Caitlin Clark …. Seriously

[Derka 6379]

2 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Well then so much for the rising tide lifting the boats then, right? You are simultaneously telling me that these women should be thankful for Caitlin Clark and the money she brings in, none of which they are seeing,

 

[closetohumping 17552]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

WNBA probably gets last open dates at their home venues and has to make it work. 

Yea well Vegas has only played 6 games.  

[d2o 1602]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

WNBA probably gets last open dates at their home venues and has to make it work. 

There is probably some of that.   IND plays at the same stadium as the Pacers which I'm sure also has a pretty large concert schedule in the summer but 6 of those 10 have been road games.   Almost all of them have been national broadcasts.    That is the league milking the cash cow.

[closetohumping 17552]

5 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Well then so much for the rising tide lifting the boats then, right? You are simultaneously telling me that these women should be thankful for Caitlin Clark and the money she brings in, none of which they are seeing, and also telling me that if they can't make money on their own it's their problem. Can't have it both ways. And like I said earlier....she is so popular, why doesn't it then make sense to come after her and make a name for yourself? Did anybody know who Chennedy Carter was before she did it?

Your last two sentences basically endorsed our argument.  Unknown players wanting attention. Angel Reese did the same thing. Had no idea who she was u til last years national title game.  These girls aren’t dumb.  They know how to latch on.  A lot more eyes on the wnba means more money

 

Also I wasn’t sure who Dillon brooks was until he got mouthy about Lebron. Some people want that rub 

[Pam Cummings 9705]

3 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Your last two sentences basically endorsed our argument.  Unknown players wanting attention. Angel Reese did the same thing. Had no idea who she was u til last years national title game.  These girls aren’t dumb.  They know how to latch on.  A lot more eyes on the wnba means more money

 

Also I wasn’t sure who Dillon brooks was until he got mouthy about Lebron. Some people want that rub 

Im just pushing back on the narrative that they are only doing it because they are dumb and jealous. What I'm saying is that it actually makes strategic sense if they would like to up their own profile and earning potential, as well as creating rivalries. The next time they play Chicago, more people will watch now to see what happens.

[Pancho 45527]

10 minutes ago, d2o said:

There is probably some of that.   IND plays at the same stadium as the Pacers which I'm sure also has a pretty large concert schedule in the summer but 6 of those 10 have been road games.   Almost all of them have been national broadcasts.    That is the league milking the cash cow.

 

They aren’t going to come out and say it but my best guess is the money/contracts they were getting for those national broadcasts on ABC and ESPN and they were milking it for what it’s worth. 

More money, sure, but it’s still shitty to do to the Fever. 

 

It’s so odd to me people don’t know who Angel Reese is when they were hyping that Reese/Clark battle in the NCAA for over a year everywhere and it was Reese who ended up with the national championship, not Clark. Baffling how that works…

[BurntOrange&White 40484]

Just now, Pancho said:

 

They aren’t going to come out and say it but my best guess is the money/contracts they were getting for those national broadcasts on ABC and ESPN and they were milking it for what it’s worth. 

More money, sure, but it’s still shitty to do to the Fever. 

 

It’s so odd to me people don’t know who Angel Reese is when they were hyping that Reese/Clark battle in the NCAA for over a year everywhere and it was Reese who ended up with the national championship, not Clark. Baffling how that works…

Because Angel Reese has painted herself into the unlikeable cunt bitch category.

[Pancho 45527]

So then people DO know Reese is, they just don’t like her. Got it. 

 

Clark has had plenty of antics too, her’s tend to get dismissed for some reason. I actually liked when her dad told her to shut up and play when she was getting mouthy in one of the Big 10 games. 

[BurntOrange&White 40484]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

So then people DO know Reese is, they just don’t like her. Got it. 

 

Clark has had plenty of antics too, her’s tend to get dismissed for some reason. I actually liked when her dad told her to shut up and play when she was getting mouthy in one of the Big 10 games. 

