Black Teenager Shot for Ringing Wrong Doorbell

[YGIFS 19452]

Yeah, between this and the driveway story (and honestly, hundreds more just like it)...people turn around on my street all the time and some do look suspicious.  People knock on my door all the time and some do look suspicious.  But biases and hypotheticals aside...just a matter of the physical restraints of time. 

How can they shoot so quickly?  As in, how do they hear a car in their driveway, go get what I can only assume is a responsibly and safely stored firearm, load it, get back to the front of the house, chamber the round, before somebody can turn their car around?  That's like Billy the Kid fast.  I can't make it to answer the door in that amount of time, let alone get a gun out of a safe and loaded and get to the front of the house.  

Are some of you just sitting with your guns on your lap in the front of your house watching TV?  

[ztejas 43532]

15 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

The arrogance and narrow mindedness comes from him being a dick about anyone being less sure how they'd handle the situation, not his own confidence.

Also, you keep repeating "dude, it is a kid" as if it would be at all obvious in the moment that it was just a kid that needed help. Again, you're not thinking about the fog of war here. You're assuming a very particular set of facts being known to the neighbor. I'm not comfortable assuming that there was any such information or certainty to be had. If it was clear that the kid was hurt and legitimately needed help, I would of course help. 

Lol "fog of war" this isn't Afghanistan it's a middle class neighborhood in America. The guy that fired the shots fired twice and never fired a shot outside of his own home. The kid that got shot - from everything I've seen - probably looked like a nerdy black kid crying for help. 

All you have to do is look out the window and quickly realize that there isn't any imminent danger. I'm doubtful that these people would have even heard 2 gunshots fired from inside behind a storm door a few houses down.

The amount of fear that people live in is amazing. 

[Hammerin Hank 1227]

Here’s a story about the neighbor that answered the door 

https://news.yahoo.com/neighbour-saved-ralph-yarl-recounts-132816424.html

[Brisketexan 105307]

Yeah, between this and the driveway story (and honestly, hundreds more just like it)...people turn around on my street all the time and some do look suspicious.  People knock on my door all the time and some do look suspicious.  But biases and hypotheticals aside...just a matter of the physical restraints of time. 
How can they shoot so quickly?  As in, how do they hear a car in their driveway, go get what I can only assume is a responsibly and safely stored firearm, load it, get back to the front of the house, chamber the round, before somebody can turn their car around?  That's like Billy the Kid fast.  I can't make it to answer the door in that amount of time, let alone get a gun out of a safe and loaded and get to the front of the house.  
Are some of you just sitting with your guns on your lap in the front of your house watching TV?  

Yes. They are. Seriously, there is a material percentage of Americans who literally have a weapon next to them as they sleep, watch TV, take a dump, whatever. They are always .2 seconds away from yelling “IT’S GO TIME!” and confronting the deadly threat that is a Girl Scout selling cookies. For real. People live their lives like that.

[Dahobbs 17678]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Lol "fog of war" this isn't Afghanistan it's a middle class neighborhood in America. The guy that fired the shots fired twice and never fired a shot outside of his own home. The kid that got shot - from everything I've seen - probably looked like a nerdy black kid crying for help. 

All you have to do is look out the window and quickly realize that there isn't any imminent danger. I'm doubtful that these people would have even heard 2 gunshots fired from inside behind a storm door a few houses down.

The amount of fear that people live in is amazing. 

Sure man, no room for confusion or doubt here. All the neighbors are either racists or pussies. It is the only explanation. Whatever. They couldn't have heard the shots and been concerned. And even if they heard the shots, they must have known the guy doing the shooting never left his own home. And obviously they could have just immediately looked at their window and known the guy standing there was a not a threat. Lighting conditions? Irrelevant. Whether they can see the guy is hurt? Irrelevant. Whether he is coherently asking for help vs just yelling, irrelevant. And, of course, everyone knows that when gun shots ring out in a neighborhood at night, that it is never an indication that criminal activity is taking place or that a home-invader, robber, or just general crazy person is out on the loose. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Dahobbs

[lemonlime 5503]

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

That's not what I've been saying at all. Your strawman bullshit is tiring. Again, the whole point is you might not even know is injured. You keep jumping ahead to a point in time where you know all this stuff, but never figuring out how you get there. 

