Black Teenager Shot for Ringing Wrong Doorbell

[Bevo 13590]

12 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Whenever I hear something outside I always go check it out. 

Shit, we never answer the door because it is always solicitors.

[Brian Fantana 6689]

4 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

We’ve lost the sense of community and a shared understanding that helped to heuristically give us a short hand of threats. With the rise of mental illness and mass shootings and the impersonal nature of most modern neighborhoods, you just don’t have the quick assurance of green and red flags when you hear gunshots and see bloody people.

People defaulting to “my great grandpappy woulda kindly helped his Christian neighbor after being shot by those savage Comanches so what’s wrong with us today in society!!” are being unfair, IMO.

You had to go through like half a dozen handles before you posted in even a half-civilized manner so I'm not sure you're not part of the problem, bub!

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

You had to go through like half a dozen handles before you posted in even a half-civilized manner so I'm not sure you're not part of the problem, bub!

Ehhhh. Not sure I agree with your police work Lou. But that’s a convo for another day.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Shit, we never answer the door because it is always solicitors.

The evangelicals are the absolute worst. Get the fuck out of here and take your Bible with you.

Two women came to the door last weekend a few minutes before we were about to head to a school event with our girls. I opened thinking they needed help with something. In Spanish the older one tells me they have been talking with all the neighbors about how these days we have forgotten about our lord Jesus Christ. Right then my hellhound poked her big ass head out the door and she jumped behind the other women. That made me happy.

I am not buying windows or bullshit religion at my front door, so kindly fuck off.

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

34 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Well, except there are actually some monsters under the bed, evidenced by multiple threads of people shooting others for existing in their general vicinity. One could argue that guns and gun culture have created a vicious cycle where we feel less safe, get more guns, and in turn become less safe. 

If someone shows up at my doorstep bleeding profusely, I can’t imagine it ever occurring to me that I might be at risk. If that puts me in danger, so be it. I’ll take my chances. I think the odds are overwhelmingly in my favor here. That person probably really needs help.

I didn’t look through all of your anecdotal evidence you linked as counter examples. You embedded one video. I saw something significant missing...

Notice the conspicuous absence of blood flowing from an open wound in that woman’s head. That doesn’t apply here. Sure, I’ve seen A Clockwork Orange. This isn’t that. Did any of those examples involve someone bleeding all over themselves as part of their ruse? If not then they’re not relevant. 

[gmr548 16590]

We’re so fucking scared, we shoot and kill strangers who mistakenly pull into our driveways. We assume everything is a conspiracy. We’re afraid of monsters under the bed. 

I mean, you have to be keeping your gun very close and accessible at all times and be really looking for trouble to shoot someone who had the audacity to ring your doorbell or turn around in your driveway.

There are monsters out there, molded by years of FOX News brain rot; and while they obviously don’t get out much they’re not exactly under the bed.

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

Just now, gmr548 said:

I mean, you have to be keeping your gun very close and accessible at all times and be really looking for trouble to shoot someone who had the audacity to ring your doorbell or turn around in your driveway.

There are monsters out there, molded by years of FOX News brain rot; and while they obviously don’t get out much they’re not exactly under the bed.

“Monsters under the bed” is an expression. It means things that are extremely unlikely. It means that just because there is the slimmest, slightest, most remote chance that there might actually be a monster under our bed, we can’t go through life assuming there is. That’s no way to live. 

[Dahobbs 17627]

42 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

If someone shows up at my doorstep bleeding profusely, I can’t imagine it ever occurring to me that I might be at risk. If that puts me in danger, so be it. I’ll take my chances. I think the odds are overwhelmingly in my favor here. That person probably really needs help.

I didn’t look through all of your anecdotal evidence you linked as counter examples. You embedded one video. I saw something significant missing...

Notice the conspicuous absence of blood flowing from an open wound in that woman’s head. That doesn’t apply here. Sure, I’ve seen A Clockwork Orange. This isn’t that. Did any of those examples involve someone bleeding all over themselves as part of their ruse? If not then they’re not relevant. 

The first link is about folks pretending to be injured to lure in would be victims. There are other similar links in the list. I grant you that this particular one doesn't feature injury, but that hardly invalidates the notion that there is some danger answering the door here. 

Also, I already said I agree that if I could tell that he was actually injured and needed help, I would do so. I just think you're assuming a lot of knowledge that isn't clear any of the neighbors had when you're suggesting they should have known to help. 

For instance, I have no idea if I could tell at night whether he was bleeding or not. And even if I saw blood, I don't know that would obvious that it was his. Gunshots in the middle of the night followed by a knock on the door would raise most people's defenses. It seems to me that y'all are imagining some situation where the person is clearly, and severely injured and lying defenseless on the ground while bleeding out. It doesn't sound like that matches the fact pattern here since he went to multiple neighbors.

