Woman shot and killed after car she was in pulled into the wrong driveway

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I'm just curious how many people here have actually had a package swiped off their porch too? I can't say that I have out of a good sized sample size in a very mixed income area of the world.(And they probably can't tell that they'd be swiping a 900 page book on life in the USSR either ahead of time either)

I have never had a package stolen from my front porch. And holy Christ, if you are married like I am, there are like 2-3 packages at the door every fucking day.

[UnivTex34 1763]

Just now, Royalfan5 said:

I'm just curious how many people here have actually had a package swiped off their porch too? I can't say that I have out of a good sized sample size in a very mixed income area of the world.(And they probably can't tell that they'd be swiping a 900 page book on life in the USSR either ahead of time either)

Pre-Austin bomber, we were lucky if we only got 50% of our packages swiped a week. This is in 78748. Pretty sure it was a particular group of high schoolers that was doing it on the way home from school, as about half of the things we would find stripped out of the box down the block, if it wasn't something they were interested in.

Hasn't happened since.

[Guadaloopy 10971]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

They not we.

 

[Wally Fairway 5550]

1 hour ago, You don't know me said:

Are you living in my attic?

Ghost you don't have to answer that, it could be a trap

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 minute ago, Guadaloopy said:

 

I assure you that I had nothing to do with you enthusiastically allowing yourself to be brainwashed over the last 30 years.  You are an enemy of a functional republic and will be treated as such until your behavior changes.  In the very fucking unlikely event you do change, and begin behaving like something resembling a reasonable human being, you will be allowed back in the room, but we’ll keep a real close eye on you.

[Eskimohorn 5635]

I think everyone on this board has had some run-ins. I don't know if these run-ins are more likely to lead to violence these days, if it is just the increase in centralized populations that lead to increased violence, or if it is simply just reported more because of social media. My guess is that all three things are happening simultaneously.

In college my buddy got out of our car to take a piss outside some West Campus apartment. Dude in his underwear gets out with a shotgun and chases us away. I dont recollect whether he shot at us or not, but when I tell the story he fires a warning shot.

[Wally Fairway 5550]

1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/kaylin-gillis-shot-and-killed-by-upstate-ny-homeowner-sheriff?utm_source=nypost&utm_campaign=android_nyp

Pictures of property.

what kind of gun, that is a hell of a shot; downhill, at night. fuck how did he even know they had pulled into the driveway

this shit makes me nervous thinking about our drive to Florida; we missed a turn between Nashville & Chattanooga. My son was driving so we pulled into a driveway to turnaround, not much traffic but it was curvy & hilly and just after we turned around (looked like a hillbilly house) a pickup pulled into the driveway and gave an evil stare. May have literally dodge a bullet right there

[Guadaloopy 10971]

2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I assure you that I had nothing to do with you enthusiastically allowing yourself to be brainwashed over the last 30 years.  You are an enemy of a functional republic and will be treated as such until your behavior changes.  In the very fucking unlikely event you do change, and begin behaving like something resembling a reasonable human being, you will be allowed back in the room, but we’ll keep a real close eye on you.

Thank you for further illustrating my point.  Ol' boy with the itchy trigger finger was probably pretty deep into "othering" the fellow human beings that kept driving by his property and decided to finally do something about it.   

Down that path lies ruin.  

[Brothahorn 10087]

what kind of gun, that is a hell of a shot; downhill, at night. fuck how did he even know they had pulled into the driveway
this shit makes me nervous thinking about our drive to Florida; we missed a turn between Nashville & Chattanooga. My son was driving so we pulled into a driveway to turnaround, not much traffic but it was curvy & hilly and just after we turned around (looked like a hillbilly house) a pickup pulled into the driveway and gave an evil stare. May have literally dodge a bullet right there

Same either she was closer than that picture or this guy is Bob, the Nailer.

[Nivek 16930]

Delete : failed humor

[52-80 19159]

3 hours ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Too many details missing from the article to really get a picture of what happened.

• How long and how remote was the driveway? 
• Did they turn in and then start to turn around to leave? 
• What time of day was this?  
• If it was at night, did the driver have/leave their lights on?
• Did the driver stop on the driveway for some period of time?

 

And: is her family getting invited to the white house?