At least what I've been reacting to in what you're saying, is that you're proactively justifying something that is simply the wrong decision.  If I'm being honest, I don't know how I'd react in the moment with  a stranger shouting they'd been shot, at night, outside my door.  But I'd certainly like to believe that I would do everything I could to help that kid.  And I can't imagine spending pages justifying a hypothetical decision to let a kid bleed out on my lawn.  Regardless of what hypothetical excuses I could dream up.

[Dahobbs 17678]

Just now, lemonlime said:

At least what I've been reacting to in what you're saying

Weird.

Quote

And I can't imagine spending pages justifying a hypothetical decision to let a kid bleed out on my lawn.

Find where I said that. I'll wait. 

Quote

If I'm being honest, I don't know how I'd react in the moment . . .  But I'd certainly like to believe that I would do everything I could to help that kid. 

Hmm, if only someone else in this thread had been saying the exact same thing, maybe you'd agree with him. 

Quote

 a stranger shouting they'd been shot

See, here, here is an example of my point. I have no idea if he was coherently saying that or that the neighbors could make it out. A panicked kid that had just been shot may not have been communicating all that clearly. 

[Nivek 16982]

14 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Great, I'm glad you're brave and willing to take on risks for others. That is admirable, your arrogance and narrow mindedness, less so.  I never I said I wouldn't help. I said I understood a hesitation to and said I wasn't sure how I would respond. That you respond to honest introspection with derision doesn't speak well for you. But, if it makes you feel better about yourself, I guess it is worth it. 

It was a little derisive I'll admit to that.   But not so narrow-minded, arrogant, brave, or admirable.  I just simply want to live in a world where people help each other.  I want to go to a park or walk in a neighborhood that is free from trash.  In order to do that,  I have to participate to get what I want.  If I want my kids to share my values, I cannot just talk about them and I cannot live those values when they are convenient.      

You (or another) made a comment about the fog of war, but this isn't war and we do not live in a warzone.  I think the use of that language colors our judgment so I take a little umbrage with that terminology, though the concept is fine, but simplistic and understood (sort of like telling my wife I am going to the store, but then feeling the need to tell her I am wearing pants, socks, shoes, and a t-shirt would also be unnecessary).   You are also correct that any reasonable person would or should make a risk assessment for themselves and their families.   And we probably all have some variation in our tolerance for risk.  

Ultimately, I think we have been too programmed to be afraid due to our televisions and the bad actors in media playing on those fears.  

[TwiceHorn 31534]

11 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

You use towels, hold down softly. And if you need to be armed, let your partner have the weapon. My Fiancé knows how to use mine. 

Look, You are not going to hit him with morphine. You are calling 911 and securing the person. You are giving an address. 

JFC, it was a kid. 16... Went to the wrong house. Imagine that was your kid. You were watching a UT game and gave the wrong address after your 3rd makers mark. Would you not want someone to respond? 

 

The bit about compression bandages, sulfa, and morphine syrettes was in jest.  I'm not a Corpsman or EMT.  I have acquired a good bit of first aid knowledge over the years, but it doesn't really extend to major trauma.

I'm not saying my worries about how or if I could really help dispose of the matter one way or the other, it's just another open question tempering a desire to help.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

This thread is surly certainty in an uncertain and nuanced situation to a T.

Fucking perfection.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Lol "fog of war" this isn't Afghanistan it's a middle class neighborhood in America. The guy that fired the shots fired twice and never fired a shot outside of his own home. The kid that got shot - from everything I've seen - probably looked like a nerdy black kid crying for help. 

All you have to do is look out the window and quickly realize that there isn't any imminent danger. I'm doubtful that these people would have even heard 2 gunshots fired from inside behind a storm door a few houses down.

The amount of fear that people live in is amazing. 

Hindsight bias much.

[cattail 112]

The Texags thread on this is about as terrible as you would expect. Lots of hand wringing to try and explain why the old man was justified in blasting the kid.

[Brisketexan 105307]

40 minutes ago, cattail said:

The Texags thread on this is about as terrible as you would expect. Lots of hand wringing to try and explain why the old man was justified in blasting the kid.

Duh.  We called that response back on p. 1.  As predictable as tomorrow's sunrise.

[fattyflattie 4638]

On 4/18/2023 at 9:26 AM, Brian Fantana said:

People like fattyflattie and all the other people who like to debate what type of round was used and other irrelevant minutae when shootings happen absolutely fantasize about something like this. They ultimately want to use their guns for what they're designed to do. A situation where they can legally kill someone (or at least they think it's legal) is the ultimate wet dream.