A possible scenario is that multiple gunshots ring out, waking/disturbing the neighbor. Moments later this is knocking at the door and someone yelling. We don't know if the neighbors had good lighting on their porch or a doorbell camera. While the victim was looking for help, his understandable panic may have sounded more aggressive rather than desperate. All sorts of different factors may have played out to prevent many of the neighbors from having a clear understanding of what was happening. The fog of war is a bitch. This 20/20 hindsight analysis doesn't factor any of that in. 

I get it. Y'all want to appear to be big strong men who aren't afraid of anything and laugh at the girly folks who dare approach with caution. You want to be better than the neighbors in the story to make yourselves feel better. But I think you're doing a real disservice to the truly brave woman who proceeded to help despite being told to wait inside by the 911 operator. She took a risk going outside, and that is pretty fucking impressive. Diminishing that by pretending no danger existed is a real asshole move. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Dahobbs

[You don't know me 1161]

I had a black gentleman, approximately 30 years old, knock on my door on Saturday.  I also live in Missouri.  Was I supposed to shoot him?  He CLAIMED to be from Ameren and installed a smart meter.  I'm now wondering if that was a ruse.

[hookemATL 11803]

25 minutes ago, You don't know me said:

I had a black gentleman, approximately 30 years old, knock on my door on Saturday.  I also live in Missouri.  Was I supposed to shoot him?  He CLAIMED to be from Ameren and installed a smart meter.  I'm now wondering if that was a ruse.

It’s too late now. He has your wife and your kids love rap music. Apologies for your losses. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

29 minutes ago, You don't know me said:

I had a black gentleman, approximately 30 years old, knock on my door on Saturday.  I also live in Missouri.  Was I supposed to shoot him?  He CLAIMED to be from Ameren and installed a smart meter.  I'm now wondering if that was a ruse.

0.0% chance I’m doing a door to door job if I’m black.

 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

All of this could have been avoided had the kid had the presence of mind to yell "I'm a Nigerian prince and I need your help!" While knocking on the door.

[SamsCorner 395]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

0.0% chance I’m doing a door to door job if I’m black.

 

[Celery Man 20981]

You wasted 8 fuckin aprons on this guy.

[Skipper 6162]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

 

A possible scenario is that multiple gunshots ring out, waking/disturbing the neighbor. Moments later this is knocking at the door and someone yelling. We don't know if the neighbors had good lighting on their porch or a doorbell camera. While the victim was looking for help, his understandable panic may have sounded more aggressive rather than desperate. All sorts of different factors may have played out to prevent many of the neighbors from having a clear understanding of what was happening. The fog of war is a bitch. This 20/20 hindsight analysis doesn't factor any of that in. 

Agree with Dahobbs here.  Pretty sure in this hypothetical scenario my initial instinct would be trying to ascertain WTF is going on including, once realizing someone has been shot, determining if someone is in pursuit to finish the job (again, in this scenario the neighbor just heard gunshots).  Completely reasonable to try to get a handle on the situation.  There is almost zero chance I'm immediately opening the door without hesitation if the above described scenario played out and my kids are home before figuring out WTF is going on.. 

[You don't know me 1161]

1 hour ago, hookemATL said:

It’s too late now. He has your wife and your kids love rap music. Apologies for your losses. 

So I'm single with no kids now?

[YGIFS 19452]

12 minutes ago, You don't know me said:

So I'm single with no kids now?

Yeah dude.  Grab an 8-ball and a bar tab and I'll meet you at Expose'

[Nivek 16949]

Yeah dude.  Grab an 8-ball and a bar tab and I'll meet you at Expose'

Seasons change, people change…….

[Beau Vine 54319]

4 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

“Monsters under the bed” is an expression. It means things that are extremely unlikely. It means that just because there is the slimmest, slightest, most remote chance that there might actually be a monster under our bed, we can’t go through life assuming there is. That’s no way to live. 

That's the way my mother-in-law is.  The odd thing is that she's fairly liberal and doesn't watch Fox News.

But she has this horrible habit of making decisions by considering the absolute worst possible outcome, completely disregarding the miniscule likelihood of that outcome.  Every couple of years I catch my wife using that same decision-making template and read her the riot act.

[Nivek 16949]

15 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Can't teach the dead. But again, the point here isn't to say what I would or wouldn't do. The point here is to allow a moment of self reflection and to put myself in someone else's shoes. I have a hard time judging someone in this particular instance for being nervous about opening the door. Calling an ambulance is a no brainer. Beyond that, in the moment, I think there is room to have some understanding why someone might be hesitant to open their door and step outside in those circumstances. 

That's what I fucking said I would definitely do. It is the stuff after that that leaves some room for doubt. 

