Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty

[Rimbo 25772]

5 hours ago, BamaATL said:

So apparently Trump wants to file a "counter judgment" with Engoron, and subsequently negotiate.  Next time I get a traffic ticket I'm just going to reply with my own counter ticket and negotiate with the court.  I bet that goes well for me.  

is this even a thing that exists

oh Twice got me, nevermind

Edited February 21 by Rimbo

[BamaATL 16592]

23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I was like wtf but now I understand the issue. 

There can be a difference between an opinion that explains the reasoning and a judgment that states the conclusion and operative terms of the judgment. Like the DC Circuit released the opinion and a judgment on immunity simultaneously as separate documents. 

Sometimes it can be hard to tell if an opinion IS the judgment or not.   The test is whether the document in question disposes of all the issues and all the parties.  This is an incredibly common controversy.  

One of the problems it causes is that you usually have 30 days from the date of the judgment, not the opinion, in which to appeal. So it can cause premature appeals or belated appeals.  Belated appeals are untimely and do not go forward. 

Engorons order left some issues open namely the precise terms of the supervision. So it is probably not a judgment.

Recognizing this, James' office filed a proposed judgment for Engoron to sign finishing everything off.  This is not uncommon, but usually the other party has the opportunity to object to the proposed judgment and propose their own. Maybe in NY practice that's called a counter judgment. In Texas and federal practice, that's a weird name. 

As scottsins points out sometimes the trial judge will give the winner the sole right to draft the judgment, at the risk of creating an an issue for appeal if they are too heavy handed.  But that is in accordance with what the judge orders and Engoron didn't order anything as far as we know James office just did this unilaterally apparently. 

The process does present something of an opportunity to negotiate, not with Engoron, but with James office over the precise terms of things like the supervision. 

The whole mess may add a few days to the time for appeal, depending on when Engoron signs a conclusive judgment. But that's more his fault for leaving matters unresolved in the opinion that we have seen than anything anyone else is doing. 

I had a feeling one of you could explain this, because at least on it's face it sounded completely absurd.  That said, apparently this was stated by Kise.  

['stache 21761]

7 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

This isn’t complicated. 

You set up a website and say for every dollar donated you send one prayer 

Even better if you start it as a chain email. 

10 dollars for prayers for Donald Trump. Donate and send to 15 people or God will ignore your prayers for a week

Profit 

I’m in, but you need a hell of an actor to pull it off. I couldn’t say that shit with a straight face much less convincingly. I know some people in show business, let’s get rich y’all!

[Surly Bevo 24695]

Dumb and Dumber settled this years ago Dotard

[tx 3 putt 76314]

 

[TwiceHorn 31263]

7 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I had a feeling one of you could explain this, because at least on it's face it sounded completely absurd.  That said, apparently this was stated by Kise.  

Yeah agreed it sounds absurd, but isn't really, subject to the ins and outs of NY practice. 

Kise is beclowning himself but is a serious enough lawyer to be taken seriously until shown otherwise. 

[Huckleberry 32694]

Beclowning oneself is the gold standard of doing something to show you shouldn't be taken seriously. 

[tx ind 6997]

42 minutes ago, brakeman said:

Pssssh, that only a couple hundred pairs of shoes he needs to sell each day to cover that nut 

[BamaATL 16592]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

Beclowning oneself is the gold standard of doing something to show you shouldn't be taken seriously. 

At least with Kise you can kind of understand it, he already got paid.  I don't think he's known for doing anything generally speaking clownish like the rest of them; he's known for being quite competent.  

[Gatorubet 30083]

8 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

At least with Kise you can kind of understand it, he already got paid.  I don't think he's known for doing anything generally speaking clownish like the rest of them; he's known for being quite competent.  

If that doesn’t work, then Habba Dabba Doo will be forced to file a writ of replevin

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

3 hours ago, safe sex said:

Well, you see, the question of whether or not you can negotiate a counter judgment has never been asked in court before so we'll need to take a few months to figure it out

 

Gonna have to appeal this all the way to the Supreme Court. 

