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could you make 10 consecutive 3-pointers?


52-80

could you make 10 consecutive 3-pointers?  

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  1. 1. Would you take the bet?



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you’re given 1 year window in which to make 10 consecutive NBA regulation 3-pointers. at any pace you wish (eg 1 completion a day). 

you could make as many attempts as you want to. 

you win $10,000 if you do it. lose $10,000 if you dont. would you take the bet?

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10 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

I'm not devoting the amount of time necessary to develop that skill level for only $10k.

Give me 100-1 or better odds and I might take the bet. 

If you could make each shot at a 63% clip, you have 100-to-1 odds. 
 

At 50% clip, it’s 1000-to-1. 

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I lose $10,000 if I don't? So - like @Prepuce of Doom said - I have to invest hundreds of hours shooting just to not LOSE 10 grand? Seems like not a good use of my time.

I mean if I spent 5 hours a week shooting for a year I could probably hit 10 straight corner triples at some point. If we're talking from somewhere on the arc then I'm honestly not sure. NBA 3s are so fucking deep unless you're in the corner. 

Most people here (I mean, most people in general) couldn't hit 10 free throws in a row. 

Edited by ztejas
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52 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Most people here (I mean, most people in general) couldn't hit 10 free throws in a row. 

Ill take the bet on free throws. I wouldnt win it this week. But with $1000 for coaching and 100 shots a night I could probably hit it in a few months. 
 

Im wondering where the threshold is for the original bet. Probably anyone on the Texas/tourney squad can do it (no live game pressure). Or a starting varsity guard in a large high school.

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22 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Probably anyone on the Texas/tourney squad can do it (no live game pressure). Or a starting varsity guard in a large high school.

Again - are we talking corner or on the arc? 98% of HS basketball players in America cannot hit 10 straight 24 foot 3s if you just went and knocked on their door and asked them to come to the gym. And that's being generous. My little brother was one of the best players in Austin his senior season and there's no fucking way he could go out there and hit 10 straight from 24 feet. 

Most players are never going to practice shooting from that deep. I was a good pickup shooter for awhile - like someone that got labeled a shooter at gyms - but I was good from 19-20 feet. If I was going to the gym to shoot I wasn't going to shoot from 25 feet. 

The drop-off between those distances is exponential for guys that aren't getting up shots that deep in workouts. 

Consider that the NBA record for consecutive 3 pointers made is 13. Sure that's during games but those are NBA level shooters. 

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I think this hypothetical needs some odds like 20/1. $500 buys you the chance to win $10k if you do it within a year. If you take even a minute to think about the chances as stated in the OP Kevin would be your only taker in between fighting mountain lions.

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Again - are we talking corner or on the arc? 98% of HS basketball players in America cannot hit 10 straight 24 foot 3s if you just went and knocked on their door and asked them to come to the gym.

Consider that the NBA record for consecutive 3 pointers made is 13. Sure that's during games but those are NBA level shooters. 

You’re thinking of an on-the-spot, single attempt.

Im talking about unlimited attempts, at any pace, over the course of a year.

6’10” ben simmons is notoriously gun shy shooter with 14% career stat but he bangs them in during warmups - theres a vid of him getting 8 straight.  He needs to hit each shot at 75% rate for a 1/10 chance of getting that string of completions.

My point is, if you make a decent rate in-game, you’ve got to be *multiple times* better than that in a calm setting. 

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10 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

You’re thinking of an on-the-spot, single attempt.

Im talking about unlimited attempts, at any pace, over the course of a year.

6’10” ben simmons is notoriously gun shy shooter with 14% career stat but he bangs them in during warmups - theres a vid of him getting 8 straight.  He needs to hit each shot at 75% rate for a 1/10 chance of getting that string of completions.

My point is, if you make a decent rate in-game, you’ve got to be *multiple times* better than that in a calm setting. 

I understand the question perfectly, thanks.