Can't teach the dead?  You are so scared of your shadow that you couldn't help a person in obvious need, not to mention a kid?   Look, I am hesitant to help the boys on the t-ball team tuck in their shirts (ladies, you do that one).  But when someone is in distress I do my best.   I want to live in a world where people help each other out.   So I behave that way.  I have been there for a stabbing victim while the assailant was still in view.  I have also been helped out like that.  Wrecked a motorcycle, bloody, limping with broken bones at night, and contemplating taking a nap on the sidewalk when a young couple took me in their vehicle to get help.  

 

[Dahobbs 17627]

Just now, Nivek said:

Can't teach the dead?  You are so scared of your shadow that you couldn't help a person in obvious need, not to mention a kid?   Look, I am hesitant to help the boys on the t-ball team tuck in their shirts (ladies, you do that one).  But when someone is in distress I do my best.   I want to live in a world where people help each other out.   So I behave that way.  I have been there for a stabbing victim while the assailant was still in view.  I have also been helped out like that.  Wrecked a motorcycle, bloody, limping with broken bones at night, and contemplating taking a nap on the sidewalk when a young couple took me in their vehicle to get help.  

 

Way not to read the rest of discussion. I don't feel like repeating myself, so I'll just refer you to my most recent post on this page. You're not thinking the actual situation through if you think this at all and obvious situation without any risk. Yes, if I know everything we now know from the article, I'd help without hesitation. But, in the moment, there is going to be a lot of unknowns. Just opening your door in the middle of the night without a second thought after hearing multiple gunshots is fucking stupid. 

[Nivek 16949]

21 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Way not to read the rest of discussion. I don't feel like repeating myself, so I'll just refer you to my most recent post on this page. You're not thinking the actual situation through if you think this at all and obvious situation without any risk. Yes, if I know everything we now know from the article, I'd help without hesitation. But, in the moment, there is going to be a lot of unknowns. Just opening your door in the middle of the night without a second thought after hearing multiple gunshots is fucking stupid. 

Does nighttime still scare you?  I mean, I am afraid of the dark but mostly because of Legos.   

Accessing situational danger doesn't take much time,  I don't live in Monrovia. 

As I said earlier, I got involved when the assailant was still in view.   

[Dahobbs 17627]

37 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Does nighttime still scare you?  I mean, I am afraid of the dark but mostly because of Legos.   

Accessing situational danger doesn't take much time,  I don't live in Monrovia. 

As I said earlier, I got involved when the assailant was still in view.   

Great, I'm glad you're brave and willing to take on risks for others. That is admirable, your arrogance and narrow mindedness, less so.  I never I said I wouldn't help. I said I understood a hesitation to and said I wasn't sure how I would respond. That you respond to honest introspection with derision doesn't speak well for you. But, if it makes you feel better about yourself, I guess it is worth it. 

[InkaUtexas 26017]

Arrogance? Narrow Mindedness? Dude, it is about a kid who has been shot. You walk out, or as others have stated bring him in. You do not turn your back. I am not blaming the neighbor, but I know how I would react. And no, I am not a macho asshole with a 250. I am just someone who has been there, was taught to know compassion, and am not afraid. 

BTW, both my kids know how to use and own IFAKs. They know where the safety gear is in my house. They have very good first aid kits. Son is in North Dallas, not in a great place, daughter is in DC, not in a great place. 

And I do not carry. I know how to respond fast and tell my partner what I need right away. And she knows if I go out she calls 911. 

Every home should have a plan. Sucks, I understand your hesitation, but I go out. I am not on the phone with 911, someone else is. I am trying to comfort and stop the bleeding. Hell, if this kid died, at least he has a hand to hold. 

 

[Dahobbs 17627]

16 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Arrogance? Narrow Mindedness? Dude, it is about a kid who has been shot. You walk out, or as others have stated bring him in. You do not turn your back. I am not blaming the neighbor, but I know how I would react. And no, I am not a macho asshole with a 250. I am just someone who has been there, was taught to know compassion, and am not afraid. 

BTW, both my kids know how to use and own IFAKs. They know where the safety gear is in my house. They have very good first aid kits. Son is in North Dallas, not in a great place, daughter is in DC, not in a great place. 

And I do not carry. I know how to respond fast and tell my partner what I need right away. And she knows if I go out she calls 911. 

Every home should have a plan. Sucks, I understand your hesitation, but I go out. I am not on the phone with 911, someone else is. I am trying to comfort and stop the bleeding. Hell, if this kid died, at least he has a hand to hold. 

 

The arrogance and narrow mindedness comes from him being a dick about anyone being less sure how they'd handle the situation, not his own confidence.

