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YGIFS · February 16

Non/Ubsubordinated/Senior debt goes first. Whatever the fuck they call it there. Then probably pref mezz/equity. When they're done, the government and vultures come. Somewhere in there though, there---as is custom in every corner of our nation---A Sheriff comes to serve notice and documents. It's mostly a performative gesture at that point.

But what my hypothetical presupposes is...what if it wasn't? What if somebody has been winding up MAGA radicals online to think that when they come to serve Trump properties, these law enforcement agents are viewed as deep state agents of Biden and some armed MAGA diehards got into fire-fights with them in order to help their Orange God? What if, as is county law, the date of serving and seizure has to be publicly announced ahead of time so that the MAGA gun guys knew where and when to be? What if you finally figured out to get these people to murder one another? What if you spent a year contemplating it and now a common courtesy asset notice was the trigger you've been looking for all along? What if there was an army of angry people online that just needed some direction, some guidance, some inspiration, and a target? Oops.

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand · February 16

Just now, Chewbacca said:

As has been mentioned, either the Saudis, Putin, or Musk will pony up the money for an appeal.

I believe Michael Cohen was insistent that wasn't going to happen in one of the MT podcasts but can't recall him giving the reason for that, though I could be mistaken on that.

immamac · February 16

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

They can domesticate the judgment in other states where he has assets if that is an issue. Full faith and credit bro. But, frankly, I have to think there are enough assets in NY alone to make this super painful for him regardless.

Of course they can. They just take ownership subject to those liens. If they sell, they have to satisfy the liens.

That reduces the percentage of the asset applied to the judgment, not whether they asset can be seized.

Thanks. I guess I just figured why would they seize an asset that they got nothing out of and no one would really buy at auction. Wouldn’t the lien holders effectively be able to offer their lien amounts as the opening bid and if no outside group came they would pay themselves the money they are already owed and have the building with the state getting nothing?

The Dog · February 16

2 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

So what happens when he's upside down on all this, the state gets screwed or the asset lien holders, all other lien holders I presume pretty much all get screwed?

and it serves them right for those dumbasses to be loaning that deadbeat money in the first place.

Dahobbs · February 16

1 minute ago, immamac said:

Thanks. I guess I just figured why would they seize an asset that they got nothing out of and no one would really buy at auction. Wouldn’t the lien holders effectively be able to offer their lien amounts as the opening bid and if no outside group came they would pay themselves the money they are already owed and have the building with the state getting nothing?

If the asset was completely underwater, sure, that could be a problem. But while he is highly leveraged, he isn't that leveraged.

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand · February 16

When you're a court, you just grab their asset, and they let you do it!

Brisketexan · February 16

4 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

So what happens when he's upside down on all this, the state gets screwed or the asset lien holders, all other lien holders I presume pretty much all get screwed?

That could absolutely be the case. If he's functionally bankrupt (liabilities exceed value of assets), then yeah....there ain't no money for anyone to get paid. It means that he's broke, and the whole world will know that he's broke. It happens. There was definitely a day in my life that I owed more than all my shit was worth -- you couldn't have gotten a penny out of me. Young and poor, it happens. Old and pretending to be rich, but actually poor? A bit less common.

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

Thanks. I guess I just figured why would they seize an asset that they got nothing out of and no one would really buy at auction. Wouldn’t the lien holders effectively be able to offer their lien amounts as the opening bid and if no outside group came they would pay themselves the money they are already owed and have the building with the state getting nothing?

That could happen. That's why the state will get an actual FMV appraisal of any property before they go through the effort of seizing it. Because if the building is really worth $100 million and has $50 million in liens on it, it's very unlikely that at auction it will sell for just the $50 million the lienholder might bid. It may go for less than $100 million, but it will almost certainly go for more than $50 million. And hey, if it goes for $75 million because it's a sale of a foreclosed asset, tough shit for Donny. The state still gets $25 million. It's just gonna take the sale of more assets till Donny's debt gets paid off.

jimmyjazz · February 16

4 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

When you're a court, you just grab their asset, and they let you do it!

Brisketexan · February 16

3 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

When you're a court, you just grab their asset, and they let you do it!

tbone_ · February 16

Maybe all the magas will just buy all his shit and give it back to him like people did for Willie.

Or maybe not.

tx 3 putt · February 16

😂😂😂😂😂

Both Don Jr. and Eric Trump are young and both men are currently overseeing Trump Organization day to day. On the contrary, as a 77-year old, Trump’s involvement in the company has reportedly been limited in recent years.