Would you like it if people told Reese to shut up and dribble?

['stache 21919]

17 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

I believe you, you seem to be plugged in on WNBA and not just a Johnny-come-lately like 99.99% of surly and 98% of America.

That said, it's super funny that the one woman who's name still escapes me that hip chcked Caitlin Clark, her coach had to issue an apology for her behavior on her behalf. That, my friend is hilarious. 

Kiss the Caitlin Clark ring if you want to ride the wake of her gravy train. I have never heard of Asia Clark until you posted her name upthread.

Also-- Pat McAffee-- super cringe and misogynistic to call her a "white B". Why is that guy such a CHUD?

I think it comes with the haircut.

This conversation is insane. No need to worship or bow down to Clark, but the cheapshots are asinine and need to stop. There's no justifiable reason for them, period.

[closetohumping 17552]

11 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Im just pushing back on the narrative that they are only doing it because they are dumb and jealous. What I'm saying is that it actually makes strategic sense if they would like to up their own profile and earning potential, as well as creating rivalries. The next time they play Chicago, more people will watch now to see what happens.

Ok.  I get that angle.  Again nobody knew Chennedy Carter before this weekend. Let’s see what it gets her. You still have to be marketable. 

4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Because Angel Reese has painted herself into the unlikeable cunt bitch category.

I still don’t care about her.  That’s the thing, if/when Caitlin quits or starts sucking I’m out.  I don’t watch games that don’t involve her

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

25 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Well then so much for the rising tide lifting the boats then, right? You are simultaneously telling me that these women should be thankful for Caitlin Clark and the money she brings in, none of which they are seeing, and also telling me that if they can't make money on their own it's their problem. Can't have it both ways. And like I said earlier....she is so popular, why doesn't it then make sense to come after her and make a name for yourself? Did anybody know who Chennedy Carter was before she did it?

They renegotiate their TV deal in 2025. The WNBA players should damn near be throwing games to keep CC relevant and in the news until then. 

[Pancho 45527]

Just now, ChickenSandwich said:

They renegotiate their TV deal in 2025. The WNBA players should damn near be throwing games to keep CC relevant and in the news until then. 

This.

 

And then the recruit that is supposed to be on Clark’s insane level or even better for the 2025 class is considering Texas.

 

[BurntOrange&White 40484]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

This.

 

And then the recruit that is supposed to be on Clark’s insane level or even better for the 2025 class is considering Texas.

 

Man, I think if Rori stays healthy next year with Madison we could win it all.

[d2o 1602]

 

 

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

They renegotiate their TV deal in 2025. The WNBA players should damn near be throwing games to keep CC relevant and in the news until then. 

Yeah that's stupid on levels.   Competitors are gonna compete.   Additionally, there are 144 spots in the league and players dont last long.  Its super competitive.  1st round picks are cut annually.  They may or may not reap the rewards of the league growth.

To me its WAY better theater for CC to overcome adversity.    Further, its not 100% that she will be the dominant player that so many have seemed to guarantee.   Being the #1 scorer in the NCAA does not guarantee it.   The #3 (Dyashia Fair) scorer just got cut.   The #2 scorer (Kelsey Plum) is an all star but not a franchise player, the #4 scorer is CC's teammate (Kelsey Mitchell) that everyone wants to give up the ball to CC.

[Blotto 23724]

3 minutes ago, Pancho said:

It’s so odd to me people don’t know who Angel Reese is when they were hyping that Reese/Clark battle in the NCAA for over a year everywhere and it was Reese who ended up with the national championship, not Clark. Baffling how that works…

What's baffling about people who pay zero attention to a fringe sport not knowing who Angel Reese is? I bet if you walked up to people and out of the blue asked them who Jonquel Jones is,  most people would have no fucking clue, and she is the  2021 league MVP. I sure as fuck wouldnt know, why would I? My guess is that most people wouldnt know who the hell Breanna Stewart is for that matter and she's the reigning MVP. CC  is in a different stratosphere of name recognition than everyone else in the league when your sample group is people that never watched womens hoops. 

