Caitlin Clark …. Seriously

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

I think it's an absurd idea and would not increase interest, at all, might even cause some to lose interest. Wouldn't it also cause nearly everyone to start missing jumpshots? That's a lifetime of muscle memory that you'd have to retrain. Of course I also think it's stupid that girls exclusively play softball instead of baseball. 

Yes.   Its a dumb idea.  Further there are more and more girls coming up who can dunk.   It will never be as many as the guys but there will be more soon.   There is a  girl (Fran Belibi) at Stanford that can dunk with relative ease.

 

And another (Toby Fournier) that will start at Duke this yr who can two hand and reverse pretty easily

 

It takes time but the players are evolving.

 

Edited July 8 by d2o

[Derka 6173]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Dunks on an eight foot goal would look dumb as shit and would make it even less interesting. Just an absurdly stupid idea

a)quit getting all upset and replying as if it’s a serious proposition and not a statement on how shitty the current product is, and b)i don’t think you know what “interesting” means.

[d2o 1602]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Dunks on an eight foot goal would look dumb as shit and would make it even less interesting. Just an absurdly stupid idea. And like i said, would be impractical in any event because jump shots would start missing at a far higher clip making the product worse overall. The CC effect is huge, let it play out, see where it tops off, and then evaluate how to keep the momentum going. 

Further, do you do it just for the W?  Or does it go down to lower levels too?   Most HS dont have a way to lower their rims.   Its just dumb all around.

[Pato del Muerto 52488]

8 ft is a little dramatic. 9.5 would probably bring in-game dunking to quite a few wnba players. 

[Derka 6173]

6 minutes ago, d2o said:

Further, do you do it just for the W?  Or does it go down to lower levels too?   Most HS dont have a way to lower their rims.   Its just dumb all around.

how many times are y’all going to act like this is a serious proposal and not an indictment on how shitty the wnba product is? how many times can it be repeated that nobody is petitioning the league to lower the rims? the two points here, as has been repeated several times, are:

a)whenever someone has suggested that more people would be interested in the league if the rims were lowered and dunks were a factor (a point mainly brought up to wnba players by current nba players) the women have been appalled and insulted, which points towards their entitlement and unwillingness to listen to new ideas. and,

b)watching 10 destinee hooker level athletes play a game on 8 foot rims would absolutely be more entertaining and more popular than the wnba has ever been. 

Edited July 8 by Derka

['stache 21801]

14 minutes ago, Derka said:

how many times are y’all going to act like this is a serious proposal and not an indictment on how shitty the wnba product is? how many times can it be repeated that nobody is petitioning the league to lower the rims? the two points here, as has been repeated several times, are:

a)whenever someone has suggested that more people would be interested in the league if the rims were lowered and dunks were a factor (a point mainly brought up to wnba players by current nba players) the women have been appalled and insulted, which points towards their entitlement and unwillingness to listen to new ideas. and,

b)watching 10 destinee hooker level athletes play a game on 8 foot rims would absolutely be more entertaining and more popular than the wnba has ever been. 

It's not a serious proposal, but you are expressing an opinion that it would "absolutely be more entertaining and more popular" and I very strongly disagree. It would look stupid, would cause far more jump shots to be missed, and would make the product less interesting (defined by how many people care to watch which currently is at an all time high).

[TommysTinyTowels 785]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

8 ft is a little dramatic. 9.5 would probably bring in-game dunking to quite a few wnba players. 

It would. Smaller ball helps as well.

[Underdog 28601]

[ChickenSandwich 9830]

2 hours ago, Derka said:

how many times are y’all going to act like this is a serious proposal and not an indictment on how shitty the wnba product is? how many times can it be repeated that nobody is petitioning the league to lower the rims? the two points here, as has been repeated several times, are:

a)whenever someone has suggested that more people would be interested in the league if the rims were lowered and dunks were a factor (a point mainly brought up to wnba players by current nba players) the women have been appalled and insulted, which points towards their entitlement and unwillingness to listen to new ideas. and,

b)watching 10 destinee hooker level athletes play a game on 8 foot rims would absolutely be more entertaining and more popular than the wnba has ever been. 

