Inappropriate teacher interaction

[immamac 42857]

1 minute ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Your link contains some references to statutes. Which ones do you feel are violated by a “your hot” message?

That the conduct is odious and likely violates school policy and should get him fired doesn’t make it illegal. It may be, I suppose, but I can’t figure out on which statute a prosecution would be based. 

your hot is the whistle the parents heard. Apparently this guy has been grooming the child if you didn't read the rest of the OP. This was the culmination of crossing the boundary of private communication unrelated to school after grooming. 

What happens next if daughter responds "you make me blush, your cute too" because she doesn't know what the fuck is going on and doesn't want to weird the guy out. then what happens when the teacher keeps going, then sends pics or asks for pics to be shared? then what happens when he gives her a ride home and wants her to touch his dick?

You think that "your hot" means he flopped his dick out and asked for a blowjob or do you think it's possible, or even fucking likely that this is how groomers go about grooming, it's a process of breaking boundaries and trust to do things that are clearly inappropriate. 

[Mullet Free 40]

10 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

If they start going off the rails and into cover up mode all you need to do is activate surly. Hell Nicole will probably have the guy drugged and in Town Lake by 10 pm tonight. 

 

8 minutes ago, immamac said:

super fucking weird that he was grooming your daughter and you think it was just the 'Your hot' message.

https://www.ueatexas.com/improper-student-relationships/

I’m aware of what he was doing. I think he’s a noob at it and slipped up a bit on target selection. He picked one with present and involved parents. Just glad we caught it.   
 

I feel bad that we have to discuss how pretty girls draw creeps at age 12 but we’re getting into it. All new to me as she’s our oldest daughter and I grew up in house with only brothers. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, immamac said:

your hot is the whistle the parents heard. Apparently this guy has been grooming the child if you didn't read the rest of the OP. This was the culmination of crossing the boundary of private communication unrelated to school after grooming. 

What happens next if daughter responds "you make me blush, your cute too" because she doesn't know what the fuck is going on and doesn't want to weird the guy out. then what happens when the teacher keeps going, then sends pics or asks for pics to be shared? then what happens when he gives her a ride home and wants her to touch his dick?

You think that "your hot" means he flopped his dick out and asked for a blowjob or do you think it's possible, or even fucking likely that this is how groomers go about grooming, it's a process of breaking boundaries and trust to do things that are clearly inappropriate. 

What. Statute. Does. “Your hot” violate?

I get you don’t like the behavior. No one here does. 

What law does the behavior violate?

[immamac 42857]

Just now, Doc Daneeka said:

What. Statute. Does. “Your hot” violate?

I get you don’t like the behavior. No one here does. 

What law does the behavior violate?

GROOMING IS LITERALLY AGAINST THE LAW YOU DENSE FUCK

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, immamac said:

GROOMING IS LITERALLY AGAINST THE LAW YOU DENSE FUCK

Which law was violated then, since you think you have the fucking answer?

[HornOnTheBayou 8931]

Y'all do know this is @immamac's MO, right? Act like you are 100% correct with zero actual knowledge to back it up. 

[Viper 12109]

3 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Which law was violated then, since you think you have the fucking answer?

Do we know for a fact "your hot" is the worst thing the guy has done? Maybe some government body could be notified and investigate and find out. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Viper

[immamac 42857]

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.21.htm

BUT GROOMING ISN'T A CRIME LOLOLOLOL

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

4 minutes ago, Viper said:

Do we know for a fact "your hot" is the worst thing the guy has done? Maybe some government body could investigate and find out. 

We’ve been told the school is, since said conduct likely violates policy and could lead to termination. 

If there’s evidence of a crime, the police should investigate. What’s the crime here? Or are you taking the “Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime” road?

Despicable behavior isn’t necessary illegal. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Doc Daneeka

[Guest]

7 hours ago, immamac said:

There is a 0% chance that the principal is going to take care of this. OP needs to listen to everyone. 

In the case I described with my son, the principal was the first contact.  I say give them a chance to react on their business of their school. Yes, if they try to bury it, or don’t react, then you go to the superintendent. If after that, no satisfaction, then you go public.

give the principal a chance to do their job. Not everybody’s fucking Joe Paterno.

Edited April 24, 2023 by slorch

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.21.htm

BUT GROOMING ISN'T A CRIME LOLOLOLOL

Which fucking statute makes “your hot” a crime. With your degree of certainty, you should be able to cite chapter and section. Where is it?

[immamac 42857]

I'm out, fuck this nonsense. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, immamac said:

I'm out, fuck this nonsense. 

“I don’t know” is shorter and more to the point. 

[immamac 42857]

1 minute ago, Doc Daneeka said:

“I don’t know” is shorter and more to the point. 

it's clear in there, just because you keep thinking all this guy did is say 'your hot' is all there is to see here means you need help.

