Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty Guilty

[Dahobbs 17251]

19 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

The defense can’t ask for a mistrial based on a question they asked can they? Because if that’s the case seems like there would be an “oops” question in every criminal trial that is trending against the defendant 

Well, usually not, but a witness can flout the rules in a such a way to cause a mistrial. This would most often come up in the context of an expert witness, who would generally be instructed by their attorney on what the judge has allowed vs not allowed to come into the case and would have to tailor their testimony based upon those instructions. Here, you're talking about a highly inflammatory statement, directly commenting on an issue the jury is supposed to be deciding, from a fact witness who is a lawyer and should understand the line, and where answering the question doesn't require the extra bit of inflammatory testimony. I'm not saying it likely would have resulted in a mistrial, but I bet it would have appeared in a motion for one. I think Cohen's answer was good in that context. I think while he could have issued a more explicit statement, discretion is the better part of valor here.  

[The Dog 43483]

13 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Well, usually not, but a witness can flout the rules in a such a way to cause a mistrial.

By answering "sure" to a yes/no question?

[tx ind 6904]

4 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Hahahahaha

Vivek's shirt collar is a shitshow

[Dahobbs 17251]

11 minutes ago, The Dog said:

By answering "sure" to a yes/no question?

No, that's the answer that I think is fine. @Huckleberry's proposal of "Well yeah, he broke the law" is the one that I think is potentially problematic. I wouldn't really lose much sleep over it or anything, but I do think it invites a motion for mistrial.  

[South Austin 51681]

5 minutes ago, tx ind said:

Vivek's shirt collar is a shitshow

His collar is the least shit show thing about him.

[Bozo_Casanova 25903]

11 minutes ago, tx ind said:

Vivek's shirt collar is a shitshow

I would bet you $1000 that he’s wearing gym socks.

[Bozo_Casanova 25903]

I

[South Austin 51681]

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I

Given the GOP's willingness to actually govern, I think the answer to her question is "no."

[DixonHur 10862]

2 hours ago, BevoAbyss said:

History shows no surprise Maggie Haberman was/is spewing Trump propaganda for the New York Times. 

After all, the Nazis/Hitler had writers, artists, hacks, and propagandists all over the German newspaper, radio, and film industries in the 1930s-1940s.

 

You know the most interesting part of this fact to me is that Hitler was trying to emulate the US and UK with propaganda.  

He mentions several times in Mein Kampf how impressed he was with their propaganda techniques during WWI, and how he wished Germany would have done the same.

[chainsaw 9668]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Lawyers, explain why "Well yeah, he broke the law" isn't a good answer here. That's what my instinct would be, and even if the defense objected isn't setting a witness up for an answer like that dumb? 

probably too smartass and argumentative for a jury. are there still lawyers on this jury?

[chainsaw 9668]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

By answering "sure" to a yes/no question?

[Gatorubet 29764]

44 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

You know the most interesting part of this fact to me is that Hitler was trying to emulate the US and UK with propaganda.  

He mentions several times in Mein Kampf how impressed he was with their propaganda techniques during WWI, and how he wished Germany would have done the same.

Quote

All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to. Consequently, the greater the mass it is intended to reach, the lower its purely intellectual level will have to be. But if, as in propaganda for sticking out a war, the aim is to influence a whole people, we must avoid excessive intellectual demands on our public, and too much caution cannot be extended in this direction. 

The more modest its intellectual ballast, the more exclusively it takes into consideration the emotions of the masses, the more effective it will be. And this is the best proof of the soundness or unsoundness of a propaganda campaign, and not success pleasing a few scholars or young aesthetes. 

The art of propaganda lies in understanding the emotional ideas of the great masses and finding, through a psychologically correct form, the way to the attention and thence to the heart of the broad masses. The fact that our bright boys do not understand this merely shows how mentally lazy and conceited they are. 

Once understood how necessary it is for propaganda in be adjusted to the broad mass, the following rule results:
It is a mistake to make propaganda many-sided, like scientific instruction, for instance. The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan. As soon as you sacrifice this slogan and try to be many-sided, the effect will piddle away, for the crowd can neither digest nor retain the material offered. In this way the result is weakened and in the end entirely cancelled out. 

Thus we see that propaganda must follow a simple line and correspondingly the basic tactics must be psychologically sound.

Trump has proven Hitler correct.  

[DixonHur 10862]

3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Trump has proven Hitler correct.  

Yep.  That was my point, but I was in a hurry to get dinner out to the oven.

