San Antonio Spurs 2023 Offseason - Voodoo Dolls and Ping Pong Balls

[Michael Knight 12,948]

[Braff Zacklin 13,480]

That looks soooooooooo 'shopped.

[Kermit 3,136]

[Dutchrudder 11,126]

Monsieur Fantastique?

[angelfacedmongoloid 80]

On 5/23/2023 at 10:31 PM, Irieguy said:

Great writeup @Mitch Cumsteen  Wemby will be playing a win or go home game 3 on Thursday. I can’t find the game time. 

Game 3 is at 1:30 today, should be available on the NBA app again.

I didn't see much of game 2 but watched most of game 1 and it seems like he had a pretty similar statline. He's going to be one of those guys that seems like he had a quiet game but then you go look and see he had 20 and 10 with at least a few blocks. He's a good passer but isn't a huge assist guy, although I expect he'll get a few more per game with the way NBA scorekeepers give assists compared to the Euroleagues. His team would probably be harder to beat if he was more assertive and took more shots, there's a few things that factor into this like being a teenager on a team of grown men not wanting to upset team chemistry, strength/conditioning limitations, and the way the game is played in Europe compared to the NBA. 

[Irieguy 1,059]

Does anybody have this ESPN+ article? I would like to see what ridiculous assets we could get for Wemby. I know we never would trade. 
 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/37721876/2023-nba-draft-hypothetical-trades-wembanyama

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,526]

https://sports.yahoo.com/so-how-do-the-spurs-go-about-building-around-victor-wembanyama-140950483.html

Pretty good article about building out the roster, which is going to be fun to watch the rest of the Summer.

Spoiler

So, how do the Spurs go about building around Victor Wembanyama?
Dan Devine
Dan Devine
Senior NBA writer
Thu, May 25, 2023, 9:09 AM CDT·12 min read

6
There’s only so much you can ask for before it starts to seem greedy. Which is why, as he wound down the third-worst season in the august history of the San Antonio Spurs, Gregg Popovich knew better than to ask for more.

"We deserve no more luck ever in the history of NBA basketball," Popovich said before the end of the regular season, according to Spurs reporter Matthew Tynan. “Quit your crying. ‘Poor us. We have to start over again.’ It's baloney. I'm just grateful for the good fortune I've had.”

But blessedly for Pop, team CEO R.C. Buford, general manager Brian Wright, and everybody else in San Antonio silver-and-black, when it comes to the NBA Draft Lottery, it turns out deserve’s got nothing to do with it.

Losing 61 games in 1989 brought the Spurs David Robinson. Losing 62 games in 1997 brought them Tim Duncan. And now, losing 60 games in 2023 will bring them — spoiler alert for Krysten Peek’s post-lottery mock draft! — Victor Wembanyama, the 7-foot-4 French goliath tipped by many evaluators as the most tantalizing draft prospect since LeBron James entered the league 20 years ago.

“Our future was already bright,” Spurs chairman Peter J. Holt told reporters after the lottery-night victory. “Now it’s going to be through the moon.”

This latest bout of generational good fortune sparked thousands of new season-ticket orders in the first hours after the lottery win — just one indicator of how excited fans in San Antonio are for the arrival of a new tentpole talent around whom to build the next competitive iteration of a franchise that has won five NBA championships in the last quarter-century.

Once the pick’s actually in, though, Spurs brass will have to start answering the million-dollar question: What kind of team do they want to build around Wembanyama, and how exactly do they build it?

Metropolitan 92's French power forward Victor arrives for The National Basketball League's annual awards in Boulogne-Billancourt, on the outskirts of Paris, on May 17, 2023. Victor Wembanyama, was voted MVP of the season for the first time, and again named best youth and best defender at the National Basketball League's annual awards. The San Antonio Spurs on May 16, 2023 were awarded the top pick in next month's NBA draft, leaving them in pole position to land French prodigy Victor Wembanyama. (Photo by FRANCK FIFE / AFP) (Photo by FRANCK FIFE/AFP via Getty Images)
French sensation Victor Wembanyama arrives for The National Basketball League's annual awards in Boulogne-Billancourt, on the outskirts of Paris, on May 17, 2023. Wembanyama was voted MVP of the season for the first time, and again named best youth and best defender at the annual awards. (Photo by FRANCK FIFE/AFP via Getty Images)More
So many paths to choose
The Spurs enter their brave new world with only two contracts that extend beyond 2024, as much as $43.5 million in salary cap space to spend, and control of as many as 15 first-round draft picks and 26 second-round selections through 2030, including unprotected Hawks first-round picks in 2025 and 2027, thanks to last summer’s Dejounte Murray deal. No team with pre-existing contracts and player-development investments is a complete blank slate; San Antonio’s about as close as it gets, though.

As it stands, the only sizable contracts on San Antonio’s books beyond the end of next season belong to forward Keldon Johnson, who signed a four-year, $74 million contract extension last summer, and guard Devonte’ Graham, who came over from the Pelicans in a trade-deadline deal for Josh Richardson and will make $24.8 million over the next two seasons. While Graham offers the kind of high-volume long-distance shooting — 35.6% on more than nine 3-point attempts per 36 minutes of floor time for his career — that could prove useful for a Spurs team that ranked in the bottom third of the league in 3-point makes, attempts and accuracy last season, that’s also the kind of contract that seems tailor-made to serve as salary-matching ballast in a deal that returns a player whom San Antonio’s brass might see as a better long-term fit alongside its new main man.