[d2o 1602]

17 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Because Angel Reese has painted herself into the unlikeable cunt bitch category.

Hmmmm......wonder why this is.    Especially when CC is just as bad on the court.  Maybe worse.

 

 

[BurntOrange&White 40484]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

Hmmmm......wonder why this is.    Especially when CC is just as bad on the court.  Maybe worse.

 

 

Probably because of how she acts on and off the court? On top of trying to play victim when things don't go her way? Where as CC generally leave it between the lines on the court and doesn't carry it over into the media and tends to take the high road when it comes to press conferences and never cries "poor me"

Edited June 3 by BurntOrange&White

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Probably because of how she acts on and off the court? On top of trying to play victim when things don't go her way? Where as CC generally leave it between the lines on the court and doesn't carry it over into the media and tends to take the high road when it comes to press conferences and never cries "poor me"

People hated her before she said anything in a presser.  Her statements in that presser were due to actual fucking death threats simply because she did CC's celebration TO CC and had the audacity to beat her team. 

 

 

[d2o 1602]

So many of these guys need women in the room when they talk about women's sports.   Complete clown shit.

 

 

 

[Deej 77234]

52 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Well then so much for the rising tide lifting the boats then, right? You are simultaneously telling me that these women should be thankful for Caitlin Clark and the money she brings in, none of which they are seeing, and also telling me that if they can't make money on their own it's their problem. Can't have it both ways. And like I said earlier....she is so popular, why doesn't it then make sense to come after her and make a name for yourself? Did anybody know who Chennedy Carter was before she did it?

Maybe if these women weren't so short-sighted, they'd realize that that rising tide would probably lift their boats eventually as viewership increases and companies invest more in endorsement. And some athletes are marketable and some are not. If you're not, that is pretty much on you. Sorry if you aren't charismatic. Should LeBron have to share his endorsement money with some 12th man off the bench, just to be fair? 

[Pancho 45527]

15 minutes ago, Blotto said:

What's baffling about people who pay zero attention to a fringe sport not knowing who Angel Reese is? I bet if you walked up to people and out of the blue asked them who Jonquel Jones is,  most people would have no fucking clue, and she is the  2021 league MVP. I sure as fuck wouldnt know, why would I? My guess is that most people wouldnt know who the hell Breanna Stewart is for that matter and she's the reigning MVP. CC  is in a different stratosphere of name recognition than everyone else in the league when your sample group is people that never watched womens hoops. 

 

You’re *sort of* helping make my point. People know Clark because her play helped usher in a new set of fans. Excellent. Great. Fantastic. 

But Clark isn’t the entirety of the sport. Something happens to her in her first few WNBA games an all of a sudden this new fanbase goes apeshit when those same things have been happening to other players for years and no one said a word. People know Clark but the ESPN and national media hype machine putting her and Reese against each other for that NC game yet they don’t know who Reese is when she was playing in the exact same NC game and actually won the NC over Clark? Yes, that’s a little baffling. The national media was pitting those 2 against each other.

You can search all of this site and shaggy and HF and you will consistently hear me preach that women’s basketball is a niche sport. There’s nothing wrong with that or even saying that out loud. But to say they’ve never heard of Angel Reese after that NC game—and when Reese played for Skeletor at LSU on top of that—is just a bit odd in my book.

[Al_4_ISU 12542]

6 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Has she said she’s straight, or has a public relationship? Aren’t most of the women in the league Christian?

She goes out with the son of the Iowa MBB coach (who played at Iowa for like 6 years).

Although a lot of people around Iowa City insist he's just a beard, given the current climate of the state.

