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Cairn Horn88

By Cairn Horn88
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HillCountryBevo
HillCountryBevo

Imagine your basis of hating Trump is because of mean tweets, January 6 and “hush money” trial all because liberal media is crooked. Fuck right off. This is my last post in this forum  dumb fucki

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

When you're a court, you just grab their asset, and they let you do it!

HillCountryBevo
HillCountryBevo

Bye bitch. Enjoy living in literal hell if your man Biden is re elected

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31457

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Not his lawyer means no privilege claim, yes?

Yes. But there are easier ways to punch through the privilege like the presence of non lawyer non clients like Flynn and Byrnes at their meetings. 

 

Also the fat piece of shit may actually be right. Trump wasn't a party to her shitty lawsuits so not a client that way. If he had appointed her special counsel that would not have made him her client. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45920

Posted
Posted (edited)

@Beau Vine Lulz.  +1.  My wife and I were literally talking yesterday about the difference between Steve Martin (good dude) and Chevy Chase (dickhead) . . . on the square in Wimberley.  I thought about giving you a shout and asking how I might avoid the Trumpies, but it soon became clear that this was not happening, no matter the strategy.  At least one can now carry beer to go.

Edited by jimmyjazz
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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54220

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, Nothing To Add said:

I think at this point Trump would gladly spend a night in prison.  He already has his version of Mein Kampf ghostwritten and would be selling it within minutes of his release.  "The greatest book every written...only the Holy Bible comes close.  But that Jesus guy was a Jew and never really had any money so not really a good comparison.  Crying men have come to me and said it changed their lives.  Get it at the introductory price of $39.95 and for an extra $300 I will have someone forge my signature on your copy."

Man, if I thought there were any chance he'd end up in jail for this shit, I'd order one of his Never Surrender T-shirts so I could wear it every day until he was released.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31457

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, scottsins said:


What if you plead guilty, but not convicted?

Already raised that hypothetical. 

It does bring to mind that sometimes the distinction between felonies and misdemeanors can be pretty arbitrary. In the way only legislatures can be arbitrary. 

In many or most circumstances, it seems like you really ought to consider the nature of the crime. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31457

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, CTC2 said:

Anecdotally, I’ve served on the grievance committee and can say that probably 90% of the time it was on the level. 

One thing i have become aware of recently is that the discipline process seems more tilted now to district court proceedings, or at least they are easier to invoke than before.  And the 'probable cause" review of grievances seems unduly convoluted.  At least compared to the last system.

I do tend to think that something other than the usual district court proceedings are more appropriate.  NY got to Giuliani pretty quick, but they seem to be taking their time making anything final.  California seems to be about on the same schedule with Eastman.

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Captainant

Captainant 27661

Posted
Posted (edited)

Since this is the most active trump thread, posting here

https://www.mediaite.com/news/breaking-leaked-audio-of-australian-billionaire-talking-trump-secrets-released-by-60-minutes-australia/

On the recordings, Mr. Pratt recounts how Mr. Trump shared with him in December 2019 what he describes as elements of a conversation the president had with Iraq’s leader right after a U.S. military strike there aimed at Iranian-backed forces. Days later, a U.S. drone strike in Baghdad would kill Iran’s top security and intelligence commander.

At one point, Mr. Pratt said, Mr. Trump discussed the phone call he had with President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine earlier that year that had helped lead to Mr. Trump’s first impeachment. “That was nothing compared to what I usually do,” Mr. Trump said, in Mr. Pratt’s recounting.

It is not clear whether Mr. Pratt shared these accounts with prosecutors or whether prosecutors are aware of the recordings.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by Captainant
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BamaATL

BamaATL 16593

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Hmmm, that seems to be a fairly credible account, but I am unaware of any ground on which a pardon, delivered and accepted, can be revoked or overturned.

Crime/fraud exception?  Not sure there is such a thing at this level.  

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54220

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Hmmm, that seems to be a fairly credible account, but I am unaware of any ground on which a pardon, delivered and accepted, can be revoked or overturned.

Trump being very upset because something bad might happen to someone else also strains credibility.

