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[atomheartbevo 89649]

3 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

 It's all true, we have no shared identity,

And that's by design.  

The last time we had a shared identity was after 9/11 - you had thousands of people killed in New York City, and there were young men and women in the backwoods of Kentucky or East Texas or Appalachia signing up to fight for America, who had nothing in common with the folks in NYC except that Americans had been killed.

Now, if a terrorist attack happened in a liberal city, I'm not so sure that Republicans and certain Republican media outlets wouldn't push a "they are libtards, they had it coming" narrative.

[TexasEd 8066]

4 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

I'm curious how much, if any, of his bullshit he actually believes. I wonder what his inner monologue is about this stuff. 

 

He's a sociopathic narcissist.  He believes he has super powers, is being persecuted and can do no wrong all at the same time.

[TwiceHorn 31450]

6 hours ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

We have an unprecedented ability to get accurate information from various media and non-media sources.  We just have to be vigilant and critical in how we process that information.

The blame lies with the voter.  Not 100%, but so much so that nothing else matters.

That's democracy's fatal flaw.

The left is banking on it working, the right is committed to finding an alternative.

Finding an alternative based on the votes of the dumbest, least-informed voters in the history of evar.

[Surly Bevo 24908]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Finding an alternative based on the votes of the dumbest, least-informed voters in the history of evar.

Counterpoint, voters are more informed than ever, but It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.

(side note, beginning of The Big Short uses this quote brilliantly by posting it at the beginning of the movie and then attributing it to Mark Twain, when there is no evidence Twain ever said such a thing) 

[The Dog 44020]

Jack has had enough:

 

[Foosters 17850]

I suggest everyone read the last couple of pages of that. They formulate a set of jury instructions under Cannon's proposal to show how fucking stupid she is. 

[immamac 42839]

I mean...we have entered the realm of stupidity being right over being actually correct. I don't even know what the fuck is going on anymore. 

[NWBuck 8552]

14 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

i started to read hamilton's reynold's pamphlet the other day and saw this in the intro.  the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Lies often detected and refuted are still revived and repeated, in the hope that the refutation may have been forgotten or that the frequency and boldness of accusation may supply the place of truth and proof. 

There's also the "backfire effect", where people hold firmer to their beliefs when confronted by facts that refute them. 

[YGIFS 19450]

ever since law school, I've read my fair share of jury instructions and oppositions thereof.  But this one, my political biases acknowledged, takes the fucking cake.  

And to get all Qanon here, but yeah---insane Lobo rant.  This is one thing Trump did correct.  He actually did play 4-D chess for a hot minute.  He knew he was going to take them after he lost.  He knew the value of them  and sell them to foreign powers.  He put Judge Cannon into perpetual power in the exact jurisdiction where the documents would eventually be discovered.  And she would cover his ass at all costs.  Stephen Miller telegraphed this elegantly.  It's ugly and horrific for our nation, but it's working.  And as tremendous a job as Jack Smith has done and as smart as he is, he's fallen into the one clever trap that Trump's team has done.  Trump had 100 properties and options to store this stuff.  That he did it where Cannon has jurisdiction, despite her woeful incompetence, is a clever play.  And we're all going to have to live underground because of it.   

[Captainant 27655]

10 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

ever since law school, I've read my fair share of jury instructions and oppositions thereof.  But this one, my political biases acknowledged, takes the fucking cake.  

And to get all Qanon here, but yeah---insane Lobo rant.  This is one thing Trump did correct.  He actually did play 4-D chess for a hot minute.  He knew he was going to take them after he lost.  He knew the value of them  and sell them to foreign powers.  He put Judge Cannon into perpetual power in the exact jurisdiction where the documents would eventually be discovered.  And she would cover his ass at all costs.  Stephen Miller telegraphed this elegantly.  It's ugly and horrific for our nation, but it's working.  And as tremendous a job as Jack Smith has done and as smart as he is, he's fallen into the one clever trap that Trump's team has done.  Trump had 100 properties and options to store this stuff.  That he did it where Cannon has jurisdiction, despite her woeful incompetence, is a clever play.  And we're all going to have to live underground because of it.   

