Woman shot and killed after car she was in pulled into the wrong driveway

[0xdeadbeef 1651]

Too many details missing from the article to really get a picture of what happened.

• How long and how remote was the driveway? 
• Did they turn in and then start to turn around to leave? 
• What time of day was this?  
• If it was at night, did the driver have/leave their lights on?
• Did the driver stop on the driveway for some period of time?

 

Two contrasting scenarios that fit the minimal data points we have:

Let's say it was a quarter-mile long driveway not within sight of any neighbor, and let's say this was at 2am and the diver turned their light out halfway up the driveway and then rolled quietly up near the house where they parked and waited.  That starts bordering on Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes territory. 

or

Let's say it was a 50yd driveway with 3 or 4 neighbors within a quarter mile off a somewhat busy road at 2pm and the car turned in, drove a few car lengths, and started to turn around to leave.   This is flat out murder.

 

 

 

 

[Beau Vine 54230]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Between pulling into driveways (only during the day, mind you) and having the audacity to let my dog use your yard (bag in hand), people are fucking itching to come lecture you.

I literally just got back from taking my dog on a walk and had a dude scream at me because my dog was pooping in his yard.  Never mind that I was standing right next to the dog unwrapping a plastic bag so I could pick it up.  I thought of this thread and decided I'm really lucky to be a white guy.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

40 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Is this the man or the woman?

 

[conVINCEd 21469]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

All of these.

The guns are absolutely a problem.  But our collective psychology AROUND guns is also a big fucking problem.

As I've mentioned before, in the late 80s, I often had a gun in my car, on my high school campus.  And administration knew about it, one of them even helped us transfer (cased) shotguns between cars on a Friday afternoon before we headed off on a hunting trip.  It never occurred to us to use our guns in anger.  It just wasn't part of our collective mental toolkit.  Now, we have a whole cult that 1) has been programmed to be constantly terrified, and 2) is actually looking for a reason to use their gun "to protect myself and my castle!"

We've created a fucked up culture, and it really is a creature of the past 30 years or so.  AND, we've armed the shit out of that cult.  The poisonous tree we planted is now bearing a bumper crop of deadly fruit.

They not we.

[Dahobbs 17534]

5 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Too many details missing from the article to really get a picture of what happened.

• How long and how remote was the driveway? 
• Did they turn in and then start to turn around to leave? 
• What time of day was this?  
• If it was at night, did the driver have/leave their lights on?
• Did the driver stop on the driveway for some period of time?

 

Two contrasting scenarios that fit the minimal data points we have:

Let's say it was a quarter-mile long driveway not within sight of any neighbor, and let's say this was at 2am and the diver turned their light out halfway up the driveway and then rolled quietly up near the house where they parked and waited.  That starts bordering on Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes territory. 

or

Let's say it was a 50yd driveway with 3 or 4 neighbors within a quarter mile off a somewhat busy road at 2pm and the car turned in, drove a few car lengths, and started to turn around to leave.   This is flat out murder.

 

 

 

 

I mean, according to the article at least, they were leaving by the time he started firing. That's murder no matter what. And no, I don't think pulling up to the wrong house at 2:00 am, even if it is a long driveway, in any way justifies the owner opening fire. Being wrong about a house you haven't been to before isn't a stupid prizes scenario in the slightest. If they were intentionally going up the wrong driveway, then you may be a little closer to that territory. 

[Beau Vine 54230]

1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

What's next, shooting the construction workers who park their truck outside my house for the guy building a pool two doors down? 

It's a flooring guys for the house next door.  And the cop will tell you that "even though you don't own the parking on the street in front of your house, you have more right to it than a complete stranger."

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

I literally just got back from taking my dog on a walk and had a dude scream at me because my dog was pooping in his yard.  Never mind that I was standing right next to the dog unwrapping a plastic bag so I could pick it up.  I thought of this thread and decided I'm really lucky to be a white guy.

For now you are. When Elon Musk accidentally creates Skynet who do you think are the first people it will kill off? Or maybe not, given how racist AI tends to get these days.

