Woman shot and killed after car she was in pulled into the wrong driveway

[Brisketexan 105463]

10 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Youre not interested in strawman but didnt you construct one as a white rednecky Fox News watcher?

Strawman?  No.  I don't think I did.

 

No guarantees, of course.....but if you and I had to make a wager on whether those two fellas (who just shot unarmed people in the past few days) watched more than 4 hours of Fox News per week...which side of the wager would you want?

And AGAIN, it's about more than just the final body count.  It's about the complete fucking selfish depravity of a movement that is one of the dominant ones in our society.   The utter lack of human empathy or connection -- it's all about ME, and protecting MY SACRED CASTLE, instead of having a scintilla of humanity and perspective and empathy for the fact that on the other side of the door is a human being.  It doesn't always result in death.  Maybe it results in calling the cops on a kid who just knocked on the wrong door.  Maybe it results in a huge neighborhood squabble because you accuse a kid of wrongdoing just because he knocked on your door.

Fucking human decency, man.  We should emphasize that 10% as much as we emphasize the cult of the gun, and we'd be a lot better off.

[Eskimohorn 5644]

You realize the AR platform, a.k.a. "assault rifles", is the demonized posterchild for the 2A discussion as the great societal danger when its actual use runs contrary to that narrative?

There are four gun violence crises plaguing the US that other industrialized nations do not experience. Consequently, our peers are happier and because they are happier they have less violence.

We have a gang violence issue, which is not as bad as it was, but we’re leading the league so to speak.

We have terroristic attacks against civilian populations by mass shooters. These are the “demonized poster children” as you describe it. They’re not tolerated in other countries beyond sporadic incidents.

We have domestic violence, mostly with men shooting their family members. Not happening in our peer countries.

And we have a suicides gun crisis. Whether accidental or not, gun safety legislation could save countless lives and help communities be safer, which is the intent of the 2A.

We can take your post-modern interpretation of 2A to the Cloak Room, in addition to your pit-bull arguments for the AR-15 and use of “air quotes”.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I'm just curious how many people here have actually had a package swiped off their porch too? I can't say that I have out of a good sized sample size in a very mixed income area of the world.(And they probably can't tell that they'd be swiping a 900 page book on life in the USSR either ahead of time either)

I never have.

And I probably get 3-10 packages a week, depending on the week.

[Shaddie 1651]

4 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

I never have.

And I probably get 3-10 packages a week, depending on the week.

My theft deterrent is 2 jack russels. My sign says “not responsible for ankles”. So far 0 thefts. 
 

 

[52-80 19271]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

No guarantees, of course.....but if you and I had to make a wager on whether those two fellas (who just shot unarmed people in the past few days) watched more than 4 hours of Fox News per week...which side of the wager would you want?

 

I will wager for you.  Old men do indeed overindex to Fox News.

Now can you put these 2 men in context of the 100,000+ recorded firearms homicide in the last decade?

If you got in an argument with 100 old men, and 100 young men in their 20s, which would you wager would get you shot?  Even knowing old men have a higher rate of gun ownership.

 

[YGIFS 19452]

Lotta words to whine, "Chicago?!?!"

[Brisketexan 105463]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

I will wager for you.  Old men do indeed overindex to Fox News.

Now can you put these 2 men in context of the 100,000+ recorded firearms homicide in the last decade?

If you got in an argument with 100 old men, and 100 young men in their 20s, which would you wager would get you shot?  Even knowing old men have a higher rate of gun ownership.

 

Two separate problems, although there is overlap with the core problem of selfish narcissism and the complete lack of human empathy.

Not sure why you're choosing to die on this hill.  And, not sure why you're ignoring my point that the actual DEATHS are a symptom of the disease.  That disease being, for the 20th time, me me me me, fuck you you you you.  Our total selfishness, which is CELEBRATED AND WORSHIPPED, at the expense of human decency and empathy, is a poison that is killing us all.  By gun, by despair, by all manner of awful paths.

Our gun cult is the most brutal, violent symptom of the disease that's killing us.  That you rage so hard against acknowledging that pretty much proves my point.

[52-80 19271]

24 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

We can take your post-modern interpretation of 2A to the Cloak Room, in addition to your pit-bull arguments for the AR-15 and use of “air quotes”.

Not post-modern, just post-narrative.  If you want to reduce road deaths, and found that (hypothetically) red light runners caused more fatalities than speeding, you'd focus on and police the intersections more than the highways. 

If these fetished rifles aren't the thing that's linked to the most deaths, would restricting them appreciably reduce firearm deaths?

