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[TwiceHorn 31,465]

33 minutes ago, dcbc said:

 

I don't often worry about perceived bias in trial judges in criminal matters because even the pro-prosecution types I've seen over the years, despite their efforts, don't tend to muck things up too badly.  Nonetheless, this judge has shown her stripes and willingness to go to bat for Don-Don, and her ability to assist him with the delay strategy is unquestionable.  

 

As for true-believers making it onto the panel and hanging the jury, thus leading to a mistrial, I'm usually not too worried about this.  Those people exist in NY and DC as well, yet we still have a verdict for EJC over Trump (civil) and several jury convictions of January 6 types.  Jurors, by and large, try to do a good job as far as we can tell from the outside, and one with heavy bias probably is easier for the Govt to sniff out than we think.  But what's concerning to me in this Federal criminal case not only is the trial judge's ability not only to rule one-sidedly on strikes in voir dire, but also the fact that she, as opposed to counsel,  conducts voir dire.  To the extent I'm worried about an unbiased jury's being seated, that worry stems from the trial judge's ability to sniff them out actively and to be able to overrule valid challenges for cause on the Govt's part.  Of course, this is appealable.  But see delay tactics above.

 

All that said, I'm an optimist.  I think he's going down.  I know why some of you feel differently, and I understand.  But I just have a feeling about this one.  I hope I'm right.

Agree.   People that make it onto a jury usually take their obligations pretty seriously.

Of course, a lot of magats are probably incapable of doing that.  But I also think those types will rapidly expose themselves and be stricken or challenged for cause.

[Js1 85,332]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

FOX probably doesn't even seek out the truth. 

[TwiceHorn 31,465]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

 

Also, why in the blue fuck is a Cuban joint called Versailles?

 

[Francisco 2.0 32,390]

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/pardoning-is-not-enough-we-must-all-perform-seppuku-for-donald-trump/

 

Quote

Some people have been skeptical about the presence of motivational speaker/venture capitalist Vivek Ramaswamy in the 2024 Republican presidential primary race. My colleague Charlie Cooke cruelly accused him of “not really running for president.” An even less reputable writer irresponsibly declared that he had “voluntarily enserfed himself” to Donald Trump, which is the sort of tasteless language that I’m glad National Review no longer tolerates.

 

 

Quote

And with good reason, because Vivek Ramaswamy has proven himself worthy of his candidacy with a truly selfless act: He has called upon all of Donald Trump’s other opponents to sign a promise to pardon Trump of all his crimes regardless of guilt or innocence if they win office. Some opponents of the former president might have taken a combative position in regard to his indictment on 37 counts of stealing and withholding national secrets and more; others might sit on the fence. Yet here Ramaswamy is, with such surpassing grace and magnanimity, asking the entire field to sign his petition to give Trump a blank check. You just have to tip your cap to such a classy opponent.

 

 

Quote

But only so far. My primary criticism of Ramaswamy here is that he lacked the courage to go further. Committing to pardoning Trump before the facts have even been litigated is easy; anybody can do that. Heck, look at Gerald Ford: He not only pardoned Nixon, he went on to beat some forgotten loser in his primary afterwards. Aren’t you a bolder patriot than that hack RINO swamp creature Gerald Ford? The lack of commitment is alarming. Are you really on the team, Vivek? Then you have to prove yourself. Charlie Kirk made a far braver appeal to the persuasive power of self-immolatory protest when he demanded that all candidates other than Donald Trump simply suspend their campaigns in solidarity with him.

 

 

Spoiler

Neither choice goes remotely far enough. Ann Coulter was definitely onto something when she suggested that all Republicans commit suicide to signal their devotion to the cause (“otherwise, we don’t have a country, folks”), but that’s a waste of manpower — look, the national vote was bad enough for Republicans in 2020, we don’t have much of a margin for error here. Instead, we should only cull what’s necessary to prove our superior virtue: The other Republican candidates must agree to ritually off themselves.