[Beau Vine 54230]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

And yes, I remember a gun being pulled from an upstairs window when we weren't up to any mischief, my brother was involved a car chase after someone got upset by him and his friend peeing in their yard, guy pulled a gun at a party because he wanted everyone to leave so he could be with his girlfriend, worked out with Elvin Bethea's brother (although it has been so long it could have been Robert Brazile's brother) and some guys started to play with pistols at his apartment. I've had people come after me in road rage incidents - shit happened but guns weren't fired.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

People with guns are pussies. It's inherent in their nature. 

This needs to be pinned.

Facts.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

I mean, according to the article at least, they were leaving by the time he started firing. That's murder no matter what. And no, I don't think pulling up to the wrong house at 2:00 am, even if it is a long driveway, in any way justifies the owner opening fire. Being wrong about a house you haven't been to before isn't a stupid prizes scenario in the slightest. If they were intentionally going up the wrong driveway, then you may be a little closer to that territory. 

Driving up a long driveway in the middle of the night out in the sticks is most likely to be criminal trespass (at least in Texas, not sure what the laws are like there), which is where things get sort of hairy.

[Nicole44 22060]

11 minutes ago, next2naus said:

Nextdoor is a blight, its all people bitching about shit and stirring the pot of fear

NextDoor is an orgy of racism…

(if posters don’t watch What We Do in the Shadows television series they won’t get the reference)

[SydneyCarton 48106]

8 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

 

It's a guy. But it took me a minute of considering, and the only reason I'm confident is the eyebrows. 

[Dahobbs 17534]

2 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Driving up a long driveway in the middle of the night out in the sticks is most likely to be criminal trespass (at least in Texas, not sure what the laws are like there), which is where things get sort of hairy.

No, no it isn't. From the Texas penal code:

Quote

 

A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:

(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or

(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

 

None of that applies in the scenario of accidentally driving up the wrong driveway. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

Would have been a lot better for all concerned if the dude had just put up a gate.

 

[You don't know me 1161]

I don't understand the world in which we live now.  First, I am a gun owner.  I don't carry, it stays in my house and is accessible (but not too accessible).  I live in a somewhat rural part of Missouri.  My house is on a hill and I have a pull through semi-circle drive in front.  I have people pull into my drive on a somewhat regular basis to turn around because they made a wrong turn.  If I'm outside when they pull into the driveway, I simply wave.  I have never once thought of going to retrieve my pistol.

[Brothahorn 10087]

I literally just got back from taking my dog on a walk and had a dude scream at me because my dog was pooping in his yard.  Never mind that I was standing right next to the dog unwrapping a plastic bag so I could pick it up.  I thought of this thread and decided I'm really lucky to be a white guy.

I would have shot you and said your dog was being racist towards me.

Gotta say I'm not a fan of dogs shitting in my yard. Even if the owner is there to clean up. But as long as it's between the sidewalk and street not much I can say. But if your dog is closer to my front door than the street, I will say something.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No, no it isn't. From the Texas penal code:

None of that applies in the scenario of accidentally driving up the wrong driveway. 

You need to look up what constitutes notice that the entry is forbidden. A sign, a fence, the presence of crops, and purple paint all constitute notice in Texas. So if any of those are present it is trespassing.

[GhostOfTomJoad 9324]

Our driveway apparently shows up on Google maps & other GPS sites as a Designated Turnaround site. It's a rare week when we don't have at least 2 or 3 cars use it to turnaround, probably because it's a little longer than most, our cars are always in the garage, and it's right in the mid-way point of the block where a Door Dash or uber eats driver might have overshot their destination. It's also the driveway where parents tell their young kids learning to ride their bikes that they can go that far, but then have to turn back come home. It never occurred to me that I was entitled to start blasting away at these cars and tykes on bikes who are obviously threatening our safety.

[You don't know me 1161]

1 minute ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Our driveway apparently shows up on Google maps & other GPS sites as a Designated Turnaround site. It's a rare week when we don't have at least 2 or 3 cars use it to turnaround, probably because it's a little longer than most, our cars are always in the garage, and it's right in the mid-way point of the block where a Door Dash or uber eats driver might have overshot their destination. It's also the driveway where parents tell their young kids learning to ride their bikes that they can go that far, but then half to turn back come home. It never occurred to me that I was entitled to start blasting away at these cars and tykes on bikes who are obviously threatening our safety.

