Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty

[TwiceHorn 31184]

6 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Although that's been standard shit for Trump in civil investigations, an actual federal criminal case makes it much more likely an attorney gets called on that and actually gets in trouble.  At minimum gets kicked off the case.

In a civil case with a bad joint representation, it usually only comes back to haunt the lawyer if some bad result happens for the "jointly represented."  Then a malpractice case and grievance may follow.  If no bad result occurs, then no one is ever going to look at it, most likely. 

See for instance that foofaraw in Atlanta over the fake electors.  Prosecutors routinely question representation arrangements that may be unethical, because it might jeopardize their conviction.

Yet another way in which this is a whole different world for Trump.

Edited June 14, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[tx 3 putt 76159]

Trump’s secret service detail are hand picked loyalist (and guys that bang melenia). They’re not stopping him if he decides to skip the country 

[The Dog 43771]

 

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/06/trump-indictment-florida-new-jersey-classified/674393/

 

Quote

Even before last Thursday’s indictment in United States v. Donald Trump, public speculation swirled about whether the former president had taken classified documents not just to Mar-a-Lago but also to his residence and golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. The indictment answered that question with a bang while presenting a new puzzle about why Trump isn’t facing even steeper charges.

According to the Justice Department and a taped recording of the former president, Trump took classified records from Mar-a-Lago to Bedminster, where he showed off the contents of such records to others. The indictment alleges that Trump showed a map to a political ally and also showed a writer and a publisher a secret military plan to attack Iran. These two episodes were arguably the most egregious allegations of criminal wrongdoing mentioned in the indictment; they allege not just the improper retention of our nation’s most highly classified information, but the intentional communication of such information.

 

Quote

But these two allegations raise a question: Why did Special Counsel Jack Smith charge Trump with illegal retention of classified documents but not with dissemination of such materials? And is that decision final, or could dissemination charges still be in the works?

 

 

Quote

Trump’s Bedminster conduct, as described in the indictment, appears to fit the description of two federal offenses designed to keep America’s national-security secrets safe. One makes it a crime to intentionally communicate national-defense information to people not authorized to receive it, and the other makes it a crime to intentionally disclose classified information to the same. These are more serious crimes than willful retention of such documents, which is done to prevent possible leakage. Deliberate dissemination is the leakage itself.

 

 

Spoiler

The Justice Manual, the Department of Justice’s guidebook on criminal procedure, as well as guidance from the attorney general’s office, advises prosecutors to give strong consideration to charges of dissemination before making them. According to the manual, once a determination is made that an indictment is warranted, “the prosecutor must select the most appropriate charges,” and “ordinarily, those charges will include the most serious offense that is encompassed by the defendant’s conduct and that is likely to result in a sustainable conviction.” Attorney General Merrick Garland has indicated that the prosecutor can consider a number of factors in deciding whether to bring the most serious charges.

Smith appears to have taken a cautious, narrow approach. Even though the indictment describes alleged dissemination and disclosure of national-security secrets, the indictment did not charge Trump with those offenses.

One possible explanation for his decision: venue. The Constitution requires prosecutors to bring charges in the location—or venue—where the alleged criminal conduct took place. Justice Department prosecutors could not necessarily bring charges against Trump in Miami for alleged criminal conduct that occurred in another state, in this case New Jersey. But the absence of such charges in the indictment raises the intriguing possibility of another indictment to come, in a jurisdiction, no less, with a pool of jurors and judges more favorable to the government’s case against Trump.

The government could make a solid argument that Florida is, in fact, an appropriate location to bring the charges for dissemination at Bedminster. “Any offense against the United States begun in one district and completed in another,” according to a congressional statute, may be “prosecuted in any district in which such offense was begun, continued, or completed.” Just last year, the Court of Appeals with jurisdiction over Florida applied that statute in an analogous situation, holding that a defendant charged with storing drugs in Alabama and transporting them to Tennessee for distribution could be prosecuted in Alabama for drug distribution.

But perhaps Smith did not want to count on the Supreme Court to recognize Florida as an appropriate venue. Judges have not issued definitive rulings on how the law of venue applies to the national-security statutes under which Trump has been charged. Plus, any creative law student—or judicial clerk fresh out of law school—could find ways to distinguish the conspiracy to possess and sell drugs in another state from the crime of disclosure of classified information. Smith might have reasoned that the government could lose on the issue of venue for any dissemination charges it tried in a Florida court. And that could potentially be fatal to ever bringing those charges even in the place that’s an obvious venue option: New Jersey.