So - Simmons didn't hit 10 in a row - and it was from the corner. And despite how shitty he is at shooting 3s relative to NBA players he's still probably shot thousands more NBA 3s than any poster here.

"If you make a decent rate in game"

Who the fuck in here has ever made nba length 3s at a decent rate at any level of competition? 

I think what you need to do is find a court, measure out 23'9" from the front of the rim going straight back and then start shooting. 

This is from my brother. 

Screenshot_20230416_113413_Message.thumb.jpg.73de1d22c047b6b6581207fcf4b8f5d2.jpg

 

Edited by ztejas
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7 minutes ago, blacklab said:

some poker pros made a similar bet on free throws

Their bet was he could hit 90/100 free throws. He had unlimited retries and had a year to do it. He did it after a few months.

Won $285k

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/25282-high-stakes-poker-pro-mike-mcdonald-wins-250k-on-free-throw-prop-bet

I could do the free throw thing.  No doubt.  The 10 3 bet?  I don’t think so 

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Another example - one of my best friends growing up played for 4-5 years at various levels in college. He's now playing in England.

He could definitely do this. But he's been shooting 3s at an extremely high volume in workouts for over a decade - and has been shooting at NBA distance* probably going back to when he was ~19. That's the amount of work that it takes to get to that level. 

Edited by ztejas
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18 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I understand the question perfectly, thanks.

So - Simmons didn't hit 10 in a row - and it was from the corner. And despite how shitty he is at shooting 3s relative to NBA players he's still probably shot thousands more NBA 3s than any poster here.

"If you make a decent rate in game"

Who the fuck in here has ever made nba length 3s at a decent rate at any level of competition? 

Aint taking about you bub. Talking about the threshold guys like D1 ballers who could/should do it. 

My friend never played college. Was shooting 25-33% in-game during UT Intramural. Its bottom of the barrel competition yes, but would you bet against him shooting by himself in an empty gym with all the time in the world?

What sparked my question was this clip of Lil Dicky (from years before his fame).  Only played HS and rec.  Sure it caught him in a pure streak of luck, but it was also spontaneously capture, not from 100s of days of takes.  Would you bet against him? Should he bet on himself?

 

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That Lil Dickey clip is crazy!

But like others have said, I can't be bothered to care or put in the time for 10k. The opportunity cost is massive. I won't get out of bed for less than a chance to win a $100k for a premise like this, and if I am risking $100k and not just have the upside of $100k, no way.

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On 4/16/2023 at 12:18 PM, 52-80 said:

but would you bet against him shooting by himself in an empty gym with all the time in the world?

What sparked my question was this clip of Lil Dicky (from years before his fame).  Only played HS and rec.  Sure it caught him in a pure streak of luck, but it was also spontaneously capture, not from 100s of days of takes.  Would you bet against him? Should he bet on himself?

Yes - I would bet against him unless he spent hours upon hours for multiple weeks in a row shooting NBA length 3s. That's why we're weighing out the value proposition, because almost no one can just show up at a gym some weekend and do this. 

Lil Dicky hit 4 from HS length in that clip - maybe slightly extended - then he hit 4 from around NBA length. 

It becomes exponentially harder to hit x+1 all the way up to 10. Say he's an absolute fucking killer from 3 in pick up games (which I don't think he is judging by that layup attempt) and shoots 50% whenever he shoots from 24 feet unguarded. That would give him a 1/16 chance of hitting 4 straight and a 1/1,024 chance of hitting 10 straight. 

I've already conceded that I know people that could do this and people that could do this if you gave them a year. 

Most people could not accomplish this in a year. Then there's a lot of people that potentially could who it wouldn't be worth the time for. 

This isn't some impossible task but it's much more difficult than you're giving it credit for. 

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2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Most people could not accomplish this in a year. Then there's a lot of people that potentially could who it wouldn't be worth the time for. 

