Caitlin Clark …. Seriously

[DixonHur 11,342]

5 minutes ago, d2o said:

They all have ratings less than half of the Olympic games that you all are saying a CC W game would outdraw

I don't remember ever saying that.  

What I did say is that people will watch their home team in the Olympics regardless of sport.  Hell, I'll watch the US team in just about any sport during the Olympics, but the chances of me watching that sport at any other time during the intervening years is near zero.  IE I care about the US winning medals, not about the particular sport.

Outside Men's basketball, and a few WNBA players I've learned recently, I probably couldn't name 3-5 US Olympians competing this year.

[d2o 1,602]

14 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

 

Any of those W games?

 

8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I couldn't imagine trying to make the argument that Brink, Clark, and Reese wouldn't pump viewership numbers. 

Never said that.   

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

Any of those W games?

 

Never said that.   

You don't have to, your gatekeeping is doing it for you.

Edited June 11 by BurntOrange&White

[d2o 1,602]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You don't have to, your gatekeeping is doing it for you.

Nah, that's what you wanna see.   I have no issue with CC or any of the rookies.

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

Nah, that's what you wanna see.   I have no issue with CC or any of the rookies.

So why are you arguing against having them on the team? It's literally the best possible thing for the WNBA growth and US women's basketball moving forward. 

[Pancho 44,861]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Holy shit some people are canonizing her for some reason. 

Well he did say he’s only a Clark fan because she’s White and straight, and she’s “America’s Sweetheart” type White even though America is a melting pot of all different races and there are a ton of great White players in the WNBA right now as well so is canonizing is the next step.

 

[immamac 42,874]

Women's basketball is too stupid to get out of it's own way. 

[Pancho 44,861]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

I'm fine with a rookie not making the team, but seeing the average age as over 30 seems really weird. I also agree that if you add Clark primarily for attention, add the other two popular rookies too. Make them play nice and stop catfighting on the internet.

The average age of the team is 30.08

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

1 minute ago, BeardIP said:

I appreciate having her as a role model for young girls = let's canonize her!111

I also appreciated Steph Curry as a role model for young men, for the exact same reasons I appreciate Clark.

ofc you  picked the light skin brotha for this argument, so shameful.

[Derka 6,281]

 

aside from the fact that this lady doesn’t know what the word purview means, if she’s serious about them not caring how many people tune in or root for the team then she’s admitting that she’s bad at her job, as well as refuting the no.1 talking point of women’s basketball over the last 10-15 years which has been, “pay attention to us!!!”

michael jordan and the dream team used the world stage to promote basketball and now it’s a mega global sport just like soccer. we can directly link the existence of so many great modern european players with the 1992 dream team and the way they took the game worldwide. but what do the women do when they have a chance to grow their sport just sitting on a tee for them? they go out of their way to make people dislike them even more than they already did. way to go women. you guys truly are the way showers when it comes to earning people's respect.

Edited June 11 by definitely not derka

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

 

 

[DixonHur 11,342]

3 minutes ago, definitely not derka said:

aside from the fact that this lady doesn’t know what the word purview means

Why do you say that?  Seems like she used it correctly to me.  

[Derka 6,281]

3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Why do you say that?  Seems like she used it correctly to me.  

because it *is* in her purview to get people tuned in and rooting for team usa and women’s basketball. 

eta: especially when winning gold is a formality. if you want your sport to grow there’s no bigger stage then the olympics.

Edited June 11 by definitely not derka

[Pancho 44,861]

Reese, Clark, and Brink really wouldn’t play. They’d be sitting on the bench except for the last few minutes in blowouts. Is that going to bring in millions of new viewers and followers?

 

And yes, purview is correctly used in that statement. 

[immamac 42,874]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

Reese, Clark, and Brink really wouldn’t play. They’d be sitting on the bench except for the last few minutes in blowouts. Is that going to bring in millions of new viewers and followers?

 

And yes, purview is correctly used in that statement. 

Yes it is. Jesus fucking Christ stop being so dense. 

[Derka 6,281]

11 minutes ago, definitely not derka said:

because it *is* in her purview to get people tuned in and rooting for team usa and women’s basketball. 

eta: especially when winning gold is a formality. if you want your sport to grow there’s no bigger stage then the olympics.

than*. jesus that bugs me.

[DixonHur 11,342]

20 minutes ago, definitely not derka said:

because it *is* in her purview to get people tuned in and rooting for team usa and women’s basketball. 

eta: especially when winning gold is a formality. if you want your sport to grow there’s no bigger stage then the olympics.

