NBA Playoffs 2023

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

58 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I agree with everything that you said about him there in that sentence. My only push back (against everyone) is against the idea he is some uniquely terrible playoff guy.  He's good in the playoffs overall, probably. Which isn't what you want for a guy that has MVP's and HOF and is probably a top 50 player all time. You want great. Transcendent. He's not that. He's also not a choking bum who loses every year in the first round.  It usually takes until the 2nd round (like this year!) before he loses when he's the best player on the team.  Pair him with another legit star and maybe you get to round 3.  His best outcome might have been a super rich man's Manu Ginobli if he'd have stuck with KD at OKC- he was fucking awesome against the Spurs in 2012.  Then- Miami decided to let KD get his and focus all their attention on Harden as the X factor and shut him down- and that was a good hint of what would happen later in his career when teams geared themselves to stop him.

I expect Boston got lazy and with Embiid out tomorrow they completely and totally stifle him and he has another 5-18 with 7 TO type game- because he's not good enough to beat those guys by himself if he has their proper attention.

If we are being honest Joel Embiid hasn't exactly covered himself in glory in the post season, so even if he comes back and is relatively healthy I expect Boston to boat race them 4 of the next 5 nights and win in 6 games. 

Durant and Booker need to score 80 for them to win.  They will do that at least once, probably twice. I can't imagine them doing that 4 times in 7 games so yeah- proper fucked.    

 

The thing is, he is uniquely terrible.  And I'm really not even a Harden hater.  It's just he is what he is.  I'll leave this here but agree with Mitch, he's still got plenty of positives:

Harden, who entered Monday's game 1 for 12 (8.3%) on potential game-tying or go-ahead shots inside the final 24 seconds of a playoff game. 

Per CBS Sports research, that was the worst field goal percentage for any of the 29 players in the play-by-play era (1996-97) who have attempted at least seven such shots. 

At 15.3% (2 for 13), Harden moves from the worst to the fifth-worst percentage on game-tying or go-ahead playoff shots inside the final 24 seconds. Russell Westbrook is your new "leader" at 10% (1 for 10), followed by Carmelo Anthony at 12.5% (1 for 8), Jason Kidd and Jason Terry at 14.3% (1 for 7). 

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

29 minutes ago, ztejas said:

All their attention? Miami made sure that he didn't beat them the way he did the Spurs but Harden was straight up bad in that series. At the end of the day he was still the 3rd most dangerous player on that team. They weren't hiding shitty defenders on Kevin fucking Durant to keep the ball out of Harden's hands. 

I also expect him to play well again in G2. Not 45 and 7 3s good but his energy on this PHI team is a little different. He was really, really good this season before he got hurt. Granted PHI may punt G2 if they get down big. 

Miami was up front about saying that they game planned to stop Harden and not the other two guys. They didn't think they could get beat by KD and Russ alone and thought shutting Harden down was the key to winning that series. He was awful.  After being really really good against SA  

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

4 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

 

The thing is, he is uniquely terrible.  And I'm really not even a Harden hater.  It's just he is what he is.  I'll leave this here but agree with Mitch, he's still got plenty of positives:

Harden, who entered Monday's game 1 for 12 (8.3%) on potential game-tying or go-ahead shots inside the final 24 seconds of a playoff game. 

Per CBS Sports research, that was the worst field goal percentage for any of the 29 players in the play-by-play era (1996-97) who have attempted at least seven such shots. 

At 15.3% (2 for 13), Harden moves from the worst to the fifth-worst percentage on game-tying or go-ahead playoff shots inside the final 24 seconds. Russell Westbrook is your new "leader" at 10% (1 for 10), followed by Carmelo Anthony at 12.5% (1 for 8), Jason Kidd and Jason Terry at 14.3% (1 for 7). 

I think Kobe was something like 20% by that metric.  so- if he hits one more he goes shooting into the stratosphere and passes the Mamba!  

And- I had him better than Westbrook! 

[UpperWestside 6104]

11 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i i know a lot about who james harden is, and suffice to say, he's is not in love with basketball, to put it mildly.

Well his own words over the years have told that story before. His actions on the defensive end of the floor do as well. No one confuses him with a basketball-lifer or someone that remotely cares about the game. He puts in enough work to excel offensively and that allows him to keep strip clubs from coast-to-coast swimming in cash. 

[UpperWestside 6104]

2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I guess Brooks finally found a bear that did poke back. Couldn't happen to a bigger jackass. I wonder where he ends up. Nobody is going to pay $11M for a no 3 and D wing with a calling card for cheap shots and generally acting like an immature dick. With the way the NBA works, he probably ends up with the Lakers on a cheap deal and gets his shit together to become a true asset on a championship level team. And then signs a big contract that he never again lives up to.

@Wulaw Horn I'm just giving you shit about your never ending Harden crush. He is what he is. Hall of fame player. MVP. Scoring champ. Assist champ. Turnover champ. Titty bar champ.

