2023 Houston Rockets Offseason Thread - Time to Start Thinking About Winning Again

[A-Tex Devil 2465]

So after Brooks, the Aussie and these trades what do we have left to spend?  One of you cap nerds is keeping track. 
 

Generally speaking, the floor and ceiling for this team are about as wide as I have ever seen.  Outside of injuries, we aren’t likely doing better than Denver, LAL, Phoenix, GS and probably Sac.   But we could be anywhere from 5th to second to last in conference if things go really badly.  If we have the right dudes and coach, no reason we can’t pull something akin to Sactown of last year or Memphis 2 years ago kind of leap. 

[Planet Houston 4943]

I don’t pretend to be an expert at the NBA and I’ve said before I was all for signing FVV - great deal with the 3rd year being a team option imo - but you can’t tell me the rest of these moves were the best Stone could have done. At least we will be somewhat competitive but a lot of today has me scratching my head. 

[TonyTexas 10572]

 

 

[Macklemore 2881]

2 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

 

 

Best move after getting FVV

[Irieguy 1059]

1 hour ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

I feel like it could or implode. It’s a weird combo. But has potential at the same time of guys develop the way we hope. 
 

sengun is my hope he turns into another jokic 

I assume you mean Miami Heat Nikola Jokic. 👍

Edited July 2, 2023 by Irieguy

[Slacks 6921]

22 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

This is why we had to overpay.

 

Like I said, it was a good agreement for both sides. If the Rockets are 41-41, Fertitta will recoup his money in 2 years (a d why do we even care?) They don't even have to make the playoffs next year (they should). 

Amen gets to be 7th man at either guard spot and learn the NBA. KPJ learns what PG is and either decides to play it or play 6th man at the SG. He and Amen can play AAU ball for another year. 

FVV should be the best 'overpaid' Rocket in a long time. He's an all star with a ring, and not washed up old. 

I think Ime is going to see who buys in to playing defense. Those who don't will be traded. Statistically, Brooks is the best wing defender in the league. FVV plays defense. Amen and Smith play defense. . Sengun puts in the effort to play defense. Green and KPJ better get their shit together. 

[HtownHorn 14935]

This guy gets it.

 

Anyone thinking the Rockets are competing for a title are fucking morons.

[HtownHorn 14935]

3 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

So after Brooks, the Aussie and these trades what do we have left to spend?  One of you cap nerds is keeping track. 
 

Generally speaking, the floor and ceiling for this team are about as wide as I have ever seen.  Outside of injuries, we aren’t likely doing better than Denver, LAL, Phoenix, GS and probably Sac.   But we could be anywhere from 5th to second to last in conference if things go really badly.  If we have the right dudes and coach, no reason we can’t pull something akin to Sactown of last year or Memphis 2 years ago kind of leap. 

With the SnT that includes Atlanta, Los Angeles, and Memphis the Rockets likely have around $12M in cap space.

Edited July 2, 2023 by HtownHorn

[Planet Houston 4943]

 

[HtownHorn 14935]

 

[Slacks 6921]

2 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

This guy gets it.

 

Anyone thinking the Rockets are competing for a title are fucking morons.

When that SI Astros cover came out, they were losing 100 games a year. I bought a sweet ass Astros Starter jacket for $100 new in 2017. It's ok to think championship. 

The Rockets have the players to get well. They're still early in the rebuild process. 

[HtownHorn 14935]

9 minutes ago, Slacks said:

When that SI Astros cover came out, they were losing 100 games a year. I bought a sweet ass Astros Starter jacket for $100 new in 2017. It's ok to think championship. 

The Rockets have the players to get well. They're still early in the rebuild process. 

Sure that may be the attainable goal in a few seasons, but the young core has had 1-2 years of absolutely no development. The goal of this off-season was not to compete for a championship but to not be the worst team in the NBA.

Edited July 2, 2023 by HtownHorn

[BigOrange1 6558]

apparently if they do everything just right (i'm not going to pretend to understand it), they can still have about $15 million in cap room.  grant williams would be an interesting option with that money.

[Rockethorn1978 6153]

So no patty mills? 

