2023 Houston Rockets Offseason Thread - Time to Start Thinking About Winning Again

[BigOrange1 6437]

certainly doesn't appear like miami is taking whitmore.  we could be just one spot away from him falling to #20.

[HtownHorn 14683]

If Cam Whitmore somehow falls to 20, that would be incredible.

[HtownHorn 14683]

Total Miami pick.

[BigOrange1 6437]

ok motherfuckers, take cam whitmore.

[HtownHorn 14683]

Holy shit. Whitmore fell to 20. C'mon Rockets complete the starting 5 with your SF.

Thompson, Green, Whitmore, Smith, and Sengun might be one of the most athletic starting 5's in basketball.

[TonyTexas 10515]

It’s Cam

 

[runthebone 7982]

No brainer value pick  

 

Good

[BigOrange1 6437]

awesome!

[HtownHorn 14683]

fuck yes.

[Wulaw Horn 19070]

Bilas had him #1 on his board at #3. He went 20. That’s nuts. 

[Macklemore 2872]

Yes we got Cam!! We’ll look back at 2023 draft as the lynchpin for winning a championship in 2027. Ime is going to have these 2 change the defensive profile of this team into one of the best in the league.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Macklemore

[tx 3 putt 76958]

Great pick Up 

[Ignatius 4017]

Would not have thought we’d end up with both the guys, hell of a night…

[Wulaw Horn 19070]

In this tank we’ve missed out on the absolute stars but nailed the mid range and lower with Sengun, Whitmore and Eason imo. 

[BigOrange1 6437]

in the last three drafts the rockets have added 9 first rounders:

jalen green, alperen sengun, usman garuba, josh christopher, jabari smith, tari eason, tyty washington, amen thompson, cam whitmore

add a couple of vets and let's start developing this thing.

[HtownHorn 14683]

He's going to be a better player than Thompson, but you can't complain getting two NBA athletes at needed positions. Makes trading Martin easier, considering he's due for a contract extension.

[Planet Houston 4930]

Man. Can’t believe Cam fell in our lap. Feels good. 

[HtownHorn 14683]

5 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

in the last three drafts the rockets have added 9 first rounders:

jalen green, alperen sengun, usman garuba, josh christopher, jabari smith, tari eason, tyty washington, amen thompson, cam whitmore

add a couple of vets and let's start developing this thing.

I get that we need to spend cap dollars, but really if Ime's coaching can develop those guys, I'm fine with that rotation next year. They should be entertaining as hell, Really, they only need a backup C that can defend the rim and be a rim-runner. Ideally, Capella would be that guy.

Thompson, Washington

Green, Christopher

Whimore, Eason

Smith, Garuba

Sengun

That is a hell of developmental rotation.

 

Porter, Tate, and Martin can all get the fuck out.

Edited June 23, 2023 by HtownHorn

[Planet Houston 4930]

Also can’t believe he’s only 18 and the youngest player in the draft. Obviously need some veteran leadership through a trade or two, but the young athletic core is insane. 

[Planet Houston 4930]

Also, sorry for floating something that surely has been discussed - I don’t tune into this thread very much - but I hope we make a real run at FVV. 

[BigOrange1 6437]

3 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

I get that we need to spend cap dollars, but really if Ime's coaching can develop those guys, I'm fine with that rotation next year. They should be entertaining as hell, Really, they only need a backup C that can defend the rim and be a rim-runner. Ideally, Capella would be that guy.

Thompson, Washington

Green, Christopher

Whimore, Eason

Smith, Garuba

Sengun

That is a hell of developmental rotation.

 

Porter, Tate, and Martin can all get the fuck out.

i still want a veteran pg to run the show for a couple of years.  i feel like thompson is gonna take some time and i want jalen and jabari to play with a real pg.  fred van vleet on a 2-3 year deal would be great by me.

[Wulaw Horn 19070]

1 minute ago, Planet Houston said:

Also, sorry for floating something that surely has been discussed - I don’t tune into this thread very much - but I hope we make a real run at FVV. 

I mean, I’d rather we not. 
I still want us to make a run at Zion.  I guess they are holding onto him in NO?  

[Macklemore 2872]

Amen or Cam?

[BigOrange1 6437]

brooklyn taking two guys who won't contribute next year is nice since we want them to be terrible. 

[HtownHorn 14683]

2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I mean, I’d rather we not. 
I still want us to make a run at Zion.  I guess they are holding onto him in NO?  