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Horn Under a Bad Sign

Horn Under a Bad Sign 20397

Posted
Posted

I was just thinking that, were Trump to die, massive parts of a whole cottage industry will die with him. Nobody has his charisma with a certain twisted group of folks and nobody will seize his mantle because they'll be too busy accusing each other of whatever.  We here at Surlyhorns need to help spread the rumor that Trump didn't really die and that he faked his own death because of the relentless persecution but that he's been spotted in Russia blah blah blah and will return in two months. 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30235

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Captainant said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/08/bill-barr-donald-trumpjustice-department-mueller-obstruction-memo

https://www.citizensforethics.org/news/press-releases/crew-gets-secret-barr-memo-on-trump-obstruction/

Again, not a theory of conspiracy. We know it fucking happened. Stop telling me to not believe my lying eyes. 

I think the problem of the legal system is that it treats prior filings as serious documents even after it is thoroughly demonstrated it was bullshit. DOJ under Garland continued to not prosecute because he's an institutionalist and wouldn't want DOJ of the past to look bad. Even though it was an overt twisting of facts and tortured reasoning to justify non-action by Barr's DOJ. 

Its not a conspiracy of the legal profession to go soft on trump, but rather it's a fucking flaw in the system that's being exploited by our enemies. And I'm tired of people missing the forest for the trees because they know a bunch of Latin phrases and lack the curiosity to actually interrogate the past justifications before accepting them. 

TL;DR:  while I share your annoyance, and how long it’s taking and Trump getting preferential treatment, there is a bigger issue at play.

 

Ant, since we’re talking forest and trees and such, let me put it another way.Right now the appellate courts and Supreme Court are filled with Big 12 refs.  So with a close game and a field goal wins, when it’s third down and admittedly some valuable time has already been squandered calling a play, do you want the OC to send out a play with a bunch of substitutions with several players in motion and an unusual set - or do you send out a boring run play into the middle of the field to get you the best chance of winning the game with the field-goal?  Because the odds of the Big 12 refs calling a penalty exponentially increases in the first example.   This is especially true when we know the Big 12 refs will always call a bullshit penalty in that situation against the good guys unless everything is perfect - and even those assholes can’t call a penalty without some bullshit reason, and we know they are actively looking for some bullshit reason.

Demanding immediate justice and the fullest contempt penalty against Trump for his bullshit is like the first play example. The single most important thing is to NOT let Trump win an appealed contempt judgment or criminal conviction. The reason we don’t want this to happen is because it would justify the “witch-hunt” bullshit and justify his claims of deranged prosecutors - “See, I won on bigly on appeal!!!”

The problem is, there are lot of voters in the middle not paying attention, and his witch-hunt/deranged prosecutor bullshit would work with a lot of them if the Big 12 refs in the appellate courts overturn anything, that could lead to very bad things.  I guess what I’m saying is that it is critically important not to make a mistake.   The way not to make a mistake is to be thorough and slow and to give that asshole more chances than he deserves before you hit him with a serious contempt sanction.  

A conviction that cannot be overturned is the only fucking thing that matters.    Not quick, and not because the ex-president gets more leeway than your ordinary person.   Because an ordinary person is not going to get the preferential Big 12 ref treatment that Trump will get, as he appointed many of those and is responsible for them having that job.  If you step back and look at some of your complaints, some of that can be fixed by reducing the number of Big 12 refs.  We do that by having a Democratic President and Senate.   To get that Democratic President and Senate we need for Trump not to win on appeal on any conviction or contempt citation.  

That is the reality.  I admit I get angry when I see you bitching about the court personnel and prosecutors moving too slow. * Unlike your complaints, their efforts to convict Trump and run a fair trial make them all subject to attack by his crazy ass MAGA  army.  They need your support, not your continued refusal to acknowledge the fact that over 60 courts very quickly refuted the lies and entered the correct judgments.  I also get that acknowledging that fact does not fit your narrative.   Regardless, we are both on the same side and we both want the same thing. Trump fucked and in jail. 

( * over-served too many Bloody Marys at brunch may or may not have contributed to my post)

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31457

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

TL;DR:  while I share your annoyance, and how long it’s taking and Trump getting preferential treatment, there is a bigger issue at play.