Devin Vassell, the 11th pick in the 2020 NBA Draft, is eligible for an extension of his rookie deal this summer. Considering the last three such extensions the Spurs handed out (Dejounte Murray in 2019, Derrick White in 2020, Johnson in 2022) were four-year deals starting at between 13% and 15% of the salary cap, it seems reasonable to guess that a re-up would earn Vassell somewhere around $80 million through 2028.

Tre Jones is up for a new deal, too. It’ll be interesting to see whether the Spurs like the second-round-pick-turned-starting-point-guard and his unsurprisingly strong assist-to-turnover ratio (he is Tyus Jones’ little brother, after all) enough to sign him to an extension, or if they’re content to extend him a $5.2 million qualifying offer, let him hit restricted free agency and let him get an offer on the market before deciding whether to keep him around.

Rotation vets Doug McDermott, Zach Collins and Khem Birch will all be unrestricted free agents after next season (Collins’ $7.7 million deal for 2023-24 is unguaranteed until the day of the 2023 NBA draft). San Antonio’s trio of 2022 first-rounders – Jeremy Sochan, Malaki Branham and Blake Wesley – are all on cost-controlled, rookie-scale deals through at least 2027. A handful of two-way-ish prospects — big men Charles Bassey and Sandro Mamukelashvili, and wings Romeo Langford, Julian Champagnie and Dominick Barlow — dot the fringes of the discussion.

Which is to say: There’s nobody in the fold that the Spurs couldn’t move on from if they decided doing so would be best for the business of building around Wembanyama, no millstone salary so onerous that they couldn’t excise it if necessary — no real impediment to crafting the kind of team they decide makes the most sense. That means Wright and Co. can afford to blue-sky their approach to what the ideal supporting cast for the next big thing might look like.

What do you get the giant who has everything?
The beauty of bringing a skyscraping rim protector who can dribble, pass and shoot, with the skill set to play on the perimeter on both ends and the size to dominate on the interior, is that you can construct virtually any type of team around him that you can envision. The responsibility that comes with it, though, is to do so in a way that commits to exploring the full utility of such an overflowing toolkit.

"Victor will not be put in a box," Wembanyama’s Dallas-based agent, Bouna Ndiaye, recently told ESPN’s Brian Windhorst and Jonathan Givony. "People will have to adapt to him."

Translation: You’re not just going to tell him to stand under the rim with his arms up on defense and get his ass on the low block on the other end. A player with the handle to face up and attack from the wing, the footwork and shooting touch to comfortably launch from long distance, and the agility and length to handle himself switching out onto guards on the perimeter requires a more flexible approach to roster building and lineup construction. It ought to be fascinating to see how fluid Pop’s willing to be with his new prized pupil.

The fully realized version of Wembanyama, with a few years of NBA strength and conditioning under his belt, profiles as a blot-out-the-sun force at center. At first, though, you’d imagine him starting at power forward. Even if injuries might not be as large of a concern as you’d expect for a player so large and so thin, saving your brand-new generational prospect both the pounding that comes with guarding up a position and the primary responsibility for anchoring your defense every second that he’s on the court seems like a reasonable starting point.

Besides, if you’ve got a beefier 7-footer who can bang on the block, protect the rim and do a little playmaking alongside your just-drafted dauphin, deploying them together could go a long way toward transforming a terrible defense. Just ask J.B. Bickerstaff and the Cavaliers, who paired eternity-armed No. 3 draft pick Evan Mobley with stalwart pivot Jarrett Allen in 2021, and promptly saw a unit that had finished in the bottom five in points allowed per possession for five straight seasons transmogrify into one that finished sixth in defensive efficiency in 2021-22 and first last season.

If San Antonio thinks along those lines, Collins might be a pretty strong introductory frontcourt partner for Wembanyama. The former first-round pick out of Gonzaga showed flashes of two-way production with the Trail Blazers before a spate of injuries — to his left shoulder, his left ankle (twice) and his left foot — limited him to just 39 appearances in the span of three seasons. He played well for San Antonio in his return last season, though, averaging 11.6 points, 6.4 rebounds and 2.9 assists in 22.9 minutes per game, shooting 57% inside the arc and 37% beyond it.

He might not be quite as imposing a force on the glass as you’d like to pair with the reedier Wembanyama — he’s grabbed 22.5% of opponents’ misses across two seasons in San Antonio, a good-but-not-elite rate for a 4/5 type — but he can hold down the fort on the interior. He's held opponents to 54.9% shooting at the rim last season, the 11th-lowest mark among 269 players to guard at least 100 up-close tries during the regular season, according to Second Spectrum’s tracking. (It doesn’t hurt matters that Collins is the kind of, let’s say, always willing combatant who’ll be more than happy to get in the face of any opponent that decides to take liberties with the bright young thing.)

If the Spurs elect to play a traditional 5 alongside Wembanyama, the next intriguing question will be how they flank him on the perimeter. Vassell feels like a tailor-made fit. The 6-foot-5 wing can guard multiple positions, took significant steps forward last season as a ball-handler and shot-creator, and shot 43.2% on catch-and-shoot triples, 14th out of 169 players to put up at least 150 spot-up threes, according to Second Spectrum. I’m maybe more bullish on Vassell than is warranted — I believe I suggested early last season that, if you squinted at him, you could kind of see Year 3 Paul George, which, I’ll grant, feels strong — but if the goal is to surround the big fella with shooters who can defend, Vassell’s the best man for the job on the current roster.