For example, with regard to Trump’s alleged disclosure of U.S. attack plans against Iran, it is possible, based on the publicly available facts, that Trump shared the number of U.S. troops required to attack Iran, but not the actual document outlining the attack plans. That would not make his conduct any less criminal—the law specifically prohibits verbal disclosure of such information, not just documents. But if the alleged crime was verbal communication, that crime arguably did not “commence” in Florida with the physical transportation of boxes to New Jersey.

Another possible explanation for why Smith didn’t charge Trump for the more serious offenses has to do with the range of prison time the defendant could be subject to. A conviction for any of the 31 counts Trump faces under the Espionage Act for retention of national-defense information would already yield the maximum penalty available under the federal sentencing guidelines. That is regardless of whether additional counts for dissemination are included. In evaluating a proper sentence, the judge could still take into account the two alleged instances of dissemination—there is no need for the prosecutors to obtain separate convictions on those counts for that conduct to be considered in the sentencing.

 

The legal uncertainties that surround bringing charges in Florida for dissemination of national-security secrets in Bedminster leaves open the possibility that charges might yet be brought in New Jersey—a backup plan of sorts for Smith. If Aileen Cannon, the Florida judge assigned to the case, were to seek to pocket-veto the charges before her by, say, scheduling the trial for after the 2024 presidential election, the special counsel would be able to sidestep her tactic by proceeding with charges in New Jersey.

In fact, the Miami indictment conspicuously excludes many facts surrounding Trump’s actions in Bedminster: what boxes were taken there, what they contained, how they were kept at the golf club. This silence suggests that there might be more to come from the famously hard-charging Smith and his team of prosecutors, who put together an otherwise highly detailed 49-page indictment.

Smith might still decide against bringing a separate indictment for dissemination, because such a move could be painted as overcharging. The government usually tries to avoid being seen as piling on, at least in such a high-profile matter. But if Cannon acts consistently with her prior Trump-friendly rulings, which were twice found by unanimous panels of conservative appellate judges to be both factually and legally flawed, Smith might go looking for another way to ensure accountability—and another venue where he could do so.

 

 

[chainsaw 9831]

It's because he's Guamanian, isn't it?

[Native Horn 3484]

32 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Yea. To be clear, I was genuinely taking your word. I know they do law enforcement for the Dept of Treasury, but I wasn't sure of the special considerations for security details.

 

Doesn't really matter, but Secret Service is part of the Department of Homeland Security, and has been for about twenty years.

[otisdog 365]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Strong rope. Climbing rope. 

Nope...climbing rope is dynamic. You want a static rope so that it snaps his neck.

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

2 minutes ago, otisdog said:

Nope...climbing rope is dynamic. You want a static rope so that it snaps his neck.

Climbing rope is not made for shock loads. It’s as likely to snap as stretch under that condition.  And it can’t even stretch very much at the length required for this application. 

[The Dog 43771]

 

[RDCanecutter 26239]

5 hours ago, G650 said:

I realize people want this to be true. The whole "its a cult" and whatnot. But the fact is a plurality of the country are shitty people. The genie isn't going back in the bottle anytime soon. One charismatic dictator is all it takes.

There have always been Wallace voters, and there will always be a Wallace.

1 hour ago, BamaATL said:

All this being said, the Republican Party currently has no real plan to attract new voters, they just rehash the same old bullshit to target these three groups.  Well, if these 3 groups are shrinking, that bodes well for the future.  

Luckily the Republicans are still scared of that Che poster they saw in a college dorm. Otherwise they'd realize that despite the revolutions, authoritarianism has been the favorite ice cream flavor in Latin America for 500 years. But dammit that lady spoke Spanish to her mom in Walmart.

Edited June 14, 2023 by RDCanecutter
jijo.

