shut the fuck up in lieu of jail.

 

 

 

But it just might work for Trump.

 

Screenshot_20230920-201828.png

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Born to Run

Born to Run 6569

Posted
Posted
Narcissist can't handle being ignored. 
 
And we all fall in the trap of giving his bullshit more clicks and more oxygen. Here I am bemoaning "us" doing that whilst doing just that. It's quite the conundrum.
He shouldn't have been a serious candidate the first time, it was all grift and self promotion the first time. Its the only venture he's done well though so he keeps at it and we keep giving it gravitas.
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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45691

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3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, here it is.  The most in-depth analysis of the potential immunity "defense" (immunity just is not a defense) that I have yet seen.  https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/the-trump-defense-part-ii-the-presidential-immunity-gambit

It notes that it is a bit of a moonshot, but is as most of these have been, a question of first impression, practically guaranteeing Supreme Court review.  Most depressingly, it accurately notes that while interlocutory appeals in criminal cases are mostly not permitted, there is an exception for immunity.  Because in most cases, immunity not only means the defendant is not liable for the offense (without regard to guilt, see, e.g. TTU v. Leach), but that s/he need not stand trial for it either.

I understood 9 words of this.  Yet I'm quite certain none of it is good for the continued existence of democracy.

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 76988

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Apropos of nothing, I just watched a show on Netflix about how the Israeli government made a list of people to exterminate after the 1972 Olympic hostage crisis and spent 20 years eliminating them as a vendetta for offenses against their nation.


fafo 

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Born to Run

Born to Run 6569

Posted
Posted
Apropos of nothing, I just watched a show on Netflix about how the Israeli government made a list of people to exterminate after the 1972 Olympic hostage crisis and spent 20 years eliminating them as a vendetta for offenses against their nation.
The problem here is the call is coming from inside the house.
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45971

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I'm not sure there is a more central tenet of American democracy than "no man is above the law".

If we acquiesce and strike a deal, we prove that tenet wrong, and not for the first time.  I'd rather the DOJ prosecute as if he weren't a former POTUS and wealthy NY land baron than compromise.  Failure to convict would prove that some men are indeed above the law.  Success might just prove otherwise.

Edited by jimmyjazz
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not sure there is a more central tenet of American democracy than "no man is above the law".

If we acquiesce and strike a deal, we prove that tenet wrong, and not for the first time.  I'd rather the DOJ prosecute as if he weren't a former POTUS and wealthy NY land baron than compromise.  Failure to convict would prove that some men are indeed above the law.  Success might just prove otherwise.

Well given that 80+++% of criminal cases in the US (98% of federal) are resolved by plea bargain, a "deal," that includes a plea of guilty and conviction, often on more lenient terms than might result after trial, he's be getting the exact same kind of justice as most Americans.

When we talk about the courts being underfunded, this is symptom 1 with a bullet.  There are not enough courts and trial time to try more than about 5% of indicted defendants.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45971

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Posted
7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well given that 80+++% of criminal cases in the US (98% of federal) are resolved by plea bargain, a "deal," that includes a plea of guilty and conviction, often on more lenient terms than might result after trial, he's be getting the exact same kind of justice as most Americans.

You know what I meant.  Jesus Christ, I'm sorry I didn't spell it out in utterly precise terms.

Don't bargain for house arrest.  Go for prison.  That's my angle.  I'm sure you have a really good "well, you know" to counter, and I couldn't give fewer fucks.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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Posted
1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

You know what I meant.  Jesus Christ, I'm sorry I didn't spell it out in utterly precise terms.

Don't bargain for house arrest.  Go for prison.  That's my angle.  I'm sure you have a really good "well, you know" to counter, and I couldn't give fewer fucks.

Actually no I couldn't tell because you didn't say anything like that.  

And, as explained upthread, neither the prosecution nor the judge in the federal system has much or any control over how BOP implements his sentence.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45691

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29 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well given that 80+++% of criminal cases in the US (98% of federal) are resolved by plea bargain, a "deal," that includes a plea of guilty and conviction, often on more lenient terms than might result after trial, he's be getting the exact same kind of justice as most Americans.

When we talk about the courts being underfunded, this is symptom 1 with a bullet.  There are not enough courts and trial time to try more than about 5% of indicted defendants.

I would hope that a former potus ALLEGEDLY trying to bring down our entire system of government and society might rise into that 5%, but I’m just a peon. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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Just now, Biff Tannen said:

I would hope that a former potus ALLEGEDLY trying to bring down our entire system of government and society might rise into that 5%, but I’m just a peon. 

You might think, but that would make him sort of special, too.  Regardless, he won't plead.  He should, but he won't.

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585

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Posted

The plausibility, or at least bandying the idea, that one could plan and incite a violent insurrection to overthrow America's centuries-old democracy and haggle with a DOJ (that I think is safe to say has some fascist elements) to strike a deal that could insanely include no prison time, is at best kicking a can down the road and at worst an invitation. 

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