This isn't some impossible task but it's much more difficult than you're giving it credit for. 

1. Do you think Alief HS’ starting guard (no idea who), or Texas’ tallest player Dylan Disu couldn’t achieve this within a year, especially motivated by 10k?

(theyre already practicing year round anyway).

 

2. Do you think they, or atleast 1 person from a rec league, is capable of shooting 60% in a focused setting?

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What im suggesting is if youre shooting 30% in a live game, you’re probably making 50% in warmups at rhythm, and if you’re doing that, you can make 60%+ slowly and methodically.  

And if you can do that, by lobbing up merely 10 shots a night, probabilistically you can hit that streak in less than a year, without any extended attempts or preparation. Texas’ PF can do it. Anyone on Iowa State or WVU who isnt an absolute oaf can do it. Thats what im suggesting as the threshold. 

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This is the most ridiculous comment I’ve ever made on surly, which is saying something, but somehow I have this inner belief I could do it. I don’t know why. The math and data certainly says otherwise, but I think I could figure out a way, if the financial incentive were good enough.

First thing I’d do is develop a completely nonsensical new shot optimized for a three pointer, probably from the top of the key range. 

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I think 10 in a row is doable given a year to do it with unlimited retries.  go corner NBA three and keep at it.  i think i could do it in a week if that was all that was on my plate.  not humble brag but more csb, during my time on the 40 acres i remember hitting 27 in a row from (then) college range before they moved it back when just screwing around in Belmont gym.  Another guy was counting and passing the ball back out.  getting to fine-tune your shot from an exact spot on the floor and then repeating the process until you made 10 in a row would happen at some point certainly given a year to do it.  but i was a bball junkie that would just see how many 3s I could make out of 200 for fun instead of studying.  even wasting enough time to teach myself to shoot with my offhand at a decent clip.  total babe-magnet, i know...

as to the math side of it, if one had a great shot, say hitting 80% of unguarded 3s in practice, then the probability is ~10% of hitting 10 in a row.  

 

E(X)=np --> n(0.1)=10 --> n=100  you could knock out 100 10-shot trials in a day

if your make chance was 50% n= 10,300 tries.  103K shots (well less than that assuming you quit your 10-shot trial after a miss and immediately started a new one).  500 shots a day (50 trials) should give you plenty of time to get it done within a year.  never mind that even a novice would start to master the same shot at the same distance if shooting it over and over again for 2/3 of a year and raise their make % as time went on.

make chance = 20% then n= 97,656,250 and you are probably going to be there a while as you would need to put up just shy of 12K shots per hour and not sleep for a year.  But as stated in the 50% example, if you could raise your make % from 20% to 50%  before 150 days had passed then it should be possible to still do it.  I think the 50% example was ~200 days at 500 shots per day.

humans are pretty good at getting better at a repetitive task given enough time.  just look at how badly OU sucks and how stupid aggy is after all these years

 

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i screwed up the math i think in the above post. 

mess-up-mundane-detail.gif

it should be even easier.  there is another way to look at with a Gamm Dist and calculate the % probability of something happening to a certain conf. level.  I found an online calc and for a 95% probability of success an 80% shooter would need ~30 tries

image.png.4bfbd1117534d56758ab2c5e83f4350e.png

 

20% shooter would need 30,000,000 (not 97MM)

image.png.03be6c30fa7e266a044a436260c461b2.png

 

and a 50% shooter would need ~3100 trials to have a 95% probability of hitting 10 in a row

dumb-and-dumber-lloyd.gif

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2 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

This is the most ridiculous comment I’ve ever made on surly, which is saying something, but somehow I have this inner belief I could do it. I don’t know why. The math and data certainly says otherwise, but I think I could figure out a way, if the financial incentive were good enough.

First thing I’d do is develop a completely nonsensical new shot optimized for a three pointer, probably from the top of the key range. 