What really boils my oats about all this is the constant insistence by the legal community writ large that we MUST let the fascists have their way with the justice system, "otherwise we are just as bad as they are" or some other backhanded defense of the Byzantine and multi-tiered legal system. 

[dcbc 14471]

10 hours ago, NWBuck said:

There's also the "backfire effect", where people hold firmer to their beliefs when confronted by facts that refute them. 

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

ever since law school, I've read my fair share of jury instructions and oppositions thereof.  But this one, my political biases acknowledged, takes the fucking cake.  

And to get all Qanon here, but yeah---insane Lobo rant.  This is one thing Trump did correct.  He actually did play 4-D chess for a hot minute.  He knew he was going to take them after he lost.  He knew the value of them  and sell them to foreign powers.  He put Judge Cannon into perpetual power in the exact jurisdiction where the documents would eventually be discovered.  And she would cover his ass at all costs.  Stephen Miller telegraphed this elegantly.  It's ugly and horrific for our nation, but it's working.  And as tremendous a job as Jack Smith has done and as smart as he is, he's fallen into the one clever trap that Trump's team has done.  Trump had 100 properties and options to store this stuff.  That he did it where Cannon has jurisdiction, despite her woeful incompetence, is a clever play.  And we're all going to have to live underground because of it.   

except that the (or any) Chief Judge of that (or any) district is the one who makes the judicial assignments...

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

11 hours ago, Foosters said:

I suggest everyone read the last couple of pages of that. They formulate a set of jury instructions under Cannon's proposal to show how fucking stupid she is. 

can you just summarize it for us? 🤣

[The Original Greaser Bob 2830]

33 minutes ago, dcbc said:

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

 

[The Dog 44020]

 

[The Dog 44020]

 

[YGIFS 19450]

This has to be fucking Onion article.  Smartest businessman ever sues himself to get more cash to protect himself from other business fraud to avoid more business bankruptcy to help himself get back into office to pardon himself for his own business crimes?  

But our planet is real and not a computer?  Mmkay.  

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

23 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

[C-Man 27214]

14 hours ago, The Dog said:

Jack has had enough:

 

So is Jack Smith getting really close to asking that Cannon get the boot in favor of a new judge in this case?

[dcbc 14471]

4 minutes ago, C-Man said:

So is Jack Smith getting really close to asking that Cannon get the boot in favor of a new judge in this case?

Doubtful.  But he's not going to trial with those jury instructions without rulings from higher courts.

[YGIFS 19450]

^ this.  There's no way in the world even a batshit insane pro-MAGA judge would accept Cannon's bullshit.  That's not the issue.  It's a matter of calendars.  These beautiful, gorgeous calendar.  /DamonSNL

The idea is continue to run him ragged so he dies within the next 10 months.  But in the likely result he remains alive, we are left with the cruel possibility that time is winding down on his legal vulnerability.  And we, as a nation, are winding down with it.  

[The Dog 44020]

14 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Doubtful.  But he's not going to trial with those jury instructions without rulings from higher courts.

he's asking her to fix this or he'll have the 11th circuit do it for her - and it will be the third time they've had to correct her on something like this. 

[dcbc 14471]

4 minutes ago, The Dog said:

he's asking her to fix this or he'll have the 11th circuit do it for her - and it will be the third time they've had to correct her on something like this. 

Correct.  She asked them to submit competing questions.  She's sitting on the issue, wasting time.  He needs to move her off of high-center.  So he's now asking her to make a ruling so that he can have a (presumably) adverse order on which to base his petition for writ of mandamus.  

Edited April 3 by dcbc

[dieucla98 2942]

25 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Correct.  She asked them to submit competing questions.  She's sitting on the issue, wasting time.  He needs to move her off of high-center.  So he's now asking her to make a ruling so that he can have a (presumably) adverse order on which to base his petition for writ of mandamus.  

Now I know how my dog felt watching Lost.

[TwiceHorn 31450]

15 hours ago, Foosters said:

I suggest everyone read the last couple of pages of that. They formulate a set of jury instructions under Cannon's proposal to show how fucking stupid she is. 