It’s the only answer that makes any sense. There can be only one, after all. And there’s no reason to not be creative about it, either — sorry, Chris Christie, you bought the ticket, and now you’re gonna have to take the ride. My first thought was something along the lines of a Mesoamerican blood-sacrifice ritual to appease the angry Deep State Gods (imagine Apocalypto, but with Alex Bruesewitz holding Mike Pence’s still-twitching heart aloft in his hands to get Judge Cannon to dismiss the Trump indictment). But there are even more-fitting historical antecedents out there: Goujian (496–465 b.c.) of the Yue kingdom in China used to intimidate opposing armies by having his front-line soldiers spontaneously behead themselves before battle as a demonstration of fearlessness. Why not draft the rest of the Republican presidential field into making a similarly heroic gesture? At the very least, we may end up learning something about the kind of man Doug Burgum is (was).

Give due credit to Coulter for “knowing what time it is” and immediately recognizing people such as Kirk and Ramaswamy for being insufficiently devoted to the cause. It’s up to the rest of us to prove ourselves worthy of the Trump 2024 campaign, however, and now it’s our turn to push to make Vivek’s dream a reality.

 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's not jury nullification.  Nor is it an acquittal.  It's a hung jury mistrial.

He can be retried.

I'm an idiot. Thank you for translating. 

[TwiceHorn 31,465]

5 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I'm an idiot. Thank you for translating. 

It's technical.  He still gets off, temporarily, at least.

[Js1 85,332]

We all get off, temporarily, at least. 

[Biff Tannen 45,683]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

These people will NEVER change their minds if they didn’t after 2017-2020. No point in listening to them 

CNN also just showed some people at some diner in bumfuck wherever and when confronted with the facts of the current indictments, they just waved it away and pivoted to "BUT HUNTER BIDEN!"  No amount of truth will ever change these people's minds.  Our only hope is that they don't go out to vote.

[RomaVicta 29,907]

Very crisp, amusing page so far. 

[Captainant 27,664]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's technical.  He still gets off, temporarily, at least.

That's funny, I remember reading that this would be different and that wouldn't be possible because it's a criminal trial and they don't tolerate such fuckery?

[henrygandorf 29,191]

 

[C-Man 27,225]

@TwiceHorn?

https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-bedminster-2661313172/

Quote

As damning as the indictment against Donald Trump appears to be, it's possible he'll face even more serious charges in a federal court outside of Florida.

The former president was charged with 37 counts in Miami related to his mishandling of classified documents at his Mar-a-Lago estate, but legal experts Ryan Goodman and Andrew Weissmann wrote a new column for The Atlantic saying the indictment shows Trump may have committed additional crimes at his private residence in Bedminster, New Jersey,

"According to the Justice Department and a taped recording of the former president, Trump took classified records from Mar-a-Lago to Bedminster, where he showed off the contents of such records to others," wrote Goodman and Weissman, who each are professors at NYU School of Law.

"The indictment alleges that Trump showed a map to a political ally and also showed a writer and a publisher a secret military plan to attack Iran. These two episodes were arguably the most egregious allegations of criminal wrongdoing mentioned in the indictment; they allege not just the improper retention of our nation’s most highly classified information, but the intentional communication of such information."

The video player is currently playing an ad.Skip Ad

It's not clear why special counsel Jack Smith didn't charge Trump with the dissemination of classified documents, the pair wrote, and it's not clear whether those charges could remain on the table.

"Trump’s Bedminster conduct, as described in the indictment, appears to fit the description of two federal offenses designed to keep America’s national-security secrets safe," wrote Goodman and Weissmann. "One makes it a crime to intentionally communicate national-defense information to people not authorized to receive it, and the other makes it a crime to intentionally disclose classified information to the same."

"These are more serious crimes than willful retention of such documents, which is done to prevent possible leakage. Deliberate dissemination is the leakage itself."

Smith could have charged Trump in Florida for crimes he allegedly committed in New Jersey, although the U.S. Supreme Court could have ultimately decided that wasn't the proper venue. So it's possible the special counsel is holding back on the dissemination charge in the event that the Mar-a-Lago case falls apart, the pair wrote.

"The legal uncertainties that surround bringing charges in Florida for dissemination of national-security secrets in Bedminster leaves open the possibility that charges might yet be brought in New Jersey — a backup plan of sorts for Smith," wrote Goodman and Weissmann.

