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NBA Playoffs 2023

ztejas

By ztejas
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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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Posted (edited)

I would also suggest that Derek fucking Fisher was about the level of the ghost of Kyle Lowry, who is the third best player for this Heat team. Simple stats don't tell the whole story but FWIW:

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Kyle Lowry has averaged 9.7 points, 4.5 assists and 2.8 rebounds in 13 games in the 2023 playoffs.

Derek Fisher averaged 8.0 points, 2.2 assists and 2.0 rebounds in 22 games in the 2009 playoffs.

Derek Fisher averaged 10.3 points, 2.8 assists and 2.5 rebounds in 23 games in the 2010 playoffs.

============

Pau Gasol averaged 19.6 points, 11.1 rebounds and 3.5 assists in 23 games in the 2010 playoffs.

Pau Gasol averaged 18.3 points, 10.8 rebounds and 2.5 assists in 23 games in the 2009 playoffs.

Bam Adebayo has averaged 18.5 points, 9.7 rebounds and 4.0 assists in 13 games in the 2023 playoffs.

source

And Odom was close to averaging a double double in 2009 while Ariza gave them 11 ppg shooting 48% from 3. Strus might be the closest comp to Ariza but he's hitting 10% lower on 3 balls and is nowhere near the level of defender Ariza was.

And Jimmy is matching Kobe's playoff numbers. 

Kobe 2009: 30.2/5.5/5.3 on splits of 48/35/88.

Butler 2023:  31.1/5.6/6.6 on splits of  55/37/81.

It's not just recency bias. Butler has really been that good in these playoffs. People keep wanting to point to career achievement, but that's not the consideration. In just this playoff season alone, Butler has been sublime despite playing with guys that don't get off the bench for just about any other playoff team. Bam obviously is the exception, but Lowry, who's getting 25 min/gm, is probably the 3rd guy off the bench at  best for Boston. And let's not forget great uncle Love getting almost 20 minutes per game to throw outlet passes and give fouls.

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Slacks

Slacks 6870

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7 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

It don't make a fuck if you score 30 but effectively none of it comes in crunch time. He still played well, and Jalen Brown is a bigger offender for sure, but he is the franchise player and if he stinks up the 4th quarter 2 games in a row, he deserves the criticism.

Russell Westbrook puts up numbers too, doesn't mean I want him on my playoff team.

So, last week, Tatum was great. Today, he's a bum. It doesn't matter if the rest of the team balls or not, or if he carries then so they even have a chance, he has to win the 4th. Got it. 

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Slacks

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6 hours ago, SilasCoade said:

Very surprised to see you doubling down on the Tatum love. I don't think anyone believes he sucks, but he is not that dude. Ain't nobody afraid of Tatum beating you in a close game down the stretch.

He's 24. How many dudes were That dude at 24? 

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Slacks

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4 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

 

I think there has been a bit of overreaction to my comment, which was just responding to the comment which basically said, "forget Kobe".

I said we should all enjoy what Butler is doing and can do so without denigrating one of the greatest players of all time. And Kobe is one of the greatest players of all time. Butler is having a great playoff run, this year and last but, he is a far far cry from doing what Jordan did over an extended period of time. 

Jordan averaged over 30 ppg in 27 of his 37 playoff series and 33.45 ppg in all of his playoff series. Kobe averaged over 30 ppg in 12 of his playoff series, and 25 ppg in 13 others. In his 20 playoff series Butler has averaged 25 ppg in six of those series. 

That's all I was pointing out. Jordan is first in all time playoff scoring average at 33.45 ppg. Luka is next, 32.54, then Iverson, 29.73 and then Durant, 29.39, then West at 29.13 and then LeBron, 28.43.

That's all I was saying. No need to dismiss Kobe, or any other player, to show support for what Butler is doing, and I very much enjoy what he is doing to Boston.

Respect. 

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Slacks

Slacks 6870

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3 hours ago, gofuckyourself said:

I hate the Lakers as much as anyone, but the recency bias and Kobe bias is off the charts up in here.