[DixonHur 11621]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

What bothers me is this portrayal of the other women as "just being catty" or "they're just jealous of her", as if any human that is in that situation wouldn't feel the exact same way. You guys realize that when Pete Maravich was drafted, his salary as a rookie exceeded the salaries of the rest of his teammates combined, right? He had teammates resent him and refuse to play with him that went to the ABA. This is a natural dynamic at play here and it isn't just women who would feel that way if they were in that situation. You have established players being well out-earned by a rookie and being told they should thank their lucky stars that she came along and that they have the opportunity to play with her. How should they feel.

I find it telling that you're comparing today's WNBA with the NBA of 1970.  In 1970, the NBA was doing all it could to boost enthusiasm for a league that put a boring product on the court.  The upstart ABA was kicking their ass with a much better experience up-tempo offenses, 3-point shooting, slam dunk contests, etc.  

So, they needed to pay more to get exciting players, like Pete Maravich and Kareem.  So, while Pete's $1.9m rookie contract (5 years) was high compared to his teammates, a precedent had been set the year before when Kareem signed a $1.8m rookie deal (after turning down $3.2m to go to the ABA). Plus, Caitlin's salary is roughly the same as everyone else in the WNBA, so why would they resent her for that?  They don't like that she gets a lot of attention, and endorsement money, which is completely different.  

If they focused on putting a compelling product on the floor, that people actually want to see, they'd also get the benefit of the marketing dollars Caitlin is bringing to the league, but nope, they're attacking her because they resent that a white girl is making all the money in a league that's 80% POC.  I get it, but that doesn't mean it's strategically smart. 

It would be more understandable if the Cavender twins were in the WNBA making millions in endorsements while sucking on the court, but Caitlin was the best women's college basketball player of all-time, at a time when women's sports in general were seeing an uptick in viewership. 

As for the Candace Parker comparison, I don't know, I've only ever seen the one fight.  But that looked like she was more of the aggressor.  Pierson was just blocking out and Parker pulled her down.  In Caitlin's case, she was just standing by the endline waiting for a pass.  

Edited June 3 by DixonHur

[DixonHur 11621]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Well then so much for the rising tide lifting the boats then, right? You are simultaneously telling me that these women should be thankful for Caitlin Clark and the money she brings in, none of which they are seeing, and also telling me that if they can't make money on their own it's their problem. Can't have it both ways. And like I said earlier....she is so popular, why doesn't it then make sense to come after her and make a name for yourself? Did anybody know who Chennedy Carter was before she did it?

It's been a few weeks and she's already gotten them chartered flights.  Good grief people, give it some time.

As for Chennedy, how exactly do you see her "making a name" for herself by dishing out cheap fouls leading to more money?  Do you think a league full of Desmond Green and Bill Laimbeer types would generate as much revenue, both salaries and endorsements, as one with Lebron James and Steph Curry types?  

Here's a novel concept, how about these ladies make a name for themselves by putting a good product on the court?  

 

[DixonHur 11621]

*Draymond... Autocorrect 1 - Dixon 0

[closetohumping 17552]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

*Draymond... Autocorrect 1 - Dixon 0

Dillon brooks imo.  Or Mitch blood green.   Just trying to get famous, as misguided as that may be. Or he’ll maybe there’s genuine hate from aggy cartert

[Pancho 45527]

36 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

It's been a few weeks and she's already gotten them chartered flights.  Good grief people, give it some time.

As for Chennedy, how exactly do you see her "making a name" for herself by dishing out cheap fouls leading to more money?  Do you think a league full of Desmond Green and Bill Laimbeer types would generate as much revenue, both salaries and endorsements, as one with Lebron James and Steph Curry types?  

Here's a novel concept, how about these ladies make a name for themselves by putting a good product on the court?  

 

Neither Clark herself nor her coming into the league made the league say "Clarks here, we need chartered flights now!"

That did not happen so no, she didn't get them chartered flights. The league had been exploring that for a season or 2 before she got there. 

 

Correlation? Sure...

Causation?

[Pato del Muerto 52902]

1 minute ago, BeardIP said:

and capturing White America's mainstream attention and money

Has this really happened?