That's good shit.

And, I was unsure of the remedies available to the government upon threatened adoption or bad jury instructions.  But that motion-thing cites authority for mandamus being an appropriate and grantable remedy.

And, although I don't think it's very likely in a general case, this is the kind of thing that might actually get her kicked off the case by the 11th Circuit.  Mandamus is premised on the notion that the trial judge has screwed the pooch, nay, fucked the dog and is going to fuck someone hard in the process.  It invokes the supervisory jurisdiction of the appeals court to correct grievous errors in real time, rather than after trial and judgment.  

Edited April 3 by TwiceHorn

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

4 hours ago, dcbc said:

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

And you can’t reason a person out of a position they weren’t reasoned into. 

[locodos 5387]

Somebodies bond got rejected...   oppsie!    I guess he has to upload his financials too

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-forced-reveal-his-finances-save-his-properties-1886609

Documents for Donald Trump's $175 million bond in his New York civil fraud case were rejected by a court because a current financial statement was not included.

On Wednesday, a message on the New York State Supreme Court's electronic filing system showed Trump's "Bond/Undertaking" had been "returned for correction."

New York State Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron ruled in February against Trump; his two eldest sons, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump; and others associated with the Trump Organization. They were accused in a lawsuit from New York Attorney General Letitia James of inflating the former president's net worth and the value of his properties to obtain better loan and insurance terms. Trump has denied all accusations.

On Monday, Trump posted a $175 million bond in the case, ensuring that James does not seize any of his assets or bank accounts during his appeal.

Newsweek reached out to Trump representative Steven Cheung by email for comment about the documents rejection.

He had originally been ordered to pay $454 million in damages after Engoron found him and others liable for misleading lenders. An appeals court granted Trump's request last week to lower his bond amount to $175 million after his lawyers argued that it was a "practical impossibility" to fulfill the original penalty.

Criminal defense attorney Jeffrey K. Levine, who represented former Trump attorney Michael Cohen, posted an explanation on X (formerly Twitter) about the court's rejection message. He included New York County Supreme Court document number 1707, which could explain why Trump's bond filing was returned to his lawyers.

According to Levine's post, Trump will need to share recent financial records in order for his bond to be accepted.

BREAKING NEWS:
Court rejected #TrumpBond filing in #TrumpFraudVerdict for several reasons, 1 of which was #Trump failed to upload his "current financial statement" to the Court [looking forward to read].
175 million reasons why 1 mistake should not have been made, much less 3 ! pic.twitter.com/qk7nLskx5F

— Jeffrey K. Levine 🇺🇸 (@NYadvocateJKL) April 3, 2024
The New York County Supreme Court document he shared read:

"The court has returned the documents listed below for the following reasons: Please include a current financial statement and Power of Attorney. Additionally, please list the name of the Attorney-in-Fact under the signature line on the Undertaking. Please use the 'Refile Document' link for Doc. No. 1707 to resubmit the corrected filing. Thank you and have a great day."

 

[The Dog 44020]

 

[tbone_ 14115]

