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Cairn Horn88

By Cairn Horn88
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32108

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This one, unlike the Mar A Lago case, is going to have some "presidential" shit in it.  Immunity, etc.  But, I don't see a First Amendment defense working at all.  If it was just the 1/6 speech, that might be a different story, but it's not.

Nor will an advice of counsel defense work, because he picked and chose his counsel and ignored the ones that told him what he didn't want to hear.  And, she's not going to let them re-litigate election fraud, unless they come up with something from prior to January 6 that's credible and was known to Trump at the time, which aint happening.

I don't expect Chutkan to tolerate much foolishness here.  This won't be burdened by CIPA and classified information.  It will be interesting to see when she sets a trial date, etc. and compare it to Cannon, but I think the two cases are pretty apples and oranges.

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HillCountryBevo
HillCountryBevo

Imagine your basis of hating Trump is because of mean tweets, January 6 and “hush money” trial all because liberal media is crooked. Fuck right off. This is my last post in this forum  dumb fucki

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

When you're a court, you just grab their asset, and they let you do it!

HillCountryBevo
HillCountryBevo

Bye bitch. Enjoy living in literal hell if your man Biden is re elected

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46204

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1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

We all know that what they say among themselves, what they say to the public, and what they say to the courts are 3 independent lines of thought. 

In all reality, their argument is: well, it may be illegal, but it SHOULDN'T BE so therefore, it's ok for them and their god.  That's it.

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Constant

Constant 6936

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Conspiracy to defraud the United States….by a sitting president. A charge that could probably be applied to 1,000 other events that occurred over his time in office. Every single one of us ought to be bringing 10 people to the polls with us. This piece of shit can not win. 

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mchookem

mchookem 16784

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1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I just want to say how fucking INSANE it is that we have to sit here and watch people try to justify any of this.

If I were a person on camera on any rational news network, I would not be able to not bury my head in my hands and just scream out, "WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE TALKING ABOUT!?!?!"

The Republican argument is fully irrational, disingenuous, and insane.  The media needs to (and I've been saying this since 2016) call people LIARS and FRAUDS.  We cannot continue down this path of "huh, well, maybe..."  NO!  This is fucking nuts.  Fuck these people.

 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30789

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Weismann on MSNBC with the money observation: Trump has now been indicted for criminal conduct he did prior to being elected, his criminal conduct while he was President, and his criminal conduct after he left office.  

The hitherto unknown POTUS criminal Hat Trick. 

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 12723

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Just now, Gatorubet said:

Weismann on MSNBC with the money observation: Trump has now been indicted for criminal conduct he did prior to being elected, his criminal conduct while he was President, and his criminal conduct after he left office.  

The hitherto unknown POTUS criminal Hat Trick. 

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Pods

Pods 7638

Posted
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10 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Weismann on MSNBC with the money observation: Trump has now been indicted for criminal conduct he did prior to being elected, his criminal conduct while he was President, and his criminal conduct after he left office.  

The hitherto unknown POTUS criminal Hat Trick. 

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 78762

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1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I just want to say how fucking INSANE it is that we have to sit here and watch people try to justify any of this.

If I were a person on camera on any rational news network, I would not be able to not bury my head in my hands and just scream out, "WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE TALKING ABOUT!?!?!"

The Republican argument is fully irrational, disingenuous, and insane.  The media needs to (and I've been saying this since 2016) call people LIARS and FRAUDS.  We cannot continue down this path of "huh, well, maybe..."  NO!  This is fucking nuts.  Fuck these people.

Mental gymnastics 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30789

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This is probably a real reach, Double Jeopardy wise, but can a criminal law-dawg opine whether the elements of inciting an insurrection and sedition are so significantly different than the current charges - so that after this conviction, Trump could later be charged with his insurrection formenting?

It was entirely correct not to charge Trump with sedition or insurrection, as any charge that bars him from running for POTUS again would be seen as purely vindictive, and for a political purpose….like he bloviates all the time.  So I guess in my fever dream, after a few trials and convictions to show everyone what a piece of shit he is, and after a Democrat is elected in 2024, we do J6 Boogaloo, the revisit. 

It sort of looks like the more serious charges would be precluded, because the elements of his current charges appear pretty much lesser included offenses-ish.    But I don’t know shit about criminal law

 

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Satchel

Satchel 6983

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:


I love Watters question of “how are you gonna prove he knew there was no election fraud?” What. A fucking. Choad. The fucking indictment (and that’s just the indictment, there’s a lot more than that) is page after page of EVIDENCE that Trump 1) knew exactly that, and was told over and over and over again, and 2) he never had any contrary FACTS (that is, facts that actually supported fraud).
Trump had person after person telling him “sir, the moon is not made of cheese. It isn’t. We’ve had astronauts go there, they verify that it’s not made of cheese. There is zero evidence that it is made of cheese.” And Watters is asking “oh yeah, we’ll how can you prove that Trump knew the moon isn’t made of cheese?!?!” I mean, maybe their defense is “everyone knows he’s such a complete fucking moron that he wouldn’t believe water is wet even as he’s drowning in it.” Ok. Cool. Hook ‘em.