This ruling has essentially left Don Jr. and Eric Trump unemployed.

Second, the fact that Donald Trump and the Trump Organization are both banned from applying for loans from any New York-chartered financial institutions for 3 years makes it incredibly hard for Trump to actually afford the judgment.

Together with the E. Jean Carroll verdict, Trump is now responsible for almost $450 MILLION in penalties - an amount that would wipe out nearly every penny of cash he reportedly has.

TwiceHorn · February 16

37 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Next move is yours, Melanie.

Technically speaking, it would seem the creditors have a claim against the marital estate and have had for some time now. It's just liquidated now. If they got divorced tomorrow, Melania would be liable for her share of this debt according to NY law, whatever that is. The liens don't make a shit.

In Texas, creditors like James can intervene in a divorce and insure their claims are satisfied before a property division. I imagine there's something similar in NY law.

Rimbo · February 16

46 minutes ago, miguelito said:

So, to appeal, does he have to put up a large sum of money first? I thought I read that somewhere.

apparently, and for both cases:

Quote

Trump is expected to immediately appeal the decision, but doing so will be a logistical nightmare. New York requires that a person seeking to pause this kind of judgment immediately front a massive sum, anywhere from 110 percent to 120 percent of the judgment. And while Trump boasted in sworn testimony last year that he had some $400 million in cash, that wouldn’t be enough to cover this bank fraud judgment and last month’s $83 million verdict in his rape defamation case. Both cases require him to post the money up front, squeezing him at the same time.

(This was quoted by some dipshit on Reddit who didn't include the source, so... take it with a grain of salt)

TwiceHorn · February 16

3 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

apparently, and for both cases:

(This was quoted by some dipshit on Reddit who didn't include the source, so... take it with a grain of salt)

Again, posting a bond is not a prerequisite to appeal, in most jurisdictions, including federal and Texas. It does, however, prevent the plaintiff from executing on any judgment pending the appeal.

Rimbo · February 16

38 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

For the E. Jean Carroll deal at least, I understood that the supersedeas "bond" is functionally the full cash amount of the judgment, plus some stout percentage like another 10% (NY law -- not my area of practice). But that's stout. Want to keep E. Jean from collecting on her judgment while you appeal? You gotta put $85 million -- maybe closer to $95 million -- in the registry of the court. You got that kinda cash laying around, Donny boy?

Also, as to Rimbo, here's the issue I have with your confidence: what we're facing in Trump and Trumpism isn't an ordinary back-and-forth political swing thing. It's an existential crisis. He has openly stated that he wants to end the Republic, and he has tens of millions of supporters who want him to do just that. And yes, those of us who have read up on German history are fucking horrified by the parallels. So, to take us back to that time, let me tell you when this battle is won:

It's won after Hitler blows his own brains out, and his body is burned and hastily disposed of.

It's won when the Japanese actually sign the documents of unconditional surrender on the deck of the Missouri in Tokyo Bay.

And not ONE SECOND before those things happen. Run all the way through the finish line, then run another 100 yards just to be fucking sure. No resting. No prediction of victory. No cockiness. Just fucking relentless attacks, making the rubble bounce when we can't find any other primary targets worth a shit because we've already blown everything up. We were fighting for the future of the world and our country in 1945, we're fighting for the life of the Republic now. We need to approach it the same way. Believe that you very well could lose every single moment until you've actually got the surrender papers signed, and don't act differently even a second before.

Yeah, but you actually know a thing or two about what you're talking about. You and I, we have a difference of opinion that's based on weighing facts differently. But at least facts and knowledge are involved, here.

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

And in this post you just admitted that you also COULD be wrong now. And no one's going to ask you to change your views. But it is PROBABLY reasonable, for a man who claims to have changed so much, to maybe just maybe tone down the "You are all fucking ignorant dipshits who don't know what the fuck you're talking about or witnessing becuase I voraciously read law blogs" bullshit attitude because you just admitted you could be fucking wrong.

Oh, I admitted it several posts before that, too. And all throughout.

But if you want me to change my view, you actually have to be able to show me something I'm not already taking into account, or show me why I'm weighing the data wrongly, or otherwise be speaking at a level where I can say, "Gee, I hadn't considered that" or "gee, maybe I'm weighing this too heavily/not enough." Ya gotta be able to back your opinion up with something real.

I'm not going to reconsider my views over simian fecal tossing. I'm going to give that the disrespect it deserves.

TwiceHorn · February 16

34 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Isn't the government first in lien lines pretty much at all times?