Are you living in my attic?

[Dahobbs 17534]

4 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

You need to look up what constitutes notice that the entry is forbidden. A sign, a fence, the presence of crops, and purple paint all constitute notice in Texas. So if any of those are present it is trespassing.

No, it isn't, not if you think you're invited to the house. Being at the wrong house isn't criminal trespass. Intent matters. 

[irishtexan 11519]

29 minutes ago, next2naus said:

Nextdoor is a blight, its all people bitching about shit and stirring the pot of fear

Don't forget about the racism. There's lots of that on there too.

7 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Gotta say I'm not a fan of dogs shitting in my yard. Even if the owner is there to clean up. But as long as it's between the sidewalk and street not much I can say. But if your dog is closer to my front door than the street, I will say something.

Man don't decide where dog gonna take a shit. Dog does.

[Underdog 28642]

We've been in the area for 12yrs, quite surprised how redneck/trumpy the area is.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No, it isn't, not if you think you're invited to the house. Being at the wrong house isn't criminal trespass. Intent matters. 

Intent is a defense to the prosecution if this situation were one where the guy called the cops on them and had them arrested, but you are still legally trespassing from the perspective of the homeowner, and in Texas at least, it is a defense to the prosecution for the homeowner if you are trespassing at night and they shoot you.

[Wally Fairway 5550]

2 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

If cancer hadn't taken him first 2 years ago there's no doubt whatsoever by my wife and I that her father would have eventually shot someone--a family member, delivery driver, neighbor--who made the mistake of driving onto the ranch property unannounced. He wanted to kill someone while "defending his property" before he died.

This douchebag murderer in NY looks like he fulfilled a similar fantasy.

My FIL was the same way, though the prevailing thought within the family was he more at risk to shoot himself by accident.  He had guns out by his TV remote, in the kitchen and near his bed. Asked him once why he needed so many guns he replied to protect himself from being robbed; so I asked what he thought they would want to steal; he said his guns. He was pissed at me when I said that was why I didn't have any guns at my house. 
It isn't just the olds that shoot at people they shouldn't, but many olds don't have a clear mind in their decisions. Just another sad day; maybe we should all start to wear body armor. 

[Brisketexan 105142]

15 minutes ago, You don't know me said:

I don't understand the world in which we live now.  First, I am a gun owner.  I don't carry, it stays in my house and is accessible (but not too accessible).  I live in a somewhat rural part of Missouri.  My house is on a hill and I have a pull through semi-circle drive in front.  I have people pull into my drive on a somewhat regular basis to turn around because they made a wrong turn.  If I'm outside when they pull into the driveway, I simply wave.  I have never once thought of going to retrieve my pistol.

Because you are a sane human being and not a fucking psychopath.

We have a shitload of psychopaths.  And we create more of them, and CELEBRATE them.  That's completely fucked up.  I mean, it's a bit weird -- again, I think that guns are an inextricable PART of the problem, but the nutbar 2nd amendment reaction to any shooting of "BUT IT'S MENTAL HEALTH!" is not wrong.  But they won't like the actual way that it's "not wrong."  We've turned a huge swath of our population into a cult that worships instruments of death, and builds their identity around their possession (and inevitably, their use).  That's a sick, sick fucking society.

[aggie08 21504]

16 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

I would have shot you and said your dog was being racist towards me.

Gotta say I'm not a fan of dogs shitting in my yard. Even if the owner is there to clean up. But as long as it's between the sidewalk and street not much I can say. But if your dog is closer to my front door than the street, I will say something.

No offense dude, but pony up for a gated community, or find a piece of land set back from the main roads. Otherwise, people walking their animals on your property is part and parcel with owning a home with a public sidewalk in front of it. Build a one foot doggie fence if it really bothers you. I just can't imagine saying anything to someone over that.

