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Cairn Horn88

By Cairn Horn88
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bolverk

bolverk 29717

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Work with the other side? LOL My God, they went after Obama for a tan suit and French mustard. There was no working with the other fucking side, whether it was Hillary or any Democrat.

I used Rush as sort of a metaphor for all the people who shit talked about her all those years - which I’m sure was inaccurate….and I retract that. 

 

Just to set the record straight, I know all the rightwing pundits wanted to make Obama seem like an emasculated unAmerican fancypants for ordering French Dijon mustard, but the man's first choice was the decidedly tough and masculine all-American SPICY mustard. That other shit was just an afterthought. The worst sin would've been for him to, god forbid, ask to have Devil's sperm (mayo) on his burger.

 

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HillCountryBevo
HillCountryBevo

Imagine your basis of hating Trump is because of mean tweets, January 6 and “hush money” trial all because liberal media is crooked. Fuck right off. This is my last post in this forum  dumb fucki

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

When you're a court, you just grab their asset, and they let you do it!

HillCountryBevo
HillCountryBevo

Bye bitch. Enjoy living in literal hell if your man Biden is re elected

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5987

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

Some guest on CNN argues Fulton County DA may not have jurisdiction and that the state AG would be the sole authority for this case because the crimes were not limited to the county but were statewide. What say the lawyers?

Was thinking about this earlier--by the end, Trump will be trying to make this a Federal crime so he can try and pardon himself.  

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105310

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And I hope all his codefendants go down with him.
And that several of them die in prison. Desperate. Alone. Weeping. Dejected. Accursed. Scared. May their last thoughts be of how alone and forsaken they are, and fear of the oblivion that awaits them.
Oblivion.
Because Hell is too good for them.

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 77386

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

Some guest on CNN argues Fulton County DA may not have jurisdiction and that the state AG would be the sole authority for this case because the crimes were not limited to the county but were statewide. What say the lawyers?


Per kash Patel this is a federal case and the da’s office committed multiple felonies !!!

lawless !!!!

jim Jordan needs to cut their funding !!!!

😂😂😂😂😂😂

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Js1

Js1 85562

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

And I hope all his codefendants go down with him.
And that several of them die in prison. Desperate. Alone. Weeping. Dejected. Accursed. Scared. May their last thoughts be of how alone and forsaken they are, and fear of the oblivion that awaits them.
Oblivion.
Because Hell is too good for them.

Jenna Ellis will def be popular in prison. 

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dcbc

dcbc 14508

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

And I hope all his codefendants go down with him.
And that several of them die in prison. Desperate. Alone. Weeping. Dejected. Accursed. Scared. May their last thoughts be of how alone and forsaken they are, and fear of the oblivion that awaits them.
Oblivion.
Because Hell is too good for them.

lysol-chappelle.gif

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dcbc

dcbc 14508

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, TexasHooch said:

Yep.  Sorta figured Meadows would be as well but maybe he was in too deep to cut a deal.

It's not too late for him to flip on Trump, but probably too late to avoid jail.

 

/why not both

Edited by dcbc
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Satchel

Satchel 6949

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

 

We shouldn’t forget to include Trump saying that people would understand if Raffensperger claimed he made an earlier miscalculation in the vote talley. Ultimately, he threatened to sic Barr on him if he didn’t play ball. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46118

Posted
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Lawdogs, can you simplify RICO charges?

It's my understanding that RICO requires at least 2 conspirators committing at least 2 crimes.  Surely not all 19 defendents are on the hook if only 2 committed crimes?  Do they all get roped in regardless of actual involvement in particular crimes of the 141 charged?

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28797

Posted
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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

MAGA social media is making a push to get Kemp to fire Fani Willis, since he signed legislation allowing that earlier this year.

Talk about start some shit, but he doesn't have the guts to be that bold, no matter how much Trump needles him.

I imagine seeing how folks reacted in Tennessee (and nationally) when they tried to remove the two Justins gives him pause when thinking about engaging in a political hit job in Georgia. 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30300

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Lawdogs, can you simplify RICO charges?