Agree to disagree.  I don't think it's the committee's job to worry about TV ratings... that's the network's job.

The committee should focus on putting the best team on the floor.  As much as I think Caitlin is great for women's sports, and basketball in particular, I don't think she's one of the 12 best women's basketball players in the US yet.  

Check back in 4 years.

[DixonHur 11,342]

1 minute ago, BeardIP said:

Doesn't anyone remember the McDonald's Cups you would get for the original Dream Team? Those were coveted.

Comparing CC's inclusion on the 2024 women's Olympic team to the 1992 Dream Team is head scratching at best.  Just stop with that already.

[ChickenSandwich 9,843]

2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Comparing CC's inclusion on the 2024 women's Olympic team to the 1992 Dream Team is head scratching at best.  Just stop with that already.

 Christian Laettner Disagrees. 

[DixonHur 11,342]

7 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

All I'm saying is that a CC Olympic team would have more visiblity, branding, sales, eyeballs, you name it. People, the laymen, the salt of the earth (you know, moron, or however that movie quote goes) would care. Not just the WNBA diehards.

Did you already forget the post 5 posts ago:

 

I'm saying that only matters in the US, and if you are a sports fan living in America and haven't heard of Caitlin Clark yet, you're not likely to care.

[Pato del Muerto 52,532]

19 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Team USA merch (jerseys) sales and corporate tie-ins alone would add $$$$ to the coffers.

Doesn't anyone remember the McDonald's Cups you would get for the original Dream Team? Those were coveted.

Shit I remember getting actual glass…uh glasses from mcds. 

43 minutes ago, definitely not derka said:

because it *is* in her purview to get people tuned in and rooting for team usa and women’s basketball. 

eta: especially when winning gold is a formality. if you want your sport to grow there’s no bigger stage then the olympics.

It’s not in your purview to decide what is in her purview. 

[DixonHur 11,342]

10 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

 Christian Laettner Disagrees. 

Forgot about him... lol.

He was probably Exhibit A in the meetings for the Women's National Team

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

9 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I'm saying that only matters in the US, and if you are a sports fan living in America and haven't heard of Caitlin Clark yet, you're not likely to care.

Womens' basketball is far more popular in other parts of the world than the US. That is why the WNBA league essentially is in those leagues offseason. The women in the US make more money playing in those leagues than they do the WNBA. USA Women's basketball should not give two shits about world popularity of the US women, they should be laser focused on building the brand in the US and bringing to the levels of those around the world. Not inviting those 3 even if they don't get much playing time to bring in money and eyes for USA women's basketball is insanely negligent. Those three are the future of your league and the catalyst to TV viewership, money, etc....this is basically like leaving Lebron and Melo off the 2004 Olympic team. Would you have left those two off the 2004 team for veterans? No, and you pretty much don't see that with the mens game.

Edited June 11 by BurntOrange&White

[Derka 6,281]

31 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Agree to disagree.  I don't think it's the committee's job to worry about TV ratings... that's the network's job.

The committee should focus on putting the best team on the floor.  As much as I think Caitlin is great for women's sports, and basketball in particular, I don't think she's one of the 12 best women's basketball players in the US yet.  

Check back in 4 years.

they’ve been trying (fruitlessly) to grow their sport for decades. when you get a once-in-a-lifetime chance to grow your sport by putting the *only* popular player in the game (among average sports fans) on the end of the bench for your showcase event then that’s what you do.

[DixonHur 11,342]

8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Womens' basketball is far more popular in other parts of the world than the US. That is why the WNBA league essentially is in those leagues offseason. The women in the US make more money playing in those leagues than they do the WNBA. USA Women's basketball should not give two shits about world popularity of the US women, they should be laser focused on building the brand in the US and bringing to the levels of those around the world. Not inviting those 3 even if they don't get much playing time to bring in money and eyes for USA women's basketball is insanely negligent. Those three are the future of your league and the catalyst to TV viewership, money, etc....this is basically like leaving Lebron and Melo off the 2004 Olympic team. Would you have left those two off the 2004 team for veterans? No, and you pretty much don't see that with the mens game.

Do you have data to back this up?  

If that were the case, why do the best players in the world come from, and play in the US?  

As I said before, I lived in Europe pre-Covid and never saw a single women's basketball game on TV.  Nor did I hear anyone talking about it, see anyone wearing women's basketball jerseys, see women playing basketball in the parks, etc.

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

13 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Do you have data to back this up?  

If that were the case, why do the best players in the world come from, and play in the US?  