 

 

1 hour ago, scottsins said:

Nope. The trial court judge can just refuse to even have a hearing on the motion, if he chooses.

 

This also. But only after the above has been ruled on. 

 

 

46 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

 

And then finally (lol "finally") appeal this. 

 

 

 

[tx 3 putt 76314]

NY Supreme Court since it’s a state issue ?

[TwiceHorn 31263]

2 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

NY Supreme Court since it’s a state issue ?

Yeah there's no way this goes to Washington. And NYS appeal to the top court (NY State Court of Appeals) is also discretionary, so unless they can come up with something more than they have in terms of a novel or important question of NY law, the forthcoming appeal (Supreme Court Appellate Division) is probably the end of the road. 

[Hookah Horns 3073]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah there's no way this goes to Washington. And NYS appeal to the top court (NY State Court of Appeals) is also discretionary, so unless they can come up with something more than they have in terms of a novel or important question of NY law, the forthcoming appeal (Supreme Court Appellate Division) is probably the end of the road. 

After the NY courts are done I'm certain that the Trump legal braintrust will conjure up some specious constitutional issue that they'll shit out onto SCOTUS' doorstep to try to at least get a stay. 

[Hookah Horns 3073]

Sidebar: New York gets an F for how they've named and organized their court system. I'm convinced they had the intention of confusing non-residents. It appears they have no idea what "supreme" means, and having an intermediate "appellate division" a level below the "court of appeals" is regarded. 

 

[YGIFS 19449]

1 hour ago, brakeman said:

$87,502 cash, plus tip! 

"Sorry Carroll, don't have a dime on me."

Didn't ask for a dime.  cash.  

[RDCanecutter 26249]

8 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Here you go (spoilered for work):

  Hide contents

 

Maybe use a photo from before she started melting.

[Hookah Horns 3073]

8 hours ago, BamaATL said:

I knew a guy in school that was going on a first date with a lady back in his home (small) town Alabama while on break.  He picked her up for the date and she was adorned in a confederate mini skirt.  He had planned on going to a nice dinner, etc.  Instead, he went to Blockbuster, rented Amistad and they watched that, after viewing he took her home.  According to him, she had no clue as to why things had gone that way.  

(I still think he hit it).  

I'd have gone with Glory but that's not bad. 

[tbone_ 14020]

https://www.morningstar.com/news/marketwatch/2024022066/cha-ching-how-trump-is-making-4-billion-from-his-2024-campaign-for-president

Not sure what to make of this

[Francisco 2.0 32318]

 

 

 

[Gatorubet 30083]

16 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

https://www.morningstar.com/news/marketwatch/2024022066/cha-ching-how-trump-is-making-4-billion-from-his-2024-campaign-for-president

Not sure what to make of this

If Trump’s history continues, truth social will make the stockholders all lose a ton of money, and that asshole will have sold his stock in some insider trading deal when he saw it was going south and wind up with a bunch of money.  Everything Trump touches turns to shit, so if those investors want to touch him, fine.

[BamaATL 16592]

17 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

https://www.morningstar.com/news/marketwatch/2024022066/cha-ching-how-trump-is-making-4-billion-from-his-2024-campaign-for-president

Not sure what to make of this

Counter Point - https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-stock-related-to-donald-trumps-truth-social-is-flying-high-before-you-invest-read-this-6a5e2df3

A couple of highlights

In the nine months to September 2023, the business suffered a $10.6 million operating loss on just $3.4 million in sales. 

Meanwhile, somehow. it racked up $37.7 million in interest expenses. 

Total Truth Social sign-ups to date? Er… 8.9 million people.

It also lists all of Trumps other failures.  

 

This screams pump and dump scam, always has.  It's also telling that we first got this magical $4 billion number a day before Engoron's penalties were released.  It's almost like this leaked at the same time to offset a certain someone's ego.  