This isn't an 18+ year old person who had a pass from someone that grossed or creeped them out. This is a 12 year old that was systemically culled from the herd and then sent a message with clear sexual intent. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, immamac said:

it's clear in there, just because you keep thinking all this guy did is say 'your hot' is all there is to see here means you need help.

This isn't an 18+ year old person who had a pass from someone that grossed or creeped them out. This is a 12 year old that was systemically culled from the herd and then sent a message with clear sexual intent. 

Which statute?

No-fucking-body is defending the guy or saying he may not have committed some crime at some point. “Your hot” isn’t it or you’d be pounding the law instead of pounding the table.

I think @Mullet Free is exactly right to be more concerned with protecting his daughter than worrying about the police at this point. If the school turns up more, that may need to change. 

[HornOnTheBayou 8931]

3 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

Male teachers in middle school and below give me the creeps.

Oh fuck off. 

[TwiceHorn 31488]

9 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Oh fuck off. 

Yeah, a whole lot of pearl-clutching assumptions in that post.

This is creepy af, no doubt.  It is not evidence that something more tangible has occurred that would violate the Texas Penal Code, as set forth above, which for the most part require physical touching.  I think there are some federal statutes that reach more non-contact offenses, but that usually requires some form of obscenity, not merely inappropriateness.

I'm not sure I'm real comfortable predicting that this guy is a permanent, inevitable chomo, either.  Certainly not without more evidence.

Does he need to be out of teaching for now, probably forever? Fuck yes.

Until there's more evidence of a crime, it seems a matter for education authorities.  Of course, there's evidence that education authorities don't pursue these things with the diligence that they should, but that should be the subject of monitoring, not necessarily a dash to the cops.

For all the shit we give Mullet, this would seem to be an example of pretty good parenting.

Edited April 24, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Dahobbs 17552]

21 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

“I don’t know” is shorter and more to the point. 

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be a fit among the statutes, which frankly surprised me. Your options are:

• Sec. 21.02. CONTINUOUS SEXUAL ABUSE OF YOUNG CHILD OR DISABLED INDIVIDUAL - This is essentially creates an extra criminal violation for someone that does prohibited actions more than once. You'd still have to have predicate actions.
• Sec. 21.11. INDECENCY WITH A CHILD. - either requires physical contact or exposure of genitals/anus;
• Sec. 21.12. IMPROPER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN EDUCATOR AND STUDENT - requires physical contact
• Sec. 21.18. SEXUAL COERCION. - requires some sort of threat;
• Sec. 22.011. SEXUAL ASSAULT. - requires physical contact
• Sec. 22.021. AGGRAVATED SEXUAL ASSAULT. - requires physical contact
• Sec. 22.041. ABANDONING OR ENDANGERING CHILD. - requires doing something to put the child in imminent danger
• Sec. 43.25. SEXUAL PERFORMANCE BY A CHILD. - requires the child to engage in sexual conduct or performance

There isn't anything that directly addresses this particular conduct. However, you could argue it is something like an attempted violation of 21.12 or 21.11, but I don't think this interaction is far enough along to get you there. 

 

[Dahobbs 17552]

43 minutes ago, immamac said:

GROOMING IS LITERALLY AGAINST THE LAW YOU DENSE FUCK

It probably should be, but it isn't. What's outlawed is actually taking advantage of the groomed. The interactions up until that point may not violate any law, at least not until they are far enough down the road that you could make a case for attempted indency/assault/coercion etc. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be a fit among the statutes, which frankly surprised me. Your options are:

• Sec. 21.02. CONTINUOUS SEXUAL ABUSE OF YOUNG CHILD OR DISABLED INDIVIDUAL - This is essentially creates an extra criminal violation for someone that does prohibited actions more than once. You'd still have to have predicate actions.
• Sec. 21.11. INDECENCY WITH A CHILD. - either requires physical contact or exposure of genitals/anus;
• Sec. 21.12. IMPROPER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN EDUCATOR AND STUDENT - requires physical contact
• Sec. 21.18. SEXUAL COERCION. - requires some sort of threat;
• Sec. 22.011. SEXUAL ASSAULT. - requires physical contact
• Sec. 22.021. AGGRAVATED SEXUAL ASSAULT. - requires physical contact
• Sec. 22.041. ABANDONING OR ENDANGERING CHILD. - requires doing something to put the child in imminent danger
• Sec. 43.25. SEXUAL PERFORMANCE BY A CHILD. - requires the child to engage in sexual conduct or performance

There isn't anything that directly addresses this particular conduct. However, you could argue it is something like an attempted violation of 21.12 or 21.11, but I don't think this interaction is far enough along to get you there. 

 

Yeah, it’s hard to get attempted physical conduct under .11 or .12 with the kind of interaction here, I agree. 