[Brisketexan 105463]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Not post-modern, just post-narrative.  If you want to reduce road deaths, and found that (hypothetically) red light runners caused more fatalities than speeding, you'd focus on and police the intersections more than the highways. 

If these fetished rifles aren't the thing that's linked to the most deaths, would restricting them appreciably reduce firearm deaths?

Or, you could...and follow me here, it's a WACKY idea....you could enforce against BOTH red light runners AND speeders.

But, let's take the metaphor where it needs to go -- all the way home.  If you found that drivers were driving like bats out of hell, and blowing through lights all the time, because drivers approached driving with a psychotic attitude of "fuck everyone else, I'm the only human being who matters," then MAYBE a SMART society would realize that we have a big fucking social problem underneath it all, going back all the way to how we educate people on their place in a functioning society.  That metaphor actually works well - we can talk about the rise in road rage (and armed confrontations related to same), and people actually driving like I said above -- without giving a shit about anyone else on the road.  Instead of, you know, waving that car into the line, or waiting your turn at the stop sign, shit like that.  The things that decent humans SHOULD do.

Decency.  Humanity.  Empathy.  Those are the things that have been murdered.  Our gun cult is a symptom of the disease caused by their loss.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Brisketexan

[52-80 19271]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Two separate problems, although there is overlap with the core problem of selfish narcissism and the complete lack of human empathy.

Not sure why you're choosing to die on this hill.  And, not sure why you're ignoring my point that the actual DEATHS are a symptom of the disease.  That disease being, for the 20th time, me me me me, fuck you you you you.  Our total selfishness, which is CELEBRATED AND WORSHIPPED, at the expense of human decency and empathy, is a poison that is killing us all.  By gun, by despair, by all manner of awful paths.

Our gun cult is the most brutal, violent symptom of the disease that's killing us.  That you rage so hard against acknowledging that pretty much proves my point.

never touched an AR15, currently own no guns and have no desire to get one.  me me me me is not the one raging.  just asking you to be specific, and factually/statistically honest, rather than handwavey and exasperated (the selfishness!).

this gun cult of NRA-subscribing rednecks who worship their firearms, they're simply not doing the most killing.  can you believe and acknowledge that?

[Shaddie 1651]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Not post-modern, just post-narrative.  If you want to reduce road deaths, and found that (hypothetically) red light runners caused more fatalities than speeding, you'd focus on and police the intersections more than the highways. 

If these fetished rifles aren't the thing that's linked to the most deaths, would restricting them appreciably reduce firearm deaths?

Yes it would. At least crazies would have fewer rounds without loading. 
I just don’t understand your arguments. We aren’t going to stop it all tomorrow.  But damned if the worship of guns in our society would slow down just a bit the killings would also slow down. I just gave you a story of how guns are so prevalent in Israel but gun violence is low. Do you not understand this?

[52-80 19271]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But, let's take the metaphor where it needs to go -- all the way home.  If you found that drivers were driving like bats out of hell, and blowing through lights all the time, because drivers approached driving with a psychotic attitude of "fuck everyone else, I'm the only human being who matters," then MAYBE a SMART society would realize that we have a big fucking social problem underneath it all, going back all the way to how we educate people on their place in a functioning society.  That metaphor actually works well - we can talk about the rise in road rage (and armed confrontations related to same), and people actually driving like I said above -- without giving a shit about anyone else on the road.  Instead of, you know, waving that car into the line, or waiting your turn at the stop sign, shit like that.  The things that decent humans SHOULD do.

Decency.  Humanity.  Empathy.  Those are the things that have been murdered.  Our gun cult is a symptom of the disease caused by their loss.

I agree with you many drivers are morons.

Let's take this metaphor back to reality: you are simultaneously the emperor, governor, mayor, and police chief, how exactly are you fixing "psychotic attitude" and this perverted society?  (or you just campaign hardest against speeding)

Please translate this answer over to the gun situation.

 

[Brisketexan 105463]

I agree with you many drivers are morons.
Let's take this metaphor back to reality: you are simultaneously the emperor, governor, mayor, and police chief, how exactly are you fixing "psychotic attitude" and this perverted society?  (or you just campaign hardest against speeding)
Please translate this answer over to the gun situation.
 

Stop exalting guns over other human beings. That’s the answer. Other human beings come first.

[Shaddie 1651]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

 you fixing "psychotic attitude" and this perverted society?  

 

I don’t know. Maybe shoot Fox News anchors or the Murdoch family.  I will take either as a correct answer.