He's the next DeShaun Watson, if that stripper has the goods.

[HtownHorn 14683]

If we want a veteran PG, I like Conley or Rubio. Conley has 1 year left and Rubio 2. I just can't see giving FVV $40M for any stretch of years.

Also, I wouldn't be against a reunion with Schorder.

Edited June 23, 2023 by HtownHorn

[TonyTexas 10515]

I don’t know how it will all work together but they will have an incredibly young, athletic roster. 

[Wulaw Horn 19070]

Harden and Lopez make this a 50 win team next year. We have enough cap to get them if we get rid of all our guys not in the 9 mentioned by @BigOrange1?  

[runthebone 7982]

Cam's scouting report is tunnel vision, questionable basketball IQ...I just hope he is comfortable fitting in on the Rockets.

[Planet Houston 4930]

I thought Harden to Philly was in the bag. I’d still rather have Van Vleet, as he seems to be the no-nonsense leader that would do well to help instill Udoka’s (hopefully) harder hand than Silas had. 

[Fastbreak 3985]

There are people who are pretty sharp saying Amen is already a top 5 athlete in the league. If he has any kind of work ethic then he could be a great pick. Hopefully Cam takes this as a wake up call.

In 5 years the Rockets could easily have the 1 or 2 rated draft for this class (#2 if wemby develops is still great).

[Murfdogg21 4412]

47 minutes ago, runthebone said:

Cam's scouting report is tunnel vision, questionable basketball IQ...I just hope he is comfortable fitting in on the Rockets.

 

[BigOrange1 6437]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Harden and Lopez make this a 50 win team next year. We have enough cap to get them if we get rid of all our guys not in the 9 mentioned by @BigOrange1?  

definitely have the money, but recently it sounds like harden probably isn't coming back.

[Wulaw Horn 19070]

4 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

definitely have the money, but recently it sounds like harden probably isn't coming back.

Is that because we aren’t offering him the full contract or because he doesn’t want to come I wonder?  
because those 9 guys you mentioned should be the only guys on our roster right now, so you might as well give Harden the entire max. He’s the best FA in the market right now and you have to spend the money somewhere. Rather on him than  Tate and Porter and Martin. 

[ChickenSandwich 9836]

[tx 3 putt 76958]

1 hour ago, runthebone said:

Cam's scouting report is tunnel vision, questionable basketball IQ...I just hope he is comfortable fitting in on the Rockets.

[Wulaw Horn 19070]

Fine. Y’all have talked me into FVV. Bring in him and Seth Curry and Lopez. And get rid of anyone else not on a rookie contract. 

[ChickenSandwich 9836]

FVV +
Capela

[BigOrange1 6437]

what would we have to give up to get capela back?  cause i'm interested in that so long as the price is right.

[Rockethorn1978 6078]

I just don’t want to see the front office waste our cap space on a guy that we’re locked into for 4/5 years that doesn’t really move the needle. If they can’t find a star to come I’d seriously consider signing a couple of vets to one year deals and playing the season with young guys and some vets to help them grow 

[LCHorn 2620]

Why would we want Capela taking minutes from Smith and Sengun?  It doesn’t look like either of them will duplicate what Capela does but I don’t think he’s a good fit otherwise. 

[BigOrange1 6437]

capela really wouldn't be taking minutes from smith as he is a pure 5.  sengun can't play 48 minutes and center is the one spot on the roster where there is no depth whatsoever.  

[runthebone 7982]

Capela feels like he's 40, but he's only 29.  FT% up to 60% last year!

[billfromlaketravis 11481]

Feels like the team is a lot of good young pieces, but no stars. Need a couple to emerge. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by billfromlaketravis

[Murfdogg21 4412]

4 hours ago, runthebone said:

Capela feels like he's 40, but he's only 29.  FT% up to 60% last year!

Incredible. It seems like Capela was playing in Houston back with McGrady. 

[A-Tex Devil 2446]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Feels like the team is a lot of good young pieces, but no stars. Need a couple to emerge. 

Well, Booker and Fox were bagged on as good stats bad team guys until they weren’t.  I am not saying Green is either, but he has that potential.  Or he is a worse Bradley Beal or better Jerami Grant.  We just don’t know yet.  (Ignore positions….  You get my point).  
 

I like adding Harden if it’s 3 years or less which he probably won’t do, and Lopez, too.  I am meh on FVV but I am sure he’d add value.  