"If Aileen Cannon, the Florida judge assigned to the case, were to seek to pocket-veto the charges before her by, say, scheduling the trial for after the 2024 presidential election, the special counsel would be able to sidestep her tactic by proceeding with charges in New Jersey."

The Miami indictment notably excludes evidence surrounding Trump's potential crimes in Bedminster, which leads Goodman and Weissman to suspect those allegations could wind up in a separate case.

"Smith might still decide against bringing a separate indictment for dissemination, because such a move could be painted as overcharging," they wrote. "The government usually tries to avoid being seen as piling on, at least in such a high-profile matter. But if Cannon acts consistently with her prior Trump-friendly rulings, which were twice found by unanimous panels of conservative appellate judges to be both factually and legally flawed, Smith might go looking for another way to ensure accountability — and another venue where he could do so."

 

[The Dog 44,046]

 

[TwiceHorn 31,465]

18 minutes ago, C-Man said:

@TwiceHorn?

https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-bedminster-2661313172/

 

I think that's a bit of a rehash of The Atlantic article Francisco posted.

It's possible, but I think unlikely.

Smith seems to be playing this very "square."  He could have brought this case in DC, or maybe even NJ, in the first instance, but he went to the completely legally unobjectionable venue in West Palm Beach, despite the disadvantages.

Serial prosecutions to take advantage of a more favorable venue would be somewhat or completely dirty (if it were any other defendant, I'd call it dirty af).

Edited June 15, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Foosters 17,856]

12 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That's funny, I remember reading that this would be different and that wouldn't be possible because it's a criminal trial and they don't tolerate such fuckery?

You're learning about the concept of jury trials for the first time today? 

You've seriously never considered that juries can get it wrong? That innocent people get convicted and guilty ones walk?

Stop being such a fucking idiot 

[tchookem 3,900]

It seems to me that when it comes to future new votes, they're largely dependent on their offspring (MAGAts) who are not yet of voting age. I have to think there will be a good number who reject what they've been indoctrinated to believe when they come of age. I could be wrong about that but regardless, there's no future for their species in the US politically. 

You make a very good point, and one that could lead to a very scary outcome down the road. For those that don't reject the indoctrination, they could end up even more extreme.

MAGA was born from disillusioned white people believing they had lost their country, and they had no power politically. When MAGA goes kaput, where do they turn? They're not going to suddenly turn normal.

[TwiceHorn 31,465]

18 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That's funny, I remember reading that this would be different and that wouldn't be possible because it's a criminal trial and they don't tolerate such fuckery?

You're just beclowning yourself at this point.

I have never said a jury wasn't a wild card.

What I did say, which you seem to have massive difficulty confining yourself to, is that criminal cases aren't like civil cases and fewer of Trump's usual tactics will work.

I don't think Trump has ever had a jury trial prior to Carrroll, and the Trump Org case if you want to count that.  In a civil case, it's easy peasy to avoid ever going to trial.  Not so much with criminal cases.

Edited June 15, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Biff Tannen 45,683]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

"The indictment alleges that Trump showed a map to a political ally Kid fucking Rock and also showed a writer and a publisher a secret military plan to attack Iran

Let's call this what it really was because the timeline is so god damn dumb.

[G650 14,256]

19 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That's funny, I remember reading that this would be different and that wouldn't be possible because it's a criminal trial and they don't tolerate such fuckery?

Dude. Stahp.

[The Dog 44,046]

Recommendation:

[speed817 19,270]

42 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

So we can add "Dine and Dash" to his list of crimes???

[TwiceHorn 31,465]

Just now, The Dog said:

Recommendation:

He infuriates me in here, but he's a good poster elsewhere and obviously a bright guy.

 

[scottsins 1,966]

Agree.   People that make it onto a jury usually take their obligations pretty seriously.
Of course, a lot of magats are probably incapable of doing that.  But I also think those types will rapidly expose themselves and be stricken or challenged for cause.

Also, and I only speak from State court experience, not fed, once the potential juror cards are handed to the parties, the prosecutors pass them along to their investigators who did up everything they can on the panel, so there would be additional ways to root out potential nullifiers.

[Macanudo 12,978]

That Iowa focus group is infuriating but not surprising.    America is full of morons.