[texastough 1128]

5 minutes ago, otisdog said:

Nope...climbing rope is dynamic. You want a static rope so that it snaps his neck.

dragging it out for a while would work too

[DigglerontheHoof 21022]

2 minutes ago, texastough said:

dragging it out for a while would work too

[The Dog 43771]

wanna know why he doesn't have restrictions?

he can't keep his mouth shut:

 

[cactusflinthead 27593]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/06/14/trump-pardon-promise-republican-candidates-2024/70318706007/

[Red Five 40593]

His public defense is basically the Colonel Jessup "You're god damn right I did" admission in court. It's really weird. Good luck, Dotard. 

[otisdog 365]

14 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Climbing rope is not made for shock loads. It’s as likely to snap as stretch under that condition.  And it can’t even stretch very much at the length required for this application. 

Climbing rope is designed and made to take shock loads.

Fuck trump.

 

 

[C-Man 26992]

This is an entertaining read: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1667248343255220227.html?mibextid=Zxz2cZ&fbclid=IwAR2NlNYE3Sl6FBnBb_hB30lKq31eOdFHLY9e6YbvXbR4RXHUCSBAkCy9f-c

Quote

I LITERALLY stopped working on my memo so I could read this indictment.

I am on page 24 and JESUS LUPITA NYONG'O CHRIST.

HOW this man still has the capacity to shock me after everything that's happened, i'll never know.

but I am sitting here *STUNNED*. 

I'll be honest--
b/c i really DO lean into naivete sometimes. it's difficult for me to assume the worst from ppl, even when they have done all of the worst things.

so this wholllllle time, i've been thinking, "wonder why he didn't give back those docs. he's probably lost them." 

and also, "this dingus just grabbed shit from the white house b/c he's too stupid to know he couldn't. he probably doesn't even realize what he has."

lol.

nooooooooooooooooooooope. noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope. 

this was a DELIBERATE and CONCERTED effort to remove the most sensitive docs the country has, and KEEP them.........and then SHOW THEM TO PPL AT HIS LEISURE WHILE *ACKNOWLEDGING* THAT HE WAS NEITHER SUPPOSED TO HAVE THEM OR SHOW THEM.... 

he haphazardly stored the docs ANY DAMNED WHERE........INCLUDING.........IN A GODDAMNED BATHROOM SHOWER.......they were chucked to some random room in Mar a lago, and occasionally the boxes----because there were SOOOOOOOOO MANY--would tumble down...... 

and TOP SECRET DOCUMENTS.........DOCUMENTS HAVING TO DO WITH DEFENSE PLANS, MILITARY CAMPAIGNS, NUKES, YOU NAME IT.....DOCUMENTS *CLEARLY MARKED* "TOP SECRET" AND "SECRET" AND "CONFIDENTIAL" AND TWO OTHER DESIGNATIONS I'D NEVER EVEN HEARD OF BEFORE TODAY...BUT WHICH APPARENTLY 

MEAN SUPER DUPER DUPER DOUBLE PINKY SWEARSIES REALSIES SECRET......WOULD JUST............
SPILL OUT ONTO THE GD FLOOR........AND LIE THERE.........EXPOSED FOR ALL TO SEE.........JUST.....NAKED AND BARING ALL TO THE WORLD LIKE A NATIONAL SECURITY FULL MONTY. 

AND AS IF *THAT* WEREN'T ENOUGH.....the Archives asked this MF fifty-leven times to give all this stuff back. and 45 would be all, "I GAVE YOU EVERYTHING I GOT. DAMN. SHIT. THERE'S NOTHING HERE."

THEN HE WOULD HAVE HIS AIDES MOVE THE BOXES...... 

AND HE WOULD TRAVELLLLLLLLLLLLL WITHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THE BOXESSSSSSSSSSSS.

and some member of his family....ivanka or melania or lara......ALSO knew he had the boxes......

but he would TRAVEL WITHHHHHHH THEM. BECAUSE THAT WAS--PRESUMABLY--the ONLY WAY TO MAKE SURE HE KEPT THEM. 

BUT WHAT'S WILDER STILL............IS THAT THIS MF HAD LAWYERS WHO WERE LIKE, "Fam. For serious. You need to turn in ANYTHING that you have that is a file and belongs to the US Government. DEAD. ASS." 

and 45 was all...TO THE LAWYERS.......TO THESE OFFICERS OF THE COURT...."couldn't y'all just tell them there's nothing here?" and "wouldn't it be better if we just.....kinda like.....burned all this shit...you know....if it were here....*hypothetically*." 

and one lawyer was all.......

then he was like, "you got this subpoena on may 11. i'm coming through on the first of the month to run through that WHOLE SHIT...and i'ma make SURE *NOTHING* that belongs to THESE UNITED ASS STATES is in that garish monstrosity you pretend is a house." 