Shit's come around full circle with each iteration getting dangerously more aggressive and sophisticated as technology improves.  

Mein Kampf is basically the GQP playbook.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Interesting note there about the prosecution's discomfort during Daniels' cross and relative ease with Cohen's.

I think that points up what we were saying earlier that Daniels is a problematic witness that the prosecution felt the jury wanted to hear from, but was not necessary to the case.  So, they could see her cross blowing something up for a witness that was just window dressing.

On the other hand, Cohen is a problematic witness that is essential to proving the case.  They KNEW they had to put him on and swallow the pig of his credibility problems.  Apparently thus far they are quite content with the neutralization they have achieved and don't feel the cross is damaging.

Also, that the reporters and seemingly the jury can't follow the cross and where it's headed is a great sign for the prosecution.

[chainsaw 9668]

To me it all comes down to the Truth Social juror. Can the other jurors get him to embrace common sense?

[pyrohornIII 4772]

23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Interesting note there about the prosecution's discomfort during Daniels' cross and relative ease with Cohen's.

I think that points up what we were saying earlier that Daniels is a problematic witness that the prosecution felt the jury wanted to hear from, but was not necessary to the case.  So, they could see her cross blowing something up for a witness that was just window dressing.

On the other hand, Cohen is a problematic witness that is essential to proving the case.  They KNEW they had to put him on and swallow the pig of his credibility problems.  Apparently thus far they are quite content with the neutralization they have achieved and don't feel the cross is damaging.

Also, that the reporters and seemingly the jury can't follow the cross and where it's headed is a great sign for the prosecution.

The whole approach seems to be to just muddle along, throw shit at the witnesses and see what sticks.  Pretty much the same way Trump runs a campaign or anything else.  Problem is the jury isn't full of MAGA worshippers.

 

6 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

To me it all comes down to the Truth Social juror. Can the other jurors get him to embrace common sense?

Pretty sure that was juror 4 and they were disqualified before the jury got properly seated.    But I had forgotten about the one who listened to Cohen's podcasts.  Probably one or more of the Meidas ones.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

7 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

The whole approach seems to be to just muddle along, throw shit at the witnesses and see what sticks.  Pretty much the same way Trump runs a campaign or anything else.  Problem is the jury isn't full of MAGA worshippers.

 

Pretty sure that was juror 4 and they were disqualified before the jury got properly seated.    But I had forgotten about the one who listened to Cohen's podcasts.  Probably one or more of the Meidas ones.

The "Truth Social" juror was seated, but:

Some commentators have suggested that Trump might find a guardian angel in Juror 2, the only one to have admitted to following Trump on Truth Social and to getting his news from the platform. But the media consumption graphic only tells part of the story. “I read basically everything,” Juror 2 said. “I follow Truth Social posts from Trump on Twitter. I do follow Michael Cohen, Mueller She Wrote, and some more.” He said that Trump has done some good for the country, but added “it goes both ways.” (That doesn’t sound exactly like a MAGA diehard.)

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/04/trump-jury-selection-manhattan-juror-2-merchan/

[tbone_ 13991]

To me it all comes down to the Truth Social juror. Can the other jurors get him to embrace common sense?

It won’t matter. Even if they find him guilty. They’ll just give him a fine and that will be that. Best case.

[Fudge Nuggets 18995]

18 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

It won’t matter. Even if they find him guilty. They’ll just give him a fine and that will be that. Best case.

Yeah, but the fine might be a bigly $10,000.  That will teach him.

[BamaATL 16248]

18 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

It won’t matter. Even if they find him guilty. They’ll just give him a fine and that will be that. Best case.

It won't matter to his base one way or the other, but there are Republicans, no matter how small the percentage, say 3 to 5%, that won't show up because he is a 34 time convicted felon.  And yes, that matters.  

[Js1 83620]

22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

but added “it goes both ways.”

[Brisketexan 103650]

It won't matter to his base one way or the other, but there are Republicans, no matter how small the percentage, say 3 to 5%, that won't show up because he is a 34 time convicted felon.  And yes, that matters.  

They’re lying. If they’re still republicans, 1) they’re in a cult, and 2) lying is their favorite sacrament. They will come home to Dear Leader. Always.

[BamaATL 16248]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

They’re lying. If they’re still republicans, 1) they’re in a cult, and 2) lying is their favorite sacrament. They will come home to Dear Leader. Always.

