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2023 Tropical Storm and Hurricane thread

HiggyBaby

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 48082

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BamaATL said:

I certainly can't think it helps, with everything being a "once in a lifetime" event it loses its emphasis.  At the same time, with all our fore-knowledge, scientific data, etc, it doesn't seem to help.  Even with the warnings and whatnot, people are generally stubborn, and have already made up their minds despite the information.  I have no idea what you do with that, or why humans are collectively willing to put their heads in the sand.  I know no one likes to hear bad news, and human generally go into to denial upon hearing it, but damn.  

Seriously. When Houston had a two 100 year and a 500 year storm in the span of about 4 years not too long ago, it sort of made it apparent that people need to rethink this stupid bullshit. It's every fucking year. 

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hayden_horn

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8 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Just don’t understand willing to live without electricity, air conditioning, food, being able to get out etc for days on end. Your house is now flooded and you have no idea what’s in the water. Seems like a terrible flex and life is about to be pretty miserable until shit gets repaired and cleaned up which could take weeks

maybe consider that a lot of folks in this country are not liquid enough to float a couple weeks at a hotel. maybe think about the fact that a lot of folks in this country have the majority of their wealth tied up in their real estate, such as it is, or in their belongings. maybe imagine facing the prospect of actually losing everything you own whilst your back account has maybe $100 in it because it's the end of the month and payday is tomorrow or friday for a lot of folks living paycheck to paycheck. imagine for a second being in a situation where it seems more rational and reasonable to stay and protect what you can rather than drive...somewhere and become homeless in your car until sometime when your service job becomes available again or you can find work soon to finance both deductibles and repairs to fix your living situation. 

just imagine for a second living a life where there is no place to go and no safeguards for your well being. 

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16593

Posted
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12 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

maybe consider that a lot of folks in this country are not liquid enough to float a couple weeks at a hotel. maybe think about the fact that a lot of folks in this country have the majority of their wealth tied up in their real estate, such as it is, or in their belongings. maybe imagine facing the prospect of actually losing everything you own whilst your back account has maybe $100 in it because it's the end of the month and payday is tomorrow or friday for a lot of folks living paycheck to paycheck. imagine for a second being in a situation where it seems more rational and reasonable to stay and protect what you can rather than drive...somewhere and become homeless in your car until sometime when your service job becomes available again or you can find work soon to finance both deductibles and repairs to fix your living situation. 

just imagine for a second living a life where there is no place to go and no safeguards for your well being. 

I certainly understand what you are saying, there are lots of people that live right on the edge from financial ruin, with or with out a disaster.  I have sympathy for those people, and I understand the strong desire to protect what little you may have.  However, this ignores part of the equation, which includes going to free shelters (not having to come out of pocket, with meals and safety).  It ignores that people had opportunities to get free transport to the shelters in preparation.  It's certainly not a cure all, but there was help available, and often times this is just ignored by people, like the warnings.  Whatever one's wealth situation maybe, nothing is worth losing your life over it.  

The part he was talking about in regard to being a weird flex is the people that have means, but nonetheless choose to say fuck you I'm tough, when realistically there is no reason to do it.  In fact, at that point you aren't a tough guy, you are an unnecessary logistical problem for rescue and recovery operations.  You shouldn't be there, had the ability to leave, choose not to, and now someone has to potentially risk their life to save yours; or they have to make a choice between your life and someone else's.  I don't know what real estate costs in Cedar Key, but I'm sure it isn't cheap.  I saw multiple people there of physical means, I presume financial means, who refused to leave despite the fore-warning that the island would be completely underwater.  I don't have much in the way of sympathy for people that make these sorts of decisions.  

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16593

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I was curious as to the shelter capacity in Levy County, where Cedar Key is located, so I looked it up.

https://www.floridadisaster.org/dem/response/infrastructure/statewide-emergency-shelter-plan/2020-statewide-emergency-shelter-plan2/

Reportedly, out of a capacity of 5,000 only 2,300 people elected to utilize these.  So much of the problem with this sort of situation isn't a lack of options, it's that humans, of all sorts (poor, rich, black, white, male, female, whatever), make poor choices.  So why do we do this?  

Rule number one in any emergency situation ought to be don't do anything to make the situation worse.  When one of the guys interviewed on Cedar Key said he was staying to ensure his neighbors were ok, the follow up question should have been, "Do you have any training to deal with any of this?"  Of course that wasn't asked, and I would bet that he probably doesn't.  Now what he was attempting to do, if you take his intentions on face value is in fact noble, however, he's potentially just upped the ante in terms of the problem with rescue.  

