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Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 2:04 AM, d2o said:

Anything other than complete deferral to CC is unacceptable. 

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you know you’re losing the argument when everyone on your side resorts to hyperbolic hypotheticals that nobody on the other side is saying. you, pancho, pam- you e all done this throughout this entire conversation. that’s not arguing in good faith, that’s just making shit up and attributing to the opposing side.

Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 4:24 PM, definitely not derka said:

response from the amazing players that are on the floor : “fuck caitlin clark!”

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Was talking to a neighbor yesterday whose daughter is really getting into hoops like mine.  And he brought up the Olympic team deal.  And I said, "I honestly had no idea who she was until a few months ago when my girl's teammates started talking about her at practice.  If she looks up to her, cool with me.  But I honestly don't get all the animosity towards her in the WNBA."

And Jay said with a straight face, "Well, there's a lotta politics in the WNBA."

And I thought to myself "WNBA Politics?  Yeah, that's not a thing."  

Posted

That dude's video is a bit on the condescending and misguided side, but a few questions...

-I'm a pretty progressive cat.  And I have never heard the term (2:00 mark) "Tall Privilege" in relation to sports.  Last I checked the literal and figurative "goal" in basketball, is 10' off the ground.  Seems to me, taller people would be better equipped to reach that "goal."  Is there "Speed Privilege" in football or "Arm Privilege" in baseball?  that's a new one, even for me. 

-I certainly believe there is some small component of race in Caitlin's draw to fans/sponsors in the game of professional basketball.  I know that Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, et. al. only became the highest grossing athletes in NBA history because of their white privilege.  

-Just from a finance guy perspective, I just don't get the animosity.  I mean, haze the rookie some...sure.  compare paystubs, got it.  But she is not the problem with your league.  The quality of play is the problem, and she may be able to elevate it with her 'tallness.'  She probably won't bail for Europe because her endorsement deals are where 80% of her income will come from and will be more U.S.-driven than anywhere else.  But this just seems like such a weird monetary flex (or lack thereof).  And the final dirty little secret, the NBA is annoyed as fuck with this shit.  They're already floating a losing enterprise, now you want them to float a reality TV show with some basketball peppered in between?   

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Posted (edited)
  On 6/9/2024 at 4:36 PM, YGIFS said:

And Jay said with a straight face, "Well, there's a lotta politics in the WNBA."  And I thought to myself "WNBA Politics?  Yeah, that's not a thing."  

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Yeah there's different folks focused on political things...Examples are:

  • "pretty privilege"
  • "straight privilege"
  • "white privilege"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/caitlin-clark-and-the-politics-of-pretty-privilege/ar-BB1nSMQI

 

 

Edited by LTtxfan
Posted

I absolutely get that.  Being straight is easier than being gay.  Being white is easier than being black.  Being pretty is easier than being ugly.  There's parallel examples in almost every country all over the world.  And yes, especially for me, life's easier being tall than being short.  unless you're a super tall guy (6'6"+) or gal (6'2"+), in which case there are health ramifications.  

I've just never heard "Tall Privilege" used in the context of basketball.  The rim is 10' up there, yeah---there's gonna be tall people playing the game.  There are degrees of benefits to height in most sports, but to complain about "tall privilege" in literally the highest up game in all of sports, that just seemed like a weird stance to take.  I'm sure she has complex opinions on why gymnasts and weightlifters are so short.  "SHORT PRIVILEGE!"  

Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 5:49 PM, LTtxfan said:

Yeah there's different folks focused on political things...Examples are:

  • "pretty privilege"
  • "straight privilege"
  • "white privilege"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/caitlin-clark-and-the-politics-of-pretty-privilege/ar-BB1nSMQI

 

 

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As soon as she said “With that being said” you knew she would undo everything prior to that. 

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Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 4:03 PM, LTtxfan said:

Caitlin“Sometimes it stinks how much the conversation is outside of basketball and not the product on the floor and the amazing players that are on the floor and how good they are for their teams and how great this season has been for women’s basketball.”

 

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Here's hoping things move past all the anger and frustrations out there, and a lot more focus goes to basketball... like Caitlin said above.

Posted

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2024/06/08/caitlin-clark-olympic-decision-usa-basketball/74028245007/

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Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 6:18 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

What does pretty privilege have to do with Clark?  If we are going there, and we shouldn’t be, she’s got an average face and is flat as an ironing board. 