It's my understanding that RICO requires at least 2 conspirators committing at least 2 crimes.  Surely not all 19 defendents are on the hook if only 2 committed crimes?  Do they all get roped in regardless of actual involvement in particular crimes of the 141 charged?

Search RICO and find my Longcat on the subject.   Ain’t nobody got time to type that thing out tonight.   I’m drankin’ n’ smokin’…

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89787

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Planet Houston said:

Um…wow. 

https://x.com/anthonymkreis/status/1691281677044113408?s=46&t=6Ppg3mB8102kwVAtPmptWg

Shit won’t embed, thanks Elon. NINETEEN defendants. 

38 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Oh god I hope Ladybug is one

I Hope Please GIF

35 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Who’s not on the list ??

28 minutes ago, TexasHooch said:

Looks like Graham escaped indictment.

19 minutes ago, The Dog said:

He’s a witness for the prosecution.

oof

Yep, sounds like Graham probably flipped.  May explain why he went so hard in the paint for Trump over the past few days - as soon as this leaks out, Trump will probably start thinking about releasing whatever blackmale material he has on Lindsey.

F3ipuHebsAECpnn?format=jpg&name=large

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elfenix

elfenix 34332

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Lawdogs, can you simplify RICO charges?

It's my understanding that RICO requires at least 2 conspirators committing at least 2 crimes.  Surely not all 19 defendents are on the hook if only 2 committed crimes?  Do they all get roped in regardless of actual involvement in particular crimes of the 141 charged?

 

all i know about rico:

 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46118

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Search RICO and find my Longcat on the subject.   Ain’t nobody got time to type that thing out tonight.   I’m drankin’ n’ smokin’…

Ain't nobody got the patience to deal with surly's shitty search function.

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Gap03

Gap03 3313

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Per Kaitlin Jenner - they’re coming after the people watching us on tv next !

I flipped over to Fox a few times during the wait.  That's one of their prime talking points that all of their regulars (Lyin' Ted, Jenner, Tomi Lahren, etc.) have been spouting tonight. Expect it to be their mantra in the coming weeks.

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dcbc

dcbc 14508

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Lawdogs, can you simplify RICO charges?

It's my understanding that RICO requires at least 2 conspirators committing at least 2 crimes.  Surely not all 19 defendents are on the hook if only 2 committed crimes?  Do they all get roped in regardless of actual involvement in particular crimes of the 141 charged?

You have a RICO violation when a person, in connection with an enterprise, engages in a pattern of racketeering activity. "Racketeering activity" includes a laundry list of crimes a/k/a "predicate offenses (and in GA, probably a lot of state crimes as predicates).

To be charged, the person must have been engaged in a minimum of two predicate crimes within a 10-year time frame and those predicate offenses must also have been committed in connection with an "enterprise."  An enterprise may be a legal or an illegal one, but must be a discrete entity.

Edited by dcbc
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troph

troph 24905

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Lawdogs, can you simplify RICO charges?

It's my understanding that RICO requires at least 2 conspirators committing at least 2 crimes.  Surely not all 19 defendents are on the hook if only 2 committed crimes?  Do they all get roped in regardless of actual involvement in particular crimes of the 141 charged?

It allows you to tell the whole story. 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30300

Posted
Posted
On 7/28/2023 at 2:29 PM, Gatorubet said:

I never got around to posting my thoughts about RICO in Georgia.   So quickly, the RICO (Racketeer Influenced  and Corrupt Organizations Act)  statute in Georgia has problems for Donny.

So, you need an enterprise theory and two predicate acts to file a RICO claim.  Think of the enterprise as the thing you want to influence.  Like the Mob infiltrating a labor union to steal the pension money and control the docks.   Or taking over the Georgia elections from the lawful government authorities.  

The "predicate acts" are crimes.   Almost always the crimes are wire fraud  - interstate phone calls or mail or email that are fraudulent. 

WIRE FRAUD - ELEMENTS OF THE CRIME

In a nutshell, fraud means knowingly or recklessly disseminating a lie for the sole purpose of depriving an unsuspecting victim of money, property, or something else that is valuable.