As I said before, I lived in Europe pre-Covid and never saw a single women's basketball game on TV.  Nor did I hear anyone talking about it, see anyone wearing women's basketball jerseys, see women playing basketball in the parks, etc.

You didn't see any of that here either until CC/Reese brought eyes to the sport.....but overseas the women make 4-5x as much salary as they do here in the US. A lot of the foreign stars opt to stay in their country or to play in Europe or Russia because the money they get. There is only 19 foreign players on WNBA rosters meaning only 13% of WNBA rosters are foreign where as in the NBA roughly 28% of rosters are foreign. 


 

[DixonHur 11,342]

Here are a couple of data points I found, but they don't seem to support the theory that women's basketball is more popular outside the US.

The Overseas Overview – Women's Basketball News and Opinions (wbasketballblog.com)

Quote

Popularity

One of the enduring narratives about comparing the WNBA and overseas leagues is that the WNBA is unpopular while those leagues are extremely popular and successful in those countries. While there are many teams around the world with a large number of devoted fans, they are more in the region of comparable to popular WNBA teams. Many of the strongest teams in the world have attendances that would draw massive criticism if they were numbers for a WNBA team, even before taking into account the prices paid for those tickets. When it comes to revenue due to fan interest, the WNBA is in a much strong position due to its broadcast deals and ticket prices, especially at the more premium levels. There are some teams that have at times had expenses that exceed what are believed to be the ranges for a WNBA team, but the funds for those are generally provided with little to no discernible economic benefits to the

WNBL (Australia) attendance data

22/23 CYGNETT WNBL SEASON SEES IMPRESSIVE GROWTH IN FAN ATTENDANCE, CLUB MEMBERSHIP, AND DIGITAL PRESENCE | WNBL

[Pancho 44,861]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

Yes it is. Jesus fucking Christ stop being so dense. 

 

This isn’t being dense. The fans of Clark are going to tune in to see her ride the bench? I don’t think so. They tune in to see her actually play, which she wouldn’t (much)

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

Agree to disagree.  I don't think it's the committee's job to worry about TV ratings... that's the network's job.

This. This all day. It’s not in the job description of Team USA coaches and executives to “increase tv ratings” but it is in the job description to “win.” Increasing tv ratings is the job of NBC.

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

4 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

This isn’t being dense. The fans of Clark are going to tune in to see her ride the bench? I don’t think so. They tune in to see her actually play, which she wouldn’t (much)

This. This all day. It’s not in the job description of Team USA coaches and executives to “increase tv ratings” but it is in the job description to “win.” Increasing tv ratings is the job of NBC.

Yeah they should continue what they’re doing and consistently lose money while doing nothing with the gift they’ve been given. Excellent strategy for growth. While not maximizing their young superstars. That Lebron fellow should have never been on an Olympic team in 2004 because by golly he hasn’t earned it. 

Edited June 11 by BurntOrange&White

[immamac 42,874]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Yeah they should continue what they’re doing and consistently lose money while doing nothing with the gift they’ve been given. Excellent strategy for growth. 

Aja and all the other bitches are gonna make wnba awesome. Caitlyn Clark is just a fad. 

[LTtxfan 49,308]

So I saw more talk about Caitlin possibly being offered an alternate spot for Team USA.  Curious how that role works?? 

Does Caitlin:

• just practice with the team ?
• travel to the Olympics ?
• get issued an official jersey number ?
• participate in publicity ?

 

1. Since there is current concern about the possible distractions that Caitlin might cause as a member of Team USA, do her advisors/agent now suggest that she skip the Olympics altogether to avoid any additional criticism related to Team USA ?
2. By stepping aside, she would allow the spotlight to be focused on the 12 players on Team USA's roster right ?

 

Edit:  She's in the alternate pool

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/caitlin-clark-is-not-an-alternate-on-us-olympic-basketball-team-but-theres-a-reason/ar-BB1o1Bvc?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Edited June 11 by LTtxfan
typo

[DixonHur 11,342]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

You didn't see any of that here either until CC/Reese brought eyes to the sport.....but overseas the women make 4-5x as much salary as they do here in the US. A lot of the foreign stars opt to stay in their country or to play in Europe or Russia because the money they get. There is only 19 foreign players on WNBA rosters meaning only 13% of WNBA rosters are foreign where as in the NBA roughly 28% of rosters are foreign. 

Do you know why that is?

You mentioned Russia, so let's take a look.  The most successful women's basketball team in Russia is UMMC Ekaterinburg... they've won the championship 15 of the past 16 seasons.  Wanna know the max capacity at their arena?  5K.