Mind you, I can't for sure say how I would react in this sort of situation, as the closest I've come is a tornado.  So while it's easy to be critical from afar, I get it, I'm not sure I wouldn't make the same foolhardy decision; I'd like to think that I would, but that's easy to say when it isn't your ass on the line.  Somehow, our collective thinking on these sorts of things are flawed, and that includes myself.  We have to make the choice to make better decisions, and frankly I'm not sure how that happens.   

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 25918

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FEMA is activating a Remote Support Camp. First step to recovery operations. This is not for the population, it is to support the FEMA's personnel who are heading in. No details as to where yet as the contractors are planning. Could be a stand up camp or taking over a Motel 6. 

About people not leaving. Happens all the time and it is not fun. Not only can responders not focus, they have to do stupid shit to get Cleetus out of a jam. 

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kevwun

kevwun 15777

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In Texas, State and Local Emergency Mgmt people are some of the biggest pain in the asses I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with.  They spend all of their time planning and being ignored.  When something happens and they finally have some kind of authority, they lose their damn minds.

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14918

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Posted
22 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

It must suck to be a diaster preparedness guy.  You tell people to leave and they don't listen.  Then they want to get saved.  You tell people to leave and nothing happens and then they blame you.  It's a no win game.

Reminds me of the parable of the drowning man. 
 

Spoiler

A storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

 

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9185

Posted
Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, kevwun said:

In Texas, State and Local Emergency Mgmt people are some of the biggest pain in the asses I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with.  They spend all of their time planning and being ignored.  When something happens and they finally have some kind of authority, they lose their damn minds.

Agree, I did a lot of point to point links for EOM cities and counties in TX/LA/MS in the past. Not my favorite group to work for 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30232

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maybe consider that a lot of folks in this country are not liquid enough to float a couple weeks at a hotel. maybe think about the fact that a lot of folks in this country have the majority of their wealth tied up in their real estate, such as it is, or in their belongings. maybe imagine facing the prospect of actually losing everything you own whilst your back account has maybe $100 in it because it's the end of the month and payday is tomorrow or friday for a lot of folks living paycheck to paycheck. imagine for a second being in a situation where it seems more rational and reasonable to stay and protect what you can rather than drive...somewhere and become homeless in your car until sometime when your service job becomes available again or you can find work soon to finance both deductibles and repairs to fix your living situation. 
just imagine for a second living a life where there is no place to go and no safeguards for your well being. 
mama is bedridden, her scooter doesn’t work, the car needs repairing, and you don’t have any money for a hotel room work ass.
This also ignores the fact that people with a lot of animals, or a missing animal, or who can’t go with you to a hotel will be the reason you’re staying and maybe die. I saw this  in Katrina more than you could imagine - people chose to stay and protect their pet rather than go out into the world without their pets.
and then there’s all of those old people who will stay in a matter what because they don’t want their “things“ to be harmed or stolen. It is very very difficult to get old people to leave everything they’ve acquired over their life when it all might be destroyed. It is not rational, but again, I have so many Katrina stories about parents who died rather than leave their home and possessions. 
One of my fellow Boy Scout leaders told me the last thing he said to his late father-in-law after an hour of trying to get him to leave his single-story Lakeview home, was “then stay here and drown in your home you stubborn old fart.”
He did. 
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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 48082

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I'm 43 years old, and I don't live paycheck to paycheck. Yet. My wife is working real hard to change that, however

That being said, I have options. I can afford gas to drive away, etc. 

But if I was in a situation where the only options were "Leave your Pet" or "Stay, becuase you can't take your pet" I can say with all honesty that I'm not sure how I would answer. 

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 25918

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5 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

Agree, I did a lot of point to point links for EOM cities and counties in TX/LA/MS in the last. Not my favorite group to work for 

For a few years I designed response approaches for a FEMA contractor. Each emergency is unique in a lot of ways. Lessons learned. 

A- These things take time to spin up. 

B- People are always hesitant to leave. 

C- Local officials never want to give up any power to the feds. 

Loved the job, but damn it was a beating. 

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Guest

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Watched a documentary on Mt. St. Helens a couple of nights ago. A old guy by the name of Harry Truman (srsly) was told he should leave because the volcano was going to explode. His reponse was along the lines of "If I leave and the volcano destroys this place, I'm going to die anyway. May as well stay." He did. He died in the eruption, which destroyed his place.