In order for a federal prosecutor to prove that wire fraud took place, they must demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant did all of the following:

  • Engaged in a scheme to commit fraud, such as making a “material misrepresentation” or “deceitful omission” about something
  • Utilized some sort of wire mechanism, such as a television, radio, or the internet, to  further the scheme; and
  • Possessed the necessary “mens rea,” or mental state

 The same acts of mail and wire fraud that qualify as predicate acts under the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) also qualify as predicate acts under Georgia's RICO.  

 To establish a statutory mail or wire fraud claim, a plaintiff need only show that the defendant (1) intentionally participates in a scheme to defraud another of money or property and (2) uses the mails or wires in furtherance of that scheme; reliance is not a required element.   This is key! You do not have to prove that anyone relied on your lying bullshit to their detriment, just that they said lying bullshit.  Trump is a lie factory.  So it is easy to find the acts.  Calls from Trump to Georgia officials will suffice.  Fake Elector schemes will suffice.  The fucking with the Georgia Grand Jury by going on TV and trying to delegitimize the Grand Jury Proceedings might suffice.  Going on Truth Social or Twitter to spread your lies about Georgia will meet that requirement.  And that culpability applies to anyone and everyone in the conspiracy, so a single call from Senator Ladybugs and a single call from Trump will suffice to meet the two acts.  The acts need to be in furtherance of a crime - and a felony.    

These are my best guesses:

§ 21-2-566  Interference with Primaries and Elections 

Under the Georgia Election Code—specifically, Ga. Code Ann. § 21-2-566—it is a felony to interfere with elections by engaging in one of eight enumerated acts: Any person who:

(8) Willfully tampers with any electors list, voter’s certificate, numbered list of voters, ballot box, voting machine, direct recording electronic (DRE) equipment, electronic ballot marker, or tabulating machine shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be sentenced to imprisonment for not less than one nor more than ten years or to pay a fine not to exceed $100,000.00, or both.

(Looking to the statutory text, the felony of willful tampering under Section 21-2-566(8) has two elements: (i) tampering with the specified materials and (ii) willfulness. Although “tampering” is not defined in this provision, Georgia law elsewhere explains that tampering with evidence occurs when a person (with the intent to obstruct justice) “knowingly destroys, alters, conceals, or disguises physical evidence or makes, devises, prepares, or plants false evidence.”)

 

§ 16-10-97. Intimidation or obstruction of jurors or court officers

(a) A person who by threat or force or by any threatening action, letter, or communication:

(1) Endeavors to intimidate or impede any grand juror or trial juror or any officer in or of any court of this state or any court of any county or municipality of this state or any officer who may be serving at any proceeding in any such court while in the discharge of such juror's or officer's duties;

 

§ 16-10-20. False statements and writings; concealment of facts

A person who knowingly and willfully falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact; makes a false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or makes or uses any false writing or document, knowing the same to contain any false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry, in any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of state government or of the government of any county, city, or other political subdivision of this state shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000.00 or by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years, or both.

§ 16-10-93. Influencing witnesses

(a) A person who, with intent to deter a witness from testifying freely, fully, and truthfully to any matter pending in any court, in any administrative proceeding, or before a grand jury, communicates, directly or indirectly, to such witness any threat of injury or damage to the person, property, or employment of the witness or to the person, property, or employment of any relative or associate of the witness or who offers or delivers any benefit, reward, or consideration to such witness or to a relative or associate of the witness shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years.

(b)(1) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to use intimidation, physical force, or threats; to persuade another person by means of corruption or to attempt to do so; or to engage in misleading conduct toward another person with intent to:

(A) Influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding;

(B) Cause or induce any person to:

(i) Withhold testimony or a record, document, or other object from an official proceeding;

(ii) Alter, destroy, mutilate, or conceal an object with intent to impair the object's integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding;

(iii) Evade legal process summoning that person to appear as a witness or to produce a record, document, or other object in an official proceeding; or

(iv) Be absent from an official proceeding to which such person has been summoned by legal process; or

(C) Hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer, prosecuting attorney, or judge of this state of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a criminal offense or a violation of conditions of probation, parole, or release pending judicial proceedings.

