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[Captainant 28380]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

That mechanism of accountability exists only in the figment of our imaginations as it can be easily bought because no one has any fucking backbone

[Laughs in Chief Justice Roberts]

[Brisketexan 106610]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

$45 million dollars a month in swing states. Not as an infrastructure investment. Not as a way to empower people to create economic stimulus, not as a way to create lasting change in a region in dire need. None of those, it's to buy a fucking election and coerce an undereducated, greed filled, envious population to vote for a bought puppet who will whore out the productive part of the population to extract any and all remaining value to give to about 500 people.

If you wanted to perfectly capture how fucked we are, from top to bottom, that paragraph does it.

That said....hell yes.  Fight like hell, fight to the bitter end.  Whether it turns out like the Alamo or siege of Jadotville...or whether it's a turn-the-tide moment like Midway....who the fuck knows?  But we won't even have the chance to find out if we don't fight.  Vote.  Fundraise.  Attack the MAGAs: demoralize them, do all you can to get them to stay home.  Leave it all on the field.

[ConferenceRoom 6210]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If you wanted to perfectly capture how fucked we are, from top to bottom, that paragraph does it.

That said....hell yes.  Fight like hell, fight to the bitter end.  Whether it turns out like the Alamo or siege of Jadotville...or whether it's a turn-the-tide moment like Midway....who the fuck knows?  But we won't even have the chance to find out if we don't fight.  Vote.  Fundraise.  Attack the MAGAs: demoralize them, do all you can to get them to stay home.  Leave it all on the field.

Can we fast forward to the Marianas? 

[dcbc 14641]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If you wanted to perfectly capture how fucked we are, from top to bottom, that paragraph does it.

That said....hell yes.  Fight like hell, fight to the bitter end.  Whether it turns out like the Alamo or siege of Jadotville...or whether it's a turn-the-tide moment like Midway....who the fuck knows?  But we won't even have the chance to find out if we don't fight.  Vote.  Fundraise.  Attack the MAGAs: demoralize them, do all you can to get them to stay home.  Leave it all on the field.

Letcha nuts hang.

[wildcat09 29555]

Does anyone seriously believe that Elon Musk is actually going to fulfill a promise he's made for the first time in his life?

[Brisketexan 106610]

34 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Does anyone seriously believe that Elon Musk is actually going to fulfill a promise he's made for the first time in his life?

Well, it's a promise to do something awful, destructive to the fabric of our society and the future of life on earth.

So...yes.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34078]

36 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Does anyone seriously believe that Elon Musk is actually going to fulfill a promise he's made for the first time in his life?

no. and he is taking a huge risk pissing off his employees too. imagine working for him and knowing he can throw that kind of money away at a fascist traitor. 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1312]

9 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

no. and he is taking a huge risk pissing off his employees too. imagine working for him and knowing he can throw that kind of money away at a fascist traitor. 

Imagine being a major shareholder of Tesla and watching your CEO pledge hundreds of millions of dollars towards a candidate that wants to get rid of EV subsidies and have gas subsidies instead.

[TwiceHorn 31983]

4 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Imagine being a major shareholder of Tesla and watching your CEO pledge hundreds of millions of dollars towards a candidate that wants to get rid of EV subsidies and have gas subsidies instead.

Imagine being a major shareholder of Tesla and approving his fucking pay package, which likely is what emboldens him to say shit like this.

[Longhorn94 2478]

its time to get rid of my S. my wife was thinking of getting an X. but no more. fuck that guy and whatever the fuck he does going forward. he has completely destroyed Tesla's brand and alienated his entire customer base.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34078]

1 minute ago, Longhorn94 said:

its time to get rid of my S. my wife was thinking of getting an X. but no more. fuck that guy and whatever the fuck he does going forward. he has completely destroyed Tesla's brand and alienated his entire customer base.

Teslas are no longer the best out there anyway

[C-Man 27684]

Contrast the glacial speed of Trump's cases with that of Senator Menendez, who was charged, tried and convicted in roughly the amount of time it takes Trump to send a rage tweet from his shitter.

[Captainant 28380]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Contrast the glacial speed of Trump's cases with that of Senator Menendez, who was charged, tried and convicted in roughly the amount of time it takes Trump to send a rage tweet from his shitter.

(D) vs (R)

[GenXer 3324]

22 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

He makes them feel better about being massive pieces of shit, because he, like them, is a massive piece of shit. Like calls to like.