Some of y'all must have been 4 years old in the 2000s.

Skipping Kobe to put Butler as the only Jordan comp is going basketball full retard.

Let's pretend Kobe didn't power the 09 and 10 Lakers to championships.

So that's ignoring that they actually won the championships, aka every series. Butler hasn't won shit yet.

No Shaq. Gasol was good, but about the same as Bam number wise. Odom was ok. After that it was Ariza for maybe 10 a game and Bynum perpetually underachieving. Metta World Peace? Yeah, his 40% shooting and 50% FT were scaring teams.

So who carried those Laker teams? Derek fucking Fisher? Maybe Shannon Brown.

Go look at jusy the Suns series box scores. Monster games...same stage as Butler right now. 

The Heat have 7 guys averaging 10+ points in the playoffs with way more reliable shooters and players than Kobe had on his later teams. 

You can name the whole rotation for the Lakers from 14 years ago, and their HoF PF (who was only 'good')... and you're making a comparison to Bam Adebayo, old Kyle Lowry and who? 

Everyone knows Kobe was a monster. Everyone knows Butler is playing at that level, but with knows help most years. 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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1 hour ago, Slacks said:

He's 24. How many dudes were That dude at 24? 

Most of the greats honestly. I'm not talking about outcomes here necessarily, but being that dude means believing you're that dude which means taking the shots in the 4th quarter. Tatum is deferring in the 4th. Repeatedly.

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Reynolds Woodcock

Reynolds Woodcock 4804

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I think Tatum is going through his LeBron 2009-2011 playoff years. Obviously not as great of a player as LeBron, but similar in that some of the deference and attitude in the playoffs doesn't align to the talent. 
 

Still, if you set the over/under on .5 championships over the next 10 years with Tatum as the best player, I’m taking the over without thinking twice. Which is why I would love for him to leave Boston some day.

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Zeus

Zeus 6168

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12 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


My man’s gonna have to catch the red eye from LA to Miami tonight

Damn I guess he's the la fixer... 

Everyone wanted Boston v. LA but it's looking like Nugs vs. Heat.

I think the nuggets would destroy the fucking heat though I love Jimmy Butler but the nuggets have so many guys and actual defenders

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Kermit

Kermit 3159

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14 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

Mark Jackson wondering aloud if the nuggets are going to relax now that they have a 2-0 lead. yeah Mark. that's definitely the vibe that this te is exuding. 🙄 

 

Isn’t he just the bees knees?

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gofuckyourself

gofuckyourself 8386

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5 hours ago, ztejas said:

Yeah those were really solid runs by Kobe. Gasol was a good bit better than Bam, though. And Odom was a fucking baller, too.

Plus, the league was generally just not as talented back then. 

I don't know, maybe. Gasol was better but Bam is putting up similar numbers this playoff. And he's only 25. Odom was good, 10 and 10 pretty consistently, but not his old self even by this point.

Anyway, it's mostly futile to compare teams and players across generations. Offenses evolve. Rules change or are enforced differently. Athletes definitely improve with sports science and health and training way earlier. Plus international players now are vastly improved.

But no doubt Butler is consistently clutch. And fun as hell to watch dismantle the Celtics.

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Zeus

Zeus 6168

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Ok you were right D lo fucking sucks take him out and keep him out Jesus

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

The Lakers whistle has come out in force. Fuck me. How was that#4 on Jokic?

Do you even Scott Foster bro?

The equalizer is out

It's like comeback mode in blitz or NBA street

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Zeus

Zeus 6168

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1 minute ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Russell costing himself some money this series. 

Hope he goes to the wolves or bullets I never want to watch him play again he fucking sucks. 

I've seen games where he goes Steph curry and hits 3 threes in a row and then this wtf 

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Zeus

Zeus 6168

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1 minute ago, Fastbreak said:


Didn’t age well

Bruh I'm trying as hard as I can to hate LeBron and the Lakers but I just can't. I'm rooting for the underdog the whole way. Go Heat. If the heat are gonna win it all they have a chance against the Lakers but not the nuggets...

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