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I think it was a veiled way to say "white privilege" a different way.  Yeah, we should not judge athletes based on their attractiveness.  But then, we don't run shoe companies or sports drinks companies.  Alex Morgan and Coco Gauff get more money because they are objectively attractive to men and women alike.  I don't make the rules of biology or marketing.  And spoiler alert, Coco isn't getting paid because of "tall privilege", she's 5-9.  

To your point, not to be sexist.  But Caitlin is not getting by on looks.  She has a nice smile and some charisma, but she's not getting paid because she looks like Anna Kournicova or because she's getting 'tall privilege.'  I'm assuming she'll probably command 10%+ more than a black athlete of her skill set would get on an endorsement deal.  And that sucks, and I bet if people would just give her a chance, she'd probably try to help rectify that.  But nope, the league has decided to shit on her instead.  

And again, I don't think most Americans realize how our Olympic squads get funded.  Corporate partnerships and personal fundraising.  It's not fair, but that's how our model is setup.  We don't do state-funded national teams anymore.  Caitlin coming in for 4 minutes at the end of the 2024 game versus Albania keeps eyeballs on the screen, and it raises millions upon millions of dollars for the 2028 squad in the interim.  

Oh wait, is this the part where we pretend Olympic basketball isn't about money?  

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Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 6:18 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

What does pretty privilege have to do with Clark?  If we are going there, and we shouldn’t be, she’s got an average face and is flat as an ironing board. 

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I don’t think she’s that attractive at all. IMO Cameron brink is easily hotter and there’s probably 50* hotter women in the league.  It’s the way she plays that makes the audience gravitate towards her imo

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Posted (edited)
  On 6/9/2024 at 6:51 PM, closetohumping said:

I don’t think she’s that attractive at all. IMO Cameron brink is easily hotter and there’s probably 50* hotter women in the league.  It’s the way she plays that makes the audience gravitate towards her imo

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In a league full of Marla Hooch's and Doris Murphy's, Clark is an Evelyn Gardner.

Edited by HtownHorn
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Posted

this is getting to be a weird thread, and that's saying something for this board.  

-There is objective evidence that she does benefit a bit from being white.  and that the WNBA and USWNT would probably do well not to throw her under the bus for bringing money and eyeballs.  But as we see all across America these days, people love to vote against their own interests in some sort of "display."  

-She's not getting by on her looks, sorry.  She's average looking, we all know it.  All the other players and commentators know it.  You don't hit 30' jumpers based on being a 6.  

-I just saw another article mentioning 'Tall Privilege.'  Seriously, how the fuck is this a thing in basketball?  It sounds like something fucking Joe Rogan made up.  

Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 7:45 PM, YGIFS said:

-I just saw another article mentioning 'Tall Privilege.'  Seriously, how the fuck is this a thing in basketball?  It sounds like something fucking Joe Rogan made up.  

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I’m sure it’s just like the looks thing, where studies show tall people get x more jobs/raises/whatever.  Not sure how well that applies in a profession where pretty much everyone is of above average height, or endorsements where it doesn’t matter (Kevin hart). 

Posted

Yeah, it certainly exists in the private sector.  Maybe even in the military/government.  In some sports, it's a liability like horseracing or gymnastics.  But I've just never heard it applied to the one game where you have to build a team with the tallest people available, even guards.  Yes, there was Mugsy Bogues.  But there've been 1000 guards that were 6'6"+.  Is there "left-handed" privilege in the bullpen of baseball?  Jesse Orosco would probably say yes since he's still pitching professionally once a week for 3 minutes at age 107.  

Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 6:51 PM, closetohumping said:

I don’t think she’s that attractive at all. IMO Cameron brink is easily hotter and there’s probably 50* hotter women in the league.  It’s the way she plays that makes the audience gravitate towards her imo

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Meh...

image.png.6f902b41fad5a27a70b880eb1d503830.png

Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 7:34 PM, HtownHorn said:

In a league full of Marla Hooch's and Doris Murphy's, Clark is an Evelyn Gardner.

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Did you know the actress that played Dottie was Keanu reeves love interest in point break?

  On 6/9/2024 at 7:50 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

I’m sure it’s just like the looks thing, where studies show tall people get x more jobs/raises/whatever.  Not sure how well that applies in a profession where pretty much everyone is of above average height, or endorsements where it doesn’t matter (Kevin hart). 