Why can’t it be?  They already use a different ball. What traditions and legacies are they protecting? The WNBA will never have basketball as high a level as the top 5A HS boys teams (assumes both HS and WNBA improve), but they don’t have to. Embrace the differences and create your own sport in a way. 
 

Men and Women’s tennis are almost two different games due to the power differences, but the ladies are every bit as entertaining and sometimes more so because they can play a more ascetically pleasing game. More rallies, less aces etc. 

[Pato del Muerto 52488]

Or just start playing netball

[YGIFS 19450]

But wouldn't it be a weird adjustment if the WNBA played on lower goals when HS and College women's hoops play on 10' rims?  

My daughter's league is just getting serious enough where some of the girls are trying to make lay-ups (not successful, but takes a couple of years-NWWT).  But some of them are getting good on the 9' rims at gauging the angles.  Nobody's putting it away from downtown like Caitlin obviously, but some of the girls are starting to read the backboard and understand how much mustard on it and where to put to get it into the goal.  Not sure if it'll translate in a few years to 10' rims, but let's just be fine with the WNBA will play on 10' rims.  Caitlin is bringing attention to the sport.  And we're just gonna see a lot of in-game dunking.  That's fine.  My daughter watches it on TV because of the passing and the measured shooting.  Maybe one day, she can watch it for the teamwork lessons as well, but that seems to be a work in progress.  

We let her do google after dinner as we're literally over her shoulder with all the limits set and us watching every keystroke.  And she's looking up Simone Biles (the qualifiers had just happened-like two weeks ago) and then Caitlin Clark.  And the first page on both was just vitriolic bile about how Simone shouldn't be sent to Paris because she quit on her country back in Tokyo and how Caitlin isn't welcomed in Women's pro hoops.  And my wife changed the search words and found more pleasant stories.  And all I thought was don't worry about Simon's mental health or Caitlin's lack of dunking ability.  Worry that a huge portion of America are fucking assholes.  

[LTtxfan 49153]

Kinda funny that wnba left Caitlin out...

The wnba makes yet another epic blunder as they once again snub Caitlin Clark

[Deej 76758]

18 hours ago, Derka said:

hey continue to insist that they deserve more attention and that it is in fact the male sports fans and even male nba players who are to blame when they don’t sell tickets. it’s crazy.

There's more women than men in this country, yet it's the men's fault those women aren't even interested in the WNBA? 

[d2o 1602]

12 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Kinda funny that wnba left Caitlin out...

The wnba makes yet another epic blunder as they once again snub Caitlin Clark

CC was part of a docuseries for her last yr in CBB.   She may not have wanted to do that again.   Everything isnt a conspiracy against her.

[closetohumping 17438]

12 minutes ago, d2o said:

CC was part of a docuseries for her last yr in CBB.   She may not have wanted to do that again.   Everything isnt a conspiracy against her.

So Caitlin had a chance to elevate the league and declined?  Selfish

[HookEm 2465]

My lack of interest has less to do with them not being able to dunk and more to do with them not being able to catch a no-look pass. 

I also hate the way women shoot set shots. 

I would literally rather watch a JV high school game.

[Deej 76758]

27 minutes ago, HookEm said:

I also hate the way women shoot set shots. 

So much this.

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

 

Only blemish is the turnovers (5) and it was in a loss to a terrible Mystics squad.  Still, those numbers are nasty.  I think she was 50% from the field too.

On the same day, you get this shit.....

Now Angel has been fantastic the whole season but particularly these last two weeks, but this sits poorly with me.  Bleh.  And the fact the Atlanta defender helps her out?  Sorry, that's some crap.

