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[Native Horn 3581]

17 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Limited Liability Company 

It limits the liability 

They just write it off, Jerry!

[Longhorn94 2501]

i also doubt Trump has properly followed the laws keeping his business and personal assets separate. any decent collections attorney could most likely pierce the corporate veil and collect his assets.

[Gatorubet 30746]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

 About the best you can do is get at income or payments they throw off. 

Edited February 26 by Gatorubet
I think the bigger picture here is to get the man to stroke out. Going after things he holds. Most dear is a good way to do that.

[dcbc 14644]

11 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

i also doubt Trump has properly followed the laws keeping his business and personal assets separate. any decent collections attorney could most likely pierce the corporate veil and collect his assets.

Talk about a case that would go on forever, assuming he could find someone over at legal aid willing to defend him.

 

 

[The Dog 44862]

 

[TwiceHorn 32087]

39 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

I may be missing the sarcasm. 

It limits the liability for the activities of the entity. However, the LLC interests are still the assets of the owner of the LLC and have their own value. Additionally, the ownership of the interests likely convey voting rights which allow the owner to liquidate the property held by the LLC.

If Donald held $400 million of NVDA, I would assume that could be seized to settle the judgement. These LLC interests are no different.

What they can do, if they can trace it, is take ownership of shares of LLCs or other entities that are in Donalds or one of the defendant entities names. 

But, as neon indicates, the purpose of a legal entity is to limit the liabilities of the owner of the entity to the entity"s assets. 

But it works the other way, too, limiting the liability of the owner. 

You can be reasonably sure that the valuable LLCs have a nested ownership such that it would be difficult for a creditor to obtain a majority interest sufficient to liquidate the entity or direct its profit/income. 

[Rimbo 27049]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Correct.

Bond: NOT needed in order to appeal a judgment.  You can appeal without posting a bond.

Bond: YES needed in order to stay the execution of the underlying judgment while the appeal is ongoing.  The bond is called a "supersedeas bond," because posting it supersedes the effectiveness of the underlying judgment.

There's risks both ways: 1) the winner executes on the judgment, but LOSES the appeal.  Now, they have to make the now-winning party whole.  So, don't go burning up that money you collect.  You may need to pay it back to the former loser, but now winner, of the case.  And 2) there's a risk in not posting bond (your shit could get collected on), but there's also a risk in posting a bond if you're anywhere close to bankrupt because of the judgment.  If you lose the appeal, then that bond pays off the winner.  They don't have to go through any collection effort, and you can't later claim bankruptcy and try to reduce the amount you already paid into the bond.

[Rimbo 27049]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

You post bond because you don't want the other party seizing your shit (usually, you don't have cash sitting around that they can go execute on -- they can seize assets, which messes with your business/life).  It functionally gives you a measure of control.  That said, in an ordinary collection situation, with a solvent defendant, the plaintiff's lawyer is going to make a call and say "you wanna pay up the easy way, or the hard way?", so you do have an option to avoid having assets seized.

That said, the bottom line is that you post the bond to have some control.  If you're gonna have to pay the judgment eventually (because your appeal is a loser), then it's generally no harm, no foul, so long as you are actually solvent.  If you got a $1,000 judgment against me, and I appealed, I would absolutely put $1,000 into the registry of the court to avoid you messing with my assets and such, or even letting you have the money, which maybe you blow and I can't recover because you're insolvent by then.  If I win, I get my $1k back.  If I lose, I'm out the $1k that I was going to be out anyway.

 

[Rimbo 27049]

27 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

seize his assets! DO IT

[The Dog 44862]

 

[Underdog 29201]

3 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

@Balcones  lets see your phone records. 

[jimmyjazz 47237]

No doubt @Balcones is mortified.  Or not.

[Dahobbs 18336]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

What they can do, if they can trace it, is take ownership of shares of LLCs or other entities that are in Donalds or one of the defendant entities names. 

But, as neon indicates, the purpose of a legal entity is to limit the liabilities of the owner of the entity to the entity"s assets. 

But it works the other way, too, limiting the liability of the owner. 

You can be reasonably sure that the valuable LLCs have a nested ownership such that it would be difficult for a creditor to obtain a majority interest sufficient to liquidate the entity or direct its profit/income. 

That may be true. But I'd still execute on any such company I could find that Donald had a ownership interest in. At worst, you've gummed up the works for operation of Donald's various businesses and created shareholder liability if those businesses attempt to do something to the detriment of the now seized ownership interests. Ultimately, Donald has control over all of these, so if you pull the thread enough, I think you'd ultimately get everything. 