Sochan, too, feels like a perfect complement — a hard-charging board-crasher capable of taking the toughest perimeter assignments every night; his list of most frequent defensive matchups as a rookie reads like an All-Star ballot. The second-year forward also provides utility as a complementary ball-handler (he spent a lot of time as a rookie functioning as a point guard; the only Spurs to bring the ball up the court more often last season were Jones, Branham and Wesley, according to Second Spectrum), playmaker (3.5 assists per 36 minutes, seventh among rookies who logged at least 500 minutes) and, um, stuff-stirring irritant to ratchet up the defensive intensity and physicality on a team that could use much more of both. Here’s hoping Sochan is spending his offseason launching a million jumpers; if he can improve from a 25% 3-point shooter defenses can ignore to a near-league-average marksman that they have to at least honor, it’d dramatically vault his, and San Antonio’s, offensive ceiling.

The most bankable present-tense commodity on the roster is probably Johnson. The Kentucky product has increased his scoring average in each of his first four pro seasons, saw his touches and usage rate increase after San Antonio shipped White to the Celtics at the 2022 trade deadline and became the Spurs’ No. 1 option last season after Murray headed to Atlanta, averaging a career-high 22 points per game while shooting 52% inside the arc and generating nearly six free-throw attempts per 36 minutes. His shooting efficiency tailed off considerably last season, from 39.8% from deep in 2021-22 to 32.9% last season; with a new centerpiece in Wembanyama in place, though, it’s worth wondering whether those numbers might tick back up in a more circumscribed role.

Will Pop let his freak flag fly enough to test-drive a mammoth lineup — Collins, Wembanyama, Johnson and Vassell, with Sochan running point — and see if it has enough collective shooting and playmaking to allow the defensive possibilities of all that size and length to shine through?

If he prefers to stick with a more traditional lead guard to make sure San Antonio can get into its sets and the top pick can get service without wings-masquerading-as-points kicking the ball all over the court, who goes to the bench? Could Pop sell Johnson on going from three seasons of starting and one of being the No. 1 option to being a sixth man? If that proves an awkward adjustment, is it worth finding out what a 23-year-old 20-plus-point scorer with upside might be able to return in trade — whether by himself, or with some of those many, many picks attached?

Can Jones shoot well enough (and frequently enough) to avoid the kind of offensive congestion that so frequently plagued the Spurs last season? If not, might Wright and the front office go hard after another table-setter better equipped to level up that offense? Like, say, Fred VanVleet, who’s got a player option for next season that he could exercise to hit the open market and who might look pretty good in silver and black. Or do they decide it’s a bit too early to start splashing the cash, preferring instead to let a rotation likely to feature at least a half-dozen players age 23 or younger simmer on the stove for a while to see what develops before looking to kickstart the drive to contention in earnest?

That is … a lot of questions. That’s what a talent like Wembanyama brings, though; with limitless possibility comes an endless array of doors to open, paths to choose and decisions to make. One day, pingpong-ball deliverance; the next, the difficult work of turning dreams into reality and potential into wins.

“You gotta get lucky,” Wright recently told reporters. “But you gotta put yourself in position to best capture that luck.”

In San Antonio, that process will likely start with deciding who’s playing which position, and which positions will need to be filled by something more than luck.

 

[angelfacedmongoloid 80]

https://t.co/RrOsEE3ROg

Link to the game for anyone interested

[Fastbreak 3,962]

A path to getting Scoot

Blazers get:
Ayton

Suns get:
McDermott
Graham
Little
2024 #1 (Tor) from SA

Spurs get:
2023 #3
Nurkic

This trade actually works contract wise. The spurs don’t give up much, but are needed to make the money work and have to take the 3 years left on Nurkic.

The Suns are getting depth with 3 bench guys who could see some playoff minutes and a #1 next year from the Raptors.

[Kermit 3,136]

9 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

A path to getting Scoot

Blazers get:
Ayton

Suns get:
McDermott
Graham
Little
2024 #1 (Tor) from SA

Spurs get:
2023 #3
Nurkic

This trade actually works contract wise. The spurs don’t give up much, but are needed to make the money work and have to take the 3 years left on Nurkic.

The Suns are getting depth with 3 bench guys who could see some playoff minutes and a #1 next year from the Raptors.

[Dutchrudder 11,126]

1 hour ago, Irieguy said:

Does anybody have this ESPN+ article? I would like to see what ridiculous assets we could get for Wemby. I know we never would trade. 
 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/37721876/2023-nba-draft-hypothetical-trades-wembanyama

Sure, here ya go lol:

Quote

We know the San Antonio Spurs aren't actually going to trade the 2023 No. 1 overall pick.

But what if a trade offer landed on the desk of Spurs general manager Brian Wright that at least forced the organization to briefly consider it ... before saying no?

Projected as the first player off the board in Jonathan Givony's latest NBA mock draft, Victor Wembanyama was not at last week's draft combine, as he's concluding his season with Metropolitans 92 in France. But NBA teams have seen enough of the 19-year-old French big leading up to the draft that NBA commissioner Adam Silver could announce the pick immediately after declaring the Spurs are on the clock.

That was the task of our NBA insiders as they were asked to play the role of GM and propose hypothetical trades for San Antonio's top pick, and the right to draft Wembanyama on June 22, that wouldn't make Wright immediately hang up the phone (which he'd probably do anyway).

"Process 2.0" in Philly
San Antonio Spurs get: Joel Embiid

Philadelphia 76ers gets: 2023 No. 1 overall pick, Toronto's 2024 first-round pick, Doug McDermott, Devonte' Graham

Let's say the reigning NBA MVP decides to send the next shock wave throughout the league by requesting a trade from Philadelphia this summer. The 76ers couldn't close out a 3-2 lead against the Boston Celtics and failed to get past the second round for the sixth straight season. They are once again looking for a coach, James Harden is a free agent, and maybe Embiid decides he has reached the ceiling in Philadelphia and the Sixers start taking calls on his availability. What about the league MVP for the No. 1 pick? Big for big? Embiid for Wembanyama?