[Derka 6173]

wnba should not be allowed to compare their records to the men’s game as they’re using that ridiculous 28.5” ball. 

[ChickenSandwich 9830]

3 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

Only blemish is the turnovers (5) and it was in a loss to a terrible Mystics squad.  Still, those numbers are nasty.  I think she was 50% from the field too.

 

On the Season

19th - Reb

15th -Blk

13th - Pts

12th - Stl

2nd - Ast

1st - TOs

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

8 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

On the Season

19th - Reb

15th -Blk

13th - Pts

12th - Stl

2nd - Ast

1st - TOs

More than that:

4th in 3PM

6th in FT% (Qualfying)

3rd in AST%

Her advanced stats are still trash because they were built for men and she turns the ball over way too much but having a fantastic season.  She gets her turnovers under control and shoots with better efficiency, she'll eventually be that top 10 player everyone wants her to be (coming seasons, not this year), but IMO she's definitely the ROY right this second but no one should dismiss Reese's season, it's good.  Not great, but pretty good and she's getting better too. 

 

 

[Sawbonz 27545]

On 7/9/2024 at 8:02 AM, LTtxfan said:

Kinda funny that wnba left Caitlin out...

The wnba makes yet another epic blunder as they once again snub Caitlin Clark

How did they get Dale Doback to narrate?

[ChickenSandwich 9830]

Social media employee should be fired tonight for including some of these “highlights” which are embarrassing. Seems intentional 

 

[ztejas 43418]

On 7/10/2024 at 10:47 PM, Patrick Bateman said:

More than that:

4th in 3PM

6th in FT% (Qualfying)

3rd in AST%

Her advanced stats are still trash because they were built for men and she turns the ball over way too much but having a fantastic season.  She gets her turnovers under control and shoots with better efficiency, she'll eventually be that top 10 player everyone wants her to be (coming seasons, not this year), but IMO she's definitely the ROY right this second but no one should dismiss Reese's season, it's good.  Not great, but pretty good and she's getting better too. 

 

 

No way anyone with a straight face would take 10 players over her right now. She has her team fucking rolling and is posting 20/10 nightly.

[Deej 76758]

It's like the WNBA is worried that if they get too popular, the NBA might stop giving them handouts.

[Pam Cummings 9639]

Fuck ROY nonsense she should be in the MVP discussion.

[TommysTinyTowels 785]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Fuck ROY nonsense she should be in the MVP discussion.

For bringing money and eyeballs to the league, that's not even a fair fight.

[Pam Cummings 9639]

1 minute ago, TommysTinyTowels said:

For bringing money and eyeballs to the league, that's not even a fair fight.

I don't think she's the MVP but just in that discussion. That team was abysmal last year. I know Boston has gotten a lot better too but still. She is the engine for that team.

[TommysTinyTowels 785]

21 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I don't think she's the MVP but just in that discussion. That team was abysmal last year. I know Boston has gotten a lot better too but still. She is the engine for that team.

100%

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Fuck ROY nonsense she should be in the MVP discussion.

 

Let's remember a few other stats as well for her:

She barely shoots 40%

34% from 3 -- that's average

She's 1st in the league in turnovers by a fucking mile.

She barely got over into 1 win share.  Her PER is 17.7 which is decent.

Here is the most likely MVP of the first half:

She averages 27.1 ppg, 11.8t rgp, 2.5 apg, with almost 2 steals a game and 3 blocks.

Her PER is 35.9 (so double Clark's);  her WS is 6.5 and her WS/48 is over .400!  Which no one on the men's side has ever come close to.  Her TS% is over .600.

So Clark's is in the discussion in the way Paolo Banchero was in the NBA's MVP.  Really talented player, huge future ahead of him, part of the MVP real discussion...... lol, you're not serious?

 

 

[Pam Cummings 9639]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

Let's remember a few other stats as well for her:

She barely shoots 40%

34% from 3 -- that's average

She's 1st in the league in turnovers by a fucking mile.