All that having been said, if stupid people buy, and if he can dump a shit load of shares quick (not sure he can), he will make some scratch.  How much, I guess we shall see.  

 

 

[Pato del Muerto 52339]

25 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

If republicans voters want to pay trump’s bills, there’s a gfm set up already claiming to be giving him the money to cover the judgements- or presumably legal fees to erase the judgments.  How’s that piling up?  But more to the point, let that be the mechanism for that and let rnc donations go to what they always have gone to. 
 

but- trump needs all of everyone’s money. 

[Horn Dog 9671]

10 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If republicans voters want to pay trump’s bills, there’s a gfm set up already claiming to be giving him the money to cover the judgements- or presumably legal fees to erase the judgments.  How’s that piling up?  But more to the point, let that be the mechanism for that and let rnc donations go to what they always have gone to. 
 

but- trump needs all of everyone’s money. 

I have to disagree.  Let ALL of it, especially the RNC donations go to Trumps attorneys and leave absolutely none for any other GQP candidate.  This is the way.

[Rimbo 25772]

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

https://www.morningstar.com/news/marketwatch/2024022066/cha-ching-how-trump-is-making-4-billion-from-his-2024-campaign-for-president

Not sure what to make of this

ever heard of "pump-n-dump?"

[C-Man 27041]

 
 
 

[NWBuck 8547]

1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

ever heard of "pump-n-dump?"

By Trump on chumps 

[Born to Run 6565]

Maybe use a photo from before she started melting.

That young lady does a hilarious comedy bit where her Gunt mouth fold does impressions of various local townsfolk and general minority stereotypes, while her wonky tits hang and her aireoles fail to make any eye contact. Subtle genius of Gatlinburg.

[Rimbo 25772]

24 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

5 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Maybe use a photo from before she started melting.

That young lady does a hilarious comedy bit where her Gunt mouth fold does impressions of various local townsfolk and general minority stereotypes, while her wonky tits hang and her aireoles fail to make any eye contact. Subtle genius of Gatlinburg.

Welp. That's enough Internet for me today.

[Art Vandelay 1710]

16 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Welp. That's enough Internet for me today.

For me, it was "gunt mouth fold" that did it.

Edited February 22 by Art Vandelay

[Dnaguy 11769]

6 hours ago, Born to Run said:

11 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Maybe use a photo from before she started melting.

That young lady does a hilarious comedy bit where her Gunt mouth fold does impressions of various local townsfolk and general minority stereotypes, while her wonky tits hang and her aireoles fail to make any eye contact. Subtle genius of Gatlinburg.

[dcbc 14404]

16 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

That makes sense.

To give a TLDR layperson summary: sometimes the court states the basics of how it is going to decide (an outline, if you will, saying "I intend to sign a judgment that does X, Y, and Z."  In this case, it's more than an outline, it's a full "opinion," but it still doesn't "order and decree" anything, which is what a judgment does).  The parties then submit competing proposed judgments to turn that outline into an actual formal, final judgment (which is a specialized legal document that usually has some very specific requirements).  The court then picks one of the judgments (or maybe even uses one as a baseline, and tweaks it some), and then signs it.  And it is THAT act -- signing a final judgment - that starts all of the appellate clocks running.  

 

Yeah, in Texas we have a "motion for judgment," the counterpoint to which is a motion JNOV, which wouldn't make sense here.  Maybe style it motion for corrected judgment.  Just a weird naming scheme in Trump University Upstairs Law College and Tanning Salon.

 

And, as you undoubtedly know, in Texas, for purposes of appeal, we have the "one final judgment" rule, which is to say that a final judgment is one which disposes of all parties and all issues, which typically is indicated by a "Mother Hubbard" clause stating that the judgment does just that.  But to make matters more strange (at least in Texas), even if a judgment does not, in fact, dispose of all parties and all issues, if it appears that the trial court intended to dispose of all parties and all issues, a judgment which is not, in fact, final, is considered final for purposes of appeal.