 

Ant, since we’re talking forest and trees and such, let me put it another way.Right now the appellate courts and Supreme Court are filled with Big 12 refs.  So with a close game and a field goal wins, when it’s third down and admittedly some valuable time has already been squandered calling a play, do you want the OC to send out a play with a bunch of substitutions with several players in motion and an unusual set - or do you send out a boring run play into the middle of the field to get you the best chance of winning the game with the field-goal?  Because the odds of the Big 12 refs calling a penalty exponentially increases in the first example.   This is especially true when we know the Big 12 refs will always call a bullshit penalty in that situation against the good guys unless everything is perfect - and even those assholes can’t call a penalty without some bullshit reason, and we know they are actively looking for some bullshit reason.

Demanding immediate justice and the fullest contempt penalty against Trump for his bullshit is like the first play example. The single most important thing is to NOT let Trump win an appealed contempt judgment or criminal conviction. The reason we don’t want this to happen is because it would justify the “witch-hunt” bullshit and justify his claims of deranged prosecutors - “See, I won on bigly on appeal!!!”

The problem is, there are lot of voters in the middle not paying attention, and his witch-hunt/deranged prosecutor bullshit would work with a lot of them if the Big 12 refs in the appellate courts overturn anything, that could lead to very bad things.  I guess what I’m saying is that it is critically important not to make a mistake.   The way not to make a mistake is to be thorough and slow and to give that asshole more chances than he deserves before you hit him with a serious contempt sanction.  

A conviction that cannot be overturned is the only fucking thing that matters.    Not quick, and not because the ex-president gets more leeway than your ordinary person.   Because an ordinary person is not going to get the preferential Big 12 ref treatment that Trump will get, as he appointed many of those and is responsible for them having that job.  If you step back and look at some of your complaints, some of that can be fixed by reducing the number of Big 12 refs.  We do that by having a Democratic President and Senate.   To get that Democratic President and Senate we need for Trump not to win on appeal on any conviction or contempt citation.  

That is the reality.  I admit I get angry when I see you bitching about the court personnel and prosecutors moving too slow. * Unlike your complaints, their efforts to convict Trump and run a fair trial make them all subject to attack by his crazy ass MAGA  army.  They need your support, not your continued refusal to acknowledge the fact that over 60 courts very quickly refuted the lies and entered the correct judgments.  I also get that acknowledging that fact does not fit your narrative.   Regardless, we are both on the same side and we both want the same thing. Trump fucked and in jail. 

( * over-served too many Bloody Marys at brunch may or may not have contributed to my post)

I don't really agree on the Big XII refs.  The only Big XII ref out there seems to be Aileen Cannon.  Everyone else is playing it according to Hoyle, or with an additional dose of Trump skepticism, at least as pertains to Trump.

But yeah, a lot of these problems are traced to Congress, not to the legal system:  it's underfunded, Congress won't pass a criminal law that can really be used against government officials (or can't be given a clever name to deal with the moral panic du jour, SeX TraFFIcKing, or whatever), they killed off the special counsel statute that got special prosecutors truly independent from OAG, and so on and so forth.

Captainant's biggest problem is that he thinks an article in Vanity Fair, or something he "saw with his own EYES" translates into proof sufficient to sustain a conviction at the trial level and on appeal.  What he verily believes just doesn't get you there.  And that is also a common problem of the board.  I DREAMT IT IN MY HEAD, why not done.

And when the difficulties of indicting and convicting on a criminal case where the laws don't quite exactly fit the crimes, or disbarring Sidney Powell for unprecedented actions, he just bears down on the stubborn  I SEEN IT IN MY HEAD and then goes off on tangents about other problems with the justice system.

And then he accuses those who understand and explain why it is the way it is, for better or worse, of not seeing the forest for the trees.  The forest is the trees.  Without the trees, there's no forest.  You can't change the laws on the fly to secure a desirable result.  That's just not the way it works.  You can sit there and wish it were different, but that's just pissing in the wind.

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30235

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't really agree on the Big XII refs.  The only Big XII ref out there seems to be Aileen Cannon.  Everyone else is playing it according to Hoyle, or with an additional dose of Trump skepticism, at least as pertains to Trump.