Both teams would be undergoing pretty drastic pivots in this scenario. For Philly, this would mark the official end of "the process era," but instead of a full rebuild, this "Process 2.0" gets jump-started by another swing at a generational talent at the top of the draft. And San Antonio passes on the chance of a potential great player for a proven dominant center.

It would instantly shift the Spurs into a competitive mindset with Embiid in his prime, cap space and a draft pick haul from last summer's Dejounte Murray trade they could use to build a team around Embiid to compete in the West. In the above trade scenario, San Antonio gets to clear a few more contracts off its books and keep all of its financial flexibility, but there's a version of this deal that could just swap the centers straight up, with maybe an additional pick going to Philadelphia. A move like this would be the antithesis of how the Spurs have historically operated. Without another ready star on the roster, making a move to acquire Embiid, who turns 30 next season and has a long injury history, actually makes San Antonio the team most likely to turn down this deal. But in a world where Embiid is available, the chance at Wembanyama is enough upside to make negotiations intriguing.

-- Jamal Collier

Chet Holmgren missed the entire 2022-23 season because of a foot injury. Alex Goodlett/Getty Images
The Thunder make use of their draft picks
San Antonio Spurs get: Chet Holmgren, 2023 No. 12 pick, 2024 Rockets first-rounder (top-four protected), 2025 76ers first-rounder (top-six protected), 2026 Clippers first-rounder

Oklahoma City Thunder get: 2023 No. 1 overall pick

Surely, if the Thunder called about trading for the No. 1 pick, the Spurs' ask would include All-NBA guard Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, All-Rookie first-team pick Jalen Williams and all eight extra first-round picks Oklahoma City has coming over the next four years. More realistically, building a trade offer around last year's No. 2 pick would give San Antonio a blue-chip prospect along with extra picks in each of the next four years -- one of them already in the lottery and the other three with considerable upside -- while allowing the Thunder to plug Wembanyama alongside the perimeter-heavy core that reached the play-in tournament as the NBA's second-youngest team this season.

Holmgren and Wembanyama have been tied at least since squaring off in the final of the 2021 FIBA U19 World Cup. Wembanyama had 22 points, 8 rebounds and an eye-popping 8 blocks in his coming-out party at age 17, while Holmgren had 10 points and five assists as the USA held off France in a thrilling 83-81 win. Both young big men stand out for their ability to create shots off the dribble at their size, but Wembanyama's superior size (he's 7-foot-5 in shoes to Holmgren's 7 feet and has an 8-foot wingspan as compared to Holmgren's 7-6) and higher-usage offensive role portend greater NBA upside. Add in the fact that Holmgren is a year closer to restricted free agency after missing his first NBA season because of a Lisfranc injury, and the Spurs would surely reject this offer, even if the Thunder threw in more draft picks from their stockpile. That's a testament to how special Wembanyama is as a prospect.

-- Kevin Pelton

Orlando Magic forward Paolo Banchero won the 2022 NBA Rookie of the Year. Douglas P. DeFelice/Getty Images
The 2022 Rookie of the Year on the move
San Antonio Spurs get: Paolo Banchero, Jalen Suggs, two first-round picks (2023 No. 6 and No. 11)

Orlando Magic get: 2023 No. 1 overall pick

This at least gets San Antonio to answer the phone, right? Right?? Look, we all know how hard it would be to actually get the Spurs to trade this pick away. If you have to do it, you have to swing for the fences. In return for Wembenyama, the Magic would send the 2023 Rookie of the Year and 2022 No. 1 pick (Banchero) as well as one of the team's lottery selections from the 2021 draft (Suggs). Throw in this year's two first-rounders and that's four top-11 selections over a three-year span for the French phenom. Banchero averaged 20.0 points, 6.9 rebounds and 3.7 assists in his rookie season. San Antonio also gets Suggs, the No. 5 pick in 2021, who has struggled shooting the ball but was 36% from deep after the All-Star break this season.

Banchero, 20, showed the ability to take over games at a young age last season. He would immediately form one of the league's better young duos along with 23-year-old Keldon Johnson, who averaged 22 points a season ago. Banchero could give San Antonio unique possibilities with larger lineups in Johnson, Jeremy Sochan and Devin Vassell. Throw in Tre Jones, Zach Collins, Malaki Branham and whomever the Spurs pick with the other two lottery picks, and the bones of a nice, young team on the come-up start to take shape. Maybe not the shape of a 7-5 French player with an 8-foot wingspan, but a shape nonetheless.

-- Andrew Lopez

 

[Hermanator 7,000]

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

A path to getting Scoot

Blazers get:
Ayton

Suns get:
McDermott
Graham
Little
2024 #1 (Tor) from SA

Spurs get:
2023 #3
Nurkic

This trade actually works contract wise. The spurs don’t give up much, but are needed to make the money work and have to take the 3 years left on Nurkic.

The Suns are getting depth with 3 bench guys who could see some playoff minutes and a #1 next year from the Raptors.

Why would the Blazers trade the #3 pick for a disgruntled dude on a big contract with a bad attitude who fought with his coach and did jack shit for his team in the playoffs? Not even Jordan is retarded enough to do that. 

[Fastbreak 3,962]

The blazers are supposedly targeting him (but need a middleman team for salary). It’s the same team that drafted Bowie over Jordan and Oden over KD. You tell me.