Among unsecured creditors, in most cases, yes. But all unsecured debt is subordinate to secured debt. And if it becomes secured by judgment lien, it's by time. A judgment lien is kind of a bastard thing compared to a security interest by agreement.

Rimbo · February 16

33 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They absolutely can, and do. All the time.

Say that Trump owns a property worth $100 million, with $50 million in liens on it. The state forecloses on that property - it's a judgment foreclosure. The state then sells the property for $100 million. The lien holders are paid FIRST -- so the first $50 million goes to them. Then the next $50 million goes to the state, towards paying off the $360 million he owes. Or, if he owed less than $50 million (say, he only owed $40 million), then the first $50 million goes to the lienholders, the next $40 million goes to the state to pay off the judgment, and the excess proceeds of $10 million go to Trump.

Lots of assets are subject to the claims of secured creditors/lienholders. Those assets aren't immune to seizure, bankruptcy sale, etc. There's just an order of payment provided by the law to make the lienholders whole. Having assets that are encumbered by debt isn't a novel thing. The legal system thought of this scenario long ago, and has a set script that it follows.

The beauty of this, to me, is that might actually see the real market value of the properties.

Red Five · February 16

Dotard speaking nonsense now. "I was fined $355 million dollars for building a perfect company."

"If I'm not successful in my appeal, then the state of New York will be gone."

Edited February 16 by Red Five

Bullneck · February 16

"I paid these taxes and the migrants moved in."

Longhorn_Fan68 · February 16

finally got a chance to catch up and all I have to say is:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4th&Five · February 16

Saw somewhere the interest is backdated to 2019, so it’s actually much more than $360. True?

Underdog · February 16

Don’t fully understand all of this but let me just add that it’s FUCKING BEAUTIFUL!

Bullneck · February 16

PBI in the house!!!

"this is one of the greatest financial statements ever done!"

Nice Guy Eddie · February 16

Trump may not care much about these judgements because he’s close enough to dying that he probably has enough assets to not really impact his spending ability. If you’re Don Jr or Eric, your future money is quickly drying up.

of course Trump has to worry about his freedom with the upcoming trials.

Biff Tannen · February 16

1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

No matter what MAGA says, the session with the Obama impersonator is going to be her biggest payday.

Barack or Michelle?

Biff Tannen · February 16

1 hour ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

As I am understand it, the provision that bars him from obtaining a loan from a NY licensed institution is big because it prevents him from posting a bond and appealing.

As am I

SydneyCarton · February 16

27 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Yeah, but you actually know a thing or two about what you're talking about. You and I, we have a difference of opinion that's based on weighing facts differently. But at least facts and knowledge are involved, here.

Oh, I admitted it several posts before that, too. And all throughout.

But if you want me to change my view, you actually have to be able to show me something I'm not already taking into account, or show me why I'm weighing the data wrongly, or otherwise be speaking at a level where I can say, "Gee, I hadn't considered that" or "gee, maybe I'm weighing this too heavily/not enough." Ya gotta be able to back your opinion up with something real.

I'm not going to reconsider my views over simian fecal tossing. I'm going to give that the disrespect it deserves.

I literally said in the post you quoted that no one would ask you to change your view, you non reading fuck.

TexArcher · February 16

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

He types like an 11-year-old who thinks boobs probably feel like bags of sand.

Chewbacca · February 16

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

I literally said in the post you quoted that no one would ask you to change your view, you non reading fuck.

He reads a lot about politics and history. He doesn't read your posts.

TexEx15 · February 16

Rimbo · February 16

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

He reads a lot about politics and history. He doesn't read your posts.

☝️ truth

RDCanecutter · February 16

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

literal armed deputies show up and take shit (anything that's moveable, like gold-plated dining tables and such).

Big deputies, strong deputies, tears in their eyes as they move those tables, those beautiful perfect tables.

Pato del Muerto · February 16

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

Pato del Muerto · February 16

11 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Barack or Michelle?

FFM

Bullneck · February 16

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

FFM

The Federally Facilitated Marketplace (FFM) is an organized marketplace for health insurance plans operated by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

YGIFS · February 16

Alright, let us begin.

There's to be a Freedom Convoy to his first to be seized property. How do we know? Well, it'll be publicly announced in papers of record and government websites. The date and location have to be, by law, be announced in advance. We rile up MAGA's to ride there ahead of time. Shouldn't be hard. Shit, I'll send 'em gas cards. You tell them to come heavy and form a human barricade in front of whichever property it is that may be seized BY THE ILLEGAL AND POLITICAL WITCH-HUNT JUDGE FROM THE DEEP STATE. And then feed 'em some meth at Waffle House and watch the bullets fly. I finally got it. I've been whining to you folks for a couple years but this is it. This is how we get them to start murdering one another. They didn't know that "Civil War" mean them firing upon each other. Oh my god, this is gonna be better than LSD-flavored viagra. Keep an eye out for public notices on forfeiture. Tell the MAGA's in your life to go heavy or go home.