Also, you keep repeating "dude, it is a kid" as if it would be at all obvious in the moment that it was just a kid that needed help. Again, you're not thinking about the fog of war here. You're assuming a very particular set of facts being known to the neighbor. I'm not comfortable assuming that there was any such information or certainty to be had. If it was clear that the kid was hurt and legitimately needed help, I would of course help. 

[Gatorubet 30274]

9 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

A possible scenario is that multiple gunshots ring out, waking/disturbing the neighbor. Moments later this is knocking at the door and someone yelling. We don't know if the neighbors had good lighting on their porch or a doorbell camera. While the victim was looking for help, his understandable panic may have sounded more aggressive rather than desperate. All sorts of different factors may have played out to prevent many of the neighbors from having a clear understanding of what was happening. The fog of war is a bitch. This 20/20 hindsight analysis doesn't factor any of that in. 

This is a good take. 

[Gatorubet 30274]

21 hours ago, Bevo said:

Too bad the cops arrived instead of EMS and shot the black dummy.

[InkaUtexas 26017]

25 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

The arrogance and narrow mindedness comes from him being a dick about anyone being less sure how they'd handle the situation, not his own confidence.

Also, you keep repeating "dude, it is a kid" as if it would be at all obvious in the moment that it was just a kid that needed help. Again, you're not thinking about the fog of war here. You're assuming a very particular set of facts being known to the neighbor. I'm not comfortable assuming that there was any such information or certainty to be had. If it was clear that the kid was hurt and legitimately needed help, I would of course help. 

Fog of war is always a reality. But I can look through my window and take a risk. I am not judging you, just stating how I would respond. 

 

[Covri 6250]

12 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Ah, the old shoot-yourself-in-order-to-fool-someone-into-opening-up-their-home-so-you-can-rob-them trick. Right. I’ve seen it a hundred times.

I tired this method multiple times but my henchmen kept dying before the porch, lazy fucks.

 

 

11 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

 Geez, you people snapping on dahobbs’ honest introspection as he tries to empathetically game out what he would do and take a full inventory of the entire situation. It just reeks of the same emotional knee jerk response that happens when the insane “good guys with a gun” Monday-morning QB a violent situation halfway across the country from them with the vain certainty that they would have done the needful so easily.

We all would want to be the Good Samaritan and it’s easy to say you will be. I think countless studies and research have shown it’s typically harder in practice. All I’m saying is give some grace and assume positive intent from strangers, until otherwise.

I mean, following instruction from someone acting in an official police capacity isn’t the most morally reprehensible thing in the world, especially if you are scared and confused and naive to these situations. Especially if they don’t have the lived experience of growing up with homeless and shot gang bangers or drug addicts coming up to them needing help or whatever Zepol was reminiscing about.

 

Dahobbs is basically saying he's gonna do a risk analaysis before helping a fellow human which is the shittiest take in our shitty world.
 

9 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

The first link is about folks pretending to be injured to lure in would be victims. There are other similar links in the list. I grant you that this particular one doesn't feature injury, but that hardly invalidates the notion that there is some danger answering the door here. 

Also, I already said I agree that if I could tell that he was actually injured and needed help, I would do so. I just think you're assuming a lot of knowledge that isn't clear any of the neighbors had when you're suggesting they should have known to help. 

For instance, I have no idea if I could tell at night whether he was bleeding or not. And even if I saw blood, I don't know that would obvious that it was his. Gunshots in the middle of the night followed by a knock on the door would raise most people's defenses. It seems to me that y'all are imagining some situation where the person is clearly, and severely injured and lying defenseless on the ground while bleeding out. It doesn't sound like that matches the fact pattern here since he went to multiple neighbors.

A possible scenario is that multiple gunshots ring out, waking/disturbing the neighbor. Moments later this is knocking at the door and someone yelling. We don't know if the neighbors had good lighting on their porch or a doorbell camera. While the victim was looking for help, his understandable panic may have sounded more aggressive rather than desperate. All sorts of different factors may have played out to prevent many of the neighbors from having a clear understanding of what was happening. The fog of war is a bitch. This 20/20 hindsight analysis doesn't factor any of that in. 

I get it. Y'all want to appear to be big strong men who aren't afraid of anything and laugh at the girly folks who dare approach with caution. You want to be better than the neighbors in the story to make yourselves feel better. But I think you're doing a real disservice to the truly brave woman who proceeded to help despite being told to wait inside by the 911 operator. She took a risk going outside, and that is pretty fucking impressive. Diminishing that by pretending no danger existed is a real asshole move. 

 

Again making arguments based on one in a billion scenarios. You don't live anywhere that would happen to you.
 