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FartingMonk

FartingMonk 3606

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28 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

For a few years I designed response approaches for a FEMA contractor. Each emergency is unique in a lot of ways. Lessons learned. 

A- These things take time to spin up. 

B- People are always hesitant to leave. 

C- Local officials never want to give up any power to the feds. 

Loved the job, but damn it was a beating. 

It's the decision time blame.  When you are required to make an instant decision.  Everyone says my hands are tied.  Just make a fucking decision.  

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9185

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42 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm 43 years old, and I don't live paycheck to paycheck. Yet. My wife is working real hard to change that, however

That being said, I have options. I can afford gas to drive away, etc. 

But if I was in a situation where the only options were "Leave your Pet" or "Stay, becuase you can't take your pet" I can say with all honesty that I'm not sure how I would answer. 

For a lot of people worrying about pets is a luxury. 

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FartingMonk

FartingMonk 3606

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3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You're not wrong, and I'm not judging man. I get it. I'm simply saying to the guy who was criticizing folks for refusing to leave becuase of a pet, well, I'd have a hard time with that decision myself. 

I think a lot of people understand the pet situation and most times.  They even tell you bring your pets.  But yeah.  I mean most people have like 2 dogs.  In rural Florida Suanne may have 19 cats.  That may become an issue

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16593

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1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

You ever stay at a shelter? Or volunteer at a shelter?

I have not stayed in a shelter because I've never had a threat that required it.  I would consider myself fortunate in that regard.  I have volunteered in the kitchen in one on several occasions.  It's not the Waldorf Astoria, but that isn't the point, and it's not too much to ask people in mandatory evacuation situations to go them to spend what amounts to all of one day in.  

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 48082

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3 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

I think a lot of people understand the pet situation and most times.  They even tell you bring your pets.  But yeah.  I mean most people have like 2 dogs.  In rural Florida Suanne may have 19 cats.  That may become an issue

You said pets. Not cats.

All joking aside, anyone who has 19 cats, those cats are mostly likely housed outside. The ones that are all inside, well, those people are mentally ill anyway. But for ones that hvae outside cats, they have to know they can't control them. If ther'es a storm, they aren't herding them inside the house and hoping for the best, becasue outside cats come and go when they please. Gotta make peace with that shit. 

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royiv

royiv 9301

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Posted
8 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You said pets. Not cats.

All joking aside, anyone who has 19 cats, those cats are mostly likely housed outside. The ones that are all inside, well, those people are mentally ill anyway. But for ones that hvae outside cats, they have to know they can't control them. If ther'es a storm, they aren't herding them inside the house and hoping for the best, becasue outside cats come and go when they please. Gotta make peace with that shit. 

Don't forget the piss.

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Pods

Pods 7552

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Posted
36 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

It's the decision time blame.  When you are required to make an instant decision.  Everyone says my hands are tied.  Just make a fucking decision.  

Exactly, but there's 2 types in these situations. 1 that will immediately execute some plan. It may work, or it may fail, but they move. The other kind freezes. 

There's no way to know what type you, your spouses, kids, sig others, friends etc are until a life or death crisis. 

We have 1 startle/go and 1 freeze in my house, so we now talk these things out and plan as much as possible beforehand to make sure we're both making a sound decision without stress influencing it. 

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15292

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21 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You said pets. Not cats.

All joking aside, anyone who has 19 cats, those cats are mostly likely housed outside. The ones that are all inside, well, those people are mentally ill anyway. But for ones that hvae outside cats, they have to know they can't control them. If ther'es a storm, they aren't herding them inside the house and hoping for the best, becasue outside cats come and go when they please. Gotta make peace with that shit. 

Fuck those cats.  If you died, little shits would start eating you before your body was even cold.  

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89656

Posted
Posted

 

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

You said pets. Not cats.

All joking aside, anyone who has 19 cats, those cats are mostly likely housed outside. The ones that are all inside, well, those people are mentally ill anyway. But for ones that hvae outside cats, they have to know they can't control them. If ther'es a storm, they aren't herding them inside the house and hoping for the best, becasue outside cats come and go when they please. Gotta make peace with that shit. 

And there’s another issue - if you have a shit-ton of cats for whatever reason, and you can’t round them up and you bail on the place and a bunch of the cats die in the hurricane, if after you get back you go to a shelter and get more cats to replace them, and then another hurricane hits and kills a bunch of cats, well it sounds like you’re just feeding shelter cats to hurricanes.