[LebongJames 1827]

If you look around the NBA, the Rockets were the only team to bring in significant free agents. There were trades for Beal, Porzingis and CP3 but no team signed a top tier free agent. Dame and Harden probably get traded too.
 

But the fact is Houston had to sign free agents and I think they got a lot better. We should see our 3 top draft picks develop with better players. I’m more than ok with trading away the back of the bench. The point was to get as many guys and see who turned out. You have 6 young guys to build around. If Green and Sengun take the next steps and if Smith has a second year jump this team is going to be a lot better than most people think. You still have Eason, Amen and Whitmore to develop. It’s a lot of ifs, but they definitely made the right decision with who was available.

[Dutchrudder 11160]

The Rockets should have asked to be the third team in the Same trade and take on Herro instead of Brooks. At least he is young, 23, and has potential to get much better. He's also a good shooter, something Brooks is not, and likely will never be. 20m a year for a role player like him is garbage, and incredibly stupid to commit to that much. 

Giving away Martin for 2 2nds seems bad. If it was KPJ I could understand, but I think Martin could develop into something. 

[Dutchrudder 11160]

Also, this use of cap space on a guy like Brooks, who doesn't raise your floor much at all, is a colossal mistake on the Rockets part. They should be using that 20-30m left after FVV signed, to be a facilitator of bigger trades to pick up future FRPs, expiring contracts and project players that could turn into something. They need to maintain flexibility, and Brooks is very unlikely to help with that when you overpay him by 1 year and 30 million. 

[Murfdogg21 4492]

22 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

The Rockets should have asked to be the third team in the Same trade and take on Herro instead of Brooks. At least he is young, 23, and has potential to get much better. He's also a good shooter, something Brooks is not, and likely will never be. 20m a year for a role player like him is garbage, and incredibly stupid to commit to that much. 

Sounds great for Houston, except they signed Brooks for defense culture. If Herro + Robinson + picks from MIA wasn’t enough for Portland, if we took Herro out of a multi-team deal what would be inserted for more value than Herro? You think Portland wants KPJ and Tate more than they’d want Herro?

[HtownHorn 14935]

1 hour ago, Dutchrudder said:

Also, this use of cap space on a guy like Brooks, who doesn't raise your floor much at all, is a colossal mistake on the Rockets part. They should be using that 20-30m left after FVV signed, to be a facilitator of bigger trades to pick up future FRPs, expiring contracts and project players that could turn into something. They need to maintain flexibility, and Brooks is very unlikely to help with that when you overpay him by 1 year and 30 million. 

They don't need future 1st round picks. They already have all of Brooklyn's. They needed players that set the culture that Udoka wants to coach. You may not like Brooks, but Udoka and the Rockets targeted him from the beginning. You may think $20M is an overpay, it is, but the Rockets had to spend the money, and adding multiple players wasn't an option because the Rockets already had a full roster.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18666]

It's not the $20 million that's so bad, but why on earth guarantee him 4 years of it? Who exactly were they bidding against? Memphis flat out announced they weren't bringing him back at any cost. Nobody else had any cap left other than the Spurs. And they have zero interest in signing a guy like that. If I try hard enough I could talk myself into taking a flyer on him and buying low for a year with a second year team option but now you're stuck with that chucking jackass for half a decade.

Also, can someone please explain to me why they are sending out assets to get rid of Washington and Garuba? Throwing in the towel on a 20 year old and a 21 year old after 1 and 2 years respectively just seems bizarre. 

[HtownHorn 14935]

4 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

It's not the $20 million that's so bad, but why on earth guarantee him 4 years of it? Who exactly were they bidding against? Memphis flat out announced they weren't bringing him back at any cost. Nobody else had any cap left other than the Spurs. And they have zero interest in signing a guy like that. If I try hard enough I could talk myself into taking a flyer on him and buying low for a year with a second year team option but now you're stuck with that chucking jackass for half a decade.

Also, can someone please explain to me why they are sending out assets to get rid of Washington and Garuba? Throwing in the towel on a 20 year old and a 21 year old after 1 and 2 years respectively just seems bizarre. 

Who gives a shit about the years? The Rockets had to spend the money, it doesn't hamstring the long-term finances of the team. When his contract is up the core of the team will be on average 24 years old. He is very good at playing defense. He will help the team.