And for the record, I gave Brisket a $1 one time so this is me telling you all that I had nothing to do with this. There will be casualties. But it's a sacrifice I'm willing to let other people make.

We're almost there folks. Sorry it took me so long to sort it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gatorubet · February 16

39 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Dotard speaking nonsense now. "I was fined $355 million dollars for building a perfect company."

"If I'm not successful in my appeal, then the state of New York will be gone."

Narrator: If he is reelected and doesn’t win his appeal, he is ordering a nuclear strike against New York.

Underdog · February 16

“Perfect company”?
How many bankruptcies have there been?

Brisketexan · February 16

9 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

FFM

6 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

The Federally Facilitated Marketplace (FFM) is an organized marketplace for health insurance plans operated by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

Sure. That's what a search of "FFM" turned up for you.

Homercles · February 16

Ok so tell me how this is horrible news for democrats

Surly Bevo · February 16

Crooked Joe Biden concocted inflation to force The Fed to raise interest rates hurting my Perfect Company!

Underdog · February 16

Negged. Bird Lady is much, much too good for Trump to play.

Brisketexan · February 16

4 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Narrator: If he is reelected and doesn’t win his appeal, he is ordering a nuclear strike against New York.

I mean.....here's the thing. We're posting absurdist, insane, hyperbolic takes on this board. That's what we do.

Except....under a Donald Trump presidency II, they aren't entirely insane or hyperbolic. The chances of Term Two Trump ordering an actual military strike against a US state that pisses him off are not just non-zero, they are a positive integer. This is fucking insanity.

Biff Tannen · February 16

1 minute ago, Underdog said:

Negged. Bird Lady is much, much too good for Trump to play.

Can he play Marv so he can get pelted in the face with bricks?

Edited February 16 by Biff Tannen
mixed up ma burglers

Js1 · February 16

1 minute ago, Homercles said:

Ok so tell me how this is horrible news for democrats

I’ll wait for NYT pitch bot to chime in

Underdog · February 16

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Can he play Marv so he can get pelted in the face with bricks?

BamaATL · February 17

Question for those that know PAC law. My understanding is that it's basically illegal to take PAC or Super PAC money and convert it to personal funds. There is grey area on this, but not likely $550 million worth of grey area. With a Conservator/Monitor, I have to imagine any capital infusion would be intensely scrutinized.

Do I have this correct?

YGIFS · February 17

Just now, BamaATL said:

Question for those that know PAC law. My understanding is that it's basically illegal to take PAC or Super PAC money and convert it to personal funds. There is grey area on this, but not likely $550 million worth of grey area. With a Conservator/Monitor, I have to imagine any capital infusion would be intensely scrutinized.

Do I have this correct?

as brisket would say, "Oh my sweet summer child."

Do you even 'Processing Fee', bro?

Watch what happens next. I say this as somebody who has spent years in fin-tech and banking. This is going to create a whole new sub-vertical of digital banking. This is going to be absolutely incredibly to watch. Good news---gonna hurt him------------a lot. Bad news---we don't currently have any laws against it because, as usual, our prize lack of imagination. Nobody thought to do this. But Steve Bannon has already established the de novo charter for it through a shell corp. Say what you want about these fuckers, they are pretty fucking creative at finding the choke points in our Republic.

BamaATL · February 17

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

as brisket would say, "Oh my sweet summer child."

Do you even 'Processing Fee', bro?

Watch what happens next. I say this as somebody who has spent years in fin-tech and banking. This is going to create a whole new sub-vertical of digital banking. This is going to be absolutely incredibly to watch. Good news---gonna hurt him------------a lot. Bad news---we don't currently have any laws against it because, as usual, our prize lack of imagination. Nobody thought to do this. But Steve Bannon has already established the de novo charter for it through a shell corp. Say what you want about these fuckers, they are pretty fucking creative at finding the choke points in our Republic.

Bannon's about to go on trial for that though, and he isn't under near the scrutiny this will be.

bolverk · February 17

$355 million fine for fraud + $100 million interest + $83 million for defaming Carroll =

538 MILLION DOLLARS

Edited February 17 by bolverk

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