Phoenix had zero depth before Chris Paul went out. Now? They are proper fucked. There's only so much Booker and Durant can do. Ayton actually played okay. Murray and Porter had bad nights and they still boat raced the Suns in the fourth quarter. Gotta give Denver's 4Q defense credit, but the Suns were essentially playing 2 on 5. Craig, Lee and Payne going 1-14 isn't going to cut it. That offense is so stagnant and one on one centric, I don't know how you ever even get those role guys into a rhythm. And who could have possibly imagined Chris Paul suffering some sort of random soft tissue leg injury in the playoffs? What are the odds? 

My bet is on Brooks either transitioning out of the NBA entirely for 2-3 years and winding up playing in China or Europe. If he stays stateside the team that takes him on has to have a strong culture with a veteran presence that will keep him in line. Miami could do that if Butler is willing to give him a shot. There won’t be much of a bidding war for a clown that just helped destroy his team’s season. Well he was a distant second to Ja and his family and friends horror show, but he was on the medal stand of reasons why things went south in Memphis.

Chris Paul is, well, I cannot help but LOL at him. I mean who would have thought that gutting your role players mid-season would have meant things would go sideways for Phoenix? Not that they were going well at the time, but teams with that little on the bench are just begging to be eliminated. Phoenix now has an aging scorer, albeit one of the best to ever do it, whatever people want to label Booker as and Ayton. Booker should never be more than your 2nd best player. With Durant a sure bet to miss 15-20 games a season going forward you can’t put the franchise on Booker’s shoulders. Ayton is what he is and that’s perfectly fine, but not at that salary. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by UpperWestside

[goatsaag 279]

How do people still exist who think Harden doesn't love basketball?

[Zeus 5943]

39 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

How do people still exist who think Harden doesn't love basketball?

Yeah I don't get that either. The way he can hit those clutch impossible to guard step back 3 point shots shows he's been working on his game for a long time. He's not the most physically gifted or quick guy he just knows how to shake guys and get to the rim and finish.

Just look at these first two shots wtf - 

 

[ztejas 43244]

1 hour ago, UpperWestside said:

Chris Paul is, well, I cannot help but LOL at him. I mean who would have thought that gutting your role players mid-season would have meant things would go sideways for Phoenix? Not that they were going well at the time, but teams with that little on the bench are just begging to be eliminated. Phoenix now has an aging scorer, albeit one of the best to ever do it, whatever people want to label Booker as and Ayton. Booker should never be more than your 2nd best player. With Durant a sure bet to miss 15-20 games a season going forward you can’t put the franchise on Booker’s shoulders. Ayton is what he is and that’s perfectly fine, but not at that salary. 

Barring a miracle Phoenix wasn't getting past Denver either way. I mean you just said Booker should never be your best player (which is silly - he's putting up 35 ppg in the playoffs) so I can only assume that you wouldn't have been high on them sans CP and KD plus Bridges and Cam Johnson - so what does the trade have to do with anything when it comes to their chances this season? They won in 5 in the first round and are down 2-0 against most likely the best team in the NBA right now. 

Their biggest issues as a franchise are Chris Paul being 38, Ayton being worth half of what he's paid, and Monty Williams being an average coach if not worse at times. NOT trading for Kevin Durant doesn't solve any of those issues. Trading for him makes the bench worse but it also gives you two elite scoring options. 

Their window with Booker/Ayton/CP was over either way. With Durant they can at least try and cut bait with one of those deals (or optimally with both of them) rework the supporting cast and try and get 2-3 years of contending ball out of Booker and KD. Their lack of depth is problematic in this series but so is their lack of chemistry and continuity. They're trying to figure out how to play together on the fly and Monty is not really figuring anything out on the fly despite his best efforts at throwing shit against the wall. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by ztejas

[shadow_operative 15931]

1 hour ago, Zeus said:

Yeah I don't get that either. The way he can hit those clutch impossible to guard step back 3 point shots shows he's been working on his game for a long time. He's not the most physically gifted or quick guy he just knows how to shake guys and get to the rim and finish.

Just look at these first two shots wtf - 

 

don't confuse showing up to work with loving the game. i know for a fact that james harden is in the bottom tier of "give a fuck" for nba players. put it like this: if he  had PJ Tucker's skill set coming out of college his career minutes played in the nba would be zero. 

[ztejas 43244]

Once we finish another James Harden career retrospective I'd like to cover these other topics again:

- KD's decision to join Golden State

- LeBron vs. MJ

- Ewers vs. Card

[closetohumping 17380]

Don't know shit about their cap situation, but Phoenix needs like 3 more rotational guys.  The four guys they have that can play are getting worn.  IDC if two of them are young.  

[conVINCEd 21468]

9 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Don't know shit about their cap situation, but Phoenix needs like 3 more rotational guys.  The four guys they have that can play are getting worn.  IDC if two of them are young.  

They have 4 guys on max deals.  Cap situation is probably not very good.

[Vic Mackey 46919]

Once we finish another James Harden career retrospective I'd like to cover these other topics again:
- KD's decision to join Golden State
- LeBron vs. MJ
- Ewers vs. Card

Applewhite vs Simms

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Lame. Ian Eagle instead of Kevin Harlan in the garden…they’re probably using him for warriors lakers eh?