[52-80 19159]

5 hours ago, Bevo said:

I think everyone on this board has had some run-ins. I don't know if these run-ins are more likely to lead to violence these days, if it is just the increase in centralized populations that lead to increased violence, or if it is simply just reported more because of social media. My guess is that all three things are happening simultaneously.

violent crimes slowly up

most other crimes, particularly non-violent ones like arson, have dropped steadily over the long term

[52-80 19159]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Because you are a sane human being and not a fucking psychopath.

We have a shitload of psychopaths.  And we create more of them, and CELEBRATE them.  That's completely fucked up.  I mean, it's a bit weird -- again, I think that guns are an inextricable PART of the problem, but the nutbar 2nd amendment reaction to any shooting of "BUT IT'S MENTAL HEALTH!" is not wrong.  But they won't like the actual way that it's "not wrong."  We've turned a huge swath of our population into a cult that worships instruments of death, and builds their identity around their possession (and inevitably, their use).  That's a sick, sick fucking society.

What does this typical cult member and their instrument of death look like ?

[SimonBolivar 10958]

17 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

violent crimes slowly up

most other crimes, particularly non-violent ones like arson, have dropped steadily over the long term

Yeah that's not a big rise and if you'd throw the long term data out there....

 

[Celery Man 20950]

Hey guys just because some of you may need to hear it - even if you’re you have had Amazon packages stolen, you don’t need to murder.

[aggie08 21504]

2 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Hey guys just because some of you may need to hear it - even if you’re you have had Amazon packages stolen, you don’t need to murder.

Sure. 

...but can you? 

[52-80 19159]

13 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Yeah that's not a big rise and if you'd throw the long term data out there....

 

Yeah thats true too. Thats what i remembered seeing before as part of long term decline across all categories, but on mobile the website only displayed a 10yr range

[Brisketexan 105142]

21 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

What does this typical cult member and their instrument of death look like ?

Typical?  I guess TYPICAL is pretty rednecky white male-y.  But you and I both know there's quite a range of such people.  It ain't about what they look like.  It's about what they believe, and how they view the world and their place in it.

The overlap of such people and devoted Fox News watchers is pretty significant.  So, whatever people who watch a lot of Fox News look like, that's pretty close to the "typical."  

[Dahobbs 17534]

3 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Intent is a defense to the prosecution if this situation were one where the guy called the cops on them and had them arrested, but you are still legally trespassing from the perspective of the homeowner, and in Texas at least, it is a defense to the prosecution for the homeowner if you are trespassing at night and they shoot you.

No, intent is an element. The state must prove that defendant intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly entered the property of another when not permitted. Matter of D.L., 541 S.W.3d 917, 920 (Tex. App. 2018); Texas Dep't of Pub. Safety v. Axt, 292 S.W.3d 736, 739 (Tex. App. 2009). You don't commit criminal trespass when you think you're somewhere you're invited to be. 

[Brothahorn 10087]

Hey guys just because some of you may need to hear it - even if you’re you have had Amazon packages stolen, you don’t need to murder.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5400]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

No, intent is an element. The state must prove that defendant intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly entered the property of another when not permitted. Matter of D.L., 541 S.W.3d 917, 920 (Tex. App. 2018); Texas Dep't of Pub. Safety v. Axt, 292 S.W.3d 736, 739 (Tex. App. 2009). You don't commit criminal trespass when you think you're somewhere you're invited to be. 

Yep, which is why it's almost always a bad idea to shoot first and ask questions later. I've owned guns since I was a teenager and got a CC license as soon as I turned 21. 

I cannot image a situation where I would not at least say one command/question before firing a gun at another person, especially if they are not pointing a weapon at me. 

[Bevo 13577]

2 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

In college my buddy got out of our car to take a piss outside some West Campus apartment. Dude in his underwear gets out with a shotgun and chases us away. I dont recollect whether he shot at us or not, but when I tell the story he fires a warning shot.

I'm surprised more people on here don't have stories like that. I thought it was fairly common.

[52-80 19159]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Typical?  I guess TYPICAL is pretty rednecky white male-y.  But you and I both know there's quite a range of such people.  It ain't about what they look like.  It's about what they believe, and how they view the world and their place in it.

Okay, you dont like their views and beliefs…but is this “huge swath” your most pointed problem in society if they kill with their guns rarely, and when they do its only to kill themselves (suicide)?