[closetohumping 17552]

1 minute ago, BeardIP said:

Riiiiight. Chartered flights were happening and the ball was set in motion two years ago, with or without Caitlin Clark being a superstar and capturing White America's mainstream attention and money.

That's the argument you are going with?

Come to think of it they’re right.  These women, have been helping the league since….checks Google 1996…..are the reason why there are chartered flights.  And here o thought the league was losing money all these years!!

[Pancho 45527]

35 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Come to think of it they’re right.  These women, have been helping the league since….checks Google 1996…..are the reason why there are chartered flights.  And here o thought the league was losing money all these years!!

Who is saying that? Why are you getting so emotional and defense about Clark I wonder?

[Message Board User 12397]

LOL...she jelly af.  Reese could disappear from the face of the Earth tomorrow and the WNBA would have the same level of interest (whatever that level is) tomorrow as it does today.

What team does Reese play on again?  I forget.

 

[closetohumping 17552]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

Who is saying that? Why are you getting so emotional and defense about Clark I wonder?

[closetohumping 17552]

1 hour ago, BeardIP said:

Is that why you are over-rotating the other way and mentally trying to bend like a pretzel to minimize Clark's impact and stature? You see yourself as a counterbalance here on this conversation to those who are emotionally defensive about the Great White Hype(ess)?

I'm not emotional and I've said if she ends up sucking, I'm gone.  Somebody else is over here screaming and cursing about CC though.  Triggered as they say.

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

1 hour ago, BeardIP said:

I mean, I think so. Last sentence seems to sum it up: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5440119/2024/04/25/caitlin-clark-marketability-racial-bias/

 

Arguably none of the WNBA players deserved the hype that CC is getting. She is getting the traditional basketball fan to at least take note, check a box score or not ff the espn segment, and it is because of the way she plays, not skin color. 

The NBA sure doesnt have an issue with brand ambassadors of color, neither do any of the other pro sports in the US in 2024. 
 

Serena, Michelle Wei, Biles, and Rap. All brand ambassadors for their sport. 

[boilerhorn 1451]

53 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

LOL...she jelly af.  Reese could disappear from the face of the Earth tomorrow and the WNBA would have the same level of interest (whatever that level is) tomorrow as it does today.

What team does Reese play on again?  I forget.

 

That was one of the first "interviews" that showed up when I searched "Angel Reese."

Each WNBA player has her own form of antics, taunting, etc. on the court.  It is part of the game, as it is for the me.  What separates Clark from Reese is the behavior in front of the camera of the court.  Reese has a chip on her shoulder on and off the court.  Clark appears far more down to earth and humble OFF the court than Reese. 

In the interview, Reese says, "It's because of me, too."  Well, that is not supported by the data.

The actu
 

[d2o 1602]

9 minutes ago, boilerhorn said:

That was one of the first "interviews" that showed up when I searched "Angel Reese."

Each WNBA player has her own form of antics, taunting, etc. on the court.  It is part of the game, as it is for the me.  What separates Clark from Reese is the behavior in front of the camera of the court.  Reese has a chip on her shoulder on and off the court.  Clark appears far more down to earth and humble OFF the court than Reese. 

In the interview, Reese says, "It's because of me, too."  Well, that is not supported by the data.

The actu
 

Her first game wasnt streamed yet drew 400k watching a live stream that someone filmed on their phone at the game.   There is PLENTY of interest in her as well.  Not as much as CC but still plenty.

 

EDIT: my fault it was 600k

 

https://www.blackenterprise.com/fan-livestreams-angel-reese-debut/

Edited June 3 by d2o

[DixonHur 11621]

2 hours ago, Pancho said:

Neither Clark herself nor her coming into the league made the league say "Clarks here, we need chartered flights now!"

That did not happen so no, she didn't get them chartered flights. The league had been exploring that for a season or 2 before she got there. 

 

Correlation? Sure...