She barely got over into 1 win share.  Her PER is 17.7 which is decent.

Here is the most likely MVP of the first half:

She averages 27.1 ppg, 11.8t rgp, 2.5 apg, with almost 2 steals a game and 3 blocks.

Her PER is 35.9 (so double Clark's);  her WS is 6.5 and her WS/48 is over .400!  Which no one on the men's side has ever come close to.  Her TS% is over .600.

So Clark's is in the discussion in the way Paolo Banchero was in the NBA's MVP.  Really talented player, huge future ahead of him, part of the MVP real discussion...... lol, you're not serious?

 

 

I don't kill her for turnovers. She has the ball in her hands every possession. If you watch these games you could easily point out that she has 2-3 turnovers per game that should be easy buckets but are instead fumbled away by a teammate. And if you look at who leads the league in turnovers in the NBA youll see names like Luka and LeBron at the top of those lists. When you are a ball dominant player and the entire offense runs through you, you are going to have a higher turnover rate. To blindly cite her turnovers and paint it as if she is a turnover machine without providing context is a disingenuous thing to do.

 

Anyway, i didn't say she is the MVP....just in the discussion. She is playing heavy minutes and is the sole engine driving the offense of her team. Paolo Banchero? Lmao OK. I guess you missed Wemby getting MVP hype last season too.

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

26 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I don't kill her for turnovers. She has the ball in her hands every possession. If you watch these games you could easily point out that she has 2-3 turnovers per game that should be easy buckets but are instead fumbled away by a teammate. And if you look at who leads the league in turnovers in the NBA youll see names like Luka and LeBron at the top of those lists. When you are a ball dominant player and the entire offense runs through you, you are going to have a higher turnover rate. To blindly cite her turnovers and paint it as if she is a turnover machine without providing context is a disingenuous thing to do.

 

Anyway, i didn't say she is the MVP....just in the discussion. She is playing heavy minutes and is the sole engine driving the offense of her team. Paolo Banchero? Lmao OK. I guess you missed Wemby getting MVP hype last season too.

This is a silly way to look at things.  Luka led the league in turnovers.  He had 10 more than the next guy.  Clark is almost 50 ahead of her next closest competitor.  That'd be like wiping out the other top 10 in the NBA and starting at 11 for total turnovers after Clark.  Luka average .3 turnovers more than the next player.  Clark averages 1.7 more turnovers than the next player.  It's not that she's edged someone out.... She's basically averaging as many turnovers as the starting backcourt of most teammates by herself.  It's an issue.  Now, are there differing reasons why she averages so many turnovers?  Sure, some of it is her teammates have bad hands, but we've already discussed for everyone of her passes being fumbled away, she has sloppy entry passes into the post.  Poor angles out of the pick and roll and just some flat out bad decisions.  Luka averaged a lot of turnovers but was in the MVP discussion because he's an offensive force and shooting the ball, he's like 4 levels ahead of Clark.  He shot 38.2% from 3.  48.7% from the field overall and his PER and WS were outstanding, not just merely decent.  The turnover delta isn't the same thing.... Not even close.  It's almost equivalent to having Luka's turnovers and Derrick White's turnovers, every game.  

And Wemby got very little to no MVP hype.  It was for ROY, which he won and I think Clark right now is by a good margin the ROY thus far.  And Wemby was considered for DPOY, which he came in 2nd.  He wasn't in the serious MVP vote.  He literally got no votes for it and wasn't in the top 9.  No one thought he should get the MVP.  No one who was sensible about these things.