 

7 hours ago, Skipper said:

Agree with Dahobbs here.  Pretty sure in this hypothetical scenario my initial instinct would be trying to ascertain WTF is going on including, once realizing someone has been shot, determining if someone is in pursuit to finish the job (again, in this scenario the neighbor just heard gunshots).  Completely reasonable to try to get a handle on the situation.  There is almost zero chance I'm immediately opening the door without hesitation if the above described scenario played out and my kids are home before figuring out WTF is going on.. 

 

You and the others defending Dahobbs are showing your biases and likely subconsciously doing so based on the race of the victim. Yes victim like you should assume anyone is who is laying on your doorstep/lawn bleeding needing help.

[Dahobbs 17627]

12 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Fog of war is always a reality. But I can look through my window and take a risk. I am not judging you, just stating how I would respond. 

 

It is night. I have no idea what your see out your window, but I know I wouldn't see much out of mine. 

[Dahobbs 17627]

7 minutes ago, Covri said:

Dahobbs is basically saying he's gonna do a risk analaysis before helping a fellow human which is the shittiest take in our shitty world.

No, I'm just not assuming that it'll be at all obvious that what is happening is someone needing help. I'm just putting myself in a scenario where I hear gun shots at night, a loud and potentially aggressive knocking at the door, and yelling. My first instinct in that situation isnt going to be to run to the door and see who it is. I'm going to try and figure out what is happening, preferably with a video doorbell. Assuming I can make out what is going on and can determine it is someone needing help, I'll help. But let's say I don't have that doorbell and have poor porch lighting, then it is going to make it awfully hard to know anything other than there were gunshots and a figure at my door.

I'll bet money that our brave heroes in that situation aren't so gungho to let whoever is at the door in. In fact, I'll bet that if they have a gun, they'll grab it before deciding to check out the front door. That isn't doing a risk benefit analysis to determine whether to help someone. It is doing a risk benefit to analysis to determine whether to investigate gunshots and yelling. 

Quote

Again making arguments based on one in a billion scenarios. You don't live anywhere that would happen to you.

If you're talking about a potential home invasion/robbery, I live in Houston. Like half the links I posted above of bad guys taking advantage of the good nature of people took place here. But, that wasn't meant to be the definitive reason why I wouldn't help (since I never reached that conclusion). That was just meant to be a set of examples of some of the types of risks incumbent with charging into the unknown. 

Quote

You and the others defending Dahobbs are showing your biases and likely subconsciously doing so based on the race of the victim. Yes victim like you should assume anyone is who is laying on your doorstep/lawn bleeding needing help.

You're assuming a scenario where it is clear he isn't a threat and is injured. That is a strawman to my point and isn't consistent with what happened here. He went to multiple houses in the neighborhood, meaning he was standing, not lying down. And there is no guarantee anyone could see him clearly because it was nighttime. But yeah, if I see him lying on my porch or lawn and bleeding, I'd help. 

FInally, there is no racial component here. If you've read any of my other posts around this area, you'd feel awfully silly. You're responding to what you imagine I'm saying, based a singular version of events in your head, rather than what I'm actually saying and all the possible version of events based on what the neighbors' may have perceived.

[Covri 6250]

7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No, I'm just not assuming that it'll be at all obvious that what is happening is someone needing help. I'm just putting myself in a scenario where I hear gun shots at night, a loud and potentially aggressive knocking at the door, and yelling. My first instinct in that situation isnt going to be to run to the door and see who it is. I'm going to try and figure out what is happening, preferably with a video doorbell. Assuming I can make out what is going on and can determine it is someone needing help, I'll help. But let's say I don't have that doorbell and have poor porch lighting, then it is going to make it awfully hard to know anything other than there were gunshots and a figure at my door.

I'll bet money that our brave heroes in that situation aren't so gungho to let whoever is at the door in. In fact, I'll bet that if they have a gun, they'll grab it before deciding to check out the front door. That isn't doing a risk benefit analysis to determine whether to help someone. It is doing a risk benefit to analysis to determine whether to investigate gunshots and yelling. 

If you're talking about a potential home invasion/robbery, I live in Houston. Like half the links I posted above of bad guys taking advantage of the good nature of people took place here. But, that wasn't meant to be the definitive reason why I wouldn't help (since I never reached that conclusion). That was just meant to be a set of examples of some of the types of risks incumbent with charging into the unknown. 

You're assuming a scenario where it is clear he isn't a threat and is injured. That is a strawman to my point and isn't consistent with what happened here. He went to multiple houses in the neighborhood, meaning he was standing, not lying down. And there is no guarantee anyone could see him clearly because it was nighttime. But yeah, if I see him lying on my porch or lawn and bleeding, I'd help. 

FInally, there is no racial component here. If you've read any of my other posts around this area, you'd feel awfully silly. You're responding to what you imagine I'm saying, based a singular version of events in your head, rather than what I'm actually saying and all the possible version of events based on what the neighbors' may have perceived.