[52-80 19271]

6 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

Yes it would. At least crazies would have fewer rounds without loading. 
I just don’t understand your arguments. We aren’t going to stop it all tomorrow.  But damned if the worship of guns in our society would slow down just a bit the killings would also slow down. I just gave you a story of how guns are so prevalent in Israel but gun violence is low. Do you not understand this?

I understand your Israel anecdote perfectly.  Do you?  Are gun violence in Israel low because they hold fewer rounds?

If you eliminate all the high capacity rifles, ballpark what number of victims would you save? 

If you propose that all guns are eliminated save for matchlocks, then atleast that position would be consistent...

[52-80 19271]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Stop exalting guns over other human beings. That’s the answer. Other human beings come first.

That's the same as me proposing drivers prioritize order over a their personal sense of thrill.  That's a wish, that's not an actionable solution.

[Shaddie 1651]

Just now, 52-80 said:

I understand your Israel anecdote perfectly.  Do you?  Are gun violence in Israel low because they hold fewer rounds?

If you eliminate all the high capacity rifles, ballpark what number of victims would you save? 

If you propose that all guns are eliminated save for matchlocks, then atleast that position would be consistent...

WTF? Before the reservist were only required to carry handguns they were required to carry rifles. As usual you don’t know shit.  

[Brisketexan 105463]

That's the same as me proposing drivers prioritize order over a their personal sense of thrill.  That's a wish, that's not an actionable solution.

Oh….I don’t believe there’s a solution. We are on a self-destructive path, and we are pushing the accelerator with glee. We aren’t going to stop, or even slow down. We’ve decided this is what we want to be. It’s a terrible decision, but we’re committed to it.
Relax. You’ve won. You’re getting the outcome you want.

[52-80 19271]

1 minute ago, Shaddie said:

WTF? Before the reservist were only required to carry handguns they were required to carry rifles. As usual you don’t know shit.  

I didn't suggest to you what they carried.  I'm asking you - since you brought up Israel as an example - what makes their homicide low, and what actions you would implement to lower America's rate to that level.

I know you were joking about the Murdoch/Fox news thing, but it's slightly hilarious the coincidence when they first came on TV.....

[Foosters 17889]

33 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Or, you could...and follow me here, it's a WACKY idea....you could enforce against BOTH red light runners AND speeders.

But, let's take the metaphor where it needs to go -- all the way home.  If you found that drivers were driving like bats out of hell, and blowing through lights all the time, because drivers approached driving with a psychotic attitude of "fuck everyone else, I'm the only human being who matters," then MAYBE a SMART society would realize that we have a big fucking social problem underneath it all, going back all the way to how we educate people on their place in a functioning society.  That metaphor actually works well - we can talk about the rise in road rage (and armed confrontations related to same), and people actually driving like I said above -- without giving a shit about anyone else on the road.  Instead of, you know, waving that car into the line, or waiting your turn at the stop sign, shit like that.  The things that decent humans SHOULD do.

Decency.  Humanity.  Empathy.  Those are the things that have been murdered.  Our gun cult is a symptom of the disease caused by their loss.

Nah, lets just lower the driving age to 14 and do away with driving tests

[royiv 9392]

2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Nah, lets just lower the driving age to 14 and do away with driving tests

Go ahead and remove seat belts, air bags and insurance requirements while you're at it.

[Shaddie 1651]

2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

I didn't suggest to you what they carried.  I'm asking you - since you brought up Israel as an example - what makes their homicide low, and what actions you would implement to lower America's rate to that level.

I know you were joking about the Murdoch/Fox news thing, but it's slightly hilarious the coincidence when they first came on TV.....

So all homicides were gun violence? Jesus dude at least make a coherent argument. Not sure when Fox News came on but notice how your chart tracks with trump popularity?

[52-80 19271]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh….I don’t believe there’s a solution. We are on a self-destructive path, and we are pushing the accelerator with glee. We aren’t going to stop, or even slow down. We’ve decided this is what we want to be. It’s a terrible decision, but we’re committed to it.
Relax. You’ve won. You’re getting the outcome you want.

nihilism.  i like that.  i agree with you with the general philosophy (as i do with most things). 

but you should know -- and its been acknowledged upthread -- that the overall rate of violent has been in a long term improvement.  good night!

[YGIFS 19452]

Oh God, he's just moments away from reading Malcom Gladwell.  

[Dahobbs 17704]

2 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

So all homicides were gun violence? Jesus dude at least make a coherent argument. Not sure when Fox News came on but notice how your chart tracks with trump popularity?