[wildcat09 29595]

Well also, he had Michael Cohen and Michael Cohen-caliber attorneys setting up all his entities for years. The ownership structure probably isn't actually all that difficult to pierce. 

[atomheartbevo 90663]

4 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

The more I learn about the law, the more I want to ensure I never have to deal with it beyond reasonable.

Your fears are well-founded.  

[DigglerontheHoof 21557]

5 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

The more I learn about the law, the more I want to ensure I never have to deal with it beyond reasonable.

The most contact I've had w/ it was a PI in college and traffic tickets.  I want nothing else to do w/ it.  It's a completely fucked up system. 

[BamaATL 16593]

So in his argument for appeal against Carroll Trump and his legal team that he was too rich in order to need to pay the bond to appeal.  Five days from now she begin the collection process, even if he continues to appeal.  

I'm too rich to pay this parking ticket, therefore I'm just not going to pay it all.  I bet that works out well for me.

Kaplan shut this down, rightly so.  

He can't pull together enough cash for the 83 million bond, I don't give him a hope in hell at pulling off the 454 million.  

[Pam Cummings 9883]

20 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

No doubt @Balcones is mortified.  Or not.

Yeah we all know he has a stick up his ass for everything being done by the book. Let's see him change his mind about that suddenly.

[The Royal We 3100]

18 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

So in his argument for appeal against Carroll Trump and his legal team that he was too rich in order to need to pay the bond to appeal.  Five days from now she begin the collection process, even if he continues to appeal.  

I'm too rich to pay this parking ticket, therefore I'm just not going to pay it all.  I bet that works out well for me.

Kaplan shut this down, rightly so.  

He can't pull together enough cash for the 83 million bond, I don't give him a hope in hell at pulling off the 454 million.  

What are the odds he doesn't pay anything at all and dares the state to start selling his assets to pay the judgements? Throw it on the pile of other things he uses to coax retirees and working class folks out of their money.

[The Dog 44862]

35 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

He can't pull together enough cash for the 83 million bond, I don't give him a hope in hell at pulling off the 454 million.  

aren't the two apples and oranges though? 

one is for Trump personally; the other for the Trump Organization. 

This is for personal statements/defamation so it will need to come from his own pocket IIRC (he allegedly has about $400 million liquid so he could pay the judgment/bond/whatever). Remember he'll be putting up the entire settlement amount since nobody will give him a bond due to his refusal to pay his bills.

20 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

What are the odds he doesn't pay anything at all and dares the state to start selling his assets to pay the judgements? Throw it on the pile of other things he uses to coax retirees and working class folks out of their money.

I think James has already said she intends to do just that once the 30 day clock runs out.

[High Plains Drifter 11192]

23 hours ago, locodos said:

Didn't think about that.  I just assumed since that property was used to commit fraud that there may be some recourse.  But I didn't have a double Old Fashion at lunch, so what am I even doing?

 

If I use my house to make meth, it can be seized. So why not if I use my house, or business, or club or whateverthefuck it is, to hide classified docs, why can't it be seized? Yes, I realize this is a different case, but still. I see in the news people getting money or cars or houses seized because they had bag of weed or their teenage son sold a narc a bag out of the house.

What is the difference... oh wait, I forgot, dOTarD is rich and white, nevermind. 

[High Plains Drifter 11192]

21 hours ago, The Dog said:

 

 

 

I'm sure the bar will get right on some sanctions or disbarment or other appropriate punishments. Because you know, attorneys are so good at policing their own. 

 

 

[Keef 891]

19 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Your fears are well-founded.  

And just wait until he meets the lawyers.

[TwiceHorn 32087]

1 hour ago, BamaATL said:

So in his argument for appeal against Carroll Trump and his legal team that he was too rich in order to need to pay the bond to appeal.  Five days from now she begin the collection process, even if he continues to appeal.  

I'm too rich to pay this parking ticket, therefore I'm just not going to pay it all.  I bet that works out well for me.

Kaplan shut this down, rightly so.  

He can't pull together enough cash for the 83 million bond, I don't give him a hope in hell at pulling off the 454 million.  

To be fair, I made this argument successfully to stay a judgment of 250k against a Fortune 500 company. But we specifically swore to treasury cash and lines of credit in excess 10 to 100x the judgment. And our appeal was a cross-appeal, meaning the opponent appealed first. 

Both sides lost their appeals and we wrote a check. Poor bastard on the other side had the case on contingency, too. 