SO 45 has his body man and his aides MOVE THE BOXES AGAIN. LIKE JUST..........SCORES OF BOXES........HE HAS THEM MOVE A GAZILLION BOXES AGAIN.......TO HIDE THEM FROM.......................HIS *LAWYERS*.   

AND THENNNNNNNNNNNNN....THE NIGHT BEFORE THE DAY HIS LAWYER IS SUPPOSED TO COME THROUGH......HE CALLED HIM.......AND WAS LIKE, "Aye, dawg. You still coming tomorrow? I was sitting here talking to the homies and like...we don't know why you're coming. Why are you coming?" 

and the lawyer was like, (*presumably deep sigh here*), "I ALREADY TOLD YOU. I'm coming through to move through the house and make sure i can tell them we complied with the subpoena. i'm gonna make sure you don't have anything you're not supposed to. Okay?" 

and 45 is like, "OHHHHHHHHH! Right. Cool. Coolcoolcoolcool....cool. Come on through, then. I'll see you tomorrow."

Then he hung up.

AND HAD HIS BODYMAN MOVE MORE BOXES. 

I have to keep reading. but what i really need you to know....is that whoever drafted this is giving us NEXT LEVEL #caliber dorian corey shade.

because SPRINKLED THROUGHOUT.....are excerpts from quotes that donald trump gave the press during campaigns and his presidency- 

boasting about how good he'd be at keeping this country's secrets safe...how we needed a return to discretion and how ppl who violated national security laws and breached the protections afforded our most sensitive docs needed to be punished with the 

full might of the law.

for real.

for real.

GASP. 

ch-

the lawyer went to mar a lago, and 45 and his aides were just sitting there, like, "oh yeah. this guy wants to make sure we've turned all the stuff in. somebody take him back to the room and make sure he's comfortable." 

the lawyer goes, looks around....and finds 38 things that were top secret.

and, honest to God....i think they left that stuff there deliberately so that it wouldn't look like they'd cleaned house. 

so the lawyer packages up what's left......goes back out, and 45 has the AUGODDAMNEDDACITY TO BE LIKE, "Wassup? How are we lookin'?"

HAND TO GOD, this man says, "Is it good? is it bad?"

AS THOUGH HE HADN'T DIRECTED EVERYONE TO CLEAN HOUSE. 

THEN when the lawyer shrugs and indicates that there's still some chester copperpot level shit in the box he's carrying, 45 MIMES taking out the secret stuff and disposing of it.....
MIMES.

WITH HIS WEE HANDS. 

the lawyer apparently ignores it, and is like, "okay. i'm gonna being in last lawyer and i'm gonna tell her that i went all the way through everything you said you had. then i'm gonna tell her that what i'm holding RIGHT NOW is the last of ANYthing that you have and 

aren't supposed to. SO IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS HOUSE, TELL ME NOW. CAUSE SHE'S COMING WITH AN OFFICIAL ASS PAPER THAT I AM TENDERING TO THE FEDS....AND WE DON'T LIE TO THE FEDS...SO IS THIS IT, DONALD?" 

and 45 is like, "on my mama."

so the lawyer brings the other lawyer in, and is like, "this is it. this is everything. so you can safely put your good name and your good Bar ID number on this super official sworn statement. b/c 45 said this is it and we've complied." 

let me just stop for a moment, right here and tell you that i would *literally* die first...

i would ****literally**** ****DIE**** before i relied on that man's representations.

i'd lie down in the center of my living room floor- 

cover myself up in a blanket-
rollllllllllllllllll from wall to wall, back and forth, until i was Dexter secure in the bedding-

and then will my body to cease breathing...

before i'd put MY NAME on some shit off the STRENGTH of Donald Gargamel John Trump's word. 

so the lawyers turned that weak ass certification in.......and told the NATIONAL ARCHIVES RECORDS ADMINISTRATION.........THE ENTITY CHARGED WITH THE TASK OF MAINTAINING OUR COLLECTIVE MEMORY AS A NATION.......

"that's all we got." 