It really is as simple as this.

[TwiceHorn 31983]

3 hours ago, C-Man said:

Contrast the glacial speed of Trump's cases with that of Senator Menendez, who was charged, tried and convicted in roughly the amount of time it takes Trump to send a rage tweet from his shitter.

Point of fact.  The illegal acts of which Menendez was convicted occurred in 2018 and 2019, mostly, and he was already targeted, having been indicted and tried in 2017 for different acts.  Warrants were executed for the most recent criminality in 2022.

The trial itself is relatively straightforward, involved no classified information and no defenses arising from his status as a Senator.

Edited July 16 by TwiceHorn

[tbone_ 14405]

Menendez, as with all woke pansy libs, just isn’t enough of a fighter.

[4th&Five 41902]

 

[Pato del Muerto 53327]

Can’t wait until they say he doesn’t have standing since he is ruled to not have been properly appointed. 

[Js1 86922]

12 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Can’t wait until they say he doesn’t have standing since he is ruled to not have been properly appointed. 

11th Circuit will probably whack her pee-pee.

Wait...

[TexasEd 8248]

3 hours ago, Js1 said:

11th Circuit will probably whack her pee-pee.

Wait...

I think that's what Trump brags about.

[DigglerontheHoof 21516]

On 7/16/2024 at 2:13 PM, C-Man said:

Contrast the glacial speed of Trump's cases with that of Senator Menendez, who was charged, tried and convicted in roughly the amount of time it takes Trump to send a rage tweet from his shitter.

It's like we're already a defacto fascist state. 

[C-Man 27684]

According to this, it's going to be hard to have Cannon removed from the case no matter what 11th court says about this brain-dead dismissal.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/18/politics/aileen-cannon-removal-trump-classified-documents/index.html

Quote

Even after a year of exasperating proceedings that featured several breaks from normal judicial procedure and that culminated in a shock ruling dismissing the classified documents indictment against Donald Trump, prosecutors would face deeply unfavorable odds at getting Judge Aileen Cannon removed from the case if it is ever revived.

In theory, special counsel Jack Smith could ask the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals – which oversees federal appeals from Florida – to reassign the case to a different judge as part of his appeal of Cannon’s ruling to dismiss the charges against the former president.

But several veteran attorneys who practice in that circuit told CNN that the appeals court would be unlikely to grant such a request, even though Cannon’s justification for throwing out the prosecution was widely panned by legal scholars.

“What we have here are adverse rulings and her not resolving the case quickly,” said Jon Sale, a criminal defense attorney in Florida who served on the Watergate prosecution team. “The adverse rulings are not a basis for removal, and timing is in the broad discretion of the trial court.”

That means Smith’s best possible outcome might be that the appeals court reverses Cannon’s ruling invalidating his appointment, the Supreme Court lets that stand and several months from now – assuming Trump is not elected to the White House this November – the criminal case can pick up right where it left off, in front of Cannon, a Trump-appointed judge in Fort Pierce, Florida, who has shown no eagerness to get the proceedings to trial.

“There really just is no record supporting her removal from the case. They just don’t have any malfeasance to point to,” said CNN legal analyst Michael Moore, who served as an Obama-appointed US attorney in Georgia, another state covered by the 11th Circuit. “She’s been careful to not blindly issue rulings … and that has kept the record really shallow when looking for a removal rationale.”

Cannon’s conclusion – that Congress had not given Attorney General Merrick Garland the power to appoint a special counsel like Smith and that, furthermore, Smith’s office was funded in an unlawful fashion – went against rulings from federal district and appellate judges across the country that have upheld the Justice Department’s use of other special counsels.

It also was the capstone of her highly scrutinized handling of the historic Trump case, in which she was known to drag out the pretrial proceedings, entertain long-shot legal theories offered by the former president and issue cumbersome orders that flummoxed lawyers on both sides of the case.

Well before Monday’s ruling, outside cheerleaders of the special counsel, including many Trump critics, were calling on Smith to seek Cannon’s removal from the case. But this is the first real opportunity to ask for the intervention of the 11th Circuit.

That appeals court, while conservative, previously tore apart Cannon’s handling of a 2022 lawsuit brought by Trump that sought to undermine the documents investigation, overturning her decision to appoint a “special master” to review the materials seized from Mar-a-Lago.