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Tall and good looking tends to be a good thing.  

  On 6/9/2024 at 8:41 PM, LTtxfan said:

Meh...

image.png.6f902b41fad5a27a70b880eb1d503830.png

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Fair enough.  This is like ordering Cameron Diaz from Wish

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Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 8:41 PM, LTtxfan said:

Meh...

image.png.6f902b41fad5a27a70b880eb1d503830.png

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When I was in grad school we used the term "MBA hot" to describe women in program who were attractive in relation to the average female MBA candidate, but who wouldn't be considered quite as attractive in the general population.

She's WNBA hot 

Posted

I never have followed any WNBA team closely, but I will keep up with the Fever more often than any other team. I find the Aces to be a fascinating team because of how they play as well though. Clark is what a dozen games into her rookie season and is the face of the league. I find the jealousy exhibited towards her to be childish and immature, but people are going to people. Nothing new under the sun.

Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 7:45 PM, YGIFS said:

this is getting to be a weird thread, and that's saying something for this board.  

-There is objective evidence that she does benefit a bit from being white.  and that the WNBA and USWNT would probably do well not to throw her under the bus for bringing money and eyeballs.  But as we see all across America these days, people love to vote against their own interests in some sort of "display."  

-She's not getting by on her looks, sorry.  She's average looking, we all know it.  All the other players and commentators know it.  You don't hit 30' jumpers based on being a 6.  

-I just saw another article mentioning 'Tall Privilege.'  Seriously, how the fuck is this a thing in basketball?  It sounds like something fucking Joe Rogan made up.  

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Link to objective evidence?

Posted

So is it not possible for a white female basketball player to warrant this level of hype on pure merit?  Is there a higher level as a pro prospect should could have achieved to do so or is it simply unachievable?

I’m old enough to remember HS Lebron signing a $90 million dollar shoe deal, espn broadcasting his HS games, cover of SI and being one of the most famous athletes in the country before ever playing a game. It’s merit was never questioned. 
 

Is that possible for a white female basketball player?

Posted
  On 6/10/2024 at 12:06 AM, YGIFS said:

You need a link to understand that it's, on the whole, easier being white in the United States than any other race/ethnicity?  Okay.  

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For sports?  Idk about that. Most nfl and nba players happen to be black.  Also Jokic should be the four time mvp.  Why were guys like Perkins openly campaigning against him?   

Posted

that's why I said "on the whole", meaning all of American society.  Otherwise, I would have said "pro sports" or "college sports" or "athletics" 

On the whole, at the macro level, 35000ft. view, insert cliche here............it is easier to be White in the United States than not be White.  Obviously individual cases may vary, especially in sports.  

On the whole, at the macro level, etc.  Life if is easier when you're right-handed and attractive and thin.  Some shit, just is.  Wasn't my idea.  

I'm saying I think Caitlin is great for the sport.  My daughter loves her.  She's aces in my book.  Being white has nothing to do with her play on the court, but it will help her a tad on endorsements, but nothing she probably wouldn't go on to warrant otherwise.  Sorry, I'm just stuck in a loop here because of the "tall privilege" thing that the media keeps throwing out there.  In fucking basketball, of all sports.  It's like claiming Alex Morgan or Mesi has "foot privilege" in soccer because people with club-foot can't play football very well.  Also, don't enter "Foot privilege" in your porn browser searches.  It gets weird in a hurry.  

Posted
  On 6/10/2024 at 1:31 AM, YGIFS said:

that's why I said "on the whole", meaning all of American society.  Otherwise, I would have said "pro sports" or "college sports" or "athletics" 

On the whole, at the macro level, 35000ft. view, insert cliche here............it is easier to be White in the United States than not be White.  Obviously individual cases may vary, especially in sports.  

On the whole, at the macro level, etc.  Life if is easier when you're right-handed and attractive and thin.  Some shit, just is.  Wasn't my idea.  

I'm saying I think Caitlin is great for the sport.  My daughter loves her.  She's aces in my book.  Being white has nothing to do with her play on the court, but it will help her a tad on endorsements, but nothing she probably wouldn't go on to warrant otherwise.  Sorry, I'm just stuck in a loop here because of the "tall privilege" thing that the media keeps throwing out there.  In fucking basketball, of all sports.  It's like claiming Alex Morgan or Mesi has "foot privilege" in soccer because people with club-foot can't play football very well.  Also, don't enter "Foot privilege" in your porn browser searches.  It gets weird in a hurry.  