AS IF THIS FEDERAL AGENCY.........WHOSE *CHIEF* RESPONSIBILITY IS *LITERALLY* TO *KEEP* THINGS......WOULDN'T KNOW.......THIS VERITABLE MOUNTAIN OF DOCUMENTS........WAS MISSING. 

the feds got that certification back and looked at that shit like   

then they subpoenaed video surveillance from Mar a Lago......

BECAUSE OF COURSE.

and what do they see?

the bodyman and the aides NOT ONLY MOVING BOXES........but MOVING BOXES ONTO A PLANE...
AND THEN THAT PLANE TAKING OFF......WITH TRUMP IN TOW.......FLYING AWAY FOR THE SUMMER 

b/c he wanted the boxes with him at his vacation house.

lol..........soooooooooooooooooooo the DOJ sent them boys in.......

and the windbreakers searched that stucco, Mediterranean-style abomination from top to bottom......

and found 100+ more protected docs. 

your.
boy.
is.
a.
CLOWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN. 

there's a breakdown of the stuff they found.

my.
word.

every time i see the words "concerning military capabilities of the united states," "concerning nuclear weaponry of the united states"-- i just....

WOW.

WOW.
WOW.
WOW. 

this is the bodyman.

if the past is indeed prologue, and we draw from my favorite episode in american history ever, brought to us courtesy of messrs. mitchell, haldeman, ehrlichman, colson, hunt, and liddy-

HE goes DIRECTLY to jail, and 45....well...doesn't.

I genuinely hope, that if, over the course of these twitter years, you have taken but ONE THING from EVERYTHING I've EVER told you...

It's to not lie to the Feds.

DO NOT LIE TO THE FEDS.

Just decline the interview and get indicted on whatever they've got. 

You can beg for grace later. There are literally mechanisms in place for ppl who come clean and are helpful to them down the line.

Just decline the interview.

But DO. NOT. LIE. 

This dude is the valedictorian of jackasses.

NOT THIS SUZANNE SUGARBAKER-STYLE CONFUSED DENIAL.

anyway, that's it.

in summation,

everything is awful. 

 

[NAVY 6738]

1 hour ago, Horndog said:

Does anyone have insight into whether dotard and Nauta will be tried together or separately? Or is that something to be determined later? 

The Nardotard trial

has a ring to it 

[RomaVicta 29756]

25 minutes ago, Native Horn said:

Doesn't really matter, but Secret Service is part of the Department of Homeland Security, and has been for about twenty years.

How did I get left off that memo? Get me an admin in here to scream at.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

33 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Another possible explanation for why Smith didn’t charge Trump for the more serious offenses has to do with the range of prison time the defendant could be subject to. A conviction for any of the 31 counts Trump faces under the Espionage Act for retention of national-defense information would already yield the maximum penalty available under the federal sentencing guidelines. That is regardless of whether additional counts for dissemination are included. In evaluating a proper sentence, the judge could still take into account the two alleged instances of dissemination—there is no need for the prosecutors to obtain separate convictions on those counts for that conduct to be considered in the sentencing.

 

I think that's it.  If he "disseminated" to a furriner, that would be a different deal and implicate another statute.  One that includes the death penalty.

[Brisketexan 104465]

Just a thought and opinion, but the narrative continues to be that the Republican Party is now the Q party and run by Trump, but I don't think that's true.  Yes, in order to win, Trump did need the Q's and the crazies to win in 2016, and yes they did become more engaged and loud because of it, but ultimately that's not the bulk of the party.  Mind you I'm not excusing their behavior, nor am I excusing those that enabled them to meet their own political ends in the short term.  But to me, the truth is that the Republican Party is primarily now the baby boomer generation, combined with Christian fundamentalists, and the Q's.  
For the record, I know some here would identify with being in the baby boomer generation and perhaps take offense to that.  I'm painting in a broad stroke here, and of course these aren't universally true judgments.  
This is where there is good news.  The fact of the matter is, with each passing day there are less of the baby boomer generation alive, and that is only going to accelerate.  You only need to look at an actuary table and overlay it with the general population to see this, and it will continue to accelerate over the next 10 years.  In regards to the religious right, the fact of the matter is that Americans in general quite frankly are shunning organized religion, and educated people at an accelerated level.  As a lifelong atheist, I am very encouraged by this, particularly as the amount of Americans with at least some college continues to grow.  Lastly, the Q group are the types that get arrested and convicted of felonies, and their leadership is being ravaged by indictments.  
All this being said, the Republican Party currently has no real plan to attract new voters, they just rehash the same old bullshit to target these three groups.  Well, if these 3 groups are shrinking, that bodes well for the future.  
Rightly or wrongly, to me, the Trump era will always represent to me the last gasp of political power by the baby boomer generation.  A fitting end to the greediest generation in human history.  Quite frankly I look forward to a future without this group having much political clout.  I'm sure not everything will be perfect, and we will make bad choices as well, but I'm looking forward to that opportunity.  
So for all the people worried about the Q people, they have a point, but we now have an opportunity to win elections by just showing up and being involved.  These people will sulk back to their fucking shanties when do over and over again.  