Washington and Garuba fucking suck, they will be out of the league when their rookie contracts are over. This is the problem when you select 8 1st round picks in 3 years, you are going to draft some dudes that will get no playing time because you have to develop your other players.

Edited July 2, 2023 by HtownHorn

[Brothahorn 10088]

I like everything but signing Brooks. Especially for that much. You talk about culture and bring in that clown? He's another one of those circus idiots. He cares more about the show than actually winning games. And when he can't back up all the shit-talking, he will run and hide. Great attitude for the young guys to learn. 

 

On a team with some already questionable characters, you bring that clown in? Just a f'ing circus.

[Scraps 13600]

Man fuck Dillon Brooks

[Rockethorn1978 6153]

I like brooks. We need a dick enforcer no one likes like artest and bev and Rodman types. 

[Dutchrudder 11160]

The most Brooks would have gotten from another team was 4 years 53m on an MLE deal with a decent team. I think 3 years 60m would have been more reasonable for the Rockets, maybe a team option on the 4th, but 80m is too much. Dude wasn't getting anywhere near that much on another team. 

I also don't buy the culture for argument for paying Brooks so much. The guy had Steven Adams and JJJ on his team to help with defense and rebounds, hes not going to have near that much support on the Rockets, and I think that has a lot to do with the Grizzlies letting him go. He's also a loud mouth asshole who has a lot more bark than bite. I don't buy that as "improving the team" and "building a winning culture," and I think he will be dead weight in 2 years and may cost the team assets to dump his contract. 

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

Are the terms of the Brooks deal out there?  Can’t find

[goatsaag 279]

The problem with Brooks as a player is that he's another guy who doesn't create offense for anyone else and he loves to shoot while not being a very good shooter. Definitely think the Rockets would have been better off spending that money on a better backup center (the Mavs managed to bring Dwight Powell back for 3 years, 12 million total) and another guard who can shoot and create (Detroit traded a future 2nd to take on Monte Morris's expiring contract, the Rockets surely could have done that too).

[HtownHorn 14935]

At some point you have to realize that just because player A signed with team A for price A, doesn't mean player A would sign with team B for price A. Rockets are a shitty team, unless they overpaid they were not getting NBA players to come to Houston and mentor teenagers and 20 somethings.

Edited July 2, 2023 by HtownHorn

[goatsaag 279]

9 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

At some point you have to realize that just because player A signed with team A for price A, doesn't mean player A would sign with team B for price A. Rockets are a shitty team, unless they overpaid they were not getting NBA players to come to Houston and mentor teenagers and 20 somethings.

No shit the Rockets weren't going to sign Dwight Powell for 3 years, 12 million total. But could they have given him 12 million a year of money that they needed to spend that would be coming off the books when it was time to pay the young guys (assuming some of them pan out)? Yeah, probably. Instead they gave that money to Dillon Brooks.

And Jeff Green took a one year deal for 6 million to do exactly the thing you're saying NBA players wouldn't do.

[Rockethorn1978 6153]

I mean at least we’re trying so I’m willing to see what this team can do. If we did nothing everyone would be bitching the higher ups don’t care. What else was out there we could have gotten? I don’t think the route of letting a young roster play and improve was gonna work. We just finished year 3 of that and we were still bottom 3 in the league so they are trying another way. Let’s see what they can do first. 

[Macklemore 2881]

2 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

I like brooks. We need a dick enforcer no one likes like artest and bev and Rodman types. 

I loved Ron Artest and was excited as fuck when he joined the Rockets and we had a good season with him. Dillon Brooks is no Ron Artest. Patrick Beverley was a fan favorite his entire time he was here. Not the same by any stretch. I hope Brooks works out and he better mind his business and be a team player because the Rockets fan base is not going to put up with a replay of what he did in the playoffs for Memphis.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Macklemore

[HtownHorn 14935]

7 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

No shit the Rockets weren't going to sign Dwight Powell for 3 years, 12 million total. But could they have given him 12 million a year of money that they needed to spend that would be coming off the books when it was time to pay the young guys (assuming some of them pan out)? Yeah, probably. Instead they gave that money to Dillon Brooks.