He didn't get complete fealty from Republican Congressman, even if it was a small percentage, again 3 to 5%.  The same will be true for the general population.  He'll always have the Maga base, but that doesn't win an election.  It's the margins that matter, 3% doesn't sound like much but against the 80 million needed to win, 2.4 million is a big deal.  

[YGIFS 19445]

Yep.  All of this.  The only way to defeat him is to take that middle 25mm of his voter bloc.  And shame just enough of them to stay home and tell themselves, "I just can't with this fucking guy anymore."  You get a few million across a dozen key states, and it's game over for MAGA.  The 25mm straight ticket voters don't give a shit if it's Trump, Goebbels, or Larry the Cable Guy...they're pulling the lever no matter what.  The bottom 25mm that came out of the woodwork addicted to validation and empowerment, they're going for Trump and probably shooting up the polling station.  Focus on shaming those in that middle seam.  

But then the real fun begins.  It's not super close, but close...EC-wise.  And Trump throws a tantrum that makes J6 and the last 4 years look like a fraternity prank.  The trick remains, "how do you make them think that one another was complicit in the fraudulent conspiracy to steal the election?"  If you can find a way to get them to turn on one another and not the rest of us, it's Morning in America again.  If not, it's blood in the streets.  

[BamaATL 16248]

18 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Yep.  All of this.  The only way to defeat him is to take that middle 25mm of his voter bloc.  And shame just enough of them to stay home and tell themselves, "I just can't with this fucking guy anymore."  You get a few million across a dozen key states, and it's game over for MAGA.  The 25mm straight ticket voters don't give a shit if it's Trump, Goebbels, or Larry the Cable Guy...they're pulling the lever no matter what.  The bottom 25mm that came out of the woodwork addicted to validation and empowerment, they're going for Trump and probably shooting up the polling station.  Focus on shaming those in that middle seam.  

But then the real fun begins.  It's not super close, but close...EC-wise.  And Trump throws a tantrum that makes J6 and the last 4 years look like a fraternity prank.  The trick remains, "how do you make them think that one another was complicit in the fraudulent conspiracy to steal the election?"  If you can find a way to get them to turn on one another and not the rest of us, it's Morning in America again.  If not, it's blood in the streets.  

He couldn't pull off a coup while in charge of the Federal Government, good luck now.  This is a guy who couldn't figure out a bus schedule.  Sure you will get a few nutters who do something crazy, but by November Trump will be lucky if he can distinguish shitting his pants from brushing his teeth.  

[Bozo_Casanova 25903]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

The "Truth Social" juror was seated, but:

Some commentators have suggested that Trump might find a guardian angel in Juror 2, the only one to have admitted to following Trump on Truth Social and to getting his news from the platform. But the media consumption graphic only tells part of the story. “I read basically everything,” Juror 2 said. “I follow Truth Social posts from Trump on Twitter. I do follow Michael Cohen, Mueller She Wrote, and some more.” He said that Trump has done some good for the country, but added “it goes both ways.” (That doesn’t sound exactly like a MAGA diehard.)

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/04/trump-jury-selection-manhattan-juror-2-merchan/

That sounds like a dummy. Advantage timeline.

Edited May 15 by Bozo_Casanova

[Brisketexan 103650]

But then the real fun begins.  It's not super close, but close...EC-wise.  And Trump throws a tantrum that makes J6 and the last 4 years look like a fraternity prank.  The trick remains, "how do you make them think that one another was complicit in the fraudulent conspiracy to steal the election?"  If you can find a way to get them to turn on one another and not the rest of us, it's Morning in America again.  If not, it's blood in the streets.  

From your lips to God’s ears. Blood in the streets is how this ends. It was always going to be that way.
Let’s make it theirs, delivered by belt-fed .50 cals from fortified rooftop positions. Stack these fuckers like cordwood, then maybe they’ll start to get the message.

[Slacks 6722]

10 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Remarkable how the pattern keeps continuing: when there's nothing to gain, these fuckers want nothing to do with Trump.  When it became apparent that showing support for Trump in court was smart politically, they ALL crawl out of the woodwork.  Pathetic

I've been calling politicians trash for a long time on these sites.

[Slacks 6722]

8 hours ago, Red Five said:

Perhaps I've missed it, but has any bootlicker actually attempted to explain WHY they think this is all a sham? I know Johnson said the other day that "Trump has done nothing wrong", which is just, wow. 

They don't care if it's a sham.

If you think about it, hey hope it's real and nothing happens.

Think about it.

[Slacks 6722]

8 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I imagine that all of republicans in attendance are being ordered there by Trump.