[BamaATL 16593]

12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

To be fair, I made this argument successfully to stay a judgment of 250k against a Fortune 500 company. But we specifically swore to treasury cash and lines of credit in excess 10 to 100x the judgment. And our appeal was a cross-appeal, meaning the opponent appealed first. 

Both sides lost their appeals and we wrote a check. Poor bastard on the other side had the case on contingency, too. 

Given the amount vs given the billions a publicly traded company is worth and is financially transparent, I can understand that.  Given that this is an individual, I don't think that's gonna work (it didn't).  I imagine he will he also attempt this for the corporate fraud cause and be similarly rejected right up to the clock expiring.  To me, if he can't personally come up with the $83 million, its one hell of a tell about the corporate end of this as well.  

 

[dcbc 14644]

59 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

I'm sure the bar will get right on some sanctions or disbarment or other appropriate punishments. Because you know, attorneys are so good at policing their own. 

 

 

 

[TexasEd 8266]

It's almost as if he should have stopped taunting Carrol at 5 Million

[RomaVicta 30606]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

If I use my house to make meth, it can be seized. So why not if I use my house, or business, or club or whateverthefuck it is, to hide classified docs, why can't it be seized? Yes, I realize this is a different case, but still. I see in the news people getting money or cars or houses seized because they had bag of weed or their teenage son sold a narc a bag out of the house.

What is the difference... oh wait, I forgot, dOTarD is rich and white, nevermind. 

I'll tell you the goddamn difference, sonny! We got a WAR on drugs going on. Serious shit. 

We have no war going on against treason, stealing state secrets, rich-guy rape, having your national security advisor in bed with the Russians, or taking massive bribes through your son-in-law, Jarad. Those are mere laws in some cases. In some cases, there are  evidently only loose agreements about legality and punishment. 

Where are your priorities? 

Oh, we had a war on poverty going on for awhile, but somehow some of the poor managed to survive. We'll get 'em next time!

[DDD Dad 14656]

On 2/26/2024 at 2:15 PM, hornmpa96 said:

Can they not seize the LLC interests held by the defendant directly? 

 

On 2/26/2024 at 3:07 PM, TwiceHorn said:

What they can do, if they can trace it, is take ownership of shares of LLCs or other entities that are in Donalds or one of the defendant entities names. 

 

Not in Texas.  Only means of collecting judgment against LLC member/owner is via a charging order, which is limited to directing distributions to the judgment creditor.  Corporate stock can be seized and sold at public auction.

Edited February 27 by DDD Dad

[Satchel 6982]

On 2/26/2024 at 1:17 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Holy shit Cheese bro

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/26/politics/kenneth-chesebro-secret-twitter-account-kfile/index.html

was running the coup anonymously on Twitter but failed to report this to investigators 

OPPS! 

And to think he was once a close friend of Lawrence Tribe. What happened to that guy?

[Dahobbs 18336]

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

 

Not in Texas.  Only means of collecting judgment against LLC is via a charging order, which is limited to directing distributions to the judgment creditor.  Corporate stock can be seized and sold at public auction.

I did not know this. Thank you for this little research detour to my day. 

[hornmpa96 2669]

2 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

 

Not in Texas.  Only means of collecting judgment against LLC member/owner is via a charging order, which is limited to directing distributions to the judgment creditor.  Corporate stock can be seized and sold at public auction.

That’s crazy. Why did Texas decide to treat LLC interests differently?

[DDD Dad 14656]

19 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

That’s crazy. Why did Texas decide to treat LLC interests differently?

I don't know for sure but I suspect it's because the nature of LLCs are that membership interests typically have restrictions on transfer.

[TwiceHorn 32087]

Yeah LLCs are kinda after my time. They didn't exist mostly when I was in law school and I haven't kept up with all of the little quirks. 

I think they are mostly designed to take the place of "closely owned" corporations for small and family bidnesses, but have taken on a life of their own as special purpose vehicles, etc.

 

[DDD Dad 14656]

I happen to have some first hand experience with them of late, representing a couple of judgment debtors in attempted turnover/receiver actions.  The plaintiff attorneys apparently haven't bothered to read the Property Code, which makes opposing the motions much easier.

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1279]

 
 
I'm sure the bar will get right on some sanctions or disbarment or other appropriate punishments. Because you know, attorneys are so good at policing their own. 
 
 

Yeah, sure. I'll just check with the boys down at the law crime lab, they've got four more attorney-detectives working on the case. They got us working in shifts!