[HookEm 2,450]

Would the Spurs be crazy to target Draymond Green in free agency?  He still averaged 9 PTS, 7 REB, 7 AST last year and played 73 games at 31.5 mpg.  Pop isn't getting any younger, so I think they should immediately shift into "win now" mode.  Draymond could help establish a winning culture and was still 2nd team All-Defense this year. His passing and style of play would also fit well with the Spurs.  He could also be a good mentor for Jeremy Sochan, who may someday have a comparable game.

 

[ztejas 43,382]

12 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Would the Spurs be crazy to target Draymond Green in free agency?  He still averaged 9 PTS, 7 REB, 7 AST last year and played 73 games at 31.5 mpg.  Pop isn't getting any younger, so I think they should immediately shift into "win now" mode.  Draymond could help establish a winning culture and was still 2nd team All-Defense this year. His passing and style of play would also fit well with the Spurs.  He could also be a good mentor for Jeremy Sochan, who may someday have a comparable game.

 

No and I like the idea. I think Simmons or someone on his pod floated it recently. 

Not sure it's something Dray would want to sign up for, though. 

[Aqua Buddha 14,531]

What sayeth the Spurs fans?

If I'm Okie City, I'm the one that doesn't make that.  The Clippers 2026 looks tasty at this point.

 

[ztejas 43,382]

That trade is fucking terrible. Giddey at the very least would have to be part of any deal and probably something like him plus Jalen plus picks.

Or SGA I guess. 

[Hank_Hill 18,615]

They aren’t trading him for anything less than another superstar, they have a fuck ton of first round picks already 

[Michael Knight 12,948]

Outside of Luka Jokic or Giannis no thanks

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,526]

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

What sayeth the Spurs fans?

If I'm Okie City, I'm the one that doesn't make that.  The Clippers 2026 looks tasty at this point.

 

I wouldn’t trade him for that entire worthless state. 

[Hermanator 7,000]

3 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

The blazers are supposedly targeting him (but need a middleman team for salary). It’s the same team that drafted Bowie over Jordan and Oden over KD. You tell me.

They aren't targeting him to give up the number 3 pick in a draft that has 3-4 almost sure fire top guys. He's disgruntled and Phoenix has a devalued commodity because everyone knows it. 

[Hermanator 7,000]

2 hours ago, HookEm said:

Would the Spurs be crazy to target Draymond Green in free agency?  He still averaged 9 PTS, 7 REB, 7 AST last year and played 73 games at 31.5 mpg.  Pop isn't getting any younger, so I think they should immediately shift into "win now" mode.  Draymond could help establish a winning culture and was still 2nd team All-Defense this year. His passing and style of play would also fit well with the Spurs.  He could also be a good mentor for Jeremy Sochan, who may someday have a comparable game.

 

A team full of guys under 25 including a future superstar 19 year old and you want to add the guy who assaults his own teammates and has major anger and control issues. Probably not the best role model to follow. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,526]

You probably can’t play Draymond and Sochan together either. Too much redundancy and not enough shooting.  Sochan needs those developmental minutes and he needs to play as many minutes as possible with Wemby if they think he’s a long term piece (and I’m pretty certain he is). 

[Hate 20,104]

Shooters!! Sign shooters.

[ztejas 43,382]

2 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

You probably can’t play Draymond and Sochan together either. Too much redundancy and not enough shooting.  Sochan needs those developmental minutes and he needs to play as many minutes as possible with Wemby if they think he’s a long term piece (and I’m pretty certain he is). 

That's a good point and almost assuredly why it wouldn't happen. I hadn't thought about it in that context. 

Him punching mega-douchenozzle Jordan Poole and being an irritable jackass en route to 4 NBA titles and being the best defensive player of his generation would be less of a concern for me, personally. 

[ztejas 43,382]

We really fucked up the Derrick White trade. Cest la vie I guess. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,526]

49 minutes ago, ztejas said:

We really fucked up the Derrick White trade. Cest la vie I guess. 

Nah. Very solid rotation player but he was on a different timeline than the franchise. He had to go for the tank. They got Wesley for him who showed some flashes last year despite being hurt and who is also 9 years younger and about $80 million cheaper, Josh Richardson who they turned into 4 second round picks, Graham who could be useful salary filler in a trade or even a gunner off the bench, and a total flyer on a 2028 Celtics first round pick swap that you just never know about. That’s a haul for the 29th pick in the draft who scores 12 ppg as a starting two in the league and got murdered by Jimmy Butler the first three games of this series. 

[gofuckyourself 8,164]

38 minutes ago, ztejas said:

We really fucked up the Derrick White trade. Cest la vie I guess. 

Hopefully too soon to declare they "fucked it up." Blake Wesley hopefully improves. The injury was unfortunate. But he's only 20 and hopefully gets a full season and has worked on his shortcomings. He flashed several times including decent three point shooting. With Wembanyama he could be a good weapon if he develops.

They traded Josh Richardson for four 2nd round picks and Devonte Graham. Graham may not be much but maybe a trade piece, and the four picks could definitely be leveraged if not productive in themselves.

Much TBD on it. White has found a niche with Boston for sure.

Aka what Mitch just wrote... beat me to it.

[ztejas 43,382]

6 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

but he was on a different timeline than the franchise.

I get that but the rest I disagree on. He was 2nd team all D this season and he was just the 2nd best player on his team in a must-win game 5 in the Eastern Conference Finals. I wish we would have found a way to keep him on the roster. I mean I'd much rather have him than KJ. 

Also White showed some big flashes in the playoffs that one season iirc. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by ztejas

[ztejas 43,382]

Would y'all rather have Vassell or White? 

[gofuckyourself 8,164]

Vassell. Younger and was taking big strides, especially early last year, with consistent play and good outside shooting. Also got injured and lost time. He still has room for improvement on both ends.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,526]

9 hours ago, ztejas said:

Would y'all rather have Vassell or White? 