They are owned by Russian billionaire Andrei Kozitsyn.  Do you think he gives more of a fuck about paying women 5x what they could earn in the US (IE $500k - $700k) or bragging to his comrades about winning 15 of 16 championships? 

Further, many of the teams are part of larger clubs that include men's basketball, hockey, soccer, etc.  Much like the relationship between the NBA and WNBA, or revenue vs. non-revenue sports in college, the money makers support the money losers.

[Wally Fairway 5,569]

3 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

So I saw more talk about Caitlin possibly being offered an alternate spot for Team USA.  Curious how that role works?? 

Does Caitlin:

• just practice with the team ?
• travel to the Olympics ?
• get issued an official jersey number ?
• participate in publicity ?

 

1. Since there is current concern about the possible distractions that Caitlin might cause as a member of Team USA, do her advisors/agent now suggest that she skip the Olympics altogether to avoid any additional criticism related to Team USA ?
2. By stepping aside, she would allow the spotlight to be focused on the 12 players on Team USA's roster right ?

She should do some personal appearances during the break in the WNBA schedule, and likely make more than her salary in the league. At this point there is no way that adding her to the team would be anything but a huge distraction. Long term this plays out well for her, by her not calling out the bias and saying all the right things to the media about supporting Team USA and the Olympics, and hoping to make the team in a future year. 

[d2o 1,602]

17 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Yeah they should continue what they’re doing and consistently lose money while doing nothing with the gift they’ve been given. Excellent strategy for growth. While not maximizing their young superstars. That Lebron fellow should have never been on an Olympic team in 2004 because by golly he hasn’t earned it. 

Considering they won the bronze and neither he, Wade or Melo were ready you're actually right

['stache 21,825]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

Agree to disagree.  I don't think it's the committee's job to worry about TV ratings... that's the network's job.

The committee should focus on putting the best team on the floor.  As much as I think Caitlin is great for women's sports, and basketball in particular, I don't think she's one of the 12 best women's basketball players in the US yet.  

Check back in 4 years.

I soft of agree with this, I said before the women's schedule is nuts. She went from NCAA title game, to draft, to WNBA preseason, to WNBA season, in like a 6 week timeframe. It's gonna take time to get used to the higher competition and playing with new teammates without a true offseason. She also was the No. 1 pick meaning the team that drafted her wasn't good last year. Shit takes time. I do get the argument about using her celebrity for ratings, etc., and if she was selected for that reason, I wouldn't have a problem with it, I just think she truly is not quite one of the top 12 yet. 

[d2o 1,602]

3 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

She should do some personal appearances during the break in the WNBA schedule, and likely make more than her salary in the league. At this point there is no way that adding her to the team would be anything but a huge distraction. Long term this plays out well for her, by her not calling out the bias and saying all the right things to the media about supporting Team USA and the Olympics, and hoping to make the team in a future year. 

Yeah, as I mentioned, her being a commentator would be great for her and everyone involved.

[d2o 1,602]

Just now, BeardIP said:

I think they would tune in because she's on the team and they, being rubes and not hardcore WNBA fans like you and others, would be surprised to see she isn't playing. The unintentional benefit is that the views would be for Team USA and these other deserving women.

Now, you might say-- but when the rubes and non-hardcores realize they are watching Team USA and CC rides the bench they get mad and vocal and harrass social media about it-- that is exactly the blowback and "distraction" that the powers that be had the foresight to guess would happen, and that is ultimately why she's been left off the team.

I don't agree with that line of thinking, but I can at least see it as an argument. Though nobody here has put forward that argument, as best as I can tell.

Thats is what was noted that the unnamed insider "sources" said and they were labeled as "hating petty bitches"

[DixonHur 11,342]

21 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

That Lebron fellow should have never been on an Olympic team in 2004 because by golly he hasn’t earned it. 

He went straight from HS to the NBA and earned Rookie of the Year averaging 20.9 points, 5.5 rebounds, and 5.9 assists per game.

Caitlin played at least 5 years in college and isn't averaging that in the WNBA.  Let her develop first.

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

Thats is what was noted that the unnamed insider "sources" said and they were labeled as "hating petty bitches"

And they are. If you’re going to make the decision solely on basketball merit that is okay. But you CANNOT let those quotes get out at all because it undermines the previous criteria. And putting sources in parentheses with regarding an article from a very respected and trustworthy reporter is laughable. 