[Rimbo 27049]

Meanwhile, things not going well for the people accusing Fanni Willis.

https://newrepublic.com/post/179339/key-witness-georgia-fani-willis-crumbles

Key Witness Against Fani Willis Completely Crumbles on the Stand

Terrence Bradley, a key witness for Donald Trump’s team, sounded more like an office gossip when he took the stand in the Georgia trial.

Spoiler

A key witness who was supposed to testify against Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis seemed unable to answer a single question on Tuesday.

Donald Trump and several of his co-defendants in their Georgia election interference case have accused Willis of an improper relationship with special prosecutor Nathan Wade. Trump’s team says that Willis and Wade began dating in 2019, while the couple says they didn’t start seeing each other until 2022, after Willis hired Wade for the Georgia case.

Trump’s lawyers have argued the romantic relationship provides a legal basis to disqualify Willis and throw out her case against Trump entirely. On Tuesday, lawyers Ashleigh Merchant and Steve Sadow questioned Terrence Bradley to try to establish a timeline of the couple’s relationship. Bradley is Wade’s former law partner and divorce attorney, and was meant to be a key witness in the case against Willis.

Merchant had multiple text messages from Bradley stating that the couple began dating in 2019. But when she began questioning him, suddenly, Bradley didn’t know a thing—including when they actually began dating, how the relationship began, and the trips they took together.

When asked why he initially said Willis and Wade began dating in 2019, Bradley said he was just “speculating.” He said he’d actually only had one conversation with Wade about the relationship, and Bradley couldn’t remember when that discussion had taken place. He repeated that he was only speculating so many times that many people on social media began to point out that Bradley seemed more like an office gossip than a credible witness.

Bradley also continually said he couldn’t remember telling Merchant certain details. Merchant kept asking him to confirm things he had previously told her, but Bradley only answered, “I don’t recall.” It got to the point that presiding Judge Scott McAfee told Merchant to move on, because the line of questioning was going nowhere.

Trump’s legal team allege that Willis and Wade had an “improper intimate personal relationship,” and accuse the couple of taking extravagant vacations that Wade paid for in part by billing Willis’s office.

Willis has denied the allegations. She says the relationship began in 2022, after Willis joined the case, and that they each paid their own share of the vacation bill. But the most important thing to remember, Willis has stressed, is that Trump and his co-defendants are currently on trial for “trying to steal an election.”

If Willis is removed from the case, that would deal a massive blow to one of the four criminal trials that Trump currently has scheduled ahead of the 2024 general election. The process to replace Willis, or even decide to completely drop the case, would significantly delay Trump’s day in Georgia court.

 

[Horn Dog 10158]

Are you telling me that during under oath depositions and/or cross examinations witnesses often answer “I do not recall” or “I am not sure”?   This dementia thing is more contagious than COVID!

[cactusflinthead 27628]

 

[locodos 5592]

19 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

Are you telling me that during under oath depositions and/or cross examinations witnesses often answer “I do not recall” or “I am not sure”?   This dementia thing is more contagious than COVID!

Last time I was deposed, "on July15th  2017 at 2pm you had a meeting entitled 'Weekly Contract Compliance' can you tell us everything about this meeting and who was in attendance?"

A: "no, I don't recall this meeting"

Bob was there, does that refresh your recollection?

A: "no"

 

I wasn't hiding anything, it's just stupid to treat humans like perfect recall computers... we aren't.   They got all indignant, but what did you have for lunch on 7/15/2017?  It was lunchtime, does that refresh your recollection?

[Doc Sam Beckett 5908]

7 minutes ago, locodos said:

Last time I was deposed, "on July15th  2017 at 2pm you had a meeting entitled 'Weekly Contract Compliance' can you tell us everything about this meeting and who was in attendance?"

A: "no, I don't recall this meeting"

Bob was there, does that refresh your recollection?

A: "no"

 

I wasn't hiding anything, it's just stupid to treat humans like perfect recall computers... we aren't.   They got all indignant, but what did you have for lunch on 7/15/2017?  It was lunchtime, does that refresh your recollection?

Yeah, I got one thing to say about locodos

[Dnaguy 12649]

17 minutes ago, locodos said:

Last time I was deposed, "on July15th  2017 at 2pm you had a meeting entitled 'Weekly Contract Compliance' can you tell us everything about this meeting and who was in attendance?"

A: "no, I don't recall this meeting"

Bob was there, does that refresh your recollection?