And Jeff Green took a one year deal for 6 million to do exactly the thing you're saying NBA players wouldn't do.

It's likely Jeff Green has no other options. He's going to be 37, and made the veteran minimum last year. He got his ring.

[Rockethorn1978 6153]

4 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I loved Ron Artest and was excited as fuck when he joined the Rockets and we had a good season with him. Dillon Brooks is no Ron Artest. Patrick Beverley was a fan favorite his entire time he was here. Not the same by any stretch. I hope Brooks works out and he better mind his business and be a team player because the Rockets fan base is not going to put up with a replay of what he did in the playoffs for Memphis.

[LTtxfan 49414]

 

 

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

1 hour ago, goatsaag said:

No shit the Rockets weren't going to sign Dwight Powell for 3 years, 12 million total. But could they have given him 12 million a year of money that they needed to spend that would be coming off the books when it was time to pay the young guys (assuming some of them pan out)? Yeah, probably. Instead they gave that money to Dillon Brooks.

And Jeff Green took a one year deal for 6 million to do exactly the thing you're saying NBA players wouldn't do.

I think part of it was they needed to spend 40-50 million to reach the cap floor. They didn’t have the roster space to add five players. They needed to spend that money on 2-3 guys and no long term deals. FVV is basically two years (overpay), and Brooks is only at $20/yr. 
 

Plenty of contenders would trade for a + defender in a title run at only $20 mil a season. (If he doesn’t implode)
 

TLDR: They needed to spend a shit load of money, with very few roster spots to do so, and add players who both the team and player know is not part of the long term plan. Not sure that is a long list. 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by ChickenSandwich

[billfromlaketravis 11623]

Recap of the last couple days? 

[goatsaag 279]

26 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

TLDR: They needed to spend a shit load of money, with very few roster spots to do so, and add players who both the team and player know is not part of the long term plan. Not sure that is a long list. 

And I don't think that is Dillon Brooks. He wants a big role, lots of shots, and got 4 years. Hopefully it works out.

[Murfdogg21 4492]

33 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Recap of the last couple days? 

Rockets overpaid for second tier point guard Fred Van Vleet at tune of 3 yrs $130m. Had to overpay to get him but who knows if that much. At least third year is a team option. Hopefully he makes the offense better and helps develop the young guys. 
 

Drastically overpaid for Dillon Brooks (4 yrs for $80m). Had to overpay, but probably could’ve got him for something closer to 3 yrs $50m. I thought we had like $60m in cap space to sign guys outright, but apparently did the Brooks deal as a sign and trade with Memphis so we will give up some assets. Hopefully his defense runs off on the young guys. 
 

We did not offer to overpay enough to Brook Lopez and he resigned with Bucks for 2 yrs $48m. Confusing that we couldnt have overpaid Dillon Brooks quite as much and put a little more in the offer to Lopez. As some kind of backup plan, we signed a backup Aussie big man from the Suns. 
 

We gave KJ Martin to the Clippers for two 2nd round picks. 
 

We offloaded TyTy Washington and Garuba to the Hawks plus gave them two 2nd rounders and $1.1m cash for their trouble (received some euro dude’s rights who will never play in the NBA)

Rockets are part of some multi team trade that sent Patty Mills from Brooklyn to us then to OKC, and no word why we were even involved of what we give up or get back. 

[billfromlaketravis 11623]

8 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Rockets overpaid for second tier point guard Fred Van Vleet at tune of 3 yrs $130m. Had to overpay to get him but who knows if that much. At least third year is a team option. Hopefully he makes the offense better and helps develop the young guys. 
 

Drastically overpaid for Dillon Brooks (4 yrs for $80m). Had to overpay, but probably could’ve got him for something closer to 3 yrs $50m. I thought we had like $60m in cap space to sign guys outright, but apparently did the Brooks deal as a sign and trade with Memphis so we will give up some assets. Hopefully his defense runs off on the young guys. 
 

We did not offer to overpay enough to Brook Lopez and he resigned with Bucks for 2 yrs $48m. Confusing that we couldnt have overpaid Dillon Brooks quite as much and put a little more in the offer to Lopez. As some kind of backup plan, we signed a backup Aussie big man from the Suns. 
 