I think Smith has secured the cooperation of one or two within Trump’s orbit who will testify to the fact that he privately acknowledged losing the election.

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16593

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32 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Weismann on MSNBC with the money observation: Trump has now been indicted for criminal conduct he did prior to being elected, his criminal conduct while he was President, and his criminal conduct after he left office.  

The hitherto unknown POTUS criminal Hat Trick. 

It's a Presidential Switzer Slam!

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32108

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21 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

This is probably a real reach, Double Jeopardy wise, but can a criminal law-dawg opine whether the elements of inciting an insurrection and sedition are so significantly different than the current charges - so that after this conviction, Trump could later be charged with his insurrection formenting?

It was entirely correct not to charge Trump with sedition or insurrection, as any charge that bars him from running for POTUS again would be seen as purely vindictive, and for a political purpose….like he bloviates all the time.  So I guess in my fever dream, after a few trials and convictions to show everyone what a piece of shit he is, and after a Democrat is elected in 2024, we do J6 Boogaloo, the revisit. 

It sort of looks like the more serious charges would be precluded, because the elements of his current charges appear pretty much lesser included offenses-ish.    But I don’t know shit about criminal law

 

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383 Rebellion or Insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384 Seditious Conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

Insurrection would probably not be charged because there are serious doubts that the statute excludes activity protected by the First Amendment, in a general case, and is thus unconstitutional.

The "by force" part of seditious conspiracy probably excludes Trump unless he gets closely connected to the individuals applying force or attempting to, e.g. Oath Keepers.

Obstruction is a 20 year felony, so "serious" is rather a matter of perspective.

 

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NWBuck

NWBuck 8630

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2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

You know, I think I'd be ok with this sort of justice system if whenever someone was dead to rights on something, they at least got a broadside on the jaw from a waffle iron.  Like, immediately.  Oh, you were caught on camera?  WANG!  

Ok, now go get your trial.  

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30789

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1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So no government entity should be able to punish anyone for anything they say? The first amendment is that broad, is it?

“Like I said to that lady, ‘take off your clothes and don’t make me have to use this pistol.’   It’s my right as an American to have free speech. How dare you,Jack Smith, deprive me of my free speech …you are unethical!”

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Satchel

Satchel 6983

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4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


I love Watters question of “how are you gonna prove he knew there was no election fraud?” What. A fucking. Choad. The fucking indictment (and that’s just the indictment, there’s a lot more than that) is page after page of EVIDENCE that Trump 1) knew exactly that, and was told over and over and over again, and 2) he never had any contrary FACTS (that is, facts that actually supported fraud).
Trump had person after person telling him “sir, the moon is not made of cheese. It isn’t. We’ve had astronauts go there, they verify that it’s not made of cheese. There is zero evidence that it is made of cheese.” And Watters is asking “oh yeah, we’ll how can you prove that Trump knew the moon isn’t made of cheese?!?!” I mean, maybe their defense is “everyone knows he’s such a complete fucking moron that he wouldn’t believe water is wet even as he’s drowning in it.” Ok. Cool. Hook ‘em.

  • Trump appeared to privately concede that he lost the election three days before January 6.

  • In a meeting with Gen. Mark Milley, Trump said "it's too late for us" and "we're going to give that to the next guy."

  • According to special counsel Jack Smith's indictment, Trump had been informed that Inauguration Day was fast approaching.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-told-top-military-advisor-232732121.html

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19478

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11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Months ago, during the Committee hearings, I predicted the conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding much as it has been pled here.

Also, all you nattering nabobs of negativity can gobble my crank.  You can quibble with the timing, but here it is.  Fuckin told ya.

It's a shame that it took the Committee hearings spoon feeding this shit to Garland before he got off his ass and appointed Smith to get after it.

 

Quote

Granted, Garland didn't bring these charges himself, and he never would have, but he appointed the man who did and seems to have made a superlative choice. I think I was the only one defending him.

Once this is over, if Biden or another D is elected, Garland needs to step down and Smith needs to be AG.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32108

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4 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

It's a shame that it took the Committee hearings spoon feeding this shit to Garland before he got off his ass and appointed Smith to get after it.

 

Once this is over, if Biden or another D is elected, Garland needs to step down and Smith needs to be AG.

Pffft.

Garland doesn't control Alvin Bragg or Fani Willis, and, looky here, all these indictments are rolling in about the same time.

Maybe, just maybe, it takes some time to put together a criminal case.

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