Nah man, I responded to your posts and I responded to skippers posts who is not you and addressed his potential bias.

Stop bing so defensive about a bad take and listen to why people are calling you out. You're not being nuanced you're just saying you'd leave a person dying on your lawn because scared for your family. I doubt you live  anywhere that would warrant that first take.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Covri

[Dahobbs 17627]

Just now, Covri said:

Nah man, I responded to your posts and I responded to skippers posts who is not you and addressed his potential bias.

Srop bing so defensive about a bad take and listen to why people are calling you out. You're not being nuanced you're just saying you'd leave a person dying on your lawn because scared for your family. I doubt you live  anywhere that would warrant that first take:l.

Bullshit man. Just bullshit. Again, there is zero chance, I mean fucking zero, that with no other information other than 1) gunshots, 2) night, and 3) banging on your door, that you're instantly letting whoever it is in. Zero fucking chance. You're going to investigate first (who is it, what happened, what do they want). You're lying to yourself if you answer any differently. 

And no, I'm not saying I'd leave someone dying on my lawn. In fact, I expressly told you in my previous post that I wouldn't fucking do that. But that isn't necessarily the scenario that played out here. Just because you know, after reading the story, that he was an innocent, injured kid, doesn't mean in the moment those neighbors had access to that information. They may not have known he was injured, that he was a kid, or that he was innocent. But yeah, if they realized all those things, it was shitty to leave him out there. 

[GoPokes83 2240]

Kid’s now recovering at home. Thank goodness.

[InkaUtexas 26017]

20 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Bullshit man. Just bullshit. Again, there is zero chance, I mean fucking zero, that with no other information other than 1) gunshots, 2) night, and 3) banging on your door, that you're instantly letting whoever it is in. Zero fucking chance. You're going to investigate first (who is it, what happened, what do they want). You're lying to yourself if you answer any differently. 

And no, I'm not saying I'd leave someone dying on my lawn. In fact, I expressly told you in my previous post that I wouldn't fucking do that. But that isn't necessarily the scenario that played out here. Just because you know, after reading the story, that he was an innocent, injured kid, doesn't mean in the moment those neighbors had access to that information. They may not have known he was injured, that he was a kid, or that he was innocent. But yeah, if they realized all those things, it was shitty to leave him out there. 

Good take. 

I would pull him in. Have in the past, hope I never have to in the future. 

Not fighting with you man, not at all. 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

 

 

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

 

I can't imagine not opening my front door to someone who appeared to be injured.

 

Lotta people living their lives in fear.

 

[TwiceHorn 31512]

15 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

All I've said is I understand the hesitation. My personal view is that I'd like to think I would help. But, yes, in the moment such thoughts would cross my mind. One, I have no idea if I'd even be able to tell if he was truly injured at night. 2, as said above, he could be an injured would be robber. 3, yes absolutely those sorts of scenarios have occurred because shitty people like to take advantage of good people. Here are some examples you judgmental asshole:

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/atlanta-police-warning-scooter-riders-pretending-be-hurt-steal-your-car/RCIRJOA2KZFOVFTYOFKSDEBXU4/

(police warning of scooter riders pretending to be hurt to steal your car)

https://www.ketv.com/article/it-was-so-scary-it-felt-like-a-movie-disabled-omaha-woman-victim-of-carjacking/37714242

(Kids ask disabled woman for a ride because it is cold and when she says yes, point a gun at her to take the car)

https://www.ksat.com/news/2018/05/31/police-man-trying-to-be-good-samaritan-becomes-carjacking-victim/

(driver told San Antonio police he stopped to offer someone a helping hand but they took advantage of him instead, stealing his car at gunpoint.)

(Video of home invasion started after owner answered knock on door)

https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/home-invasion-in-klein-texas/285-ddfd358c-a599-4c95-b7b5-40ef2570b307

(Investigators said a man drove into a yard in the cul-de-sac and started going to multiple homes and knocking on their doors. He then tried to open parked cars.T he man went to the house of the homeowner involved. When the homeowner answered the door, the suspected gunman forced his way in.)

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/2022-oak-lawn-home-invasion/

(Oak Lawn police said, on March 22, a woman in an orange jacket rang the doorbell of the victim at her home, on 105th Place near Kenton Avenue, pretending to sell candy around 6 p.m. The woman was alone in her home at the time. Soon afterward, a man wearing a white T-shirt over a blue hoodie forced his way into the home at gunpoint – knocking the victim to the ground.)

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/woman-children-startled-by-men-with-handguns-in-home/49547/

(Woman Knocks on Door Before Gunmen Enter Home)

But yeah, shitty people, like the kind that shoot a kid for knocking on the wrong door, don't exist and you shouldn't be aware of them at all. 