 

Edited February 22 by dcbc
punctuation

[Dahobbs 17437]

49 minutes ago, dcbc said:

 

 But to make matters more strange (at least in Texas), even if a judgment does not, in fact dispose of all parties and all issues, if it appears that the trial court intended to dispose of all parties and all issues, a judgment which is not, in fact, final, is considered final for purposes of appeal.

I'm pretty sure that only applies if it will screw over the plaintiff in some respect. Defendants will of course get every benefit of the doubt by the Texas Supreme Court. 

[dcbc 14404]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm pretty sure that only applies if it will screw over the plaintiff in some respect. Defendants will of course get every benefit of the doubt by the Texas Supreme Court. 

Possibly, that was the intent.  But in a practical sense, it keeps appeals from getting bounced on technicalities where the judgment truly was intended to dispose of everything.  My perspective is skewed though.  And I do what I do better if I don't try to read the tea leaves on what motivates the Texas Supreme Court.  

Edited February 22 by dcbc

[dcbc 14404]

Trump seeks delay

Quote

Amer, in his letter Thursday, argued that Robert failed to justify why an additional delay of 30 days would be necessary.

"Nor do Defendants provide any basis for staying enforcement of the judgment; indeed, they requested such relief in their post-trial brief, which the Court declined to grant," Amer wrote.

Amer also objected to a change proposed by Robert to move the address of six of Trump's businesses -- which are defendants in the case -- from New York to Florida.

Subtle

[BamaATL 16592]

3 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Trump seeks delay

Subtle

Beyond being hilarious, what it tells me is he has 6 properties in New York actually worth something, and the rest are so far upside down it doesn't matter.  I'm stilling guessing he's upside down at least $2 billion, and it wouldn't shock me in the slightest if its much higher.  

[Heisenberg 162]

It seems to me that the imminent filing of a judgment in the Leticia James Civil Fraud Trial will start a 30-day clock running during which Trump will have to either put up something like $500 million (the entire judgment amount, including accrued interest) in cash, or secure a bond in excess of that amount, in order to appeal Judge Engoron's judment and stay enforcement of the judgment, or pay the judgment in full in the amount of about $500 million.

It also seems to me that Trump does not have $500 million in cash and that he will not be able to obtain a bond in the amount required as bonding agents do not want real estate assets as collateral, and besides, bonding agents know Trump's nature and will not want to do business with him.

So it may be that enforcement of Judge Engoron's order may force Trump into bankruptcy or otherwise Trump will face seizure and liquidation of enough of his assets to satisfy the judgment.

I'm no lawyer, but this is what I gather from readings on the internet.

TL;DR - Judge Engoron's judgment, if enforced, will ruin Trump financially.

Anybody see things working otherwise?

[The Dog 43792]

9 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

It seems to me that the imminent filing of a judgment in the Leticia James Civil Fraud Trial will start a 30-day clock running during which Trump will have to either put up something like $500 million (the entire judgment amount, including accrued interest) in cash, or secure a bond in excess of that amount, in order to appeal Judge Engoron's judment and stay enforcement of the judgment, or pay the judgment in full in the amount of about $500 million.

It also seems to me that Trump does not have $500 million in cash and that he will not be able to obtain a bond in the amount required as bonding agents do not want real estate assets as collateral, and besides, bonding agents know Trump's nature and will not want to do business with him.

So it may be that enforcement of Judge Engoron's order may force Trump into bankruptcy or otherwise Trump will face seizure and liquidation of enough of his assets to satisfy the judgment.

I'm no lawyer, but this is what I gather from readings on the internet.

TL;DR - Judge Engoron's judgment, if enforced, will ruin Trump financially.

Anybody see things working otherwise?

Pretty much. From what I gather:

1. Trump has about $400 million in cash on hand. That's obviously less than the judgment so assets would have to be liquidated in order to pay the bill once enforced.

2. He doesn't have to pay the cash/bond in order to appeal - only to defer execution of judgment (which according to #1 he doesn't have, so it will be at risk)

3. James has indicated she wants to execute the judgment even while on appeal since he won't be able to put up the cash/bond. She wants to start liquidating TrumpCo assets immediately in order to start collecting.