Meh, I was looking for a non-lawyer analogy.  I agree generally, but as long as SCOTUS is dicey as hell, I want an air-tight trial with no grounds for reversal. DC circuit isn’t a worry, but I don’t feel so sanguine about the 11th.

Ant is like me entering a conversation of motor-heads (I know nothing about cars) demanding 40 mpg for the latest muscle cars.  I mean, yeah, that would be waaaay preferable.  Who could argue with that?  But then there’s that pesky problem with how things actually work in design and production. 

IMG_1829.gif.4b87d2449041773e9d4515c0bc2c312e.gif

Edited by Gatorubet
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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32389

Posted
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The sad part of each trump story is that his main opponents in the GOP primary will not condemn him or even criticize him. Christie will but that also keeps him at 1%. 

 

Because every one of them (except Christie, and Pence for obvious reasons) is auditioning for a potential future role in a Trump II cabinet, VP slot, or something.  Thing is, we all know that isn't going to happen for any of them, because Trump sees them as disloyal by running against him.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Francisco 2.0
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31457

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Another midnight rant about the judge and prosecutor

Which one?  Source?

The DC gag order is apparently stayed for a moment pending appeal.  If Chutkan doesn't continue the stay, the DC Circuit will rule on it.  

Given that it's stayed, I think he has a reprieve on that.

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Captainant

Captainant 27661

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Which one?  Source?

The DC gag order is apparently stayed for a moment pending appeal.  If Chutkan doesn't continue the stay, the DC Circuit will rule on it.  

Given that it's stayed, I think he has a reprieve on that.

Here's the rant (image in spoiler)

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/111282184622212722

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.205a6b3bcdb7a9369193327a25c85102.png

Seems like something that was explicitly warned against by the judge - most criminal defendants would have been hit with contempt of court by now, but we can't use the rules against trump because then he'll actually win or something?

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30235

Posted
Posted
On 10/22/2023 at 2:22 PM, Chewbacca said:

Man, you guys will bend over backwards to defend shitheads, and then you wonder why the public has so little trust in your profession.

Being a lawyer isn't a right, it's a privilege, and should be treated as such.

A large portion of the public does not think we should have public defenders defending criminal defendants….’cause criminals.  Many of those people use liquid smoke in their barbecue.  All you can do is throw a “bless their heart” their way and keep on doing what you do.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25924

Posted
Posted
On 10/22/2023 at 11:39 AM, Gatorubet said:

TL;DR Version - Ant keeps saying  “I didn’t make the JV cheer squad” sad feelings shit, because he was asleep in civics and refuses to accept explanations on things he is ignorant about.  He also apparently wants to give Trump the best shot at beating conviction. 

As to your first ignorant thing, prior to January 6 they were about 60 cases decided by the courts quickly debunking every attempt to show the election was stolen. Which is why the chucklehead defendants came up with the alternative electors scheme. The reason they came up with the scheme is because the courts, in fact, did determine quickly that what he was saying was a lie, and they all ruled accordingly. Short version; you’re full of shit.

In your second ignorant thing, you again ignore the fact that the DOJ for a half century had a memo saying you can’t indict a sitting president for criminal actions while he is an office. While I think that was wrongly issued, that explains the delay from 2016 until early 2021 when Biden’s DOJ was free to pursue stuff.   You have been told that numerous times, but refuse to accept it, and you link that DOJ memo’s delay to some cosmic lawyer planned scheme to delay criminal actions against Trump. It is a very MAGA-esque conspiracy theory. While you can argue that Garland should’ve been quicker, he appointed Jack and Trump is now facing multiple trials in multiple venues, and will be fucked in all of them.   And here is another point for those who flunked civics class: whether it was the worst attack on democracy, the worst serial killer in the world, or the worst anything, the speed in which the trials happen are the same as if it were a lesser offense. That is due process, and the right to do all the things that defendants do when they file various motions that may late in the trial is a right afforded to every defended everywhere no matter what the crime.   We do not say due process does not apply if it’s the most serious of crimes. In fact, it is exactly the opposite. For the most serious of crimes prosecutors want to be sure they got it right and so spend extra time prior to bringing charges to make sure they have every single T crossed, and I dotted.  