[Brothahorn 10087]

https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/kaylin-gillis-shot-and-killed-by-upstate-ny-homeowner-sheriff?utm_source=nypost&utm_campaign=android_nyp

Pictures of property.

[You don't know me 1161]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Because you are a sane human being and not a fucking psychopath.

We have a shitload of psychopaths.  And we create more of them, and CELEBRATE them.  That's completely fucked up.  I mean, it's a bit weird -- again, I think that guns are an inextricable PART of the problem, but the nutbar 2nd amendment reaction to any shooting of "BUT IT'S MENTAL HEALTH!" is not wrong.  But they won't like the actual way that it's "not wrong."  We've turned a huge swath of our population into a cult that worships instruments of death, and builds their identity around their possession (and inevitably, their use).  That's a sick, sick fucking society.

Gotta be honest, I'm pro second amendment.  That being said, you are absolutely correct.  Our society is beyond fucked up.  We are well down this dark path and I don't think that we can course correct.  People are just so angry about everything.  I'm legitimately scared for my kids because of the world that we have created.

[Celery Man 20950]

I thought they outlawed bumper crops

[mdmost 43001]

52 minutes ago, next2naus said:

Nextdoor is a blight, its all people bitching about shit and stirring the pot of fear

I'm always amazed at when I bother to check NextDoor just how awful Dallas truly is. Everything is crime, homeless, package thieves, bitching about council members and police response times. I honestly am not sure why these people continue to choose to live in Dallas and not just move to one of the whiter suburbs. Then I realize they are going to be like this wherever they choose to reside. There are just people in this country who love to bitch. My buddy who lives in McKinney says his NextDoor feed is no different than mine. Same shit, different area. 

[Celery Man 20950]

And what does the civilized world do for protecting yourself from trespassers? Like if someone is technically trespassing in a place like Germany and you murder them, is that just your right? I’m beginning to think we have too many mentally ill people with guns like this guy, the one who shot the kid at the wrong door, the ones who killed Ahmaud Arbery, the one who drove into a crowd and then “defended” himself, etc - I don’t think that we can handle being technically allowed to kill people in as many situations as we currently are.

[royiv 9317]

12 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I'm always amazed at when I bother to check NextDoor just how awful Dallas truly is. Everything is crime, homeless, package thieves, bitching about council members and police response times. I honestly am not sure why these people continue to choose to live in Dallas and not just move to one of the whiter suburbs. Then I realize they are going to be like this wherever they choose to reside. There are just people in this country who love to bitch. My buddy who lives in McKinney says his NextDoor feed is no different than mine. Same shit, different area. 

Reading nextdoor will make you think that you live in Fallujah, no matter where you actually reside.

[gmr548 16580]

Too many details missing from the article to really get a picture of what happened.

• How long and how remote was the driveway? 
• Did they turn in and then start to turn around to leave? 
• What time of day was this?  
• If it was at night, did the driver have/leave their lights on?
• Did the driver stop on the driveway for some period of time?

 
Two contrasting scenarios that fit the minimal data points we have:

Let's say it was a quarter-mile long driveway not within sight of any neighbor, and let's say this was at 2am and the diver turned their light out halfway up the driveway and then rolled quietly up near the house where they parked and waited.  That starts bordering on Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes territory. 

or

Let's say it was a 50yd driveway with 3 or 4 neighbors within a quarter mile off a somewhat busy road at 2pm and the car turned in, drove a few car lengths, and started to turn around to leave.   This is flat out murder.

 
 
 
 

It’s flat out murder either way you sociopath

[Steel Shank 9425]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

There's a lot of reasons to kill random strangers, but this ain't one of them.

 

2 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

What's next, shooting the construction workers who park their truck outside my house for the guy building a pool two doors down? 

And there you have it.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

2 hours ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Didn't this happen in Kyle a couple years ago to an Indian man in his 20's?