Is this even a serious question? Vassell and it's not even close. He's bigger / longer / better athlete / better finisher. He's a better three point shooter on a higher volume getting worse looks. He's on par defensively -- probably a little worse one on one and White is a witch at taking charges, but Vassell is a better overall team defender (help and playing passing lanes). He's 6 years younger.

But most of all, he's on a crazy developmental curve. They shut him down last year to keep the tank going, but look at how he's growing offensively as a player. I know nobody was watching and he sat out a ton of games, but he was flat out balling. He was their best player last season by far.

Season	Age	Team	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2020-21	20	SAS	NBA	SF	62	7	17.0	2.0	4.9	.406	0.8	2.4	.347	1.1	2.5	.464	.492	0.7	0.8	.843	0.4	2.4	2.8	0.9	0.7	0.3	0.4	1.4	5.5
2021-22	21	SAS	NBA	SF	71	32	27.3	4.6	10.8	.427	1.9	5.4	.361	2.7	5.4	.492	.516	1.2	1.4	.838	0.6	3.7	4.3	1.9	1.1	0.6	0.8	2.0	12.3
2022-23	22	SAS	NBA	SG	38	32	31.0	6.9	15.7	.439	2.7	7.0	.387	4.2	8.7	.480	.525	2.1	2.6	.780	0.2	3.7	3.9	3.6	1.1	0.4	1.5	1.5	18.5

This is White's first three years. And he was older as a rookie than Vassell is now.

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2017-18	23	SAS	NBA	PG	17	0	8.2	0.9	1.9	.485	0.5	0.8	.615	0.5	1.2	.400	.606	0.8	1.2	.700	0.3	1.2	1.5	0.5	0.2	0.2	0.4	0.5	3.2
2018-19	24	SAS	NBA	PG	67	55	25.8	3.9	8.1	.479	0.7	2.1	.338	3.2	6.0	.529	.523	1.4	1.8	.772	0.5	3.2	3.7	3.9	1.0	0.7	1.4	2.2	9.9
2019-20	25	SAS	NBA	SG	68	20	24.7	3.7	8.1	.458	1.2	3.2	.366	2.6	4.9	.518	.530	2.6	3.1	.853	0.5	2.8	3.3	3.5	0.6	0.9	1.3	2.2	11.3

For reference, this is Kawhi's first three years.

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2011-12	20	SAS	NBA	SF	64	39	24.0	3.1	6.3	.493	0.6	1.7	.376	2.5	4.6	.536	.543	1.1	1.4	.773	1.6	3.5	5.1	1.1	1.3	0.4	0.7	1.4	7.9
2012-13	21	SAS	NBA	SF	58	57	31.2	4.5	9.1	.494	1.1	3.0	.374	3.4	6.1	.554	.556	1.8	2.2	.825	1.1	4.9	6.0	1.6	1.7	0.6	1.1	1.7	11.9
2013-14	22	SAS	NBA	SF	66	65	29.1	5.1	9.8	.522	1.0	2.8	.379	4.1	7.0	.579	.576	1.5	1.9	.802	1.2	5.1	6.2	2.0	1.7	0.8	1.2	1.9	12.8

Granted, it's one thing to be a lower usage guy on a championship level team and another thing to be on a tank, but by the same token... Vassell hasn't exactly been feasting on easy looks created from his teammates. I imagine he's only going to be more effective and efficient once teams start having to account for Toothpick Vic. Which kind of brings us back to the White discussion, because it is so much easier for him playing off Tatum and Brown. 

[gofuckyourself 8,164]

I never liked White much. Maybe it's the 3 foot long receding hairline.

He reminded me of slowmo. A "savvy" player, same spot in the draft too. Felt like he was not going to advance much and was nearly maxed out from day one. Granted both he and Anderson probably just had their best years, but that wasn't a huge uptick.

Vassell could really have a season with Slim Wemby coming to town, and create a dynamic duo for years to come.

By the way, I like Toothpick Vic quite a bit.

I also think we need 5 to 10 nicknames that can be employed based on his specialty or particularly impressive performance.

Wemby is too bland and says nothing for any skill set or achievements.

My offerings are

- The French Rejection

- Victor Huge-O (French novelist tie-in? Oui?)

- The Slam Dunk' Sommelier

- Monsieur Beaucoup Buckets

- The French Revolution

- Torrentiel Trois

Maybe the last one doesn't work. Something about Raining Threes. Shower of threes, Douche Trois, somehow seemed worse.

I grew up in San Antonio so it was four years of Spanish, not French. So I'll defer to our resident Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys on this.

C'est la vie.

Edited May 26, 2023 by gofuckyourself
Je ne sais quoi. Deja Vu. Chocolate Mousse. Crepe Suzette.

[Braff Zacklin 13,480]

Those nicknames are bad (forced), and you should feel bad.

[gofuckyourself 8,164]

1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Those nicknames are bad (forced), and you should feel bad.

Is it wrong that I don't? I'll probably double down now like when my pre-teen kids groan at my dad jokes.

[Michael Knight 12,948]

he already has a nickname, they call him the alien

[ztejas 43,382]

So that Derrick White guy.

[Patrick Bateman 3,910]

On 5/25/2023 at 4:28 PM, Fastbreak said:

The blazers are supposedly targeting him (but need a middleman team for salary). It’s the same team that drafted Bowie over Jordan and Oden over KD. You tell me.