Lol. You're so shattered.  It's OK, we are going to get thru this. 

[closetohumping 17462]

[Beau Vine 54412]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes. They are. Seriously, there is a material percentage of Americans who literally have a weapon next to them as they sleep, watch TV, take a dump, whatever. They are always .2 seconds away from yelling “IT’S GO TIME!” and confronting the deadly threat that is a Girl Scout selling cookies. For real. People live their lives like that.

Oh, come on.  I *HAVE* to have a weapon next to me at all times, because there will be no advance warning for when AOC shows up at my door to take away my guns.

[Dahobbs 17678]

32 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Oh, come on.  I *HAVE* to have a weapon next to me at all times, because there will be no advance warning for when AOC shows up at my door to take away my guns.

Wait, so if I buy a gun AOC will show up at my door?

 

[bolverk 29717]

Missouri Man Pleads Not Guilty in Shooting of Teen Who Mistakenly Came to His Door
Andrew D. Lester, 84, said little in court on Wednesday, speaking softly and answering basic questions.

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Andrew D. Lester, the 84-year-old man charged in the shooting of Ralph Yarl, a 16-year-old high school student, pleaded not guilty on Wednesday in a brief appearance in a county courthouse in Missouri.

Mr. Lester, who entered the small courtroom in Liberty, Mo., through a side entrance, approached the judge slowly using a cane and was steadied at one point by a deputy sheriff. Mr. Lester said little in court, speaking softly and answering basic questions.

The appearance came after the prosecutor in Clay County charged Mr. Lester with assault in the first degree and armed criminal action. For days, residents of Kansas City have reacted to the shooting with shock and dismay, while Ralph, who was shot twice after coming to Mr. Lester’s front door by mistake, has been recovering from his injuries at home.

Mr. Lester told the police after the shooting that he fired his gun because he was “scared to death” of being physically harmed.

Mr. Lester lives in a modest beige house outfitted with surveillance cameras, though there is little crime in his quiet neighborhood near the northern edge of Kansas City. Neighbors said that his wife was recently moved to a nursing home, leaving him alone in his house. He spent considerable time at home in a living room chair, watching conservative news programs at high volume, a relative said.

Mr. Lester did not speak publicly outside of his courtroom appearance, and attempts to reach him earlier were not successful. Mr. Lester’s lawyer did not immediately respond to a phone call. No one answered the door at his home, and he did not respond to a note left at the house, which had a sign outside alerting visitors to security cameras and a “No Solicitors” placard by the door.

Klint Ludwig, a grandson, said in an interview that he and his grandfather used to be close. The two had become estranged in part, Mr. Ludwig said, because Mr. Lester had embraced right-wing conspiracy theories.

Mr. Lester used to tell his grandson about serving in the military decades ago, and recount stories of working as a mechanic in the airline industry, where he said he was friends with Black technicians. They celebrated holidays together with extended family who lived in the Kansas City area. Mr. Ludwig, who described himself as left wing, said that Mr. Lester kept a large number of firearms in his home, including rifles and handguns.

But at a family gathering during the coronavirus pandemic, Mr. Ludwig said, Mr. Lester began sharing a conspiracy theory involving Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the infectious disease expert.

“I was like, ‘Man, this sounds crazy,’” recalled Mr. Ludwig, 28. “I told him it was ridiculous.”

The two have not had a relationship since, Mr. Ludwig said.

Mr. Ludwig, who lives in a suburb of Kansas City, described his grandfather as prone to making remarks that he considered disparaging about Black people, gay people and immigrants.

Another grandson, Daniel Ludwig, said in a text that it was not accurate to describe his grandfather as espousing extreme right-wing views and conspiracy theories, but he declined to comment in detail. “These people are not close to him like I am,” he said of other family members, adding that his grandfather was “literally too nice” and had “spoiled” other relatives.

Zachary Thompson, the Clay County prosecutor, said this week that there was a “racial component” to the shooting but did not elaborate. Mr. Lester is white; Ralph is Black.

Neighbors said this week that they doubted that the shooting was racially motivated. One man who lived near Mr. Lester but declined to give his name said he had some sympathy for the 84-year-old, especially since he had been living alone after his wife was moved to a nursing home. The man speculated that Mr. Lester was frightened and disoriented when he went to his door with his gun.

Karen Allman, who lives down the street from Mr. Lester, said that while she did not know him, she was not surprised that the conflict occurred. Many of her neighbors are older, she said, and “set in their ways.”