 

47 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

i screwed up the math i think in the above post. 

mess-up-mundane-detail.gif

it should be even easier.  there is another way to look at with a Gamm Dist and calculate the % probability of something happening to a certain conf. level.  I found an online calc and for a 95% probability of success an 80% shooter would need ~30 tries

image.png.4bfbd1117534d56758ab2c5e83f4350e.png

 

20% shooter would need 30,000,000 (not 97MM)

image.png.03be6c30fa7e266a044a436260c461b2.png

 

and a 50% shooter would need ~3100 trials to have a 95% probability of hitting 10 in a row

dumb-and-dumber-lloyd.gif

 

Right now, I'm probably less than a 20% three point shooter. But if you are shooting thousands of shots a week, you get better.

If I can get 100 to one odds (Say I bet 10 K, payout 1 million), I would take that bet.

 

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3 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

Right now, I'm probably less than a 20% three point shooter. But if you are shooting thousands of shots a week, you get better.

If I can get 100 to one odds (Say I bet 10 K, payout 1 million), I would take that bet.

 

I’m just going to make sure I take 30,000,000 shots in 364 days, or 82,417 a day, or 5151 shots per hour in the 16 waking hours, or 85 shots per minute. I’ll hire three people to chase down basketballs, and start with a rack of 20, shooting two at a time with a half second difference in release between them. Should be no problem. 

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5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I’m just going to make sure I take 30,000,000 shots in 364 days, or 82,417 a day, or 5151 shots per hour in the 16 waking hours, or 85 shots per minute. I’ll hire three people to chase down basketballs, and start with a rack of 20, shooting two at a time with a half second difference in release between them. Should be no problem. 

 

hmm, maybe I should have done the math.

 

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3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

1. Do you think Alief HS’ starting guard (no idea who), or Texas’ tallest player Dylan Disu couldn’t achieve this within a year, especially motivated by 10k?

(theyre already practicing year round anyway).

 

2. Do you think they, or atleast 1 person from a rec league, is capable of shooting 60% in a focused setting?

Dude... when I say "most people" I'm not talking about the best shooter at a good rec league or good shooters playing D1 basketball. Obviously those guys could do this in a year if they tried. 

There are absolutely rec leagues or pick up gyms where you'd be hard pressed to find a guy that could hit 60% from anywhere on the arc. Have you ever shot an NBA 3 pointer? 

1 hour ago, gyroprotagonist said:

go corner NBA three and keep at it.

Yeah if you're allowed to shoot from the corner it's much easier. 

1 hour ago, gyroprotagonist said:

E(X)=np --> n(0.1)=10 --> n=100  you could knock out 100 10-shot trials in a day

if your make chance was 50% n= 10,300 tries.  103K shots (well less than that assuming you quit your 10-shot trial after a miss and immediately started a new one).  500 shots a day (50 trials) should give you plenty of time to get it done within a year.  never mind that even a novice would start to master the same shot at the same distance if shooting it over and over again for 2/3 of a year and raise their make % as time went on.

make chance = 20% then n= 97,656,250 and you are probably going to be there a while as you would need to put up just shy of 12K shots per hour and not sleep for a year.  But as stated in the 50% example, if you could raise your make % from 20% to 50%  before 150 days had passed then it should be possible to still do it.  I think the 50% example was ~200 days at 500 shots per day.

Couple issues here. First, ain't no one on this board getting up 500 NBA 3s in a day without their arms and legs being on fire the next couple days. Let alone 500 every day for a year. That's an insane workload that requires a lot of specific muscles that aren't conditioned unless you're already shooting a bunch of 3s. That's like saying, "assuming you run 10 miles a day every day for a year".

Also, the idea that a "novice" (i.e. someone with little shooting experience) would start to master hitting NBA 3s with a regulation ball within a few months seems a bit dubious to me. I find it highly unlikely joe schmo in his 40s that hasn't shot a basketball in 20 years and was never a good shooter to begin with is going to start hitting 50% after half a year of training. Some people just fucking suck at basketball, and if they aren't in shape or athletic at all to begin with I'm not giving them much of a chance. 