Justice Clarence Thomas gives Cannon additional cover

Making the calculus even more difficult for Smith is that he is appealing a ruling of Cannon’s that was meticulously written and thoroughly thought through and put forward a legal rationale that, just this month, was similarly laid out by a sitting Supreme Court justice.

At 93 pages, the new opinion was far more in depth and comprehensive than the more surface-level rulings Cannon had previously issued that showed sympathy to Trump’s arguments while rejecting his other bids to throw out the case.

“I don’t think this rises to the level of an order that the court would necessitate reassignment to another judge,” said Jon May, a Florida criminal defense attorney who called Cannon’s opinion dismissing the case “wrong” but “not bonkers.”’

Cannon’s ruling followed arguments laid out by Justice Clarence Thomas in a concurrence he wrote in the Supreme Court’s presidential immunity case, in which the conservative majority said that Trump had some immunity in Smith’s separate case alleging 2020 election subversion.

None of Thomas’ eight colleagues signed on to his solo concurring opinion, as Smith noted in court filings last week arguing to Cannon that the concurrence should not bear on the classified documents case.

Thomas, it’s worth noting, oversees emergency matters arising out of the 11th Circuit – something that appellate court will be “mindful” of when it handles Smith’s appeal, according to CNN legal analyst Michael Moore.

“Abuse of discretion is a typical appellate standard of review,” Moore said, referring to the standard the appeals court would likely use to reverse Cannon’s dismissal ruling, “but not a reason for removal.”

Little precedent to look at

Cannon has no doubt been antagonistic toward the special counsel’s classified documents case.

She’s taken swipes at the Smith team in previous rulings and suggested that fringe Trump theories that would hamstring the prosecution could play a role in an eventual trial. The way she has managed her docket has kept the case at a snail’s pace, playing into Trump’s strategy of delay.

However, before Monday, her decisions on major motions mostly sided with the prosecutors – even as she weaved in jabs at their tactics – and she had avoided ruling on some of the most contentious issues in the case.

While Cannon’s approach to the case has attracted criticism, the current circumstances don’t resemble past scenarios that have seen trial judges reassigned by the 11th Circuit.

“This situation is so exceedingly rare, you don’t really have precedent to look at,” May said. “You have plenty of cases where there is concern for the defendant, and there’s egregious orders and egregious behavior.”

On the occasions that a judge has been removed from a case by the 11th Circuit, it’s often because the judge has heard evidence or a sentencing recommendation that shouldn’t have been heard, according to Don Samuel, a criminal defense attorney in Georgia who wrote an in-depth book about the 11th Circuit’s criminal law jurisprudence. Or it has happened when the judge has “repeatedly” refused to comply with the appeals court’s instructions on a particular issue in a case, he said.

“But reassignment just because the district judge made an erroneous decision?” Samuel said. “That is virtually unheard of.”

 

[immamac 44197]

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

According to this, it's going to be hard to have Cannon removed from the case no matter what 11th court says about this brain-dead dismissal.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/18/politics/aileen-cannon-removal-trump-classified-documents/index.html

 

So the cool part about this is there will be literally nothing to appeal when they get the conviction. 

[C-Man 27684]

Just now, immamac said:

So the cool part about this is there will be literally nothing to appeal when they get the conviction. 

I'd put the chances of conviction at less than 25% at this point. That might be high too. This case goes away forever if Trump wins and seems he's pegged around 65% or higher to win in November today. Lot can change between now and then, of course, but he has to lose that election AND then you're facing an antagonistic judge in the documents case.

[jimmyjazz 46964]

I still think Biden should pick a half dozen or so of those documents, declassify them, and publish them for everyone to see.  It would have to be done with some finesse -- nothing that would compromise national security but alarming enough to say "and these were the benign cases".

[DigglerontheHoof 21516]

Biden and the Dems have no clue how to play hardball. 

[Js1 86922]

47 minutes ago, C-Man said:

“I don’t think this rises to the level of an order that the court would necessitate reassignment to another judge,” said Jon May, a Florida criminal defense attorney who called Cannon’s opinion dismissing the case “wrong” but “not bonkers.”’

No it was bonkers. Jon May sounds like an idiot. 

[TwiceHorn 31983]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

According to this, it's going to be hard to have Cannon removed from the case no matter what 11th court says about this brain-dead dismissal.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/18/politics/aileen-cannon-removal-trump-classified-documents/index.html

 

That is true.  But, that's not the only ground under which they could remand it to a different judge.  Two pretty bad rulings, some questionable but not unlawful docket management, her inexperience, the literally thousands of complaints the 11th Circuit Judicial Conference has received about her (most not actionable) and the fact that even other conservative district judges urged her to give it to another judge.  That all spells "the interest of justice."