“The fact that you would open up the door and just shoot somebody? I don’t understand,” she said. “If you’re that scared, why did you open up the door? And that gentleman has security cameras all over.”

Mary Clayton, 81, was married to Mr. Lester when she was a young woman, a union that produced three children. She now lives in California and has not spoken to Mr. Lester in decades.

It has been so long since she saw her ex-husband that when she initially saw his face on the news, she didn’t recognize him. Then one of her daughters called on Tuesday, in shock over the shooting.

She remembers the 14-year marriage as troubled: Mr. Lester was prone to fits of rage, smashing objects in their home when he was angry. Back then, when she summoned the police, they told her that it was his house and that he could do as he liked.

“I was always scared of him,” Ms. Clayton said. “It doesn’t surprise me, what happened.”

[SydneyCarton 48161]

18 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Missouri Man Pleads Not Guilty in Shooting of Teen Who Mistakenly Came to His Door
Andrew D. Lester, 84, said little in court on Wednesday, speaking softly and answering basic questions.

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Andrew D. Lester, the 84-year-old man charged in the shooting of Ralph Yarl, a 16-year-old high school student, pleaded not guilty on Wednesday in a brief appearance in a county courthouse in Missouri.

Mr. Lester, who entered the small courtroom in Liberty, Mo., through a side entrance, approached the judge slowly using a cane and was steadied at one point by a deputy sheriff. Mr. Lester said little in court, speaking softly and answering basic questions.

The appearance came after the prosecutor in Clay County charged Mr. Lester with assault in the first degree and armed criminal action. For days, residents of Kansas City have reacted to the shooting with shock and dismay, while Ralph, who was shot twice after coming to Mr. Lester’s front door by mistake, has been recovering from his injuries at home.

Mr. Lester told the police after the shooting that he fired his gun because he was “scared to death” of being physically harmed.

Mr. Lester lives in a modest beige house outfitted with surveillance cameras, though there is little crime in his quiet neighborhood near the northern edge of Kansas City. Neighbors said that his wife was recently moved to a nursing home, leaving him alone in his house. He spent considerable time at home in a living room chair, watching conservative news programs at high volume, a relative said.

Mr. Lester did not speak publicly outside of his courtroom appearance, and attempts to reach him earlier were not successful. Mr. Lester’s lawyer did not immediately respond to a phone call. No one answered the door at his home, and he did not respond to a note left at the house, which had a sign outside alerting visitors to security cameras and a “No Solicitors” placard by the door.

Klint Ludwig, a grandson, said in an interview that he and his grandfather used to be close. The two had become estranged in part, Mr. Ludwig said, because Mr. Lester had embraced right-wing conspiracy theories.

Mr. Lester used to tell his grandson about serving in the military decades ago, and recount stories of working as a mechanic in the airline industry, where he said he was friends with Black technicians. They celebrated holidays together with extended family who lived in the Kansas City area. Mr. Ludwig, who described himself as left wing, said that Mr. Lester kept a large number of firearms in his home, including rifles and handguns.

But at a family gathering during the coronavirus pandemic, Mr. Ludwig said, Mr. Lester began sharing a conspiracy theory involving Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the infectious disease expert.

“I was like, ‘Man, this sounds crazy,’” recalled Mr. Ludwig, 28. “I told him it was ridiculous.”

The two have not had a relationship since, Mr. Ludwig said.

Mr. Ludwig, who lives in a suburb of Kansas City, described his grandfather as prone to making remarks that he considered disparaging about Black people, gay people and immigrants.

Another grandson, Daniel Ludwig, said in a text that it was not accurate to describe his grandfather as espousing extreme right-wing views and conspiracy theories, but he declined to comment in detail. “These people are not close to him like I am,” he said of other family members, adding that his grandfather was “literally too nice” and had “spoiled” other relatives.

Zachary Thompson, the Clay County prosecutor, said this week that there was a “racial component” to the shooting but did not elaborate. Mr. Lester is white; Ralph is Black.

Neighbors said this week that they doubted that the shooting was racially motivated. One man who lived near Mr. Lester but declined to give his name said he had some sympathy for the 84-year-old, especially since he had been living alone after his wife was moved to a nursing home. The man speculated that Mr. Lester was frightened and disoriented when he went to his door with his gun.

Karen Allman, who lives down the street from Mr. Lester, said that while she did not know him, she was not surprised that the conflict occurred. Many of her neighbors are older, she said, and “set in their ways.”