It actually coincides with a significant rise in Russia's information warfare campaign to destabilize the west, which really intensified around it's invasion of Crimea. Russia was always convinced the US was extremely fractured and they expected it to breakup. When that didn't happen, it went about trying to make it happen. 

[52-80 19271]

3 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

So all homicides were gun violence? Jesus dude at least make a coherent argument. Not sure when Fox News came on but notice how your chart tracks with trump popularity?

i have fantastic news for you.  72% of all homicides were gun violence.  how does that change the coherence for you?

 

[Shaddie 1651]

 

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

i have fantastic news for you.  72% of all homicides were gun violence.  how does that change the coherence for you?

 

so you are saying I’m right? Cool. 

[52-80 19271]

Just now, Shaddie said:

 

so you are saying I’m right? Cool. 

im saying your first suggestion that removing the gun will reduce homicide is specious, and your second suggestion that less gun 'worship' will mean less death is not actionable at all.

given that the long term rate of homicide coincide almost perfectly with all other crimes (larseny, burglary, rape, assault, etc)... homicide is not a function of the weapon, its a 1st order function of the people.  i.e. the brisket theory

removing the weapon wouldnt reduce homicide.  it'll simply cause a substitute of weapons.

 

[Shaddie 1651]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

im saying your first suggestion that removing the gun will reduce homicide is specious, and your second suggestion that less gun 'worship' will mean less death is not actionable at all.

given that the long term rate of homicide coincide almost perfectly with all other crimes (larseny, burglary, rape, assault, etc)... homicide is not a function of the weapon, its a 1st order function of the people.  i.e. the brisket theory

removing the weapon wouldnt reduce homicide.  it'll simply cause a substitute of weapons.

 

Really? You are are reaching your arguments. A knife wielding assassin can kill 20 plus people in a single attack? Face it you have lost your argument.  

[aggie08 21561]

10 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

removing the weapon wouldnt reduce homicide.  it'll simply cause a substitute of weapons.

We're already recycling this board's "if they didn't have guns, they would have used pipe bombs" argument from a couple of weeks ago? Nice!

Edited April 19, 2023 by aggie08

[Shaddie 1651]

I will say as a pro gun owner the arguments these people come up with are at least novel. 
 

Now being a traveling dude I should be more afraid of strangers coming to my house when I’m not there. 
Locked doors and killer jack russels makes my wife feel extremely safe. 
 

Face it, you people defending the aholes shooting people are nothing but assholes.  

[83Horn 1649]

7 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

Really? You are are reaching your arguments. A knife wielding assassin can kill 20 plus people in a single attack? Face it you have lost your argument.  

Just leaving this here:

https://www.firstpost.com/explainers/chinas-stabbing-problem-why-are-mass-knife-attacks-so-common-11012101.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966

[Gatorubet 30325]

1 minute ago, 83Horn said:

Just leaving this here:

https://www.firstpost.com/explainers/chinas-stabbing-problem-why-are-mass-knife-attacks-so-common-11012101.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966

I stopped reading when the first thing they talked about was 100 deaths in the last decade.

[Shaddie 1651]

to 100 deaths in the past decade. It is often found that the common culprit is a lack of mental health infrastructure and more than 100 million people in dire need of it

Just now, Shaddie said:

to 100 deaths in the past decade. It is often found that the common culprit is a lack of mental health infrastructure and more than 100 million people in dire need of it

Uh. Ok. 

[Shaddie 1651]

3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

I stopped reading when the first thing they talked about was 100 deaths in the last decade.

[Shaddie 1651]

Jesus fucking Christ.  
 

I was told posters here were graduates of a world class university  

 

there is no way some people are this dumb . Should I not believe the hype?

 

 

[jettrink 40]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh….I don’t believe there’s a solution. We are on a self-destructive path, and we are pushing the accelerator with glee. We aren’t going to stop, or even slow down. We’ve decided this is what we want to be. It’s a terrible decision, but we’re committed to it.
Relax. You’ve won. You’re getting the outcome you want.

Man, I have always enjoyed your posts over all these years, but dude, take a deep breath and relax.  Everything will be alright.  Also, please stop billing your clients 100 bills for every post you make!

[Shaddie 1651]

Burnt ends that did not come out as planned. 
You are right and others are wrong  

 

 

[Shaddie 1651]

26 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

We're already recycling this board's "if they didn't have guns, they would have used pipe bombs" argument from a couple of weeks ago? Nice!

You just don’t understand. Any argument to let me keep a 50 cal machine gun to fend off the “nazis”,  “robbers” , “coloreds” or illegals is perfectly justified because a news channel told me “they” are invading. 