[UpperWestside 6104]

I would want Harlan on the marquee game in San Francisco.

[UpperWestside 6104]

Good on Embiid on winning the MVP. There really wasn’t a wrong choice. 

[UpperWestside 6104]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

They have 4 guys on max deals.  Cap situation is probably not very good.

It’ll take some creative maneuvering to add talent with where they stand cap-wise. It will be two years before they can overhaul the roster if this incarnation does not get them over the hump. 

[Brothahorn 10085]

Julius Randal might be the most overhyped 'star' of the modern era. He is good and at times damn good. But he is not that guy. And too damn big to just go stand in the corner waiting to shoot a 3.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Brothahorn

[SilasCoade 2620]

27 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Good on Embiid on winning the MVP. There really wasn’t a wrong choice. 

Not a wrong choice but jokic was still the better choice by advanced statistics. In most cases by a lot. But voter fatigue is clearly a thing and Joel is deserving.

[ztejas 43244]

Knicks struggling at home against MIA with no Butler or Herro. 

How bad really was Cleveland in the first round? 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Wow Spo needed to challenge that shot clock violation

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

How cool is it seeing these old Knicks players from the 90s? Kurt and Tim Thomas? Looks like Amare Stoudemire is there, they just showed Marcus Camby


MSG needs a game 7 this series

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Jesus what a beautiful 3 pter by Duncan Robinson

[LTtxfan 48928]

Knicks with 8pt lead less than a minute left... Lol they might not win 😂😂😂

[ztejas 43244]

I'm glad NYK won. I would have begun questioning my own existence if Miami went up 2-0 on the road without Jimmy. 

[Brothahorn 10085]

I can now go back to hating Lebron.

 

Going to enjoy watching Looney and Davis.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Brothahorn

[PittsburghTiger 6136]

It’s time to put an end to the powder in the air before the game.

That shot with James and the empty plastic bottle was pretty bad with the TV crew standing there with its collective thumb up its ass waiting for the powder theater was not a good look.

I can’t keep track of all the Golden State uniforms

[PittsburghTiger 6136]

If they can have old Klay Thompson and really good Curry they should win it all.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

DLo had a great last game so expect his next 3 to be duds

[ztejas 43244]

8 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

I can now go back to hating Lebron.

 

Going to enjoy watching Looney and Davis.

I can't decide who I want to lose this series. I just need Denver to beat the winner. 

I think I want the Lakers to win? 

Edited May 3, 2023 by ztejas

[Blotto 23418]

8 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

I can now go back to hating Lebron.

 

Going to enjoy watching Looney and Davis.

There's a lot going on these days, but not enough to cause me to ever stop hating Lebron. Hopefully GS cooks them in 4

[Brothahorn 10085]

Amazing how good GS is considering they start two guys you don't have to guard.

[Blotto 23418]

I've seen a lot of good shooters in my days, but the gap between Curry and everyone else is significant. 

[shadow_operative 15931]

what a first half.

[Brothahorn 10085]

Okay, I see why Draymond hit Poole. 

[Baboontyme 2807]

This rebounding battle between AD and Loon is insane. Insane. I love it. Watch these two fight under the basket. 

[conVINCEd 21468]

32 minutes ago, Blotto said:

I've seen a lot of good shooters in my days, but the gap between Curry and everyone else is significant. 

If Curry manages to drag this motley crew to another title he moves into top 5 all-time territory.

[BigOrange1 6416]

i can't figure out which team it's good for and which team it's bad for that the lakers have a 1 point lead despite being outscored 39-3 from behind the arc.

[PittsburghTiger 6136]

3 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

i can't figure out which team it's good for and which team it's bad for that the lakers have a 1 point lead despite being outscored 39-3 from behind the arc.

30 3-pt attempts for the Warriors.  I think they have made 13.  Over half of their shot attempts have been 3s.

I agree, I’m not sure whom that stat you mentioned favors

[Vic Mackey 46919]

Chris Paul has a left groin strain and is listed as day to day for games 3 and 4.

[Baboontyme 2807]

Ohhh don't do that Junior Glove. Don't poke the bear. 

[Dutchrudder 11103]

Draymond is such a whiny bitch. 

[Zeus 5943]

Draymond jumping into people, flopping, arguing, and not shutting the fuck up and playing basketball per usual. Just give him a second T and get him the fuck out. 

They always give him one then let him just do whatever he wants the rest of the game because they are scared to toss em.

[Dutchrudder 11103]

Draymond literally pushed a guy to the ground to "pick" Curry's defender, but then the makeup call on the other end fixed it. 

[JGrayDBU 334]

down by only 8, good TO by Lakers, the next 2 minutes is the last best chance for GS.

[shadow_operative 15931]

poole tryna earn that contract.

[BigOrange1 6416]

sweet jesus

[shadow_operative 15931]

my god, steph never ceases to amaze. wow!

[Marshall_Lucky 624]

 

[Dutchrudder 11103]

Missed 8 second violation on Steph there...