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

He went straight from HS to the NBA and earned Rookie of the Year averaging 20.9 points, 5.5 rebounds, and 5.9 assists per game.

Caitlin played at least 5 years in college and isn't averaging that in the WNBA.  Let her develop first.

Lebron wasn’t developed his rookie year. He should have waited since he just came from HS. 

[LTtxfan 49,308]

13 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

She should do some personal appearances during the break in the WNBA schedule, and likely make more than her salary in the league. At this point there is no way that adding her to the team would be anything but a huge distraction. Long term this plays out well for her, by her not calling out the bias and saying all the right things to the media about supporting Team USA and the Olympics, and hoping to make the team in a future year. 

Yeah, I believe Caitlin taking the break and avoiding causing any more distractions for Team USA is the right path as well.   Thx

[DixonHur 11,342]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

And they are. If you’re going to make the decision solely on basketball merit that is okay. But you CANNOT let those quotes get out at all because it undermines the previous criteria. And putting sources in parentheses with regarding an article from a very respected and trustworthy reporter is laughable. 

Lebron wasn’t developed his rookie year. He should have waited since he just came from HS. 

He was #8 in the NBA for points scored during his rookie year.

Just stop before you embarrass yourself further.  

[LTtxfan 49,308]

13 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yeah, as I mentioned, her being a commentator would be great for her and everyone involved.

Not sure I agree.  Lots of potholes to dodge as a commentator, and Caitlin could still be viewed as a distraction for Team USA.

[DixonHur 11,342]

3 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

What is the equivalent of 20.9 points, 5.5 rebounds and 5.9 assists per game in the women's game and WNBA? Surely you aren't trying to compare it nominally. 

Exactly, her comp is even worse... except for rebounds since the shooting % is lower in the WNBA

[ChickenSandwich 9,843]

2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

He was #8 in the NBA for points scored during his rookie year.

Just stop before you embarrass yourself further.  

She is top 15 in points and 4th in assists and has played only 10 games or so. It is very comparable, and she is doing it in a league dominated by size and physicality, not finesse. 
 

Also, her teammates are…..not good

Edited June 11 by ChickenSandwich

[BurntOrange&White 39,934]

3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

He was #8 in the NBA for points scored during his rookie year.

Just stop before you embarrass yourself further.  

 

2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

She is top 15 in points and 4th in assists and has played only 10 games or so. It is very comparable, and she is doing it in a league dominated by size and physicality, not finesse. 
 

Also, her teammates are…..not good

 

[DixonHur 11,342]

35 minutes ago, immamac said:

Aja and all the other bitches are gonna make wnba awesome. Caitlyn Clark is just a fad. 

You're missing the point because you're conflating the US National Team with the WNBA.

[DixonHur 11,342]

5 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

She is top 15 in piints and 4th in assists and has played only 10 games or so. It is very comparable 

Not sure if joking... let's see where she stacks up after 79 games.  Also, there are only 144 players in the WNBA... the NBA has over 500.

Final note before I have to leave... LeBron was the #1 overall pick too, so let's not pretend the Cavs put a great team around LeBron during his first season. 

Edited June 11 by DixonHur

[Pancho 44,861]

7 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

She is top 15 in points and 4th in assists and has played only 10 games or so. It is very comparable, and she is doing it in a league dominated by size and physicality, not finesse. 
 

Also, her teammates are…..not good

 

She’s also 1st in turnovers and 23rd in efficiency. 

[YGIFS 19,452]

How many tens of millions of Swifties tuned into NFL games this past season to see Taylor in a box for 9 seconds?  Last I checked Taylor didn't even get in on an offensive series.  

I think there'd be enough people willing to watch Caitlin play 5 minutes per game over 6-8 games (plus interviews and post-game).  The USWNT is leaving so much money on the table for 2028, it's ridiculous.  Maybe she's not worthy of the court time in favor of some veterans, but she'd set up a corporate windfall in the next 4 years that the game would absolutely reach its apex in 2028 Los Angeles.   She'll still make that squad, but there's so much more power in getting it started as an 'already Olympic Gold Medalist."  But yeah, the U.S. Olympic teams have never been about money. 

[d2o 1,602]

33 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Not sure I agree.  Lots of potholes to dodge as a commentator, and Caitlin could still be viewed as a distraction for Team USA.

She can do just like Draymond did and Josh Hart is currently doing this yr (sans being an asshole) during the playoffs and how other players do every yr once they are eliminated.

If a media position isnt in her plans I get it but it could be another huge win for the cult of personality that follows her if she shows more of herself while talking about the players and the league.