They wouldn't..... Ayton has shown he shrinks in the playoffs.  Ayton's a very good pick and dive big, but he either needs to extend or get a legit post game.  And now he's expensive.  Think I'd rather take the chance of a home run with the 3rd pick.  This is a stupid idea.  Besides:

Quote

An NBA source told The Oregonian/OregonLive that Ayton for the No. 3 pick is not remotely a thing.

 

On 5/25/2023 at 4:48 PM, HookEm said:

Would the Spurs be crazy to target Draymond Green in free agency?  He still averaged 9 PTS, 7 REB, 7 AST last year and played 73 games at 31.5 mpg.  Pop isn't getting any younger, so I think they should immediately shift into "win now" mode.  Draymond could help establish a winning culture and was still 2nd team All-Defense this year. His passing and style of play would also fit well with the Spurs.  He could also be a good mentor for Jeremy Sochan, who may someday have a comparable game.

 

No.  Wait, yes.  Why pay a declining player a ton of money who's also a major distraction especially when he plays a similar game to one of your foundation pieces.  Besides 19-20' which was weird, this is Draymond's worst year since his rookie's.  Maybe if he was insanely cheap but even then..... extremely doubtful.

 

On 5/25/2023 at 5:05 PM, Aqua Buddha said:

What sayeth the Spurs fans?

If I'm Okie City, I'm the one that doesn't make that.  The Clippers 2026 looks tasty at this point.

 

Go home OKC fan...... you're drunk.

On 5/25/2023 at 11:10 PM, ztejas said:

Would y'all rather have Vassell or White? 

Vassell b/c of age and fit but White's a better player right now.  He should, he's 28, and in his prime.

 

On 5/26/2023 at 9:29 AM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Is this even a serious question? Vassell and it's not even close. He's bigger / longer / better athlete / better finisher. He's a better three point shooter on a higher volume getting worse looks. He's on par defensively -- probably a little worse one on one and White is a witch at taking charges, but Vassell is a better overall team defender (help and playing passing lanes). He's 6 years younger.

But most of all, he's on a crazy developmental curve. They shut him down last year to keep the tank going, but look at how he's growing offensively as a player. I know nobody was watching and he sat out a ton of games, but he was flat out balling. He was their best player last season by far.

Season	Age	Team	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2020-21	20	SAS	NBA	SF	62	7	17.0	2.0	4.9	.406	0.8	2.4	.347	1.1	2.5	.464	.492	0.7	0.8	.843	0.4	2.4	2.8	0.9	0.7	0.3	0.4	1.4	5.5
2021-22	21	SAS	NBA	SF	71	32	27.3	4.6	10.8	.427	1.9	5.4	.361	2.7	5.4	.492	.516	1.2	1.4	.838	0.6	3.7	4.3	1.9	1.1	0.6	0.8	2.0	12.3
2022-23	22	SAS	NBA	SG	38	32	31.0	6.9	15.7	.439	2.7	7.0	.387	4.2	8.7	.480	.525	2.1	2.6	.780	0.2	3.7	3.9	3.6	1.1	0.4	1.5	1.5	18.5

This is White's first three years. And he was older as a rookie than Vassell is now.

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2017-18	23	SAS	NBA	PG	17	0	8.2	0.9	1.9	.485	0.5	0.8	.615	0.5	1.2	.400	.606	0.8	1.2	.700	0.3	1.2	1.5	0.5	0.2	0.2	0.4	0.5	3.2
2018-19	24	SAS	NBA	PG	67	55	25.8	3.9	8.1	.479	0.7	2.1	.338	3.2	6.0	.529	.523	1.4	1.8	.772	0.5	3.2	3.7	3.9	1.0	0.7	1.4	2.2	9.9
2019-20	25	SAS	NBA	SG	68	20	24.7	3.7	8.1	.458	1.2	3.2	.366	2.6	4.9	.518	.530	2.6	3.1	.853	0.5	2.8	3.3	3.5	0.6	0.9	1.3	2.2	11.3

For reference, this is Kawhi's first three years.

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2011-12	20	SAS	NBA	SF	64	39	24.0	3.1	6.3	.493	0.6	1.7	.376	2.5	4.6	.536	.543	1.1	1.4	.773	1.6	3.5	5.1	1.1	1.3	0.4	0.7	1.4	7.9
2012-13	21	SAS	NBA	SF	58	57	31.2	4.5	9.1	.494	1.1	3.0	.374	3.4	6.1	.554	.556	1.8	2.2	.825	1.1	4.9	6.0	1.6	1.7	0.6	1.1	1.7	11.9
2013-14	22	SAS	NBA	SF	66	65	29.1	5.1	9.8	.522	1.0	2.8	.379	4.1	7.0	.579	.576	1.5	1.9	.802	1.2	5.1	6.2	2.0	1.7	0.8	1.2	1.9	12.8

Granted, it's one thing to be a lower usage guy on a championship level team and another thing to be on a tank, but by the same token... Vassell hasn't exactly been feasting on easy looks created from his teammates. I imagine he's only going to be more effective and efficient once teams start having to account for Toothpick Vic. Which kind of brings us back to the White discussion, because it is so much easier for him playing off Tatum and Brown. 

Yuck.  Vassell vs Kawhi is a crazy bad comparison.

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Patrick Bateman

[ztejas 43,382]

16 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Vassell b/c of age and fit but White's a better player right now.  He should, he's 28, and in his prime.

I'd rather have DV too but God damn White looks good right now. I'd give our FO a B+ during this rebuild but finding a way to keep DW could have pushed that into A territory. He's a title contending team's 3rd or 4th best player. 

[Irieguy 1,059]

Wemby plays Tony Parker’s team ASVEL in the Semis Sunday morning at 8:15AM CT. ASVEL is led by former Spur Nando De Colo. Vegas has it as a pick ‘em so it should be a great test. NBA app again. 1st game in a best of 5 series. 