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Sir this is a Wendys. 
 

 

Or a thread about Cailtin Clark

Posted
  On 6/9/2024 at 10:28 PM, LTtxfan said:

 

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Fantastic answer.  All of it's true.  Her time will come.  If she improves she may even be a late addition; Chelsea Gray has a foot injury and hasn't played in 9 months.  Folks need to take a breath.  It's all gonna be okay.  She'll get her chances..... maybe some time soon.

Posted

putting this here since the three people who actually post in the wnba thread get all pissy if you post anything that isn’t blond sunshine pumping for this league.

leave it to the wnba to be so embarrassing that jason whitlock can rightfully call you on your bullshit.

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Posted

 

  On 6/9/2024 at 12:03 AM, definitely not derka said:

how do you still not get this? the wnba and its players have been moaning and bitching since the dawn of time for people to pay attention to them. it’s *finally* happened, the nation is *finally* interested in the league/sport, it’s *all* because of caitlyn clark, and yet the wnba collectively responds by cheap shotting and shit talking cc, and now she’s not even going to be included in the showcase event for their sport. they *finally* have the real chance to grow their sport and get the attention they’ve been begging for, and instead of embracing it they are trying to kill it. it’s stranger than fiction. it’s just straight up insane.

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Derka, stop with the “oMg, hOw dO YaLL noT gEt it” diatribe. It’s stupid. No one is saying that they don’t get what you’re saying. Not once have I said Clark hasn’t had an impact on the league in a positive way because she has. (And if I did say that on this thread or others, I take that back because it’s not what I meant). Yes, she’s causes a new “set” of fans to pay attention to the league. Yes, it’s positive, and yes I’ve wondered how other players don’t see this as a positive as well.

However, 

My argument on these threads has always been and still stands—there have been badass players similar to Clark in this league for decades, why is it her that has caused a certain “set” of fans to start paying attention and garner interest? Why didn’t they garner interest with players like Aja Wilson, Candace Parker, Taurasi, Delle Donne, Kelsey Plum, Sue Bird, Ionescu, Arika, Skyler and many more—and this doesn’t even include Swoopes, Leslie, Catchings, Cooper (Still a fucking bitch which is why i t’d her ass up every time when i reffed at TSU), and more. So far the consensus is because she’s a.) White (which I’ve argued there have been ton of badass White players in the WNBA before why this White one now) and b.) she shoots like Steph, which is a fine argument by me because that’s what basketball (regardless of gender or level) seems to be now.

Both arguments can be true at the same time. As I’ve said before, I’ve given Clark props before and I’ll most likely do it again. 

  On 6/9/2024 at 4:27 PM, definitely not derka said:

you know you’re losing the argument when everyone on your side resorts to hyperbolic hypotheticals that nobody on the other side is saying. you, pancho, pam- you e all done this throughout this entire conversation. that’s not arguing in good faith, that’s just making shit up and attributing to the opposing side.

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No, a hyperbolic hypothetical doesn’t mean you’re losing the argument. I’m not sure where you got this from. 

Posted
  On 6/10/2024 at 12:15 PM, BurntOrange&White said:

 

 

 

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Which is what I’ve said before—if you put her on on the team because of what certain posters here have argued that she’s the face of the league and because it would generate millions of new “sets” of watchers, what happens when she just doesn’t nothing but sit on the bench for most of the games or only plays in blowouts of Croatia or Denmark or North Haverbrook?

 

Then what?

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Posted
  On 6/10/2024 at 12:49 PM, Pancho said:

 

Which is what I’ve said before—if you put her on on the team because of what certain posters here have argued that she’s the face of the league and because it would generate millions of new “sets” of watchers, what happens when she just doesn’t nothing but sit on the bench for most of the games or only plays in blowouts of Croatia or Denmark or North Haverbrook?

 

Then what?

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Then people will spend untold hours continuing to talk and debate about women's basketball. Something they won't do otherwise.

Posted
  On 6/10/2024 at 1:13 PM, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Then people will spend untold hours continuing to talk and debate about women's basketball. Something they won't do otherwise.

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Will they talk about women’s basketball or just why isn’t Clark playing? Because women’s basketball as a whole isn’t being talked about here—it’s just her.  

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