Moroccan.

https://www.newson6.com/story/617709a1f071020beecbb621/homeowner-charged-with-murder-after-shooting-motorist-who-had-pulled-into-his-driveway

[You don't know me 1161]

2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

It’s flat out murder either way you sociopath

Yeah, first situation, if I happen to even know that they are there at 2AM, I'm turning on an inside light and waiting/watching to see what they do.  I can also tell you that if someone broke into my outbuilding and was in the process of taking anything from it, they can have it.  I'm endangering my family over "stuff".  If they try to break into the house, that's a different story.

[aggie08 21504]

6 minutes ago, royiv said:

Reading nextdoor will make you think that you live in Fallujah, no matter where you actually reside.

Apparently, there's been 37 gunshots that have gone off in my neighborhood in the last week alone!

[HamsterHookah 112]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Apparently, there's been 37 gunshots that have gone off in my neighborhood in the last week alone!

Somehow I'm not surprised to learn this.

[Beau Vine 54230]

59 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

I would have shot you and said your dog was being racist towards me.

Gotta say I'm not a fan of dogs shitting in my yard. Even if the owner is there to clean up. But as long as it's between the sidewalk and street not much I can say. But if your dog is closer to my front door than the street, I will say something.

It was right by the street.  I have literally never seen anyone walk their dog up into my yard so it can take a shit.  You must have some major assholes in your neighborhood if that's happening to you.

[Pato del Muerto 52498]

13 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Apparently, there's been 37 gunshots that have gone off in my neighborhood in the last week alone!

In a row?

[aggie08 21504]

9 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Somehow I'm not surprised to learn this.

Learn what? That everyone's neighborhood is full of Karens that conflate every moderately loud noise that they hear with gangland violence?

[HamsterHookah 112]

11 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

It was right by the street.  I have literally never seen anyone walk their dog up into my yard so it can take a shit.  You must have some major assholes in your neighborhood if that's happening to you.

Yep. That is a bridge too far and unless that person woke up choosing violence, I can't see it casually happening.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

Y'all've never seen one of those retractable leashes that lets your dog wander 20 or 30 feet from you? Some folks will let their pet go as far as it wants to poop.

[You don't know me 1161]

There's this guy that walks his dog every morning by our house.  His dog likes to shit in our yard.  To be honest, I don't really care.  

[Brothahorn 10087]

It was right by the street.  I have literally never seen anyone walk their dog up into my yard so it can take a shit.  You must have some major assholes in your neighborhood if that's happening to you.

It was 2-3 feet from the front porch. The first couple of times, we just wrote it off. But then it became a couple of times a week, all on weekdays. So, I asked her very nicely to keep her dog closer to the sidewalk and her fat ass out of my yard. Especially since they were passing up quite a bit of grass to get there.

Found out later that she and the wife had mean mugged each other at the neighborhood Walmart.

[Deej 76793]

29 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Apparently, there's been 37 gunshots that have gone off in my neighborhood in the last week alone!

My neighborhood laughs at this. 

37 in a week?

[irishtexan 11519]

5 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

It was 2-3 feet from the front porch. The first couple of times, we just wrote it off. But then it became a couple of times a week, all on weekdays. So, I asked her very nicely to keep her dog closer to the sidewalk and her fat ass out of my yard. Especially since they were passing up quite a bit of grass to get there.

Oh. Yeah. That's not ok. Dog gets to shit within the radius of a normal non-retractable leash. And owner has to pick it up. And then put it in your mailbox. 

Also, stop using retractable leashes people. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

What happened to just leaving it on the porch in a flaming paper bag? Do people have no decency anymore?

[aggie08 21504]

12 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

It was 2-3 feet from the front porch. The first couple of times, we just wrote it off. But then it became a couple of times a week, all on weekdays. So, I asked her very nicely to keep her dog closer to the sidewalk and her fat ass out of my yard. Especially since they were passing up quite a bit of grass to get there.

Found out later that she and the wife had mean mugged each other at the neighborhood Walmart.

Fair enough. You made it sound like anything on the house side of the sidewalk is a reason to open the door and comment.

[Royalfan5 2354]

I'm just curious how many people here have actually had a package swiped off their porch too? I can't say that I have out of a good sized sample size in a very mixed income area of the world.(And they probably can't tell that they'd be swiping a 900 page book on life in the USSR either ahead of time either)