So yeah, he's ruined.

[DigglerontheHoof 21053]

2 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Pretty much. From what I gather:

1. Trump has about $400 million in cash on hand. That's obviously less than the judgment so assets would have to be liquidated in order to pay the bill once enforced.

2. He doesn't have to pay the cash/bond in order to appeal - only to defer execution of judgment (which according to #1 he doesn't have, so it will be at risk)

3. James has indicated she wants to execute the judgment even while on appeal since he won't be able to put up the cash/bond. She wants to start liquidating TrumpCo assets immediately in order to start collecting.

So yeah, he's ruined.

He will never be "ruined".  At the very least, he'll continue to drain magas' collective savings.  And I still haven't seen any proof that he'll have to pay any of that money w/in the next 10 years or so. 

[Snake Diggity 4614]

It’s crazy to me that someone with multiple bankruptcies on their resume was ever a viable candidate for president, much less actually elected.  That may be at the top of the list of things that should have been a disqualifying factor for voters.  Forget that his primary role in society was as a reality game show host, forget all the shit he had said and done that made it clear he was sexist and racist, forget all the aspects of his personal life that made it clear he was not a person of decent moral character and certainly not someone to hold up as an example of family values, forget that he had zero prior experience in government or military or even really leading a business in a role that might somehow approximate a qualification to be president.  Just knowing “this motherfucker owned several business that ended up Chapter 11” should have been, on its own, MORE THAN ENOUGH for people to wholly reject his candidacy.  I will never get over what a horrible reflection his election was on our society.

[Fudge Nuggets 19146]

22 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

When you live in the world of suits and counter suits, and are an idiot with a Wharton degree, you think if there are judgements then there must be counter judgements. He’s trying to play the only game he knows how. 

And we were told numerous times that the earlier delays were totally cool because it meant he wouldn’t be able to drag it out once the judgment came down. 

[dcbc 14404]

45 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

he has 6 properties

Businesses as opposed to real property interests.  I'm sure the address of these businesses are different "suites" at the same UPS Store.

[BamaATL 16592]

Just now, dcbc said:

Businesses as opposed to real property interests.  I'm sure the address of these businesses are different "suites" at the same UPS Store.

I'd be stunned if each property isn't its own LLC, but then again, this is dotard we are talking about.  

[TwiceHorn 31263]

Well, Trump doesn't really have to file a bond as I expect James will await the outcome of the appeal before doing any hard core execution. 

However, there's been so much speculation about it, I think he's going to feel pressure to put up the bond or look like he can't. 

 

And, he might need the stay of the judgment if he wants to avoid the supervision/receivership from going into effect, moreso than to stop execution on his assets. 

[dcbc 14404]

16 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I'd be stunned if each property isn't its own LLC, but then again, this is dotard we are talking about.  

LLCs within LLCs.  I just figured he was hoping to change the business address (as opposed to the property address) so he could continue to funnel money through it, out of it, or whichever way.  The physical property still could be liquidated to satisfy the monetary penalty (unless it's a mobile home and he's going to drag it down to Florida) where it will blend in, disappear, you'll never see it again.  With any luck, he's found the grail already.  Oh, wait . . . . 

Edited February 22 by dcbc

[TwiceHorn 31263]

1 minute ago, BamaATL said:

I'd be stunned if each property isn't its own LLC, but then again, this is dotard we are talking about.  

Well it is clear that he has dozens if not hundreds or thousands of LLCs. That part was established by James herself in the pretrial investigation phase of this. 

[dcbc 14404]

16 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

And we were told numerous times that the earlier delays were totally cool because it meant he wouldn’t be able to drag it out once the judgment came down. 

