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2023 Houston Rockets Offseason Thread - Time to Start Thinking About Winning Again

BigOrange1

By BigOrange1
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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14663

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6 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

To the htownhorn’s of the world who want to bring back Harden because there probably isn’t a better player to sign and they were a super star with reasons they could still produce in Houston; see: Jose Abreu.

Will signing Harden result in more wins? Yes. Will signing Harden result in playoffs? Maybe. Championship contention? No way. Improve the play and development of Green, Sengun, Smith, and 2023 pick? Probably not. Signing Harden is a lot more likely to blow up than turn out with a happy ending (for anyone but James in a dimly lit corner booth).

On the court Harden will easily speed up the development of Green, Smith, and Sengun. Their development is hampered because of Porter's shitty play at PG. The window for championships is not the next 3 years, it's the following years once the Suns, Lakers, Nuggets, and Warriors stars age out. So, getting those young guys playoff experience is much more valuable than letting Porter, Henderson, or one of the Thompson twins run the offense while the Rockets are a late round lottery team. If Kyrie was stable at all, I would go after him before Harden, but he's not. Harden may not bring it consistently in the playoffs, but the dude plays every game.

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Slacks

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6 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

On the court Harden will easily speed up the development of Green, Smith, and Sengun. Their development is hampered because of Porter's shitty play at PG. The window for championships is not the next 3 years, it's the following years once the Suns, Lakers, Nuggets, and Warriors stars age out. So, getting those young guys playoff experience is much more valuable than letting Porter, Henderson, or one of the Thompson twins run the offense while the Rockets are a late round lottery team. If Kyrie was stable at all, I would go after him before Harden, but he's not. Harden may not bring it consistently in the playoffs, but the dude plays every game.

Except the last one... But I'll take it. 

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18547

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Great idea to bring back the no defense playing vet who quit his way out of town and drove the franchise’s culture around his partying. Should be a wonderful influence on the younger guys, notwithstanding his rapidly declining and aging heliocentric game. Sounds like a championship recipe to me. 

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HtownHorn

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10 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Great idea to bring back the no defense playing vet who quit his way out of town and drove the franchise’s culture around his partying. Should be a wonderful influence on the younger guys, notwithstanding his rapidly declining and aging heliocentric game. Sounds like a championship recipe to me. 

Lulz, thinking anyone added this offseason is going to bring a championship. The Rockets should not add any vets and continue to lose a shit ton of games without control of their draft picks. Yep, this is the way.

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18547

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1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Lulz, thinking anyone added this offseason is going to bring a championship. The Rockets should not add any vets and continue to lose a shit ton of games without control of their draft picks. Yep, this is the way.

Of course, you're not winning a championship this year. I was talking about laying the foundation to win one in the future. That's the goal, right? If they are going to add vets, they need to be complete pros who can mentor the younger guys, be leaders, and instill culture. That's how you build the foundation for a championship, not by bringing in a guy that mails it in on defense and hijacks the team flight to Vegas.

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BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6432

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19 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

On the court Harden will easily speed up the development of Green, Smith, and Sengun. Their development is hampered because of Porter's shitty play at PG. The window for championships is not the next 3 years, it's the following years once the Suns, Lakers, Nuggets, and Warriors stars age out. So, getting those young guys playoff experience is much more valuable than letting Porter, Henderson, or one of the Thompson twins run the offense while the Rockets are a late round lottery team. If Kyrie was stable at all, I would go after him before Harden, but he's not. Harden may not bring it consistently in the playoffs, but the dude plays every game.

this is my take on it as well.  the rockets aren't winning a championship anytime soon.  but getting the young guys some minutes in meaningful games could help lead to that down the line.  jalen green and alperen sengun will be 21 on opening night next season.  jabari smith will be 20.  whoever they pick in june will be 19 or 20.  that group is not 3 or 4 years away from competing for championships, they're 6 or 7 years away IF they're even good enough.  there is no longer any incentive to be terrible.  so fuck it, bring in a guy who will help you win some games and compete for the playoffs in the next few years.  that beats the alternative of going 25-57 next year and sending the #8 pick to okc.  

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BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6432

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also - it's lottery day!  could end up being one of the most important days in franchise history should they get the #1 pick.

imo - 5 or 6 are catastrophic outcomes.  4 is only slightly better.  2 or 3 are ok, but given what's available at #1 will still be disappointing.  

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19063

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On 5/14/2023 at 11:42 PM, Fastbreak said:

Harden went 12-56 in the 4 losses.

That is averaging 3-14 for the math challenged.

Signing him to a max would be crazy.

He also single handedly won them 2 games and was pretty instrumental in controlling the pace and flow of Game 5 that they won.  Harden isn't supposed to win them series- that's the MVP's job. Harden isn't capable of being that guy anymore physically, even if he never was mentally.