[TwiceHorn 31,465]

Just now, scottsins said:

Also, and I only speak from State court experience, not fed, once the potential juror cards are handed to the parties, the prosecutors pass them along to their investigators who did up everything they can on the panel, so there would be additional ways to root out potential nullifiers.

I do think federal judges tend to grant a little more leeway in criminal voir dire than civil.  But, you may have noticed that Kaplan kept the jurors anonymous in the Carroll case, for both the plaintiff and Trump, just because of the potential for abuse and harassment from Magaworld.

That could very well happen here.  But if the gubmint is permitted to do jury research, you'd think the magatness would be immediately on graphic display just from social media.

[Hermanator 7,043]

4 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

It seems to me that when it comes to future new votes, they're largely dependent on their offspring (MAGAts) who are not yet of voting age. I have to think there will be a good number who reject what they've been indoctrinated to believe when they come of age. I could be wrong about that but regardless, there's no future for their species in the US politically. 

That's just not how it works. The boomer generation was the generation of peace, love, and rock and roll as kids. '67 the summer of love. Gonna change the world. 

Then they got old and became the generation of hate, fear, and fascism. Generations of humans become shittier as they age because they succumb to fear about the changing world different from what they knew when they were kids. 

[4th&Five 41,543]

They didn't have to get old.  They voted for Reagan in their 30's.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

2 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

That's just not how it works. The boomer generation was the generation of peace, love, and rock and roll as kids. '67 the summer of love. Gonna change the world. 

Then they got old and became the generation of hate, fear, and fascism. Generations of humans become shittier as they age because they succumb to fear about the changing world different from what they knew when they were kids. 

Exactly 

The "things will change when they die off" argument has always been invalid, but every generation, people keep saying it because enacting change is harder than letting someone else deal with the problem. 

['stache 21,815]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Some stupid motherfuckers right there.  Why isn't Biden indicted?  Because he gave them back at the right time?

Goddamn.

And probably didn't include war plans, and sure as fuck wasn't shared with Kid Rock. I seriously believe the United States will cease to exist in my lifetime. This level of dumbfuckery isn't sustainable. The republican party has bred a society of morons and conspiracy nuts. A country this large cannot exist when half of its citizens can't comprehend basic facts and have no understanding of politics other than buzzwords like woke and leftist. Seeing anyone with an R by their name wearing a flag pin and referring to patriotism makes my blood boil. They are undermining this country's existence and it will be their fault when it collapses. 

[C-Man 27,225]

12 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

That's just not how it works. The boomer generation was the generation of peace, love, and rock and roll as kids. '67 the summer of love. Gonna change the world. 

Then they got old and became the generation of hate, fear, and fascism. Generations of humans become shittier as they age because they succumb to fear about the changing world different from what they knew when they were kids. 

Among Boomers, seems there were just as many of these ...

 

as there were of these ...

[SydneyCarton 48,101]

11 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

That's just not how it works. The boomer generation was the generation of peace, love, and rock and roll as kids. '67 the summer of love. Gonna change the world. 

Then they got old and became the generation of hate, fear, and fascism. Generations of humans become shittier as they age because they succumb to fear about the changing world different from what they knew when they were kids. 

 

7 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Exactly 

The "things will change when they die off" argument has always been invalid, but every generation, people keep saying it because enacting change is harder than letting someone else deal with the problem. 

I used to have this opinion as well, but it was pointed out to me that while getting an outsized level of attention and imprinting on our ideas of historical culture, the percentage of people who were actually hippies was actually pretty small.  It was, after all, a counter-culture. No one has the numbers but I've seen the idea of less than half a million people actually were hippies, or well under 20% of the youth. 

Much like Black Culture in American, the influence just has a more massive and outsized effect on culture than the actual population of people that participated. 

That being said, I absolutely agree that human beings in general can't handle change when they get older and revert to simple concepts like "kids these days" and "no one talks about all the good Hitler did."

[CTC2 2,797]

6 minutes ago, 'stache said:

And probably didn't include war plans, and sure as fuck wasn't shared with Kid Rock. I seriously believe the United States will cease to exist in my lifetime. This level of dumbfuckery isn't sustainable. The republican party has bred a society of morons and conspiracy nuts. A country this large cannot exist when half of its citizens can't comprehend basic facts and have no understanding of politics other than buzzwords like woke and leftist. Seeing anyone with an R by their name wearing a flag pin and referring to patriotism makes my blood boil. They are undermining this country's existence and it will be their fault when it collapses. 