My bet is that it's a hung jury. There has to be one Trumpist on the jury that will refuse to budge regardless of the facts presented to them. I hope that I'm wrong.

You are not wrong. 1 out of 12. 8%. That's all it takes. This is an easy, "Is paying her to not release her story really a felony?"

Hell, I wonder that.

[atomheartbevo 89044]

9 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

I had forgotten, but I have a prior engagement this afternoon with some local Special Olympians from 1-3, so I'm not going to be able to do the play by play of the cross on Cohen.

8 hours ago, Genco said:

Good luck. Hope you make it to the medal stand.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

3 minutes ago, Slacks said:

You are not wrong. 1 out of 12. 8%. That's all it takes. This is an easy, "Is paying her to not release her story really a felony?"

Hell, I wonder that.

You know that they will be asked to answer specific questions leading to his guilt or acquittal, questions preceded by pages of detailed instructions on the applicable law.

Your quoted question won't be anywhere in there. Now, it is possible that, under notions of jury nullification, one of the jurors says fuck all that instruction shit and tries to answer your question instead.

[Eastwood 4394]

9 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Hahahahaha

[YGIFS 19445]

42 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

From your lips to God’s ears. Blood in the streets is how this ends. It was always going to be that way.
Let’s make it theirs, delivered by belt-fed .50 cals from fortified rooftop positions. Stack these fuckers like cordwood, then maybe they’ll start to get the message.

You’re a kinder man than I.  But I am reminded of remarks given by Major Lange at the Wannsee Conference over 80 years ago.  He commented on how bad for morale it was for his men to shoot civilians while looking them in the eye.   General Heydrich, cold as he was; took that advice to heart.  You cannot shoot your way to a solution.  Obviously what they did was the most horrific act of mankind ever.  But one thing can be gleaned from the man of the Wannsee conference.  Take the 25 million bottom MAGA acolytes.  And evacuate them and world will applaud us.   To give them another day to storm the capital or appear in court or defend their orange messiah will only serve to grant them the martyrdom them they show desperately seek .  
 

i have 1000 tractor trailers at my disposal in most of the 50 states. There is no need for bullets only the need for will.  We can have these people terminated within weeks instead of years.  

Edited May 15 by YGIFS

[South Austin 51681]

7 hours ago, Slacks said:

I've been calling politicians trash for a long time on these sites.

How bold and cutting-edge of you.

[Slacks 6722]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

How bold and cutting-edge of you.

I know... Yet people act surprised.

[Born to Run 6356]

From your lips to God’s ears. Blood in the streets is how this ends. It was always going to be that way.
Let’s make it theirs, delivered by belt-fed .50 cals from fortified rooftop positions. Stack these fuckers like cordwood, then maybe they’ll start to get the message.

That should have happened Jan 6. These are white people, forgive my doubts...

[DDD Dad 14076]

10 hours ago, YGIFS said:

You’re a kinder man than I.  But I am reminded of remarks given by Major Lange at the Wannsee Conference over 80 years ago.  He commented on how bad for morale it was for his men to shoot civilians while looking them in the eye.   General Heydrich, cold as he was; took that advice to heart.  You cannot shoot your way to a solution.  Obviously what they did was the most horrific act of mankind ever.  But one thing can be gleaned from the man of the Wannsee conference.  Take the 25 million bottom MAGA acolytes.  And evacuate them and world will applaud us.   To give them another day to storm the capital or appear in court or defend their orange messiah will only serve to grant them the martyrdom them they show desperately seek .  
 

i have 1000 tractor trailers at my disposal in most of the 50 states. There is no need for bullets only the need for will.  We can have these people terminated within weeks instead of years.  

 

[WhatTheBuck 28615]

[Snake Diggity 4572]

I haven’t seen anything in this trial so far that makes me think this ends with Trump in prison.  I will be surprised if the jury convicts him.  This seems to be almost entirely based on Cohen’s word along with a recorded call that Cohen determined what was recorded.  We all know Trump is guilty, but there’s just nothing so overt that at least one juror won’t get hung up on.  I’m grateful that this trial is draining Trump’s resources, but there will be no justice from this.

Edited May 15 by Snake Diggity

[BamaATL 16248]

20 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I haven’t seen anything in this trial so far that makes me think this ends with Trump in prison.  I will be surprised if the jury convicts him.  This seems to be almost entirely based on Cohen’s word along with a recorded call that Cohen determined what was recorded.  We all know Trump is guilty, but there’s just nothing so overt that at least one juror won’t get hung up on.  I’m grateful that this trial is draining Trump’s resources, but there will be no justice from this.