It's far from a slam dunk, but it's more possible that it may initially seem.

And the ruling is heading pretty hard toward bonkers, a serious misapprehension of the Appointments Clause.

Edited July 18 by TwiceHorn

[Gatorubet 30626]

5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I still think Biden should pick a half dozen or so of those documents, declassify them, and publish them for everyone to see.  It would have to be done with some finesse -- nothing that would compromise national security but alarming enough to say "and these were the benign cases".

if Lincoln can suspend habeas corpus, then uncle joe should do the same thing and send Trump to Gitmo

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19279]

On 7/16/2024 at 9:48 AM, wildcat09 said:

How about instead of whining about whatever you think “the American public” thinks, you pussies cowboy the fuck up and start actually helping? The election is a fucking coinflip right now and there’s plenty of time left to remind people who haven’t been paying much attention the last few years why Trump sucks so goddamned much. 

Look around the world right now. The right has collapsed in the UK, just got repudiated by normies in France, and have faced significant electoral setbacks recently in Turkey and India. They’re not invincible. They’re fucking losers who win when their opposition splits and stays home because they think the right can’t be stopped. But one way or another the fascists will lose, because the first and last thing every fascist is is a fucking loser, but it’ll be a lot fucking easier to beat these assholes at the ballot box than in a civil war.  
 

Jesus fucking Christ, act like goddamned men.

Not a man. 

I do my part, but as a woman with the Handmaid's Tale more than a non-zero chance, I also have to protect myself.

[troph 25088]

29 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Not a man. 

I do my part, but as a woman with the Handmaid's Tale more than a non-zero chance, I also have to protect myself.

yeah some of us have little choice when it get's rough, we are first in line for the harm. you can be tougher than just about anyone and still run and hide is at times the best strategy. I'm pretty sure if Trump wins, I'm going dark. I'd rather not, but I think minimizing my online presence, all but eliminating my online speech and holding on for dear life until we can move is the only smart strategy if protect my family is priority number 1.

[troph 25088]

and in case that sounded self-focused (it was intended to be inclusive), I can't see how women who can still have children, and the men who love them, can stay in states like Texas. and kids? GTFO.

Edited July 18 by troph

[Mo Horn 8933]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

and in case that sounded self-focused (it was intended to be inclusive), I can't see how women who can still have children, and the men who love them, can stay in states like Texas. and kids? GTFO.

Our son and DIL live in Texas and the reason we will never have grandchildren. They will not chance it. 

Edited July 18 by Mo Horn

[mchookem 16727]

i've talked before about how my college-age niece had to basically fight her 'doctor' (north Texas) to get an iud, he kept coming up with excuses, tests, etc. for NINE MONTHS before she finally told him if he wouldn't do it she'd go to another doctor. serious bullshit!

so now...she's planning a hysterectomy when she ages out of it. for all the reasons. 

i don't know how practical that is, i doubt you can get one on demand (especially in a few years, the direction we're headed 😐), and there's a possibility she'll feel differently once she hits 30. but right now... she thinks we're all fucked and she wants no part of it 😕

[Captainant 28380]

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

That is true.  But, that's not the only ground under which they could remand it to a different judge.  Two pretty bad rulings, some questionable but not unlawful docket management, her inexperience, the literally thousands of complaints the 11th Circuit Judicial Conference has received about her (most not actionable) and the fact that even other conservative district judges urged her to give it to another judge.  That all spells "the interest of justice."

It's far from a slam dunk, but it's more possible that it may initially seem.

And the ruling is heading pretty hard toward bonkers, a serious misapprehension of the Appointments Clause.

[TwiceHorn 31983]

2 hours ago, mchookem said:

i've talked before about how my college-age niece had to basically fight her 'doctor' (north Texas) to get an iud, he kept coming up with excuses, tests, etc. for NINE MONTHS before she finally told him if he wouldn't do it she'd go to another doctor. serious bullshit!

so now...she's planning a hysterectomy when she ages out of it. for all the reasons. 

i don't know how practical that is, i doubt you can get one on demand (especially in a few years, the direction we're headed 😐), and there's a possibility she'll feel differently once she hits 30. but right now... she thinks we're all fucked and she wants no part of it 😕

Was that because of politics or the kind of nasty history of IUDs?