[Pam Cummings 9639]

49 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is a silly way to look at things.  Luka led the league in turnovers.  He had 10 more than the next guy.  Clark is almost 50 ahead of her next closest competitor.  That'd be like wiping out the other top 10 in the NBA and starting at 11 for total turnovers after Clark.  Luka average .3 turnovers more than the next player.  Clark averages 1.7 more turnovers than the next player.  It's not that she's edged someone out.... She's basically averaging as many turnovers as the starting backcourt of most teammates by herself.  It's an issue.  Now, are there differing reasons why she averages so many turnovers?  Sure, some of it is her teammates have bad hands, but we've already discussed for everyone of her passes being fumbled away, she has sloppy entry passes into the post.  Poor angles out of the pick and roll and just some flat out bad decisions.  Luka averaged a lot of turnovers but was in the MVP discussion because he's an offensive force and shooting the ball, he's like 4 levels ahead of Clark.  He shot 38.2% from 3.  48.7% from the field overall and his PER and WS were outstanding, not just merely decent.  The turnover delta isn't the same thing.... Not even close.  It's almost equivalent to having Luka's turnovers and Derrick White's turnovers, every game.  

And Wemby got very little to no MVP hype.  It was for ROY, which he won and I think Clark right now is by a good margin the ROY thus far.  And Wemby was considered for DPOY, which he came in 2nd.  He wasn't in the serious MVP vote.  He literally got no votes for it and wasn't in the top 9.  No one thought he should get the MVP.  No one who was sensible about these things.

Stats just aren't the whole story. You watch the Fever play and you watch her control the pace of the game. Period. She single handedly changes outcomes of games. She is one of the great outlet passers I have ever seen. Off of made baskets even. That's a great player to me and in this league I have her top 5.

 

I mean, fuck, no other player gets picked up full court every time. I'm watching these games and how the opponents are choosing to guard her should tell you what they think of her abilities.

Edited July 13 by Pam Cummings

[Derka 6173]

7 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

her WS/48 is over .400!  Which no one on the men's side has ever come close to. 

i agree with your post overall, but the reason for this is that the 10,000th best men’s player in the world is better at his respective sport than the 100th best women’s player is at hers. 

[Derka 6173]

 

[Derka 6173]

 

[Derka 6173]

she's going to have a completely different reception from caitlin clark when she enters the league. she’s into all of the same off-the-court stuff (fashion, politics, look-at-me culture) that caitlin clark has never been into. she could come into the league a better player than cc and they won’t go after her. this really is a culture war/petty feud that has little to do with basketball. 

[LTtxfan 49153]

[Deej 76758]

11 hours ago, Derka said:

 

Got to keep her from missing a bunny and getting her own rebound in that situation. 

[LTtxfan 49153]

 

Cheryl Reeve a little sensitive... 😋

Quote

MINNEAPOLIS -- Caitlin Clark's goals haven't changed: She wants to play in the Olympics one day.

Clark not only helped her squad stay in the WNBA playoff race with a strong finish in the Indiana Fever's 81-74 victory at Minnesota on Sunday, but did so against a Lynx team coached by the leader of the U.S. women's national team, Cheryl Reeve.

Clark and Aliyah Boston, who recorded her 20th career double-double, both thrived in front of Reeve, who leads an Olympic squad that will head to Paris in pursuit of a gold medal.

Clark, who was left off the national team's roster this year, said Sunday the Olympics are still her "dream."

"That's what you dream of as a young kid, getting to represent your country," said Clark, who finished with 17 points and 6 assists in her first WNBA game in Minneapolis. "And, obviously, me and [Boston] having the experience of playing for the junior national team, we know how fun that is and how cool that is to wear 'USA' across your chests."

That said, Clark acknowledged her priority is to continue to grow as a player.

"It gives you something to work for, something to dream for," she said. "Also, I feel like I can continue to get a lot better and for me, that's my main focus and that's what excites me the most going forward."

Prior to Sunday's game, however, Reeve seemingly had no interest in discussing Clark's status as a potential member of a future national team.

"Why the hell would I answer a national team question?" said Reeve, whose Lynx are now 2-2 in their last four games without MVP candidate Napheesa Collier, sidelined by a foot injury since July 4. "I'm wearing Lynx. And I'm the head coach of the national team but I'm not the chair of the committee. Anybody want to venture into anything else?"