They think they are the smart ones. 
 

 

[mchookem 16,335]

1 hour ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Yikes 

 

ugh. Brisket may be right... 😳

[CTC2 2,797]

20 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

That's just not how it works. The boomer generation was the generation of peace, love, and rock and roll as kids. '67 the summer of love. Gonna change the world. 

Then they got old and became the generation of hate, fear, and fascism. Generations of humans become shittier as they age because they succumb to fear about the changing world different from what they knew when they were kids. 

Boomers on whole will go down as one of the worst generations. The greatest generation had the worst kids. 
Gen X really got screwed by the boomers. 

[Born to Run 6,569]

Exactly 
The "things will change when they die off" argument has always been invalid, but every generation, people keep saying it because enacting change is harder than letting someone else deal with the problem. 

Also millions of new fucktards are minted every year. Go to any rural town, or Montgomery county, or Port A. See also Tex Ags. Or most every 20 year old blue collar guy be they white or Hispanic.
I know more people that will vote for Trump than not, sadly.

[Js1 85,332]

That says a lot more about you than society 

[Blotto 23,501]

4 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Also millions of new fucktards are minted every year. Go to any rural town, or Montgomery county, or Port A. See also Tex Ags. Or most every 20 year old blue collar guy be they white or Hispanic.
I know more people that will vote for Trump than not, sadly.

Or a growing number  of churches. I havent attended church since I was probably 15, but I sure as fuck dont remember politics coming into the sermon. Now all these fucktarded jesus freaks are fervently exhorting their congregations to vote Trump. All of these religious charter schools and homeschool nuts are pumping kids full of this bullshit. Waiting on the GQP to die off because of the olds seems like wishful thinking. They can outbreed and outdumb the competition. 

Also, I'm not sure if this dude made an appearance on Surly during the arraignment or not, but I dig his style. I notice he was giving shit to that long haired loser 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Blotto

[G650 14,256]

There's actually a good bit of data out there that this time it is indeed different, insofar as different means different from the past 60 or so years. Previously, the Silent Generation stayed more democratic. And there's evidence that millennials and Gen Z are going that way too.

[SydneyCarton 48,101]

13 minutes ago, CTC2 said:

They think they are the smart ones. 
 

 

This might be my favorite "Every Accusation is a confession of all time." 

https://pos.org/whos-watching-a-look-at-the-demographics-of-cable-news-channel-watchers/

 

 

10 minutes ago, CTC2 said:

Boomers on whole will go down as one of the worst generations. The greatest generation had the worst kids. 
Gen X really got screwed by the boomers. 

Boomers are the worst generation. Additionally, we say Generation X got screwed by Boomers, but remember most Boomers before they got old were reasonable or functional. You want to know who really got fucking screwed? Millennials and Gen Z, these are kids who's parents are the Boomers' second family of kids, when they were older, crazier, and probably indifferent to actually participating in the child-rearing of their children. Imagine being a 20 year old Trans Kid who's dad is a 60 year old Boomer? Now tell me the odds they have a good relationship 

[Foosters 17,856]

The main difference between boomers and millennials and gen z, is boomers spent their 20s and 30s accumulating wealth and building a nest egg. When they got older, they did everything they could to protect those assets and preserve the system.

People under 40 today have no real interest in preserving the status quo. They don't own houses, they're drowning in debt, and they're living paycheck to paycheck.

If people truly vote with their wallets, then the future is not bright for the GOP.

[SydneyCarton 48,101]

2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

The main difference between boomers and millennials and gen z, is boomers spent their 20s and 30s accumulating wealth and building a nest egg. When they got older, they did everything they could to protect those assets and preserve the system.

People under 40 today have no real interest in preserving the status quo. They don't own houses, they're drowning in debt, and they're living paycheck to paycheck.

If people truly vote with their wallets, then the future is not bright for the GOP.