I'd also assume that there would be a pretty special distribution for hitting x 3 pointers in a row - especially if you're doing it for $10,000 with a witness. That 7th, 8th, 9th make is going to be harder than the 2nd one. Humans aren't robots. 

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Similar vein, I was thinking about a halftime free-throw contest were you have the ability to make up to $100,000, with the amount won going up for every shot hit.

So make one shot, earn $1. Make two in a row, and you get $10, and so on... Miss a shot, and game over.

$1
$10
$100
$250
$500
$1,000
$5,000
$10,000
$50,000
$100,000

I'd think that would be ridiculously fun to watch and be much more memorable and a production for an advertiser than a single half-court shot. And I'd bet the ability for a random participant to make 8-10 free throws in a row is pretty low. Then you can always insure against the big prizes.

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8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Dude... when I say "most people" I'm not talking about the best shooter at a good rec league or good shooters playing D1 basketball. Obviously those guys could do this in a year if they tried.

Most people will never be able to do this (I certainly wouldnt).  I would put up many many dollar digits on a bet for that.

This thread was a fun poll to see who think *they* can, with a subsequent question of who *we* think can -- for me, thats still starting guard on a big HS, or pretty much any player/position on NCAA68 roster.

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2 hours ago, gyroprotagonist said:

as to the math side of it, if one had a great shot, say hitting 80% of unguarded 3s in practice, then the probability is ~10% of hitting 10 in a row. 

the other fun thing to chew on around this topic is, how fucking insane was it for steph curry to have done this

 

even for the greatest shooter in history, the sheer mathematical improbability of hitting 105 straight is bonkers.  what does that imply as his percentage when he's not having to to shoot it non-stop?  other Q is, ignoring fatigue, is it actually easier for him to shoot in constant rhythm like this as opposed to slowly recomposing himself after each shot?

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39 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

There's no one guarding you, so you could get pretty good at lobbing them up underhanded in a year's time if you put the time in. But I'm too lazy to put the time in.

I wonder if underhand would be better. I feel like you wouldn't have enough control to hit 10 straight. Maybe a better option if you weren't a good shooter to begin with. 

25 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

the other fun thing to chew on around this topic is, how fucking insane was it for steph curry to have done this

 

even for the greatest shooter in history, the sheer mathematical improbability of hitting 105 straight is bonkers.  what does that imply as his percentage when he's not having to to shoot it non-stop?  other Q is, ignoring fatigue, is it actually easier for him to shoot in constant rhythm like this as opposed to slowly recomposing himself after each shot?

Psssh. Nothing compared to this. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I wonder if underhand would be better. I feel like you wouldn't have enough control to hit 10 straight. Maybe a better option if you weren't a good shooter to begin with. 

Psssh. Nothing compared to this. 

 

 

Underhand would lead to less fatigue, allowing you to practice longer and more consistently, imo.

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Couple issues here. First, ain't no one on this board getting up 500 NBA 3s in a day without their arms and legs being on fire the next couple days. Let alone 500 every day for a year. That's an insane workload that requires a lot of specific muscles that aren't conditioned unless you're already shooting a bunch of 3s. That's like saying, "assuming you run 10 miles a day every day for a year".

again, i am biased, but 500 shots a day seems like a piece of cake (if that's the only thing on the agenda).  but for someone that has not touched a ball in years or is completely out of shape, then maybe it would take a 2-3 weeks to get to that point.  doing an actual 3-point competition using racks of balls is really very tiring trying to get all the shots off before the buzzer, but if you were to treat each 3 like a free throw and take 20 seconds between shots that is under 3 hours of time to get it done.