Somebodies bond got rejected...   oppsie!    I guess he has to upload his financials too
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-forced-reveal-his-finances-save-his-properties-1886609
Documents for Donald Trump's $175 million bond in his New York civil fraud case were rejected by a court because a current financial statement was not included.
On Wednesday, a message on the New York State Supreme Court's electronic filing system showed Trump's "Bond/Undertaking" had been "returned for correction."
New York State Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron ruled in February against Trump; his two eldest sons, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump; and others associated with the Trump Organization. They were accused in a lawsuit from New York Attorney General Letitia James of inflating the former president's net worth and the value of his properties to obtain better loan and insurance terms. Trump has denied all accusations.
On Monday, Trump posted a $175 million bond in the case, ensuring that James does not seize any of his assets or bank accounts during his appeal.
Newsweek reached out to Trump representative Steven Cheung by email for comment about the documents rejection.
He had originally been ordered to pay $454 million in damages after Engoron found him and others liable for misleading lenders. An appeals court granted Trump's request last week to lower his bond amount to $175 million after his lawyers argued that it was a "practical impossibility" to fulfill the original penalty.
Criminal defense attorney Jeffrey K. Levine, who represented former Trump attorney Michael Cohen, posted an explanation on X (formerly Twitter) about the court's rejection message. He included New York County Supreme Court document number 1707, which could explain why Trump's bond filing was returned to his lawyers.
According to Levine's post, Trump will need to share recent financial records in order for his bond to be accepted.
BREAKING NEWS:
Court rejected #TrumpBond filing in #TrumpFraudVerdict for several reasons, 1 of which was #Trump failed to upload his "current financial statement" to the Court [looking forward to read].
175 million reasons why 1 mistake should not have been made, much less 3 ! pic.twitter.com/qk7nLskx5F
— Jeffrey K. Levine (@NYadvocateJKL) April 3, 2024
The New York County Supreme Court document he shared read:
"The court has returned the documents listed below for the following reasons: Please include a current financial statement and Power of Attorney. Additionally, please list the name of the Attorney-in-Fact under the signature line on the Undertaking. Please use the 'Refile Document' link for Doc. No. 1707 to resubmit the corrected filing. Thank you and have a great day."
 

So the guy who got convicted of fraudulently overstating his finances is supposed to now all of a sudden post a legit financial statement huh?

[BamaATL 16593]

1 minute ago, tbone_ said:

So the guy who got convicted of fraudulently overstating his finances is supposed to now all of a sudden post a legit financial statement huh?

No worries, I'm sure they have GAP ace Don Jr. working on it right now.  Should be a real gem.  

[The Dog 44020]

it would be sooo on brand for him to lose everything because he doesn't want everyone to know he's broke.

[Sawbonz 27547]

34 minutes ago, locodos said:

Somebodies bond got rejected...   oppsie!    I guess he has to upload his financials too

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-forced-reveal-his-finances-save-his-properties-1886609

Documents for Donald Trump's $175 million bond in his New York civil fraud case were rejected by a court because a current financial statement was not included.

On Wednesday, a message on the New York State Supreme Court's electronic filing system showed Trump's "Bond/Undertaking" had been "returned for correction."

New York State Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron ruled in February against Trump; his two eldest sons, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump; and others associated with the Trump Organization. They were accused in a lawsuit from New York Attorney General Letitia James of inflating the former president's net worth and the value of his properties to obtain better loan and insurance terms. Trump has denied all accusations.

On Monday, Trump posted a $175 million bond in the case, ensuring that James does not seize any of his assets or bank accounts during his appeal.

Newsweek reached out to Trump representative Steven Cheung by email for comment about the documents rejection.

He had originally been ordered to pay $454 million in damages after Engoron found him and others liable for misleading lenders. An appeals court granted Trump's request last week to lower his bond amount to $175 million after his lawyers argued that it was a "practical impossibility" to fulfill the original penalty.

Criminal defense attorney Jeffrey K. Levine, who represented former Trump attorney Michael Cohen, posted an explanation on X (formerly Twitter) about the court's rejection message. He included New York County Supreme Court document number 1707, which could explain why Trump's bond filing was returned to his lawyers.

According to Levine's post, Trump will need to share recent financial records in order for his bond to be accepted.

BREAKING NEWS:
Court rejected #TrumpBond filing in #TrumpFraudVerdict for several reasons, 1 of which was #Trump failed to upload his "current financial statement" to the Court [looking forward to read].
175 million reasons why 1 mistake should not have been made, much less 3 ! pic.twitter.com/qk7nLskx5F

— Jeffrey K. Levine 🇺🇸 (@NYadvocateJKL) April 3, 2024
The New York County Supreme Court document he shared read:

"The court has returned the documents listed below for the following reasons: Please include a current financial statement and Power of Attorney. Additionally, please list the name of the Attorney-in-Fact under the signature line on the Undertaking. Please use the 'Refile Document' link for Doc. No. 1707 to resubmit the corrected filing. Thank you and have a great day."

 

He’s going to commit fraud on that financial statement isn’t he?