A: "no"

 

I wasn't hiding anything, it's just stupid to treat humans like perfect recall computers... we aren't.   They got all indignant, but what did you have for lunch on 7/15/2017?  It was lunchtime, does that refresh your recollection?

Was the discussion about the ability to fix any of the non-compliant contracts?

[TexEx15 17955]

 

[Gatorubet 30746]

On 2/26/2024 at 1:17 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Holy shit Cheese bro

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/26/politics/kenneth-chesebro-secret-twitter-account-kfile/index.html

was running the coup anonymously on Twitter but failed to report this to investigators 

OPPS! 

I think the non-truthfulness to investigators is worth five years in the federal pen. What I’m not sure is if his prior plea deal is impacted by him committing another crime within a short period of the plea.   There might be a 9 pound hammer to hold over his head, being the false statements to the investigators that could send him there for decades

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13629]

2 hours ago, Rimbo said:

Meanwhile, things not going well for the people accusing Fanni Willis.

https://newrepublic.com/post/179339/key-witness-georgia-fani-willis-crumbles

Key Witness Against Fani Willis Completely Crumbles on the Stand

Terrence Bradley, a key witness for Donald Trump’s team, sounded more like an office gossip when he took the stand in the Georgia trial.

  Hide contents

A key witness who was supposed to testify against Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis seemed unable to answer a single question on Tuesday.

Donald Trump and several of his co-defendants in their Georgia election interference case have accused Willis of an improper relationship with special prosecutor Nathan Wade. Trump’s team says that Willis and Wade began dating in 2019, while the couple says they didn’t start seeing each other until 2022, after Willis hired Wade for the Georgia case.

Trump’s lawyers have argued the romantic relationship provides a legal basis to disqualify Willis and throw out her case against Trump entirely. On Tuesday, lawyers Ashleigh Merchant and Steve Sadow questioned Terrence Bradley to try to establish a timeline of the couple’s relationship. Bradley is Wade’s former law partner and divorce attorney, and was meant to be a key witness in the case against Willis.

Merchant had multiple text messages from Bradley stating that the couple began dating in 2019. But when she began questioning him, suddenly, Bradley didn’t know a thing—including when they actually began dating, how the relationship began, and the trips they took together.

When asked why he initially said Willis and Wade began dating in 2019, Bradley said he was just “speculating.” He said he’d actually only had one conversation with Wade about the relationship, and Bradley couldn’t remember when that discussion had taken place. He repeated that he was only speculating so many times that many people on social media began to point out that Bradley seemed more like an office gossip than a credible witness.

Bradley also continually said he couldn’t remember telling Merchant certain details. Merchant kept asking him to confirm things he had previously told her, but Bradley only answered, “I don’t recall.” It got to the point that presiding Judge Scott McAfee told Merchant to move on, because the line of questioning was going nowhere.

Trump’s legal team allege that Willis and Wade had an “improper intimate personal relationship,” and accuse the couple of taking extravagant vacations that Wade paid for in part by billing Willis’s office.

Willis has denied the allegations. She says the relationship began in 2022, after Willis joined the case, and that they each paid their own share of the vacation bill. But the most important thing to remember, Willis has stressed, is that Trump and his co-defendants are currently on trial for “trying to steal an election.”

If Willis is removed from the case, that would deal a massive blow to one of the four criminal trials that Trump currently has scheduled ahead of the 2024 general election. The process to replace Willis, or even decide to completely drop the case, would significantly delay Trump’s day in Georgia court.

 

Wait. Wut. We haven't even got to the sex tape part!

[Horndog 2300]

17 hours ago, hornmpa96 said:

That’s crazy. Why did Texas decide to treat LLC interests differently?

I think it's a byproduct of the legislative treatment of LLCs as being something of a hybrid between corporations and partnerships, with features of each. Historically, the idea was that partners chose who their business associates would be and they stood in a fiduciary relationship to each other. The partnership interest could not be involuntarily transferred to a third party, e.g. a judgment creditor, because it would be unjust to force the other partners to accept a partner they had not chosen. The actual ownership interest could not be subject to forced transfer, but the profit stream could be diverted through a charging order.

[Horndog 2300]

On 2/24/2024 at 1:32 PM, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

I swear to God when this motherfucker dies I'm inviting every one of you to the Black Sheep Lodge on Lamar for a night of drinking on me. 

I hope there's a dance floor. 

[speed817 19966]

 

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21557]

Donny makes his own rules. 

[speed817 19966]

Just now, DigglerontheHoof said:

Donny makes his own rules. 

He needs more time to raise funds