I have no idea if I'd be able to tell at night what state the kid was in. Maybe I could, maybe I couldn't. My ability to discern whether the kid truly needed help or was a threat would be part of the unknown here in how I would respond. Again, I'd like to think I would help. But I just don't know for sure. But yes, so long as one doesn't think about the consequences at fucking all, one is free to judge those that may taken a moment to figure shit out. 

Also, there is a difference between me risking my own life and me risking my family's lives. I can easily justify the first. The second isnt so easy for me to dismiss. 

I hear you.

I too, would like to think I would help, but that would be a frightening situation:  late at night, awakened by gunshots and then I assume frantic knocking on the door, to be met with a bleeding man? kid? do we really know what he looks like/looked like covered in blood?

I'm not sure one can say with certainty what one would do until confronted with that situation.  And anyone that says otherwise may be be a bit full of bravado.  And, as you said, infected with hindsight bias (knowing now that he was a young, innocent kid and the shooter had retreated back into his abode).

Anyone who expresses doubts is just being honest, not a dickhole.

Edited April 19, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[aggie08 21508]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I hear you.

I too, would like to think I would help, but that would be a frightening situation:  late at night, awakened by gunshots and then I assume frantic knocking on the door, to be met with a bleeding man? kid? do we really know what he looks like/looked like covered in blood?

I'm not sure one can say with certainty what one would do until confronted with that situation.  And anyone that says otherwise may be be a bit full of bravado.

Anyone who expresses doubts is just being honest, not a dickhole.

We also all have decades of preconditioning that tells our brain that shots fired in a residential neighborhood and someone running around with gunshot wounds is most likely 1) An armed suspect running from police, 2) A home intrusion gone wrong, or 3) Some form of "gang" violence or altercation.

Though, I'd imagine that my brain is slowly being reprogrammed with all of these events, and I'd be more likely to assume it's highly probable that the wounded party was just in the wrong place at the wrong time around some coward with a gun.

 

[Proust Bag 20]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Bullshit man. Just bullshit. Again, there is zero chance, I mean fucking zero, that with no other information other than 1) gunshots, 2) night, and 3) banging on your door, that you're instantly letting whoever it is in. Zero fucking chance. You're going to investigate first (who is it, what happened, what do they want). You're lying to yourself if you answer any differently. 

And no, I'm not saying I'd leave someone dying on my lawn. In fact, I expressly told you in my previous post that I wouldn't fucking do that. But that isn't necessarily the scenario that played out here. Just because you know, after reading the story, that he was an innocent, injured kid, doesn't mean in the moment those neighbors had access to that information. They may not have known he was injured, that he was a kid, or that he was innocent. But yeah, if they realized all those things, it was shitty to leave him out there. 

Don’t let them upset you, you’re 100% correct. 

[royiv 9333]

15 minutes ago, Proust Bag said:

Don’t let them upset you, you’re 100% correct. 

Good pep talk. I definitely don't think he's upset after this many posts over the last 24 hours. High fives all around.

[TwiceHorn 31512]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

We also all have decades of preconditioning that tells our brain that shots fired in a residential neighborhood and someone running around with gunshot wounds is most likely 1) An armed suspect running from police, 2) A home intrusion gone wrong, or 3) Some form of "gang" violence or altercation.

Though, I'd imagine that my brain is slowly being reprogrammed with all of these events, and I'd be more likely to assume it's highly probable that the wounded party was just in the wrong place at the wrong time around some coward with a gun.

 

I'm not even sure what I'd assume about it.

But I might be wary that the guy at the door is himself armed, or that someone is going to take another shot at him or someone else and blow my head off in the process.

And, to be brutally honest, I don't know shit about treating gunshot wounds.  I'd be mighty cautious about even attempting to help, lest I do more damage.  I mean sure, compress a bleeding wound, but on the skull?  I don't keep compression bandages, sulfa and morphine syrettes around.

A whole lot to assess right there.  And, I'm pretty sure my wife would be freaking the fuck out, so adding another layer of distraction.

Edited April 19, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[InkaUtexas 26017]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm not even sure what I'd assume about it.

But I might be wary that the guy at the door is himself armed, or that someone is going to take another shot at him or someone else and blow my head off in the process.

And, to be brutally honest, I don't know shit about treating gunshot wounds.  I'd be mighty cautious about even attempting to help, lest I do more damage.  I mean sure, compress a bleeding wound, but on the skull?  I don't keep compression bandages, sulfa and morphine syrettes around.

A whole lot to assess right there.  And, I'm pretty sure my wife would be freaking the fuck out, so adding another layer of distraction.

You use towels, hold down softly. And if you need to be armed, let your partner have the weapon. My Fiancé knows how to use mine. 