 

can the bond issuer get in trouble for having issued the bond if the financial statement shows that Trump doesn’t have enough equity in the pledged properties to cover the 175 million, or is it simply more financial risk for them?

Edited April 3 by Sawbonz

[Gatorubet 30213]

22 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

So the guy who got convicted of fraudulently overstating his finances is supposed to now all of a sudden post a legit financial statement huh?

“Current financial statement???…which one do you want showing I have how much again..?”

[Rimbo 25921]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

He’s going to commit fraud on that financial statement isn’t he?

[The Dog 44020]

He probably lied about the collateral to get the bond. 

[YGIFS 19450]

I don't ever want to compare the late, great John Candy (whom I love) to Donald Trump...but this is pretty close to how I'm sure Trump handled his bond checking account situation: 

 

[TwiceHorn 31450]

55 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

He’s going to commit fraud on that financial statement isn’t he?

 

can the bond issuer get in trouble for having issued the bond if the financial statement shows that Trump doesn’t have enough equity in the pledged properties to cover the 175 million, or is it simply more financial risk for them?

The bond issuer, unlikely.  Their concern is putting up 145M shekels in Trump's name and getting paid when the bond gets disbursed to the plaintiff.  Now, if for some reason or other the bond didn't turn into 145M on disbursement, they might have a problem.

Trump's financial statement is going to need to indicate that he doesn't have 454M in cash or cash-equivalents lying around and support his arguments for reducing the bond, e.g. that liquidating real estate on short notice is hard and a money-loser.

[Neonmoon 38129]

That filing is great. I feel like this is the legal equivalent of calling someone stupid 

 

[Rimbo 25921]

46 minutes ago, The Dog said:

He probably lied about the collateral to get the bond. 

At what point is he lying, and at what point does he really just not know?

[TwiceHorn 31450]

49 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

That filing is great. I feel like this is the legal equivalent of calling someone stupid 

 

it pretty much is.

[Captainant 27655]

1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

At what point is he lying, and at what point does he really just not know?

Yes. 

[Gatorubet 30213]

8 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

can you just summarize it for us? 🤣

She dumb…

[Gatorubet 30213]

11 hours ago, Captainant said:

What really boils my oats about all this is the constant insistence by the legal community writ large that we MUST let the fascists have their way with the justice system, "otherwise we are just as bad as they are" or some other backhanded defense of the Byzantine and multi-tiered legal system. 

I believe that this is the oats boiled gif

[TwiceHorn 31450]

9 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

can you just summarize it for us? 🤣

After conventional instructions regarding 793, the government proposed the following addition:

I instruct you, however, that, as to a former President, even if he lacks a security clearance, lacks a need to know classified information, and stores information outside of a secure facility, he is authorized to do so if the classified information is contained within a “personal record,” within the meaning of the Presidential Records Act (PRA), a statute that establishes the public ownership of presidential records and ensures the preservation of presidential records for public access after the termination of a President’s term in office.

And this after instructing, in accordance with the PRA, that a "personal record" is:

 all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President, and includes (A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business; (B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and (C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

Trump's lawyers have to be fairly astonished that she actually bit on any of this shit.

Edited April 4 by TwiceHorn

[Js1 85311]

3 hours ago, The Dog said:

He lied

 

[Cairn Horn88 8262]

7 hours ago, C-Man said:

So is Jack Smith getting really close to asking that Cannon get the boot in favor of a new judge in this case?

A (writ of) mandamus is an order from a court to an inferior government official ordering the government official to properly fulfill their official duties or correct an abuse of discretion.
 

Just DO IT!

[Bullneck 19079]

Bringing up Merchant's daughter again.  That seems problematic.

[Cairn Horn88 8262]

6 hours ago, The Dog said:

he's asking her to fix this or he'll have the 11th circuit do it for her - and it will be the third time they've had to correct her on something like this. 

You’re fired!

[Cairn Horn88 8262]

Who is mentoring or coaxing this Judge Cannon?  She’s not smart enough to be delaying and coming up with these slow-downs on her own.

[Sawbonz 27547]

6 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Bringing up Merchant's daughter again.  That seems problematic.

“Loomered”

 

lol