Thoughts on Middleton? Or I guess he is redundant.  

All that said, with the way the draft came out for us and the Brooklyn picks, we ought to also be in the business of any star demanding a trade in the next year or so with no one (yet) being untouchable.   

[Wulaw Horn 19070]

14 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Well, Booker and Fox were bagged on as good stats bad team guys until they weren’t.  I am not saying Green is either, but he has that potential.  Or he is a worse Bradley Beal or better Jerami Grant.  We just don’t know yet.  (Ignore positions….  You get my point).  
 

I like adding Harden if it’s 3 years or less which he probably won’t do, and Lopez, too.  I am meh on FVV but I am sure he’d add value.  

Thoughts on Middleton? Or I guess he is redundant.  

All that said, with the way the draft came out for us and the Brooklyn picks, we ought to also be in the business of any star demanding a trade in the next year or so with no one (yet) being untouchable.   

Good post. 
You do 4 to get a harden (imo) because what’s your alternative?  You don’t have a place where many stars want to be, and he’s clearly the best guy up in FA, and he makes you much better. Eventually, that 4th year becomes an expiring and those have value in the last year- as we saw with Westbrook for the lakers getting dealt off pieces that they used to retool and thrive. 
hard no on Middleton. He’s a complimentary piece that’s going to get paid like a star and we don’t have the code for him to add value to, plus he’s a bit long in the tooth. 2 years from now if the pieces develop?  Sure.  But not now.  
we need the right disgruntled stat. 

zion makes sense to me because he could be the best player on a title team (looking sadly more likely he will bust) 

no thanks to Dame (too small- shitty defense- won’t put us over the top) 

If LBJ gets too old/wants out I could see Davis making a lot of sense. Something like Smith and another young guy plus all our draft picks?   The Lakers figure retooling makes sense and decide to move on with the rest of our Brooklyn picks and 28, 30 and some swaps. That would be next year, obviously. 

Ja would be one more gun charge away from me “accidentally” butt dialing Memphis and concern rolling them/asking them how it’s going and then listening to see if there’s an opportunity. 

I might call Minn and ask about Gobert. 

I might call Clippers on Paul George and/or Kawal Leonard. 

basically the point is if you want to win a title you need a top 5 player and likely another top 10-15 guy to go along with that. You get those guys from winning the draft (we didn’t do that but it was worth trying) being a FA destination (we aren’t) or buying low because they are in some way a distressed asset and the team wants out on them. 
Gobert sort of sucks but he could be the energies fulcrum of a decent defense (with Smith) and the Rockets have enough offense punch/scoring. 
 

it’s really really really hard to win a title in the NBA without that transcendent player and the Rockets don’t have them right now. Sucks to suck on the lotto. 
Boy I am jealous of SA and OKC right now. 

[HtownHorn 14683]

8 hours ago, BigOrange1 said:

what would we have to give up to get capela back?  cause i'm interested in that so long as the price is right.

Hawks are in cap hell, they may be looking to shed contracts at bargain prices.

[BigOrange1 6437]

49 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Good post. 
You do 4 to get a harden (imo) because what’s your alternative?  You don’t have a place where many stars want to be, and he’s clearly the best guy up in FA, and he makes you much better. Eventually, that 4th year becomes an expiring and those have value in the last year- as we saw with Westbrook for the lakers getting dealt off pieces that they used to retool and thrive. 
hard no on Middleton. He’s a complimentary piece that’s going to get paid like a star and we don’t have the code for him to add value to, plus he’s a bit long in the tooth. 2 years from now if the pieces develop?  Sure.  But not now.  
we need the right disgruntled stat. 

zion makes sense to me because he could be the best player on a title team (looking sadly more likely he will bust) 

no thanks to Dame (too small- shitty defense- won’t put us over the top) 

If LBJ gets too old/wants out I could see Davis making a lot of sense. Something like Smith and another young guy plus all our draft picks?   The Lakers figure retooling makes sense and decide to move on with the rest of our Brooklyn picks and 28, 30 and some swaps. That would be next year, obviously. 

Ja would be one more gun charge away from me “accidentally” butt dialing Memphis and concern rolling them/asking them how it’s going and then listening to see if there’s an opportunity. 

I might call Minn and ask about Gobert. 