Wrong.
A party as a whole is as crazy as the craziest faction of that party that it absolutely needs to have a shot at winning elections. This, it is now the GQP. They can’t win without the crazies, so they are now owned by the crazies.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

36 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

Yeah, that's a bunch of shit he made up with that douchebag from Judicial Watch, Tom Fitton.

JW filed a civil case against NARA trying to get them to reclassify Clinton's interview tapes for a book as presidential, as opposed to personal, records.  The ultimate holding of the case was that the courts cannot force NARA to make some kind of decision or to change a decision they have made, as in, whether certain records are presidential or personal.

The case does not, in any way, "authorize" negotiation with NARA (although I'm sure there is some back and forth with some regularity).  Nor does it diminish NARA's power to classify records as presidential, or personal, as it were.

One sort of oddball thing.  The president is initially tasked with administering the PRA, meaning, during his presidency, it's him that makes the initial call as to whether documents are presidential or personal.  NARA can second-guess that at the end of the administration, but I don't think has any legal recourse under the statute to sue to compel production of presidential records.

Classified documents are NOT presidential records.

Edited June 14, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31184]

1 hour ago, Horndog said:

Does anyone have insight into whether dotard and Nauta will be tried together or separately? Or is that something to be determined later? 

Either side (or any of the three, as it were) can move to sever the Nauta case from the Trump case. https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_14

It's a matter for the trial court's discretion, but usually requires some showing of prejudice to the party moving for severance.  I think a typical example of such prejudice is when one defendant's testimony is to be used against the other defendant.  There's a fear that gets confusing for the jury.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19074]

28 minutes ago, The Dog said:

wanna know why he doesn't have restrictions?

he can't keep his mouth shut:

 

See, rope.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19074]

24 minutes ago, Red Five said:

His public defense is basically the Colonel Jessup "You're god damn right I did" admission in court. It's really weird. Good luck, Dotard. 

I really want him to testify and have that moment.  Television gold.

[Biff Tannen 45477]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think that's it.  If he "disseminated" to a furriner, that would be a different deal and implicate another statute.  One that includes the death penalty.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

Just now, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I really want him to testify and have that moment.  Television gold.

It would be more in the form of a Benny Hill comedy, I think.  Col. Jessup avoided incriminating himself until the very last minute, under intense cross-examination.

Trump would just dribble self incrimination non-stop, perhaps culminating in an epic and explosive bout of verbal diarrhea.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I wouldn't count on it.  It seems that Smith really beat the bushes to get anything and everything he could.  I don't think he's holding anything back and he certainly would have indicted it if he had it.

[Red Five 40593]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It would be more in the form of a Benny Hill comedy, I think.  Col. Jessup avoided incriminating himself until the very last minute, under intense cross-examination.

Trump would just dribble self incrimination non-stop, perhaps culminating in an epic and explosive bout of verbal diarrhea.

They can't put him on the stand, right? 

What possible defense is there for him? "He's a moron and legitimately thought he could keep these so come on don't be dicks."?

[Biff Tannen 45477]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I wouldn't count on it.  It seems that Smith really beat the bushes to get anything and everything he could.  I don't think he's holding anything back and he certainly would have indicted it if he had it.

[G650 13990]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I wouldn't count on it.  It seems that Smith really beat the bushes to get anything and everything he could.  I don't think he's holding anything back and he certainly would have indicted it if he had it.