Causation?

Here's what we know... they were "exploring" chartered flights for 2 years.  2 Years!  Either they have the world's worst financial analysts, or "exploring" was the equivalent of my mom saying "we'll see" when I asked for something expensive.  I did an analysis for chartering jets to fly Chinese gamblers to a casino in the Caribbean and it took me maybe 2 months.

Then, Caitlin gets drafted on April 15th and her team... not the WNBA, her team, decided to charter flights for security reasons on May 1st.  Eight days later, the WNBA announced that all teams would get charter flights by May 21st.

But I'm sure that was all just a big coincidence.

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

22 minutes ago, boilerhorn said:

That was one of the first "interviews" that showed up when I searched "Angel Reese."

Each WNBA player has her own form of antics, taunting, etc. on the court.  It is part of the game, as it is for the me.  What separates Clark from Reese is the behavior in front of the camera of the court.  Reese has a chip on her shoulder on and off the court.  Clark appears far more down to earth and humble OFF the court than Reese. 

In the interview, Reese says, "It's because of me, too."  Well, that is not supported by the data.

The actu
 

League expansion seems like a very poor choice for the WNBA.  There is already a large lack of talent and this will further water it down. 

[boilerhorn 1451]

25 minutes ago, d2o said:

Her first game wasnt streamed yet drew 400k watching a live stream that someone filmed on their phone at the game.   There is PLENTY of interest in her as well.  Not as much as CC but still plenty.

 

EDIT: my fault it was 600k

 

https://www.blackenterprise.com/fan-livestreams-angel-reese-debut/

That's fair.  The "Time Watched Per User" stat is interesting - 1min, 12s.  Some clearly were watching the game b/c of Reese.  

For reference, the cumulative watch time was 145 days 16h.  Given the game lasted 1:58 (stats below), that's roughly the same as 1777 fans sitting through the entire thing.  So, we've established the extrema: 1777 to 600k.  

I like this comment from the articlek, which would have surely been a barrier to entry:

“Anybody who watched it should send three bucks to the person—I don’t even know who it is,” Reeve said. I think that what I would say is that the growth is happening so fast. It’s so accelerated. And I’ve been saying this in our own organization—that business as usual isn’t going to work anymore.

 

 

[ztejas 43752]

7 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

In a league where everyone makes a teachers salary,

League min is $67k (the exact same as the MLS). Average salary is $120k with quite a few clearing $200k. Rookies like CC and Brink are swimming in it - as are marketable players doing big social media numbers or TV spots like Plum and Candace Parker. 

And it isn't a year-round job. They can make money doing whatever they want in the offseason. 

All that to say - basically all of them are doing better than the average teacher while working an easier job.

[boilerhorn 1451]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

League min is $67k (the exact same as the MLS). Average salary is $120k with quite a few clearing $200k. Rookies like CC and Brink are swimming in it - as are marketable players doing big social media numbers or TV spots like Plum and Candace Parker. 

And it isn't a year-round job. They can make money doing whatever they want in the offseason. 

All that to say - basically all of them are doing better than the average teacher while working an easier job.

I have daughters (no pics) who are teachers.  They'd be smiling ear to ear at $120k.

[d2o 1602]

 

 

[tx 3 putt 77956]

 

[BurntOrange&White 40484]

[Derka 6379]

wnba players have been screaming for attention for years. they’re finally getting it, and it turns out we all like what they have to offer less than we did before we paid any attention. it would be hilarious if the league folded and these women had to get jobs.

[ButtFumble 5196]

has Don Imus chimed in on this?

[LTtxfan 49420]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

 

 

Someone got the clip Angel is claiming will show that she got hit as terribly as Caitlin?

[dcar00 14616]

nobody is going to care again next year most likely and certainly if Clark keeps shooting 28% from 3 and her team loses.

[closetohumping 17552]

27 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

But...but...BUT....to be fair, one of the 17k attendance games had Angel Reese as well.