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Also, the idea that a "novice" (i.e. someone with little shooting experience) would start to master hitting NBA 3s with a regulation ball within a few months seems a bit dubious to me. I find it highly unlikely joe schmo in his 40s that hasn't shot a basketball in 20 years and was never a good shooter to begin with is going to start hitting 50% after half a year of training. Some people just fucking suck at basketball, and if they aren't in shape or athletic at all to begin with I'm not giving them much of a chance. 

If the hypothetical is that rando person keeps their 9-5, can only sneak off a 1-2 hours a day to practice, then yeah.  if this person can suspend their life to train, maybe even use a coach, then I think 50% unguarded (from the corner) is achievable.  the mechanical act of shooting a basketball by yourself with no defense is not that hard to learn and improve on (Rick Barnes coached teams shooting their FTs excluded)

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I'd also assume that there would be a pretty special distribution for hitting x 3 pointers in a row - especially if you're doing it for $10,000 with a witness. That 7th, 8th, 9th make is going to be harder than the 2nd one. Humans aren't robots. 

I don't think there would be that much added pressure if you got to 7 in a row with 250 days to go.  if you are down to the last week or so then yeah, most would probably channel their inner Brett Maher under the pressure.

 

Edited by gyroprotagonist
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3 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Underhand would lead to less fatigue, allowing you to practice longer and more consistently, imo.

This is true. 

Rick Barry was great from the FT line going underhand. Just not sure it would work particularly well from much further out. 

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I'm an old, $10K doesn't move the needle.

Make it win-a-Million or lose-a-Million and I'm in.   I'd hire a shooting coach for $10K a month and do it full time.

With nobody guarding you and unlimited attempts, a streak of ten isn't really that many.  I'd expect any reasonably athletic guy who played some basketball to knock it out in 2 or 3 months.

On the other hand, doing 10 in a row on-demand like in a 3-pt contest, would probably be beyond most people.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, gyroprotagonist said:

i screwed up the math i think in the above post. 

mess-up-mundane-detail.gif

it should be even easier.  there is another way to look at with a Gamm Dist and calculate the % probability of something happening to a certain conf. level.  I found an online calc and for a 95% probability of success an 80% shooter would need ~30 tries

image.png.4bfbd1117534d56758ab2c5e83f4350e.png

 

20% shooter would need 30,000,000 (not 97MM)

image.png.03be6c30fa7e266a044a436260c461b2.png

 

and a 50% shooter would need ~3100 trials to have a 95% probability of hitting 10 in a row

dumb-and-dumber-lloyd.gif

Star Wars GIF

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I went to a basketball camp when I was 8 or so and learned proper form and whatnot. I was fascinated with being able to shoot a three-pointer. I remember hitting my first two attempts in the 5th grade in a game because we were losing and no one else was hitting anything so I figure why not? 
 

I used to sit in the gym for hours in my 20’s and very early 30’s just shooting because I enjoyed it. I could have done it then, but it would have taken awhile to pull off. I remember one time as a teenager lining it up from one of the volleyball lines and hitting 12 in a row. I had someone passing the ball back to me though so I wasn’t wasting time chasing the ball and losing rhythm.

Now after years of not playing I’d be lucky to hit the broadside of a barn. Too much muscle mass lost and it’s just not easy to pull off unless you want to tactics for hours upon hours week after week.

 

 

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All of the calculations underestimate the likelihood of a repetitive stress injury on our old man elbows and shoulders. I don’t think I could put up the necessary number of shots every day for long enough to get a lucky streak before my body broke down.

Edited by Mole
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If I was able to work on this full time for a year I could do this, doing it in my spare time around work and kids would be impossible.  In a year working on this full time would mean that the first 3 months I would be working on my shooting form and getting into much better physical shape so that my body could handle the physical demand of putting up 1,000+ shots a days.  Then it would mostly be just shoot until I made it happen.  Corner three would be easier because of the distance.  It would help that I played basketball when younger and I’m in my 30s instead of 50+.

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