I suspect but do not know (because how would I) that this is one of those situations with lawyers who know the case is hopeless but who have an insistent client.  I take solace in the fact that for every fruitless motion that delays the inevitable minimally, the coffers of his PACs and the RNC become even more depleted and he has to spend more time selling shoes and cologne than he does campaigning.  At this point, it's not just Trump's downfall, it's the party anchored to him.  

 

I know it's not happening fast enough.  I know many can't believe Trump Tower isn't sporting a Spirit Halloween banner already.  But the hand-wringing reminds me of trying to watch a good movie with my kids when they were little.

 

"Watch the movie."  It'll be over when it's over.  Behave yourselves, and when it's over, we'll get ice cream."

Edited February 22 by dcbc

[tbone_ 14020]

It’s crazy to me that someone with multiple bankruptcies on their resume was ever a viable candidate for president, much less actually elected.  That may be at the top of the list of things that should have been a disqualifying factor for voters.  Forget that his primary role in society was as a reality game show host, forget all the shit he had said and done that made it clear he was sexist and racist, forget all the aspects of his personal life that made it clear he was not a person of decent moral character and certainly not someone to hold up as an example of family values, forget that he had zero prior experience in government or military or even really leading a business in a role that might somehow approximate a qualification to be president.  Just knowing “this motherfucker owned several business that ended up Chapter 11” should have been, on its own, MORE THAN ENOUGH for people to wholly reject his candidacy.  I will never get over what a horrible reflection his election was on our society.

On Nov 8 2016 I learned that a whole bunch of assumptions I had been operating under were way, way wrong.

[Rimbo 25772]

2 hours ago, dcbc said:

Trump seeks delay

Subtle

 

It's like dealing with a toddler (sentence could end right here) who knows he's done something wrong and uses really bad attempts to try and get out of it. But when an actual toddler does it, it's cute.

 

1 hour ago, Heisenberg said:

It seems to me that the imminent filing of a judgment in the Leticia James Civil Fraud Trial will start a 30-day clock running during which Trump will have to either put up something like $500 million (the entire judgment amount, including accrued interest) in cash, or secure a bond in excess of that amount, in order to appeal Judge Engoron's judment and stay enforcement of the judgment, or pay the judgment in full in the amount of about $500 million.

It also seems to me that Trump does not have $500 million in cash and that he will not be able to obtain a bond in the amount required as bonding agents do not want real estate assets as collateral, and besides, bonding agents know Trump's nature and will not want to do business with him.

So it may be that enforcement of Judge Engoron's order may force Trump into bankruptcy or otherwise Trump will face seizure and liquidation of enough of his assets to satisfy the judgment.

I'm no lawyer, but this is what I gather from readings on the internet.

TL;DR - Judge Engoron's judgment, if enforced, will ruin Trump financially.

Anybody see things working otherwise?

 

I mean, there are bondsmen who are dumb enough to put up the money.

 

1 hour ago, Snake Diggity said:

It’s crazy to me that someone with multiple bankruptcies on their resume was ever a viable candidate for president, much less actually elected.  That may be at the top of the list of things that should have been a disqualifying factor for voters.  Forget that his primary role in society was as a reality game show host, forget all the shit he had said and done that made it clear he was sexist and racist, forget all the aspects of his personal life that made it clear he was not a person of decent moral character and certainly not someone to hold up as an example of family values, forget that he had zero prior experience in government or military or even really leading a business in a role that might somehow approximate a qualification to be president.  Just knowing “this motherfucker owned several business that ended up Chapter 11” should have been, on its own, MORE THAN ENOUGH for people to wholly reject his candidacy.  I will never get over what a horrible reflection his election was on our society.

 

If you're already requiring yourself to reject one proven fact, it's easy to get you to reject the rest.

The people who need to know this don't know it, aren't hearing about it, and are in fact being told that these are lies.

 

54 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

On Nov 8 2016 I learned that a whole bunch of assumptions I had been operating under were way, way wrong.

 

Really? It pretty much confirmed all of my suspicions.

[tbone_ 14020]

 
Really? It pretty much confirmed all of my suspicions.

What can I say. I’m an optimist.