[Brisketexan 105142]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

Okay, you dont like their views and beliefs…but is this “huge swath” your most pointed problem in society if they kill with their guns rarely, and when they do its only to kill themselves (suicide)?

[SydneyCarton 48106]

Well, today in other threads on this site, I learned that blasting someone is justified if they stole something from you. When these teenagers pulled up into this guys driveway, the 30 seconds or so of his life he lost looking out the window and being scared is time that he'll never get back. Ergo, it was cool to fucking attempt to murder them all. 

Sadly, it's probably only a matter of time before this line of thought gets mainstream acceptance by certain people. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Well, today in other threads on this site, I learned that blasting someone is justified if they stole something from you. When these teenagers pulled up into this guys driveway, the 30 seconds or so of his life he lost looking out the window and being scared is time that he'll never get back. Ergo, it was cool to fucking attempt to murder them all. 

Sadly, it's probably only a matter of time before this line of thought gets mainstream acceptance by certain people. 

By certain people do you mean the governor of Texas?

[52-80 19159]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Your ‘death cult’ only cause a low rate of death, factually

[52-80 19159]

13 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Well, today in other threads on this site, I learned that blasting someone is justified if they stole something from you.

Can both statements be simultaneously true:

(1) being blasted at is not a legally or morally justified response to theft

(2) being shot at is a relatively likely response to theft (should you choose to engage in it)
 

[Dahobbs 17534]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Your ‘death cult’ only cause a low rate of death, factually

Weird. This low rate of death is the number 1 killer of children, the majority of which are caused by homicide. 

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/22/1094364930/firearms-leading-cause-of-death-in-children

Quote

 

For decades, auto accidents have been the leading cause of death among children, but in 2020 guns were the No. 1 cause, researchers say.

Overall firearm-related deaths increased 13.5% between 2019 and 2020, but such fatalities for those 1 to 19 years old jumped nearly 30%, according to a research letter in New England Journal of Medicine.

* * *

The figures between adults and children and firearms are almost an inverted image of each other. For adults, 65% of gun related deaths are attributed to suicide, while 30% are homicides and about 2% come from accidental discharges, Carter said. For children, 65% of firearm deaths are homicides and 35% are categorized as suicide, he said.

 

 

[Foosters 17856]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Weird. This low rate of death is the number 1 killer of children, the majority of which are caused by homicide. 

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/22/1094364930/firearms-leading-cause-of-death-in-children

 

in 2020, there were only 45,000 people killed by guns in the US.

To put that in perspective, there are over 3.5 million square miles in the US.

[SydneyCarton 48106]

13 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Can both statements be simultaneously true:

(1) being blasted at is not a legally or morally justified response to theft

(2) being shot at is a relatively likely response to theft (should you choose to engage in it)
 

1.) Yes. this can be true. It should be true. And yet I see posters showing up absolutely saying it is a legally and morally right response to theft. I'm addressing those people.
2.) No, I do not believe this to be true. For starters, I feel like statistically most people get away with petty theft. If getting shot and/or killed was a LIKELY response to theft, there would probably be a lot less theft. Which is how many would have it. And I also think that it's fair to point out that no state, not even Texas or Tennessee or Florida or anywhere else has the death penalty for shoplifting. Or even armed fucking robbery. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[52-80 19159]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Weird. This low rate of death is the number 1 killer of children, the majority of which are caused by homicide. 

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/22/1094364930/firearms-leading-cause-of-death-in-children

 

Weird, i wasn’t aware children were staunch supporters of 2A. 

The majority of “children” (which is defined with age cutoff of 19) killed in firearm homicides were….gang shootings in urban environment. 

I’m not aware that gangs are politically active around 2A. 

The white rednecks toting AR15 and other rifles…they ‘only’ suicide themselves, and their rifles involved in 3% of all firearms homicide  

[royiv 9317]

32 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Well, today in other threads on this site, I learned that blasting someone is justified if they stole something from you. When these teenagers pulled up into this guys driveway, the 30 seconds or so of his life he lost looking out the window and being scared is time that he'll never get back. Ergo, it was cool to fucking attempt to murder them all. 

Sadly, it's probably only a matter of time before this line of thought gets mainstream acceptance by certain people. 

He was just protecting his castle.