As to the last ignorant thing, can rich people who have better attorneys who can spend more money and time on a case, and file more motions given the greater resources, prolong the inevitable conviction? Yes, but I don’t know how we can create a system that says that rich people with lots of money can’t hire more lawyers that may slow down things a bit.  See again, due process.    Our democracy is annoying like that but also singularly impressive and that we have due process.  If you have been holding back Captainant’s solution to wealth inequality in the world, please let us know the solution.   Some of us recognize that aspect, something we call “reality”, but you do you.

Finally, although all the Trump appointed judges in district courts and courts of appeal did not rule in his favor on the stolen election shit, that does NOT mean they all became progressive judges  Admittedly, on that  important fake election issue siding with Trump was a Bridge Too Far - even for them.   It is an entirely different matter for a Trump judge on a court of appeal reviewing, whether Trump should be sanctioned or convicted criminally.   Literally the smartest and best way to assure that any contempt order or conviction stands on appeal or eventually with POTUS is to take conservative incremental steps in contempt actions.   The district court judges trying these cases know that the best way to ensure that the contempt orders against Trump will be validated on appeal is to appear the opposite of hot-headed.  This means not whacking Trump to the best of your contempt powers on his first or second violation, however, annoying that may look to you.  You see, it is not just Trump that appellate courts look to to see if there were lesser options available before whatever contempt was imposed. This view has nothing to do with Trump, but is a view expressed by appellate courts because there are a lot of hotheaded lower court judges who improperly use their content powers. Time has shown that a lower court being cautious when issuing contempt rulings is the very best way to ensure that ultimate contempt sanction is affirmed on appeal.    

I know you want to immediately have prosecutors file and try cases - and you want the first time Trump does something egregious to have him slapped with the worst contempt sanctions possible.     What you are asking for is the greatest likelihood that Trump will win on these things, and that the trial will be lost. The DOJ is notoriously slow, but when the DOJ and dates you are usually Uber fucked because of the thoroughness.     So fuck you in your urging a policy that is more likely to help trump in the long run and allow him to evade justice.  Justice not being swift is still justice. Eliminating any and all avenues of Trump overturning his convictions on appeal is the only fucking thing I care about. Why?  Because as an attorney, I know that is the best way to convict a motherfucker and make it stick.  Feel free to keep complaining that we did not hang him from a tree the first day.  While I like that idea, I wasn’t asleep in civics class, and in 30 years of being a trial lawyer I understand how courts work and the best way to get appellate courts to uphold the lower courts.  Everything I’m saying is 100% true. So feel free to continue hating the truth and wanting to create an alternate universe where lawyers are not trying to get Trump. The DOJ and district courts are trying to get Trump, but they are trying to do it intelligently.    You are advocating that they do it quickly and stupidly because you are ignorant about the judicial process, and because you have sad feels.  It annoys me to hear you bitch about a process that is being smart and increasing the odds of convicting him. Jesus, you post this days after Sidney and Chesbro flip.  That is HUGE!!!  But I guess that, to you, is Trump winning.  

 

 

tl;dr they're doing everything possible to make the charges against Trump stick, which may appear to the typical uneducated, unwashed, plebian Colorado alumnus like they're moving too slowly or being too gentle

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25924

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I had a similar thought but slightly different:  the Baron and the lead singer from Oingo Boingo.

 

3 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

wasn't that Danny Elfman?

Oh good lord, from his Wikipedia:

"Elfman has admitted to fabricating stories about his past out of boredom, including a false birthplace of Amarillo, Texas, and parents in the United States Air Force.[19]"

why ... why would you ever...

1a5e9321-9cfa-4867-855f-50aaee4b5424_tex

of the many lies you could tell, why THAT?

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19450

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

wasn't that Danny Elfman?

The dad of the broad from “Dharma & Greg”?  
 

i know Trump thinks Mar-a-Lago is multiples times higher in value than it really is.  But does he actually believe it’s also a single family home?  When he wanders down into weddings and white supremacist suppers, does he just think like, “oh; look at all these people in my dining room!”  ??

for a guy, you know…IN REAL ESTATE, his knowledge of the various asset types within that world is strangely off.  

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