 

§ 16-11-37. Terroristic threats and acts

(a) As used in this Code section, the term “hazardous substance” shall have the same meaning as set forth in Code Section 12-8-92.

(b)(1) A person commits the offense of a terroristic threat when he or she threatens to:

(A) Commit any crime of violence;

(B) Release any hazardous substance; or

(C) Burn or damage property.

(2) Such terroristic threat shall be made:

(A) With the purpose of terrorizing another;

(B) With the purpose of causing the evacuation of a building, place of assembly, or facility of public transportation;

(C) With the purpose of otherwise causing serious public inconvenience; or

(D) In reckless disregard of the risk of causing the terror, evacuation, or inconvenience described in subparagraph (A), (B), or (C) of this paragraph.

 (xxv) Perjury and other related offenses in violation of Article 4 of Chapter 10 of this title   - You know his crew will obstruct and lie.

 Finally, two points: 1)  Defendants may be liable for conspiracy to violate Georgia's Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) if they knowingly and willfully join a conspiracy which itself contains a common plan or purpose to commit two or more predicate acts.  That means if Ladybugs or Rudy were working with Trump to get Georgia to go for Trump, just one phone call by them to Georgia Officials about the effort to change the vote for Trump, and they are co-conspirators under RICO.  2) Georgia has no continuity requirement.   By that I mean, if Big Joey the Crime Boss kills some union leader as a warning, that is just one murder. True, it is murder, but it is not RICO.  If Big Joey and his crew engage over a period of time in numerous acts to take over the union, eventually there are enough violations over enough time to meet the RICO continuity standard.  Plaintiffs do not have to show continuity to establish a pattern of racketeering activity under Georgia's Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), unlike for federal RICO claims.    IOW, the shorter timeframe of the November to January effort to infiltrate the legitimacy of the Georgia Election is enough to satisfy the Georgia RICO statute. 

Even though Trump’s calls to Raffensperger, Watson, and Carr failed, that only hardened his resolve to keep trying, as evidenced by his recurring calls to Georgia officials, his consistent attempts to get the U.S. Department of Justice to intervene, and his advancement of the false electors plan.  The intricacy of the plan by the Trump campaign to solicit and submit false electors also evidences Trump’s intent. Memos from Trump attorneys—Eastman, Chesebro, and Ellis— all describe in detail how “alternate slate  of electors” could overturn the election and allow Trump to retain the presidency. In the weeks after the election, Trump personally called the head of the RNC and had Eastman ask for their help assembling groups of false electors in Georgia and other swing states that Trump had lost. Emails from his staffers bluntly describe the purpose as being “so that ‘someone’ in Congress can make an objection when they start counting votes, and start arguing that the ‘fake’ votes should be counted.

I think it will be a wide ranging indictment, as every Trump loving asshole involved in Trump's false criticism of the Georgia election - and any plans to overturn Georgia's election thru calls or fake electors, makes each person who made just one call or who sent one email to anyone across state lines to help Trump with his attempt to overturn the Georgia election can be added as a co-conspirator for that single act - and have to lawyer up and defend the RICO conspiracy claim.  

 

TL;DR version

On 7/28/2023 at 2:38 PM, Gatorubet said:

Georgia DA has statutes that can fuck Trump & Co as far as indictment.  One phone call to fuck with Georgia elections could get you charged.  Sort of a scary abuse of rights, actually, but it was designed to get the mob. 
I think lots of trumps friends will be included in a conspiracy case. Could be wrong. Just my wild ass guess. 

Blame Jimmy.   

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dcbc

dcbc 14508

Posted
Posted (edited)

RICO has mandatory minimums in GA.  No probation!

 

 

Edit:  Last night, the DA said "no probation."  According to what we've discussed below, that may be her position as far as any deals she would offer, but it does not appear to be foreclosed by the GA community supervision statute.  The sentencing range for RICO is 5--20 or a fine or both.  Sorry for any confusion.

 

Edited by dcbc
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