[SydneyCarton 48106]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

Weird, i wasn’t aware children were staunch supporters of 2A. 

The majority of “children” (which is defined with age cutoff of 19) killed in firearm homicides were….gang shootings in urban environment. 

I’m not aware that gangs are politically active around 2A. 

The white rednecks toting AR15 and other rifles…they ‘only’ suicide themselves, and their rifles involved in 3% of all firearms homicide  

First, there's a lot of assumptions in this post. You say that a majority of those shootings are gang shootings in urban environments, well, support that data. Maybe you're right, but you should support it. Because I've got to tell you, the second assumption in your post, which I've bolded, really doesn't seem to hold up. White Rednecks only "suicide" themselves.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting

 

The Sutherland Springs church shooting occurred on November 5, 2017, when Devin Patrick Kelley, of New Braunfels, Texas, perpetrated a mass shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Kelley killed 26 people, including an unborn child and wounded 22 others, before killing himself. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/who-is-devin-patrick-kelley-gunman-who-officials-say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/

 

 

[royiv 9317]

15 minutes ago, Foosters said:

in 2020, there were only 45,000 people killed by guns in the US.

To put that in perspective, there are over 3.5 million square miles in the US.

[52-80 19159]

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

2.) No, I do not believe this to be true. For starters, I feel like statistically most people get away with petty theft. If getting shot and/or killed was a LIKELY response to theft, there would probably be a lot less theft. Which is how many would have it.

What do you suggest as a viable deterrent to theft: more policing? more shooting?

The point is, being shot at or attacked is a higher likelihood relative to ..er... not engaging in theft.  So not engaging in theft seems like a statistically sound way to not invite high risk of harm onto yourself. 

Quote

And I also think that it's fair to point out that no state, not even Texas or Tennessee or Florida or anywhere else has the death penalty for shoplifting. Or even armed fucking robbery. 

Why does it need pointing out when nobody here advocated for death penalty as punishing for shoplifting, or even armed robbery?

[Brisketexan 105142]

27 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Your ‘death cult’ only cause a low rate of death, factually

If you think that toxic selfishness and obsession with viewing every other human as a threat is not causing massive collateral damage socially, you do you.

It's not much different than the more isolated phenomenon back in the day of gangbangers and such taking deadly action against someone for disrepsecting them.  The undercurrent of all of it is a cheapness of human life, particularly any life but your own.

We have more firearms homicides than any other developed nation.  Part of it is because of how many guns we have and the ease of use and possession.  And a part of it is the attitude of the individuals behind the gun.  Believe me, don't believe me, I don't much care.  I sure know it won't make a difference anyway.  We are dead-set on selfishing our country to death, and we're not gonna be slowed down.

[SydneyCarton 48106]

Just now, 52-80 said:

What do you suggest as a viable deterrent to theft: more policing? more shooting?

The point is, being shot at or attacked is a higher likelihood relative to ..er... not engaging in theft.  So not engaging in theft seems like a statistically sound way to not invite high risk of harm onto yourself. 

Why does it need pointing out when nobody here advocated for death penalty as punishing for shoplifting, or even armed robbery?

I'll be honest, I'm not sure there truly is a deterrent to theft. Theft has been taking place since the beginning of time and will continue to exist until the end of it. In the old west, you could get hung for stealing a horse, no trial, no nothing. And yet people still fucking stole horses. Because there will always be those that will take from other people. It's almost like it was addressed at the time in the 10 commandments. 

Why does it need pointing out? Because what that guy did amounts to a pretty massive case of shoplifting, or unarmed robbery, and he was murdered without due process and there are people on several threads here advocating that this is perfectly acceptable behavior. That's a vigilante death penalty. If you don't want that pointed out, then stop defending it. 

 

[52-80 19159]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

First, there's a lot of assumptions in this post. You say that a majority of those shootings are gang shootings in urban environments, well, support that data. Maybe you're right, but you should support it. Because I've got to tell you, the second assumption in your post, which I've bolded, really doesn't seem to hold up. White Rednecks only "suicide" themselves.