We gave KJ Martin to the Clippers for two 2nd round picks. 
 

We offloaded TyTy Washington and Garuba to the Hawks plus gave them two 2nd rounders and $1.1m cash for their trouble (received some euro dude’s rights who will never play in the NBA)

Rockets are part of some multi team trade that sent Patty Mills from Brooklyn to us then to OKC, and no word why we were even involved of what we give up or get back. 

So no big. Brooks for KJ. WTF Stone?

[Murfdogg21 4492]

54 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I think part of it was they needed to spend 40-50 million to reach the cap floor. They didn’t have the roster space to add five players. They needed to spend that money on 2-3 guys and no long term deals. FVV is basically two years (overpay), and Brooks is only at $20/yr. 
 

Plenty of contenders would trade for a + defender in a title run at only $20 mil a season. (If he doesn’t implode)
 

TLDR: They needed to spend a shit load of money, with very few roster spots to do so, and add players who both the team and player know is not part of the long term plan. Not sure that is a long list. 

 

“Because they had to spend it” is lazy and not a reason to be wasteful. They had to spend around $40m to get to the salary cap floor, and FVV’s contract basically did that. If they wanted Dillon Brooks and had to overpay, that’s fine it’s just an unprovable argument of did they have to give him 4/$80m. 
 

In two years, Green and Sengun need resigning. There’s a not small chance Dillon Brooks sucks by then and still has 2 yrs/$35m (? unknown descending value contract). The next year Smith and Eason need more money. The only cap room to sign a free agent will be FVV coming off the books. 

[LebongJames 1827]

They signed the Suns backup center or at least that was a rumor.

[Murfdogg21 4492]

12 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

So no big. Brooks for KJ. WTF Stone?

The maths work out like:

Started with $60.9m cap space 

Signed FVV ($43.3m/yr), Brooks ($20m/yr), Aussie backup center from PHX ($8m/yr). [~$71.3m/yr total against the $60.9 cap space]
 

Traded away KJ Martin, TyTy, Garuba for rights to old euro dude who will never play. 

[Ignatius 4081]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:20 PM, Rockethorn1978 said:

sengun is my hope he turns into another jokic 

I too hope someone on this roster develops into a multi-year MVP, finals winner, and likely hall of famer….

[HtownHorn 14935]

The Rockets could have close to $25M in cap room next year as well.

Waive Porter if he doesn't straighten out, his contract isn't guaranteed. $15.9M

Waive Londale, his contract isn't guaranteed past 1 year. ~$7.8M

Club option on Tate ~ $7M

 

[HtownHorn 14935]

Clutch from Clutchfans is saying

1) Garuba and Washington were traded to make room for Lopez

2) Lopez backed out of a verbal commitment, i.e. we got Bosh'd again

[HtownHorn 14935]

Holy shit, if we ever get floor spacing.

This is our next star player

[mycox 582]

Those are Dream moves. And the 25 sec mark is an exact replica of what Hakeem did to Robinson.

[HtownHorn 14935]

I guess without any further moves the rotation would look something like this.

Van Vleet - veteran PG, gets the offense moving in the half court.

Green - hopefully he develops as a 2-way guard

Brooks - top perimeter defender, get comfortable with the corner 3's.

Smith - top interior defender, needs to work on his 3-point shooting.

Sengun - top interior threat, secondary playmaker with the starting unit, likely the star of the team

Porter - 6th man, best returning 3-point shooter, can play on/off ball

Eason - 1st wing defender off the bench

Tate - backup wing defender, though he's not a great defender and a horrible offensive player with low basketball IQ

Longdale - backup minutes at the C and PF.

Thompson - will get some on ball minutes with the 2nd team, likely to start in the G-League

Whitmore - developed slowly likely starting in the G-League

[Murfdogg21 4492]

23 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Holy shit, if we ever get floor spacing.

This is our next star player

Meanwhile Jalen Green is banging Josh Christopher. Can we still trade Green for Jaylen Brown or Dame or somebody?

 

[Rockethorn1978 6153]

17 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Meanwhile Jalen Green is banging Josh Christopher. Can we still trade Green for Jaylen Brown or Dame or somebody?