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27548

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2 hours ago, BamaATL said:

I have not stayed in a shelter because I've never had a threat that required it.  I would consider myself fortunate in that regard.  I have volunteered in the kitchen in one on several occasions.  It's not the Waldorf Astoria, but that isn't the point, and it's not too much to ask people in mandatory evacuation situations to go them to spend what amounts to all of one day in.  

I have lived through several hurricanes;  I evacuated for some and stayed for others. I also manned shelters for Katrina evacuees at our church and provided free healthcare for them at Ford Arena for the 4 weeks or so before we got slammed by Rita. Being in a common room with hundreds of strangers on cots with no place to secure your belongings and no way to care for your animals is a tougher proposition than you might think  

 

I will say my dad never evacuated for a single one (worked at one of the refineries so was either obligated to be on site or had to be in town on call), but after Rita he said he’d never stay for another. Hit land at Cat 4 and the outer bands had hurricane force winds. 12+ hours of wind > 60 mph with sustained winds > 120 mph for several hours. 
 

Their house was built in the 50’s and had withstood numerous storms. He said when the winds were at their worst he could see the internal walls and ceiling flexing in and out like the house was breathing

Mother Nature is a bad bitch

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UTexasFight

UTexasFight 9432

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1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Their house was built in the 50’s and had withstood numerous storms. He said when the winds were at their worst he could see the internal walls and ceiling flexing in and out like the house was breathing

Mother Nature is a bad bitch

That would freak me the fuck out 

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troph

troph 24787

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm 43 years old, and I don't live paycheck to paycheck. Yet. My wife is working real hard to change that, however

That being said, I have options. I can afford gas to drive away, etc. 

But if I was in a situation where the only options were "Leave your Pet" or "Stay, becuase you can't take your pet" I can say with all honesty that I'm not sure how I would answer. 

I was about to post no way I leave our pup behind and my wife would be even. Ore adamant.

Never abandoning this guy…

 

 

IMG_3833.jpeg
 

I would consider camping, sleeping in a truck or driving far enough away to find an Airbnb or hotel that would take him. 
 

The other reasons why people stay - immobile, no resources, etc make sense. Life sometimes sucks hard and not in a good way.

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kevwun

kevwun 15777

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4 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I have lived through several hurricanes;  I evacuated for some and stayed for others. I also manned shelters for Katrina evacuees at our church and provided free healthcare for them at Ford Arena for the 4 weeks or so before we got slammed by Rita. Being in a common room with hundreds of strangers on cots with no place to secure your belongings and no way to care for your animals is a tougher proposition than you might think  

 

I will say my dad never evacuated for a single one (worked at one of the refineries so was either obligated to be on site or had to be in town on call), but after Rita he said he’d never stay for another. Hit land at Cat 4 and the outer bands had hurricane force winds. 12+ hours of wind > 60 mph with sustained winds > 120 mph for several hours. 
 

Their house was built in the 50’s and had withstood numerous storms. He said when the winds were at their worst he could see the internal walls and ceiling flexing in and out like the house was breathing

Mother Nature is a bad bitch

My Aunt and Uncle stayed through Rita also and they said never again.  They thought they were gonna die.

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WBT

WBT 20564

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I am amazed that to this day there are people that say that the Rita evac was such a pain in the ass and that it didn't even come ashore here so they'll just stay next time.  I'm more than comfortable with the idea that I'd rather err on the side of being too cautious than go the other way.

Two years ago, Nicholas blew up more than expected just before landfall and came in just barely as a Cat 1.  I wasn't expecting it to be that bad and stayed and even that really sucked.  I don't think I slept all night.

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WBT

WBT 20564

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12 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Seriously. When Houston had a two 100 year and a 500 year storm in the span of about 4 years not too long ago, it sort of made it apparent that people need to rethink this stupid bullshit. It's every fucking year. 

I must have missed the one this year.

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FartingMonk

FartingMonk 3606

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I understand the people who cannot evacuate.  I also do not understand the people with young children who are unwilling to evacuate.  Trying to save your own life when shit goes awry is tough enough.  Now try that with a couple of young kids.  And then even in the aftermath when there is no electricity and it is just miserable outside.  

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UTexasFight

UTexasFight 9432

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1 hour ago, WBT said:

I am amazed that to this day there are people that say that the Rita evac was such a pain in the ass and that it didn't even come ashore here so they'll just stay next time.  I'm more than comfortable with the idea that I'd rather err on the side of being too cautious than go the other way.

 

I was just pissed because I had plans to be out of town anyway that weekend only to get going and be joined by ~1 million of my closest neighbors. 
(thankfully I left the evening before everyone else did and only took an extra hour or two to get where I was going)

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