The jury is going to be out less than 4 hours, debating on one or two charges, Trump will be convicted on 30sih of 34 counts.  But there aren't teeth to this one really.  However, consider this a warmup act for the rest of his criminal trials, which will go equally badly for him, and the rest of them have teeth.  

[TwiceHorn 30851]

11 hours ago, Slacks said:

I've been calling politicians trash for a long time on these sites.

One can fairly conclude this. However, if most politicians are trash, that makes Trump an ocean-going garbage scow of large displacement filled entirely with the most rancid, disgusting fecal, biohazard, and radioactive waste imaginable. 

[South Austin 51681]

11 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

The jury is going to be out less than 4 hours, debating on one or two charges, Trump will be convicted on 30sih of 34 counts.  But there aren't teeth to this one really.  However, consider this a warmup act for the rest of his criminal trials, which will go equally badly for him, and the rest of them have teeth.  

[Red Five 40449]

15 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

The jury is going to be out less than 4 hours, debating on one or two charges, Trump will be convicted on 30sih of 34 counts.  But there aren't teeth to this one really.  However, consider this a warmup act for the rest of his criminal trials, which will go equally badly for him, and the rest of them have teeth.  

Getting the words "convicted felon" before his name will be nice. 

"My opponent, convicted felon Donald Trump...."

Or in a series of ads. "Not only is he a convicted felon, but he was also found liable for rape." 

[atomheartbevo 89044]

 

[Brisketexan 103650]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

He is the führer.  That's it.  Full stop.  There is no party but Trump, Trump is the party.  And it serves no great end.  It serves only Trump, his narcissism, his criminality.  AND ALL OF THESE SPINELESS, WEAK, CUCKED, PATHETIC COCKWEASELS ARE ACCOMPLICES.  If there is any justice in history (and I doubt that there is), every "Republican" of this era will go down in history as a new Himmler, Heydrich, Bormann, etc.  Mar A Lago will be looked upon as we now look on Großen Wannsee 56-58 in Wannsee.

That would be justice in history.

Don't waste time hoping for that.

[A-Tex Devil 2418]

12 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

It was so clear they were reading his words.  Or his version of what they intended to say.  

[Francisco 2.0 32214]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

He is the führer.  That's it.  Full stop.  There is no party but Trump, Trump is the party.  And it serves no great end.  It serves only Trump, his narcissism, his criminality.  AND ALL OF THESE SPINELESS, WEAK, CUCKED, PATHETIC COCKWEASELS ARE ACCOMPLICES.  If there is any justice in history (and I doubt that there is), every "Republican" of this era will go down in history as a new Himmler, Heydrich, Bormann, etc.  Mar A Lago will be looked upon as we now look on Großen Wannsee 56-58 in Wannsee.

That would be justice in history.

Don't waste time hoping for that.

 

Looking back to 2015-16, no one knew just how weak the GOP was.  Oh, it's been devoid of serious thought and political will for years now, and it put up a good front but.....to allow one person to walk in and completely morph it into something totally at odds of what the party once was is just incredulous.

Edited May 15 by Francisco 2.0

[locodos 5256]

15 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Looking back to 2015-16, no one knew just how weak the GOP was.  Oh, it's been devoid of serious thought and political will for years now, and it put up a good front but.....to allow one person to walk in and completely morph it into something totally at odds of what the party once was is just incredulous.

what now?

The only thing that changed was saying things out loud.  I may give you the open fondness for Russia, but otherwise Trump just took Reagan's shtick and ran with it.

[bolverk 29097]

8 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Looking back to 2015-16, no one knew just how weak the GOP was.  Oh, it's been devoid of serious thought and political will for years now, and it put up a good front but.....to allow one person to walk in and completely morph it into something totally at odds of what the party once was is just incredulous.

That postmortem report, written after the 2012 election, was more or less the last chance to save the "Ole" version of the GQP. Once they turned their backs on its findings, there was no hope of saving it.

Colbert's coining of the term "truthiness" in relation to Baby Bush's administration was the first meaningful call-out about where they were heading that I remember seeing stick. Always, remember this famous quote by an unnamed Bush admin official:

The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' [...] 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do'.

The next nail in the coffin was Sarah fuckin' Palin being put on the ticket in 2008.

In this context, a Trump-like authoritarian was the inevitable next logical step for the party.