[YGIFS 19452]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

i have fantastic news for you.  72% of all homicides were gun violence.  how does that change the coherence for you?

 

Holy fucking shit...is that a serious statistic?  The weapon with the most ease of use, availability, and lethality is the cause of the most deaths?  

Hot damn Detective.  I had Pruning Saw, Plastic Spork, Cinder Block, and the collective works of a Mister Ronan Sinatra as the majority of deaths.  But fucking-A.  Well played, sir.  Well played.

[Shaddie 1651]

3 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Holy fucking shit...is that a serious statistic?  The weapon with the most ease of use, availability, and lethality is the cause of the most deaths?  

Hot damn Detective.  I had Pruning Saw, Plastic Spork, Cinder Block, and the collective works of a Mister Ronan Sinatra as the majority of deaths.  But fucking-A.  Well played, sir.  Well played.

Hate to break the news. 
 

Dumbass be dumbass. When your are so dumb you make other’s arguments for them.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaddie 1651]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

im saying your first suggestion that removing the gun will reduce homicide is specious, and your second suggestion that less gun 'worship' will mean less death is not actionable at all.

given that the long term rate of homicide coincide almost perfectly with all other crimes (larseny, burglary, rape, assault, etc)... homicide is not a function of the weapon, its a 1st order function of the people.  i.e. the brisket theory

removing the weapon wouldnt reduce homicide.  it'll simply cause a substitute of weapons.

 

Must have went to asleep. Waiting on answer.

[Gatorubet 30325]

12 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

I think twice about flipping off Ram drivers that tailgate the fuck out of me when I'm going 85 down the 2-lane highway to work. Never know when one of those snowflakes is gonna get his feefees hurt and pull out a pistol.

Make them follow you into a driveway. 

[Hate 20149]

Have we completed the gun violence bingo card yet?  Is there any actual news about what happened or are we just making the same usual posts still?

[elfenix 34343]

11 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Like if someone is technically trespassing in a place like Germany and you murder them, is that just your right?

it's harder to trespass in places where there are roaming rights - so long as you don't trample the crops or let the cattle out there are public access rights in a much of europe.

Quote

Germany

In Germany a limited right to roam, called Betretungsrecht, is guaranteed by multiple federal laws. The Federal Nature Conservation Act,^[27] the Federal Forest Act^[28] and the Federal Water Management Act allow everyone access to open landscape, uncultivated land, forests and water bodies, including cycling and horse-riding on tracks and paths. The right may be further regulated through state law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

[52-80 19271]

6 hours ago, Shaddie said:

Really? You are are reaching your arguments. A knife wielding assassin can kill 20 plus people in a single attack? Face it you have lost your argument.  

surely the comparatively restrictive states of california and new york would show better long term homicide rates than something like Texas, or the overall US average, right? right?

5 hours ago, Shaddie said:

Must have went to asleep. Waiting on answer.

happy to introduce you to the concept of timezones next.

[closetohumping 17484]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

surely the comparatively restrictive states of california and new york would show better long term homicide rates than something like Texas, or the overall US average, right? right?

happy to introduce you to the concept of timezones next.

I’ll be damned Shirley.  You’re right. Per capita, Texas is well ahead of these liberal havens.  Texas is doing a hair better than chiraq though

 

 

numbers are for 2021 not long term

 

Per capita numbers

 

heres another.  California is high overall but still behind Texas.   And it’s trending better.  New York is far behind both. 
 

Total

Edited April 19, 2023 by closetohumping

[lemonlime 5503]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

surely the comparatively restrictive states of california and new york would show better long term homicide rates than something like Texas, or the overall US average, right? right?

happy to introduce you to the concept of timezones next.

Not sure if serious.  But yes.  California and NY have lower homicide rates than Texas.  And these charts go back to 2005.

 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm

[aggie08 21561]

12 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I’ll be damned Shirley.  You’re right. Per capita, Texas is well ahead of these liberal havens.  Texas is doing a hair better than chiraq though

 

 

numbers are for 2021 not long term

 

Per capita numbers

 

1 minute ago, lemonlime said:

Not sure if serious.  But yes.  California and NY have lower homicide rates than Texas.  And these charts go back to 2005.

 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm

I mean, duh. States with less guns in circulation, a less pervasive gun culture, and more strict gun control regulations have less firearm-related deaths, and thus less homicides. Because of course they do. Pretty obvious stuff.

[WhatTheBuck 28813]

18 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Y'all've never seen one of those retractable leashes that lets your dog wander 20 or 30 feet from you?

How to spot a shitty dog owner.