You don't sign Harden b/c you think he's winning you a title as the best player on the team- you sign him b/c you need to be as good as possible this year- he's the best player on the market- he's basically the only good player that would be willing to sign here- and his game should age pretty decently with spot up shooting and controlling the pace and flow of the game. In 3 or 4 years maybe he is an awesome 18 minute a game point guard who can turn a second unit into something really good or have an occasional turn back the clock game and carry you. But, the key is development of the guys they already drafted. Harden is a place holder to win games that you want to win now and get those guys development winning.

If you have a better idea I'd be all ears. I don't see it out there. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19063

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40 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

this is my take on it as well.  the rockets aren't winning a championship anytime soon.  but getting the young guys some minutes in meaningful games could help lead to that down the line.  jalen green and alperen sengun will be 21 on opening night next season.  jabari smith will be 20.  whoever they pick in june will be 19 or 20.  that group is not 3 or 4 years away from competing for championships, they're 6 or 7 years away IF they're even good enough.  there is no longer any incentive to be terrible.  so fuck it, bring in a guy who will help you win some games and compete for the playoffs in the next few years.  that beats the alternative of going 25-57 next year and sending the #8 pick to okc.  

This is so blindingly obvious and self evident that it stumps me that everyone can't see this.  There is no championship window this offseason. There is every reason to make the playoffs. Harden is the best way to make the playoffs that the Rockets can get. He only costs money. Nobody worth a shit wants to take their money. Give it to him- play games that matter and develop the other guys. It's half way to a championship if they can do that. Harden won't be on any title team b/c it's far enough in the future that anyone signing now is likely to be aged out.  You try to win it all in 2028. Between here and there you make any moves that don't ruin tomorrow while helping you today. Spending just money on Harden does that. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14663

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1 hour ago, TexTexTex said:

I've read reports that Harden has really changed his ways and attitude and only wants to come back to Houston because he thinks they're championship ready

We aren't, but Harden only would likely get us to the play-in games. Add another vet or two with him to go with the core of Green, Sengun, Smith, Eason, Garuba, Christopher, and our 2 picks this year.

Edited by HtownHorn
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19063

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Also people seem to miss out on the fact that these guys are human beings with thoughts and minds of their own. 
For all the “harden can’t be around to mentor crowd” maybe they see him and decide that’s not what they want to do. Maybe seeing him not in awesome shape or staying out late and getting hammered for it acts as a bit of a cautionary tale. Apparently there was rumor that the slap ass way the last staff handled things led to the guys asking for more structure. 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49141

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4 hours ago, BigOrange1 said:

also - it's lottery day!    imo - 5 or 6 are catastrophic outcomes.  4 is only slightly better.  2 or 3 are ok, but given what's available at #1 will still be disappointing.  

If Rockets don't get #1, what players might be best prospects/fits for Rockets at #2 or #3. 

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HtownHorn

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10 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

If Rockets don't get #1, what players might be best prospects/fits for Rockets at #2 or #3. 

Miller and Walker. I wouldn't touch any of the OTE or GLeague guys because none of them can shoot worth a fucking shit, and we already have enough guards and wings that need to learn how to shoot.

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LTtxfan

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Thanks  @HtownHorn

Walker was #9 on below list back in February.  Has Miller been able to clear all the concerns related to "supplying a gun used in a murder"??

 

Thx @Mitch Cumsteen

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-victor-wembanyama-scoot-henderson-brandon-miller-thompson-twins-jarace-walker-keyonte-george/

Here's what the current consensus lottery looks like:

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Amen Thompson
4. Brandon Miller
5. Ausar Thompson
6. Nick Smith
7. Cameron Whitmore
8. Anthony Black
9. Jarace Walker
10. Keyonte George
11. Cason Wallace
12. Gradey Dick
13. Jett Howard
14. GG Jackson

Edited by LTtxfan
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A-Tex Devil

A-Tex Devil 2446

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I struggle with how I feel about Green on this team as a long term thing.  He has potential to be Booker, from what people tell me.  But my gut tells me he is really a worse version of Bradley Beal.   If the latter is right can we sell high now if we don’t get Wemby?

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Rockethorn1978

Rockethorn1978 6072

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We can at worse be no lower than 3. Miller or Henderson will be the pick. I’m not sure they will go with Walker at 3 but it wouldn’t surprise me if we took a swing at him at 3 and passed up scoot.

And by at worse I mean for the franchise to not get a shitty pick. I’m well aware we could pick lower than 3. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14663

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14 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

We can at worse be no lower than 3. Miller or Henderson will be the pick. I’m not sure they will go with Walker at 3 but it wouldn’t surprise me if we took a swing at him at 3 and passed up scoot.

And by at worse I mean for the franchise to not get a shitty pick. I’m well aware we could pick lower than 3. 

Walker is looking like 5th now in most drafts. That's likely his ceiling. If  we don't get 1 or 2, then I would want 5, because I want Henderson and the Thompson twins to be gone.

 

We also want Dallas to get 11 so they have to give it to the Knicks just because it would be fucking hilarious that Cuban got fined $750K and didn't get his pick.

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