The sellout crowd at Target Center was filled with fans who sported Iowa jerseys, T-shirts and other gear in support of former Hawkeyes star Clark. Those Iowa fans also flooded First Avenue's bars and restaurants hours before tipoff.

Asked before the game about the potential for a pro-Fever crowd, Reeve joked, "I don't give two s----," with a laugh before following up, "Not even one s---" when prompted by the reporter.

When the Fever sealed the win late, the building erupted, having made Target Center sound like an opposing arena for the Lynx all afternoon.

Down by seven points entering the fourth quarter, Clark helped the Fever orchestrate a 14-5 run that changed the game in Indiana's favor. She had 10 points and 2 assists in the fourth quarter.

Clark made some good and bad history in Minneapolis, where she said she has fond memories of taking trips with her dad in elementary school to see the Lynx play.

With six turnovers Sunday, Clark now has 139 this season, the most by a player in a single season in WNBA history, according to ESPN Stats & Information research. But she also passed Sue Bird for No. 2 in assists by a WNBA rookie (194).

Boston said the Fever -- now seventh in the WNBA's playoff seedings after going 4-2 in their past six games -- have found their chemistry at the right moment.

Like Clark, Boston said she also hopes to make the U.S. women's national team one day.

"That's definitely a goal of mine," Boston said. "People dream of being an Olympian and that's one of my mine. Coach Reeves is the head coach, and for me, I'll just continue to work hard and do what I need to do to get on that team."

 

 

[Derka 6173]

8 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

"Why the hell would I answer a national team question?" said Reeve, whose Lynx are now 2-2 in their last four games without MVP candidate Napheesa Collier, sidelined by a foot injury since July 4. "I'm wearing Lynx. And I'm the head coach of the national team but I'm not the chair of the committee. Anybody want to venture into anything else?"

these women are subpar athletes with very little basketball skill, but at least they’re all hypersensitive assholes.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

On 7/13/2024 at 10:09 AM, Patrick Bateman said:

34% from 3 -- that's average

That is what Reese shoots from the paint

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

On 7/13/2024 at 11:49 AM, Pam Cummings said:

Stats just aren't the whole story. You watch the Fever play and you watch her control the pace of the game. Period. She single handedly changes outcomes of games. She is one of the great outlet passers I have ever seen. Off of made baskets even. That's a great player to me and in this league I have her top 5.

 

I mean, fuck, no other player gets picked up full court every time. I'm watching these games and how the opponents are choosing to guard her should tell you what they think of her abilities.

Honestly there isn’t another player like her in the league. 

[closetohumping 17438]

56 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

That is what Reese shoots from the paint

Gotta grab them offensive rebounds 

[LTtxfan 49153]

14 hours ago, Deej said:

Got to keep her from missing a bunny and getting her own rebound in that situation. 

 

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

That is what Reese shoots from the paint    (34%)

 

20 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Gotta grab them offensive rebounds 

 

Reese pads her stats by missing bunnies.  Just like Moses Malone... 😋 

 

Edited July 15 by LTtxfan

[ChickenSandwich 9830]

CC passed Sue Bird for No. 2 in assists by a WNBA rookie (194). Think she needs 32 more assists in 15 games to break the record. Not sure if they count postseason. 
 

If she can average 8 asst per game she can break the all time single season mark. 

[closetohumping 17438]

Love the talking heads comparing this to magic vs bird

[idigTexas 2285]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

Love the talking heads comparing this to magic vs bird

Magic what versus what kind of bird?  

[Fud 9552]

The WNBA should take notes

 

 

[closetohumping 17438]

7 minutes ago, idigTexas said:

Magic what versus what kind of bird?  

Back in the old days there was a Magic Johnson vs Larry Bird rivalry.  Angle and CC are the new Macie/bird per some talking heads