I might call Clippers on Paul George and/or Kawal Leonard. 

basically the point is if you want to win a title you need a top 5 player and likely another top 10-15 guy to go along with that. You get those guys from winning the draft (we didn’t do that but it was worth trying) being a FA destination (we aren’t) or buying low because they are in some way a distressed asset and the team wants out on them. 
Gobert sort of sucks but he could be the energies fulcrum of a decent defense (with Smith) and the Rockets have enough offense punch/scoring. 
 

it’s really really really hard to win a title in the NBA without that transcendent player and the Rockets don’t have them right now. Sucks to suck on the lotto. 
Boy I am jealous of SA and OKC right now. 

i think your timeline is off.  i agree with you about harden but that's because i think he's a good bridge guy and these young guys need someone who can run an offense.  but as to the rest of the guys you mentioned (outside of zion and ja), you're thinking too old in terms of the guys you want to bring in.

i also disagree re: winning the draft.  we obviously didn't get the big prize in wemby, but i'm not ready to say that one of the three top-4 picks on the roster won't turn out to be a star.  it just is gonna take some time (which goes back to my point about the timeline).

i also disagree re: free agency.  sure, we aren't a destination right now, but if jalen green turns out to be devin booker i don't think we'll have trouble attracting good free agents.  most of the players in the league love houston.

38 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Hawks are in cap hell, they may be looking to shed contracts at bargain prices.

if that's the case, let's send them tate and a couple of 2nds and call it a deal.

[Wulaw Horn 19070]

1 hour ago, BigOrange1 said:

i think your timeline is off.  i agree with you about harden but that's because i think he's a good bridge guy and these young guys need someone who can run an offense.  but as to the rest of the guys you mentioned (outside of zion and ja), you're thinking too old in terms of the guys you want to bring in.

i also disagree re: winning the draft.  we obviously didn't get the big prize in wemby, but i'm not ready to say that one of the three top-4 picks on the roster won't turn out to be a star.  it just is gonna take some time (which goes back to my point about the timeline).

i also disagree re: free agency.  sure, we aren't a destination right now, but if jalen green turns out to be devin booker i don't think we'll have trouble attracting good free agents.  most of the players in the league love houston.

if that's the case, let's send them tate and a couple of 2nds and call it a deal.

I don't think we really disagree. I think Houston is fine as a FA destination, but not for the absolute apex predator. Lets just say in Giannis is on the market I'd expect him to go 5-8 places before Houston.  That's what I mean. If it's a Middleton on the market?  Sure.  That dude will sign with Houston if the money is right- we aren't Cleveland or Minnesota or Charlotte or something like that.  

And yeah- Harden to me is a bridge guy that gets you winning 50 games, in the playoffs, and then you flip his contract in year 4 for a couple pieces that will hopefully have you fully engaged in a win a title moment. That's my timeline for trying to win a title- 4 years.  Is yours significantly different.  

I think if you got Kawai and George you could be in the win a title now mode (if they are healthy). That's a low probability bet, but that's sort of my point- winning a title is a low probability bet by its nature (1/30 chance).  

Maybe one of the guys will be a star.  My definition of a star that matters isn't- hey- this guy made 4 all star games though, it's "hey this guy as a first team/2nd team all NBA guy for 1/2 a decade and if things break right you can win a title."

In the last 15 years this is the list of guys in that stratosphere:

Lebron, KD, Steph, Russ, Leonard, Joker, Luka, CP3, Harden, Blake, Embiid, George Dame, Giannis, Howard, Tatum

Dame, Blake and George is mostly 3rd teams (but they had more than 5 each) and Luka/Tatum is a bit early on the 1/2 a decade but I think everyone agrees that they will get there.

 

Titles:  Lebron-4, Steph- 4, KD- 2, Russ-0 (but did play for one in a finals), Leonard- 1, Joker- 1, Luka 0- but did make a couple conference finals, CP3- 0 (clearly second best team two years), Harden 0- (played for one, an injury away from another).  Giannis- 1, Embiid- 0 (eastern semis being furthest advancement is kind of gross.  Every team had one of those guys I mentioned on it (at least) going all the way back to 2011 Dallas. Obviously, Dirk was one of those guys in his prime.

 

I don't see anyone on the Rockets current roster at that level of star wattage right now, but there are only 10 or 15 guys at a time that fit those molds that are active at any time, and that's even too big a number when you consider that some of them are washed (LBJ, Russ, CP3) and some of them are on the come and not there yet (Tatum, Luka etc).  

Maybe I'm wrong and one of the guys on the current roster turns into that.  I don't see it. But I could be surprised.