2011-2021

or if you want the written summary

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

Quote

In 2020, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available, according to the FBI. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7119e1.htm?s_cid=mm7119e1_w

Quote

the firearm homicide rate among Black males aged 10–24 years was 20.6 times as high as the rate among White males of the same age in 2019, and this ratio increased to 21.6 in 2020

Bunch of snippets from various institutional analyses, but almost all are pulled from the same FBI data collection

 

[Brisketexan 105142]

2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

2011-2021

or if you want the written summary

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7119e1.htm?s_cid=mm7119e1_w

Bunch of snippets from various institutional analyses, but almost all are pulled from the same FBI data collection

 

Ummm....you realize the phenomenon of "people shooting other people with way too little provocation or reason" isn't confined to AR platforms, right?

[52-80 19159]

10 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Why does it need pointing out? Because what that guy did amounts to a pretty massive case of shoplifting, or unarmed robbery, and he was murdered without due process and there are people on several threads here advocating that this is perfectly acceptable behavior.

Those people have the tenor more like "yeah that guy will/should be found guilty; but i have no sympathy for the thief".

Quote

I'll be honest, I'm not sure there truly is a deterrent to theft. Theft has been taking place since the beginning of time and will continue to exist until the end of it. In the old west, you could get hung for stealing a horse, no trial, no nothing. And yet people still fucking stole horses. Because there will always be those that will take from other people. It's almost like it was addressed at the time in the 10 commandments

Agreed, crime will never go to zero.  Doesn't help that there are other posts negligent of the initial aggressor, and only critical of the employee's response.

[52-80 19159]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Ummm....you realize the phenomenon of "people shooting other people with way too little provocation or reason" isn't confined to AR platforms, right?

You realize the AR platform, a.k.a. "assault rifles", is the demonized posterchild for the 2A discussion as the great societal danger when its actual use runs contrary to that narrative?

[YGIFS 19450]

Aren't the vast majority of handgun deaths either suicide, homicide where the victim knew the shooter (domestic and what-not), or drug crime related where it was kind of an Omar "All in the Game" situation?  

[mooseoutfront 3643]

8 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

If cancer hadn't taken him first 2 years ago there's no doubt whatsoever by my wife and I that her father would have eventually shot someone--a family member, delivery driver, neighbor--who made the mistake of driving onto the ranch property unannounced. He wanted to kill someone while "defending his property" before he died.

This douchebag murderer in NY looks like he fulfilled a similar fantasy.

I did not have "Thankful for a cancer death" on my bingo card.  But it is a Tuesday.  If I'm rooting for cancer, it had to happen on a Tuesday.

When did aging rural white males become such pussies?  They used to be some of the nicest, accommodating people I'd ever been around, and I say this as an aging rural white male.

[Shaddie 1651]

8 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

There's a lot of reasons to kill random strangers, but this ain't one of them.

CJK is this you?

 

[Brisketexan 105142]

7 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

You realize the AR platform, a.k.a. "assault rifles", is the demonized posterchild for the 2A discussion as the great societal danger when its actual use runs contrary to that narrative?

Yeah, I'm not engaging in or interested in your strawman.  My point was in no way, shape, or form limited to the AR platform.  You want to argue against someone taking that position, go find them and have at it.

We have a cult of guns.  Not just the AR, although that platform is definitely one of the tacticoolest high holy sacraments.  But tactical shotguns, handguns, what have you - ALL are sacraments of the cult.  The guy who answers his door with a Sig, or with a Remington 870, making the person on the other side give him a reason NOT to shoot them, is the phenomenon that I'm speaking to.

We have too many guns, of all types, floating around.  And we worship them and the use of them.  And, because the use of a gun is inherently about use by one person AGAINST another, it is inextricably tied to our pure selfishness, our toxic ME-ism, rendering all of our fellow humans mere "them." 

The problem is this dichotomy:

Situation 1: someone knocks on my door at 10:00 at night.  I am cautious, but at least give the benefit of the doubt and talk to the person through my door and ask who they are/what they want.  I realize the confusion, tell him he's got the wrong hous.

Situation 2: Same knock on the door, I start blasting because I always have my gun at my side and this is my castle and BLAMMO!

IDGAF if situation 2 is with an AR or grandpa's over/under 12 gauge.  Our society has a fucked up crisis of toxic individualism, and when you introduce a cult that celebrates instruments of death as the highest symbol of the social order, that's going to lead to shitty outcomes.

[Shaddie 1651]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

All of these.

The guns are absolutely a problem.  But our collective psychology AROUND guns is also a big fucking problem.