[mchookem 16727]

unclear, but i know several others that got one pretty easily. honestly it could have just been financial, i.e., milking her insurance for all sorts of unnecessary things? who knows...bottom line, she felt very minimized and unheard by her doctor. 

[Pato del Muerto 53327]

Doesn’t a full hysterectomy affect female hormones?  And is serious surgery that isn’t performed as birth control?

[TwiceHorn 31983]

11 minutes ago, mchookem said:

unclear, but i know several others that got one pretty easily. honestly it could have just been financial, i.e., milking her insurance for all sorts of unnecessary things? who knows...bottom line, she felt very minimized and unheard by her doctor. 

I get it.  I'm a dude of a certain age, so lack some sensitivity to it.  Apparently, only the Dalkon Shield was problematic (but very much so), but to my mind IUDs have a bit of a medical stigma.  The consensus and history is that they're fine, but if your niece's doc had the misfortune of prescribing some Dalkon Shields, he may be a permanent skeptic.

[mchookem 16727]

24 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Doesn’t a full hysterectomy affect female hormones?  And is serious surgery that isn’t performed as birth control?

yes and yes. i told her it's unlikely she'll be able to just get it if she doesn't have some actual issue,  endometriosis or something. i just shared it in context of this thread and the...despair a lot of young women are experiencing. it's real. 

[safe sex 11913]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I get it.  I'm a dude of a certain age, so lack some sensitivity to it.  Apparently, only the Dalkon Shield was problematic (but very much so), but to my mind IUDs have a bit of a medical stigma.  The consensus and history is that they're fine, but if your niece's doc had the misfortune of prescribing some Dalkon Shields, he may be a permanent skeptic.

If the doctor has specific concerns about a method of birth control, then the doctor should express those concerns and why they should outweigh the patient's preference.

[ultimaton 2985]

4 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Doesn’t a full hysterectomy affect female hormones?  And is serious surgery that isn’t performed as birth control?

Yes, and there can be complications with organ prolapse too. 

[C-Man 27684]

This been discussed?

https://www.newsweek.com/clarence-thomas-wrote-note-intended-aileen-cannon-glenn-kirschner-1927980

Speaking on his YouTube channel on Friday, Kirschner, a former assistant U.S. attorney and frequent Trump critic, pointed towards a note that Thomas had written in his separate concurrence regarding the immunity ruling.

"Clarence Thomas wrote a little note that he obviously intended for Judge Cannon saying, 'Hey judge Cannon, you might want to look into the appointment of special counsel thing. I think maybe there's an issue there that could help Donald Trump.' In substance that's what Clarence Thomas communicated to judge Cannon," Kirschner said.

[Satchel 6982]

7 minutes ago, C-Man said:

This been discussed?

https://www.newsweek.com/clarence-thomas-wrote-note-intended-aileen-cannon-glenn-kirschner-1927980

 

Yep. There is talk about court collusion up thread.

[tx 3 putt 78461]

 

[Biff Tannen 46060]

13 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

Easy way to avoid more legal costs.  Dismiss the case.

[TwiceHorn 31983]

16 hours ago, Satchel said:

Yep. There is talk about court collusion up thread.

By the same token, Barrett actually gave Chutkan something of a roadmap to navigate the official/unofficial conduct thing that won't be immediately reversed by the majority.

26 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Easy way to avoid more legal costs.  Dismiss the case.

An appeal is going to cost at least as much as continued pretrial proceedings (less than a trial and the last few weeks up to it).

[Biff Tannen 46060]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

An appeal is going to cost at least as much as continued pretrial proceedings (less than a trial and the last few weeks up to it).

Do both sides have to pay for the appeals process?  Seems like that burden should fall to the one appealing, no?

[TwiceHorn 31983]

8 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Do both sides have to pay for the appeals process?  Seems like that burden should fall to the one appealing, no?

Both sides have to file a brief, that costs attorneys fees.  At this level, probably 25-50k if you're paying your lawyer.

[Captainant 28380]

16 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

By the same token, Barrett actually gave Chutkan something of a roadmap to navigate the official/unofficial conduct thing that won't be immediately reversed by the majority.

Well the majority has been so consistent sticking to precedent and following the guidance of past rulings, so there's absolutely nothing to worry about right?