[Irieguy 1,059]

Game on now. Back and forth close game that is a real test for Wemby. I’m enjoying watching Wemby on D much more than on O. Do yourself a favor and watch somebody with an 8’ wingspan who is quicker than Rudy Gobert and other elite shot blockers. He blocks 3 pointers that nobody else would even attempt to block. But the real comical part is watching players get the ball to within 4-6 feet of the basket and just have no idea what to do. They can’t shoot over him and they can’t get past him. 
 

Now on the downside, he’s been really cold from 3. Like 25% in last 3 games I think. And a couple times he has tried to drive instead of taking open threes. That has not gone well. A couple turnovers and bad passes have resulted. But man once he starts hitting threes consistently … unstoppable. 

[Irieguy 1,059]

And right after I posted, Wemby hit a beautiful step back 2, swished a 3, and finished a couple alley oops. The announcers made a good point, Wemby already makes 82% of free throws. That’s a huge weapon for a big man.  I feel the need to make caveats maybe just to keep my expectations somewhat tempered. He attempts some very “ambitious” passes. And they look really bad when they don’t work. Be prepared to see that and for haters to clown on them.

[Irieguy 1,059]

19 pts, 14 rebounds, 3 steals and 2 blocks in what turned in to an easy win. Probably a minimum of 6 shots altered and 3 delay of games forced. ASVEL has height and skilled players and he completely stymied them at times. 

[ztejas 43,382]

38 minutes ago, Irieguy said:

I feel the need to make caveats maybe just to keep my expectations somewhat tempered.

There's no need to make caveats. He's actually that fucking incredible. He has the tool kit to be the most impossible basketball player we've ever seen on both ends of the floor. Like if Kareem played D like Hakeem. 

The only big caveat or red flag is his health. How many games is this kid going to play over his career? The physics aren't in his favor but I agree with I think @Mitch Cumsteen who said that he is very fluid and moves well for his size. Still, that may be wishful thinking. I mean if we could get 300 games his first five seasons I might as well die and go to heaven. He's going to light the league on fire as soon as he steps foot on the court. This kid is that fucking special. I legitimately think like Duncan he could flirt with all-NBA as a rookie. Look at what Luka was doing or putting up numbers wise in Euroleague and how quickly he then tore teams a new asshole in the NBA. 

There's a reason this lottery was a really, really big deal. We don't need to sit here and pretend like his game has holes. Let him work with an NBA coaching staff and get Timmeh in his ear and just watch him go. He's going to blow people's fucking minds. I just hope he isn't the next Yao or Greg Oden. Shit I'd take the games Embiid has wound up playing as a bad case. 

[Irieguy 1,059]

7 minutes ago, ztejas said:

There's no need to make caveats. He's actually that fucking incredible. He has the tool kit to be the most impossible basketball player we've ever seen on both ends of the floor. Like if Kareem played D like Hakeem. 

The only big caveat or red flag is his health. How many games is this kid going to play over his career? The physics aren't in his favor but I agree with I think @Mitch Cumsteen who said that he is very fluid and moves well for his size. Still, that may be wishful thinking. I mean if we could get 300 games his first five seasons I might as well die and go to heaven. He's going to light the league on fire as soon as he steps foot on the court. This kid is that fucking special. I legitimately think like Duncan he could flirt with all-NBA as a rookie. Look at what Luka was doing or putting up numbers wise in Euroleague and how quickly he then tore teams a new asshole in the NBA. 

There's a reason this lottery was a really, really big deal. We don't need to sit here and pretend like his game has holes. Let him work with an NBA coaching staff and get Timmeh in his ear and just watch him go. He's going to blow people's fucking minds. I just hope he isn't the next Yao or Greg Oden. Shit I'd take the games Embiid has wound up playing as a bad case. 

@ztejas is exactly right and said what I was too afraid to say. Just an alien on both ends. Mets 92 is up 1-0 in the best of 5 semifinal. Do yourself a favor and watch one of the streamed games live(maybe mute the awful announcers). 

[Fastbreak 3,962]

I just saw a highlight where he blocked a shot at 19 feet, 10 feet and at the rim ON THE SAME PLAY. The rim block, he swatted out of bounds.

[Irieguy 1,059]

One more point. Wemby uses his ridiculous wingspan not just vertically but horizontally. When he’s 4 feet from the basket he can wrap around a defender with either hand for an easy layup. The picture below is from a rebound but it’s the same concept. The defender has to stay close so he just uses those freakishly long arms to get around them horizontally. 
 

[Kermit 3,136]

I finally started watching the Ring of the Rowel docuseries on YouTube. Great stuff, but goddamn they do Bob Hill dirty in the coaches section. Unless they cover his departure somewhere else in the 40 episodes. Good time wasting stuff.

 

 

[BurdineBandit 815]

18 hours ago, ztejas said:

So that Derrick White guy.

Was stoked to see his play last night. Encapsulates what he does well. Does everything well, but most importantly does it smart and plays hard. Wish his timeline matched up with ours, and damn I'd love to see him back after next year. Always thought he impacted the game in more and better ways than Dejounte.

[Patrick Bateman 3,910]

5 hours ago, BurdineBandit said:

Was stoked to see his play last night. Encapsulates what he does well. Does everything well, but most importantly does it smart and plays hard. Wish his timeline matched up with ours, and damn I'd love to see him back after next year. Always thought he impacted the game in more and better ways than Dejounte.

Speaking of Dejounte, when and why did he turn into such a dick?  That trade looks like a heist right now.  We'll see what it bears in fruit.