IMO, there’s just no there, there with “your hot.” I just don’t think there’s always going to be a bridge between egregious behavior — purposefully or even just idiotically — and criminal liability. But old motorcycle chains can be repurposed in some scenarios, I suppose. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Doc Daneeka

[Dahobbs 17552]

1 minute ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Yeah, it’s hard to get attempted physical conduct under .11 or .12 with the kind of interaction here, I agree. 

IMO, there’s just no there, there with “your hot.” I just don’t think there’s always going to be a bridge between egregious behavior — purposeful or even just idiotically — and criminal liability. But old motorcycle chains can be repurposed in some scenarios, I suppose. 

Seems like there should be a law against educators making any sexually charged advances on underage students that they supervise. I'm honestly surprised there isn't. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Seems like there should be a law against educators making any sexually charged advances on underage students that they supervise. I'm honestly surprised there isn't. 

I don’t disagree. Maybe “your hot” gets there. I don’t know. Does “You look very nice today” on picture day get there? Do female/female or male/male interactions get judged differently? That is, if a female teacher says “nice dress” or whatever, are we in the same place as when a male does it? Are we going to make compliments illegal? If there’s a line, it’s still pretty easy to stay on the “right” side of it with bad intent. Where does “sexually charged” start in a way that’s not too vague to stand up?

Edited April 24, 2023 by Doc Daneeka

[Post Oak 20224]

My concern would be the district not keeping you apprised of the ongoing situation.  For example, I would be livid if after today they didn't reach out to you for a few days.  I understand this stuff takes time and is extremely sensitive but I would insist on regular scheduled communication from them.

Seems like you're off to a good start OP.  Best of luck.

[conVINCEd 21469]

https://www.amazon.com/McFarlane-Toys-Walking-Lucille-Accessory/dp/B01L1DTIIO
 

[Herbie Hancock 7356]

It appears Mac found his missing dab pen judging from this last page or so. Jesus dude

[Mullet Free 40]

10 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Seems like there should be a law against educators making any sexually charged advances on underage students that they supervise. I'm honestly surprised there isn't. 

I was surprised there wasn’t an explicit district wide policy against interaction on social media. It has to be allowed though because of promotion of student athletes by coaches etc. Maybe make it a rule under high school?

 

22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

For all the shit we give Mullet, this would seem to be an example of pretty good parenting.

Appreciate that.
 

Whenever you think you have it figured out, something new happens.
 

I knew I’d get a wide variety of opinions here and the site is 72% lawyers. Some good input even from people that think you’re doing it wrong. 

[Mullet Free 40]

16 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

My concern would be the district not keeping you apprised of the ongoing situation.  For example, I would be livid if after today they didn't reach out to you for a few days.  I understand this stuff takes time and is extremely sensitive but I would insist on regular scheduled communication from them.

Seems like you're off to a good start OP.  Best of luck.

When I asked if we’d be alerted for any change in his status, the principal said he would speak with me daily until it’s resolved. 

[Rimbo 25944]

I would go nuclear, personally. Blab about it to literally everyone. Principal, District, News, Nextdoor, Reddit, Surly...

[Post Oak 20224]

33 minutes ago, Mullet Free said:

When I asked if we’d be alerted for any change in his status, the principal said he would speak with me daily until it’s resolved. 

That's an awesome response.  That would make me feel a lot better.  

 

Good luck and thanks for sharing.  I'm a dad of a 1st grader and this is the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night.  

[freyguy 4277]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

In the case I described with my son, the principal was the first contact.  I say give them a chance to react on their business of their school. Yes, if they try to bury it, or don’t react, then you go to the superintendent. If after that, no satisfaction, then you go public.

give the principal a chance to do their job. Not everybody’s fucking Joe Paterno.

whoever is gots a dusty dick...

[Not a cat 5658]

9 hours ago, immamac said:

. This is like letting the store manager of a best buy figure out what to do when 2 black Friday shoppers get into a physical altercation in the store and they decide who gets to leave with the item. 

 

[Chewbacca 7780]

21 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

Personally, I’d call the cops as well, at a minimum, to make sure it doesn’t get swept under the rug. I’m assuming you have a screenshot of this. If the school hasn’t done something within a day or two, that screenshot would be on Facebook, Nextdoor and go to the local news. Scorched earth. 

School will 100% try to bury it.

[Guest]

Some a y'all are cynical AF.  Maybe I'm too Pollyannic.

I said it upthread-  there are actually some administrators who take their responsibilities seriously.

[Skipper 6135]

28 minutes ago, slorch said:

Some a y'all are cynical AF.  Maybe I'm too Pollyannic.

I said it upthread-  there are actually some administrators who take their responsibilities seriously.

I would think see a parent like OP that is clearly going to be all over their ass certainly would if they care about their job.   

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I would think see a parent like OP that is clearly going to be all over their ass certainly would if they care about their job.   