Not exactly a counterpoint, but everyone keeps saying that when Boomers die it's going to be the greatest transfer of wealth in human history. Not sure if it's accurate or not (the hyperbole) but there are suddenly going to be a lot of Millenials and Gen Zers with houses, or the money to buy houses overnight. That will change things.

Assuming all the old selfish fucks don't give it all to Kenneth Copeland and his ilk before they fucking croak. 

['stache 21,815]

4 minutes ago, Foosters said:

The main difference between boomers and millennials and gen z, is boomers spent their 20s and 30s accumulating wealth and building a nest egg. When they got older, they did everything they could to protect those assets and preserve the system.

People under 40 today have no real interest in preserving the status quo. They don't own houses, they're drowning in debt, and they're living paycheck to paycheck.

If people truly vote with their wallets, then the future is not bright for the GOP.

Yeah the economy sucks, but haven't you heard that the libs are letting drag queens give lap dances to toddlers? Vote R!

[C-Man 27,225]

27 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

I used to have this opinion as well, but it was pointed out to me that while getting an outsized level of attention and imprinting on our ideas of historical culture, the percentage of people who were actually hippies was actually pretty small.  It was, after all, a counter-culture. No one has the numbers but I've seen the idea of less than half a million people actually were hippies, or well under 20% of the youth. 

Much like Black Culture in American, the influence just has a more massive and outsized effect on culture than the actual population of people that participated. 

That being said, I absolutely agree that human beings in general can't handle change when they get older and revert to simple concepts like "kids these days" and "no one talks about all the good Hitler did."

Perhaps but I'm just reporting what I see first-hand among my kids' (18 and 15) generation. Today's kids are far more tolerant of alternative lifestyles, LGBTQ+/ethnic, etc. They're far more engaged on social issues, they're more philanthropic (obviously, the kids older than mine) than previous generations and they're way less religious. It will take time -- and, yes, there are still going to be rich, entitled, male assholes to contend with -- but things will begin to pivot as the my parents and their peer group (mid/late 70's now) start dying off. I believe that. (Assuming AI doesn't kill us all off first.)

 

24 minutes ago, CTC2 said:

They think they are the smart ones. 
 

 

Dunning-Kruger Effect on full display

[RDCanecutter 26,438]

3 hours ago, G650 said:

TIL people didn't know the word portmanteau

Fetchez la vache.

[conVINCEd 21,469]

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Not exactly a counterpoint, but everyone keeps saying that when Boomers die it's going to be the greatest transfer of wealth in human history. Not sure if it's accurate or not (the hyperbole) but there are suddenly going to be a lot of Millenials and Gen Zers with houses, or the money to buy houses overnight. That will change things.

Assuming all the old selfish fucks don't give it all to Kenneth Copeland and his ilk before they fucking croak. 

The boomers are gonna blow most of it before they go.  That’s just my observation from a really small sample size.

[Kel Varnsen 8,460]

Just go to Winstar and you'll see it for yourself.

[TwiceHorn 31,465]

11 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Not exactly a counterpoint, but everyone keeps saying that when Boomers die it's going to be the greatest transfer of wealth in human history. Not sure if it's accurate or not (the hyperbole) but there are suddenly going to be a lot of Millenials and Gen Zers with houses, or the money to buy houses overnight. That will change things.

Assuming all the old selfish fucks don't give it all to Kenneth Copeland and his ilk before they fucking croak. 

Well, boomers also operated under the 1945-1970 great expansion that carried over a bit until the 80s or so.  For those people, it's very easy to pat themselves on the back and insist that others use their bootstraps without acknowledging that things have changed for the worse unless you're firmly in the upper half, or 25%.  

I'm not sure that just because succeeding generations obtain wealth, they'll have the same attitudes about how they got it, or even their forebears got it, as boomers and other past generations.

[RDCanecutter 26,438]

2 hours ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Yikes 

 

That felt like the planning committee for First Baptist Church's biblically-correct theatrical adaptation of Peter Pan.

[SydneyCarton 48,101]

4 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Just go to Winstar and you'll see it for yourself.

No, and go fuck yourself for even suggesting that horseshit. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,781]

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

The 5th Circuit has only been a steaming heap of shit for about 15 years, about the time Edith Jones became Chief Judge in 2006.

Thanks, Dubya.