“The fact that you would open up the door and just shoot somebody? I don’t understand,” she said. “If you’re that scared, why did you open up the door? And that gentleman has security cameras all over.”

Mary Clayton, 81, was married to Mr. Lester when she was a young woman, a union that produced three children. She now lives in California and has not spoken to Mr. Lester in decades.

It has been so long since she saw her ex-husband that when she initially saw his face on the news, she didn’t recognize him. Then one of her daughters called on Tuesday, in shock over the shooting.

She remembers the 14-year marriage as troubled: Mr. Lester was prone to fits of rage, smashing objects in their home when he was angry. Back then, when she summoned the police, they told her that it was his house and that he could do as he liked.

“I was always scared of him,” Ms. Clayton said. “It doesn’t surprise me, what happened.”

Chef’s kiss. He’s absolutely every stereotype that many of us assumed. I’d almost assume this article was a troll if we didn’t know better. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[Dahobbs 17678]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Chef’s kiss. He’s absolutely every stereotype that many of us assumed. I’d almost assume this article was s troll. 

24 hour news is the devil. The world would be a better place if old people were watching trashy reality television all the time instead. 

[YGIFS 19452]

Exactly, that's why I've been pitching "GILF Island" for years to the networks.  But they keep passing in favor of more news magazine/expose programs.  

Also, he's entitled to every defense benefit.  But in 3 seconds he got out of his chair, chambered a round, and fired.  But it took him 50 seconds to get from the courtroom door to the bench?  Suddenly he walks with a cane and needs to lean on people for physical support?  Sure had no problem pursuing his target that day down the street.  

They're also laying on the "he doesn't seem like a racist" background a little thick.  I don't think this was race related.  I think it was just evidence of people who maybe shouldn't have that much access to firearms.  He's been wound up to think that anybody at his door is there to kill him.  Obviously the work of a Mister Ronan Sinatra.

[Brian Fantana 6690]

5 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol. You're so shattered.  It's OK, we are going to get thru this. 

I hope so!

[hookemATL 11849]

Rancid old fuck. Slap a diaper on him and toss him in jail for the short remaining duration of his miserable life. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

I am shocked to hear he was mainlining Fox News/OANN all day and night and was terrified for his life in that quiet, peaceful suburb.

Pew! Pew!

[closetohumping 17462]

Ralph’s gofund me has generated 3.2m!

[Bookman 4640]

HOLY SHIT I live in a nice neighborhood and just now there is a Hispanic male in his 50's who appears to be looking for something in my front yard. Should I fucking blow him away with my shotgun?

[Deej 76903]

14 minutes ago, Bookman said:

HOLY SHIT I live in a nice neighborhood and just now there is a Hispanic male in his 50's who appears to be looking for something in my front yard. Should I fucking blow him away with my shotgun?

[Nivek 16982]

Quote

The man speculated that Mr. Lester was frightened and disoriented when he went to his door with his gun.

[YGIFS 19452]

Disoriented by a doorbell ringing?  May as well be the Armalite marketing slogan?  Why stop at a pistol, if you're that frightened, more firepower! 

"Have you or a loved one recently been startled by a door knock or bell ringing?  Well then an AR-15 may be right for you."  

Edited April 20, 2023 by YGIFS

[closetohumping 17462]

9 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Disoriented by a doorbell ringing?  May as well be the Armalite marketing slogan?  Why stop at a pistol, if you're that frightened, more firepower! 

"Have you or a loved one recently been startled by a door knock or bell ringing?  Well then an AR-15 may be right for you."  

Disoriented by gun in his hand buddy

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 hour ago, Bookman said:

HOLY SHIT I live in a nice neighborhood and just now there is a Hispanic male in his 50's who appears to be looking for something in my front yard. Should I fucking blow him away with my shotgun?

If he’s on your castle you can shoot him. Or dump boiling tar from your turret.

*I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

**But seriously if you live in Texas you can blast that motherfucker.

[Bookman 4640]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

If he’s on your castle you can shoot him. Or dump boiling tar from your turret.

*I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

**But seriously if you live in Texas you can blast that motherfucker.

Even if it's illegal, I'm pretty sure our honorable governor would give me a pardon.

[TexasEd 8077]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

If he’s on your castle you can shoot him. Or dump boiling tar from your turret.

*I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

**But seriously if you live in Texas you can blast that motherfucker.

Hell if you feel threatened by people walking down the street you can blast away and the Governor will pardon you.