As I've mentioned before, in the late 80s, I often had a gun in my car, on my high school campus.  And administration knew about it, one of them even helped us transfer (cased) shotguns between cars on a Friday afternoon before we headed off on a hunting trip.  It never occurred to us to use our guns in anger.  It just wasn't part of our collective mental toolkit.  Now, we have a whole cult that 1) has been programmed to be constantly terrified, and 2) is actually looking for a reason to use their gun "to protect myself and my castle!"

We've created a fucked up culture, and it really is a creature of the past 30 years or so.  AND, we've armed the shit out of that cult.  The poisonous tree we planted is now bearing a bumper crop of deadly fruit.

This. 
 

If you have ever been to Israel and spent some time in taxis you probably saw a handgun. (At least for me 20 years ago). Personal protection. No. Certain reservists were required to carry. Don’t know if law has changed. I was there for 5 weeks and we had same driver lots of days. About once a day he would get in an argument with someone on the road or walking.  Nobody was afraid cause they love to argue but nobody thinks of settling it with a gun. 

[Brisketexan 105142]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, I'm not engaging in or interested in your strawman.  My point was in no way, shape, or form limited to the AR platform.  You want to argue against someone taking that position, go find them and have at it.

We have a cult of guns.  Not just the AR, although that platform is definitely one of the tacticoolest high holy sacraments.  But tactical shotguns, handguns, what have you - ALL are sacraments of the cult.  The guy who answers his door with a Sig, or with a Remington 870, making the person on the other side give him a reason NOT to shoot them, is the phenomenon that I'm speaking to.

We have too many guns, of all types, floating around.  And we worship them and the use of them.  And, because the use of a gun is inherently about use by one person AGAINST another, it is inextricably tied to our pure selfishness, our toxic ME-ism, rendering all of our fellow humans mere "them." 

The problem is this dichotomy:

Situation 1: someone knocks on my door at 10:00 at night.  I am cautious, but at least give the benefit of the doubt and talk to the person through my door and ask who they are/what they want.  I realize the confusion, tell him he's got the wrong hous.

Situation 2: Same knock on the door, I start blasting because I always have my gun at my side and this is my castle and BLAMMO!

IDGAF if situation 2 is with an AR or grandpa's over/under 12 gauge.  Our society has a fucked up crisis of toxic individualism, and when you introduce a cult that celebrates instruments of death as the highest symbol of the social order, that's going to lead to shitty outcomes.

Couldn't edit in time:

What we need is a society that defaults to finding ways NOT to hurt our fellow man, to bend over backwards both to avoid doing harm, and to actually HELP.  Instead of defaulting to "some fucker gives me a reason, I'll waste his ass."  I've told the story here multiple times about choosing NOT to take a gun with me when investigating an intruder, who turned out to be a harmless bum cooking a steak.  As a result, I didn't shoot anyone, and he didn't get shot.  That's a huge win, all the way around.  Because I simply chose a path of NOT escalating.  Because I knew and know that guns are fucking serious business.  They aren't a toy, or talisman, or something that makes me an American patriot badass.  They are a tool for taking a human life.  And I'm not God, so I really think it's best if I avoid getting into the "life taking business."  I don't ever want to kill a fellow human being, because goddammit, they're fucking human beings.  Killing someone is BAD.  It's awful.  It's the worst possible outcome.  And instead of thinking that way....we celebrate violence.  We celebrate carrying, displaying, and using instruments of death.  That's fucked up.  I'm comfortable reaching that conclusion.

[52-80 19159]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, I'm not engaging in or interested in your strawman.  My point was in no way, shape, or form limited to the AR platform. 

…

IDGAF if situation 2 is with an AR or grandpa's over/under 12 gauge.  Our society has a fucked up crisis of toxic individualism, and when you introduce a cult that celebrates instruments of death as the highest symbol of the social order, that's going to lead to shitty outcomes.

Okay, lets forget the specificity of the AR and lump it in with all firearms. 

Youre not interested in strawman but didnt you construct one as a white rednecky Fox News watcher?

How often are those people shooting and killing someone else? Decades of homicide data doesnt record TV preference but you can find the rest. They also record age so you can find out how often grampy is there firing his shotgun.

[Beau Vine 54230]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

What does this typical cult member and their instrument of death look like ?