Probably but there is a non zero chance Trump self incriminates for more crimes along the way.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

3 minutes ago, Red Five said:

They can't put him on the stand, right? 

What possible defense is there for him? "He's a moron and legitimately thought he could keep these so come on don't be dicks."?

I'm not sure he has a "case in chief" to put on, much like the Carroll trial.  So the defense will likely rest after the conclusion of the government's case and tell the jury they didn't meet their burden of proof.  It's a time-honored tactic in criminal cases, a bit less so in civil.  It works best when the government doesn't have a strong case.  So, it won't work very well here.

One of the biggest risks is that trial lawyers tend to think that juries expect a case in chief, and failure to deliver one is risky.  In the criminal context, with the burden of proof, it's easier to argue to the jury that "the defendant doesn't have to prove anything at all."  That's technically true in a civil case, also, but because the burden is lower, it's considered pretty risky not to give the jury what it expects.

He would, of course, cross examine the government witnesses and try to damage their credibility.

Edited June 14, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[The Dog 43771]

[tx 3 putt 76159]

 

[TwiceHorn 31184]

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

One of the more amusing things is her complete lack of gunt.  You KNOW she really isn't one of them.

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

1 hour ago, Native Horn said:

Doesn't really matter, but Secret Service is part of the Department of Homeland Security, and has been for about twenty years.

Party of small government!

[Gil Bang 25865]

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I defer to your knowledge of Florida, but Biden beat Trump bigger in PB county than in Dade, double vs single digits.  Pinche Cubanos.

Of course, if rurals are the problem I suppose WPB has greater exposure to rurals.

 

11 hours ago, texastough said:

South Florida doesn't really have anything that we normally think of as "rural" because the interior is all everglades and unpopulated areas. It has a hodgepodge of coastal communities with varying income and demographic differences -- pockets of old farts, white trash, Cuban, etc.

I'm sitting in Palm Beach County right now. Yep, some hillbillies, but also, a metric shitton of New York Jews.  My MIL is the only non-jewish person in her bridge club.

11 hours ago, Pancho said:

 

10 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Mayor of Miami seems to be a huge lying douche 

He's corrupt as fuck. He's still a working lawyer (if there is such a thing...I'm only familiar with lawyers that post on surly all day), specializing in Real Estate deals, and he's in a position to influence development approvals for his clients, and he lines his pocket from it. in 

8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

She's actually appearing in this?

An arraignment is not a real high-tension proceeding, typically, except as pertains to pre-trial detention, but she's not nearly serious enough a law dog for this.

Holy fuck, he had a hot piece of ass show up at the justice dept. last week, and she specializes in homeowner's insurance claims. She's hot though.

[tx 3 putt 76159]

😂😂😂😂

 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

Live look at Nauta:

[Neonmoon 38127]

8 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

😂😂😂😂

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

11 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

😂😂😂😂

 

And under the bus you go, Walt

[Lurch 5919]

If that’s fake, neg bomb run incoming

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

14 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

😂😂😂😂

 

[Gatorubet 30064]

Cannon not gonna like Trump bragging about Judge C gonna fondle his balls.  I mean, she was gonna, but she does not want him to talk about it.  

Edit: Trump told not to talk to Nauta, so he talks about Nauta. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Gatorubet

[Red Five 40593]

Welp there it is. “I had no idea what was in these documents I’ve been hiding and lying about! Had I known….”

[RomaVicta 29756]

18 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

😂😂😂😂

 

Pretty smooth dick move.

I didn't pack the boxes. Walt did. So I had nothing to do with what was taken, and I'm sure sure sure that Walt, who packed the boxes by himself without me around in the least, would never ever never pack secrets in the boxes that I never even saw until the illegal raid on my house. We love you Walt. We're sure as the only person responsible for the contents, storing, and obfuscation about those boxes, you're innocent!

[GenXer 2776]

4 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Pretty smooth dick move.

That is so out of character for the esteemed president trump.

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

That’s fine. But when they were requested returned, why the stall and hiding?  That’s all him and he hasn’t worked out how to fade that yet. 
 

he should have gone with that and given all of the docs back. He’d be in the clear, but mad that the bad men took his binkie from him. And that’s why he couldn’t do it. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Pato del Muerto

[jimmyjazz 45513]

"Good Luck, Walt!"

lulz

[Horn Dog 9644]