Look, You are not going to hit him with morphine. You are calling 911 and securing the person. You are giving an address. 

JFC, it was a kid. 16... Went to the wrong house. Imagine that was your kid. You were watching a UT game and gave the wrong address after your 3rd makers mark. Would you not want someone to respond? 

 

[Zepol87 9188]

4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Bullshit man. Just bullshit. Again, there is zero chance, I mean fucking zero, that with no other information other than 1) gunshots, 2) night, and 3) banging on your door, that you're instantly letting whoever it is in. Zero fucking chance. You're going to investigate first (who is it, what happened, what do they want). You're lying to yourself if you answer any differently. 

And no, I'm not saying I'd leave someone dying on my lawn. In fact, I expressly told you in my previous post that I wouldn't fucking do that. But that isn't necessarily the scenario that played out here. Just because you know, after reading the story, that he was an innocent, injured kid, doesn't mean in the moment those neighbors had access to that information. They may not have known he was injured, that he was a kid, or that he was innocent. But yeah, if they realized all those things, it was shitty to leave him out there. 

Apologies for being a dick to you last night. We just disagree and grew up differently because I’ve been through this scenario with my grandparents more than once so it hits close to home. I just can’t imagine not helping a kid out though regardless of darkness or time of day. We suck ass as society 

[Zepol87 9188]

7 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

You use towels, hold down softly. And if you need to be armed, let your partner have the weapon. My Fiancé knows how to use mine. 

Look, You are not going to hit him with morphine. You are calling 911 and securing the person. You are giving an address. 

JFC, it was a kid. 16... Went to the wrong house. Imagine that was your kid. You were watching a UT game and gave the wrong address after your 3rd makers mark. Would you not want someone to respond? 

 

That’s what bothers me, every hypothetical about safety is assuming it’s a fucking Huntsville death row escapee. Why is everyone such a bitch now?? The crazy what if he was a psychopath murderer arguments aren’t valid but it’s surly so whatever 

[InkaUtexas 26017]

1 minute ago, Zepol87 said:

That’s what bothers me, every hypothetical about safety is assuming it’s a fucking Huntsville death row escapee. Why is everyone such a bitch now?? The crazy what if he was a psychopath murderer arguments aren’t valid but it’s surly so whatever 

I blame Karen. 

Being serious, ya, you are not going to stop a massive brain bleed. But you can hold a hand. 

[Zepol87 9188]

14 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I blame Karen. 

Being serious, ya, you are not going to stop a massive brain bleed. But you can hold a hand. 

 It’s dark so I’ll watch him bleed out from my couch while I wait for the medics. Just fucking insane

Edited April 19, 2023 by Zepol87

[InkaUtexas 26017]

Come on man. We are trying to have a discussion (I know Surly) but no one needs to be evil. I get @Dahobbs point. I just know how me and my kids would react. 

I applaud him for standing up vs. just saying fuck all. 

You and me @Zepol87 would respond in a different way. That's cool. 

Can we just fucking agree OU Sux? 

[Dahobbs 17627]

6 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

 It’s dark so I’ll watch him bleed out from my couch while I wait for the medics. Just fucking insane

That's not what I've been saying at all. Your strawman bullshit is tiring. Again, the whole point is you might not even know is injured. You keep jumping ahead to a point in time where you know all this stuff, but never figuring out how you get there. 

[Skipper 6162]

11 hours ago, aggie08 said:

We also all have decades of preconditioning that tells our brain that shots fired in a residential neighborhood and someone running around with gunshot wounds is most likely 1) An armed suspect running from police, 2) A home intrusion gone wrong, or 3) Some form of "gang" violence or altercation.

Though, I'd imagine that my brain is slowly being reprogrammed with all of these events, and I'd be more likely to assume it's highly probable that the wounded party was just in the wrong place at the wrong time around some coward with a gun.

 

This.  I would add some kind of domestic or other dispute with a known person where the shooter might be in pursuit and start blasting (at you) as soon as you open door.  Like the POS in Plano a few years ago that walked into a cowboys game watching party to kill his GF and killed a bunch of other people as well. 

The fact pattern presented "kid knocked on wrong door and crazy old person shot him for being at the wrong door" would never make the list of hypotheticals that would flow through your brain in the split seconds during which you are trying to ascertain the situation (which is all anyone is arguing about here).  F whoever that is that is claiming that anyone that would hesitate at all is showing racial bias.  Ridiculous.   And 100% agree with DAhobbs that the first thing most of the tough guys on here would do in reality is grab their gun (which, if they have kids, better be locked up). So we're talking about the same timeline.  Some grabbing their weapons during that timeline.  Others are trying to figure out WTF is going.   I also think if you don't have young kids your answer might change if/when you do.