[YGIFS 19450]

Not totally clear from skimming the thread, has the OP consulted with other parents in the group (IRL or on the chat threads) to see if anybody else experienced similar messages?  or  is there a way to figure that out from the device or saved thread on another kids' phone or how does this work?

Edited April 25, 2023 by YGIFS

[YGIFS 19450]

MulletFree---try and backchannel tonight and tomorrow morning with other parents, see what they've seen/not seen on their children's devices.  You don't just notify the principal.  You notify the superintendent, the vice principals, the teachers, his family, the county sheriff, the deputy, individually contact the members of the school board, you contact the high school newspaper editor and their faculty adviser, your local newspaper, your HOA, the assistant district attorney for your county, the state rep for your district, the SBOE, the TEA, and your county commissioner.  You contact everybody that would ever conceivably be expected to give fuck one about a situation like this with as much background and detail as you can find (and fine some more btw).  The more high-profile people who know, the more plausible deniability you'll have.  You wouldn't ever do something rash considering how many people you reached out to you with your real story and that of your daughter's.  

Update this thread on what you find out.  Then have it deleted in 72 hours.  This teacher is going to lose his job, his TRS pension, his mortgage, and his reputation if what you say is true.  But we need a little more to go on.  But first and foremost---take care of your girl.  That's all that really matters in the end.  Sorry this is happening to y'all.  Sadly it happens all around the country while we worry and bitch about books and drag shows.  The monsters are already in our children's orbit.  Not one hair on his head will be harmed, but he can experience an extraordinarily difficult life after termination.  

[Mullet Free 40]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

Not totally clear from skimming the thread, has the OP consulted with other parents in the group (IRL or on the chat threads) to see if anybody else experienced similar messages?  or  is there a way to figure that out from the device or saved thread on another kids' phone or how does this work?

No. We’re going with the anti Lobo strategy for now. Keeping our mouths shut.
 

He’s almost certainly gone from the school forever and we don’t have to worry about him anymore. Fortunately he didn’t hurt my daughter and she hasn’t heard of any other friend receiving contact like this so we aren’t going to knock door to door to see if there’s anyone else. 

[YGIFS 19450]

Understood. But digital/email/call records that you notifies every public official will help you and other families.  You should consider exhausting all notification channels so that there can be no confusion down the road if someone pursues a case against him. Keep it as confidential as you can obviously.  Sorry this happened  

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

Unless there’s some sort of nationwide list, what’s stopping this person from heading elsewhere and starting up?

[Mullet Free 40]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

You notify the superintendent, the vice principals, the teachers, his family, the county sheriff, the deputy, individually contact the members of the school board, you contact the high school newspaper editor and their faculty adviser, your local newspaper, your HOA, the assistant district attorney for your county, the state rep for your district, the SBOE, the TEA, and your county commissioner.  You contact everybody that would ever conceivably be expected to give fuck one about a situation like this with as much background and detail as you can find (and fine some more btw). 

I know not to expect discretion from you Lobo but most of the people you list won’t give near the fucks that the principal of the school will. You go with a spray and pray strategy. We went with a focused plan of attack. 
 

I like what someone upstream said. Not everybody is Joe Paterno. These people value their jobs and want the school to be a good experience for families. They won’t blow it for some two bit baseball coach. If he were some kid connected to a prominent family that might change the calculus but that’s not the case. No need to call in a bunch of favors to have this guy fired. Just let the system work and he vanishes. 

[YGIFS 19450]

I was speaking more to covering bases if other info were to come to light and charges/civil proceedings were to unfold.  People want to make it known they took every possible avenue before a case was pursued is all.  I get it.  Best of luck and again, sorry for the shit situation.  I’ve got two girls myself and I worry about shit like this.  You’re a good father for being protecting and pragmatic.  Godspeed 

[Chewbacca 7780]

Some a y'all are cynical AF.  Maybe I'm too Pollyannic.
I said it upthread-  there are actually some administrators who take their responsibilities seriously.

Personal experience guides me.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

8 hours ago, slorch said:

Some a y'all are cynical AF.  Maybe I'm too Pollyannic.
I said it upthread-  there are actually some administrators who take their responsibilities seriously.

Personal experience guides me.

But I should discount mine...

[Guest]

Profiling/ assuming the worst is wrong, correct?  or just in certain circumstances?  Want to have good administrators in our schools?  Trust has to start somewhere.  I'll be the first to support the fact that protecting my child comes in way above building trust with school administrators, but both are important, albeit different levels.

[fuggled 576]

@Mullet Free, are you absolutely certain it was actually the coach posting?  I can easily imagine 12 year old boys impersonating a teacher to troll classmates.  Just throwing that out there.

[Deej 76800]

I would like to know how this thread would read if it the OP's kid was a boy and it was his 20-something year old female teacher sending that message.

Oh, wait...I know...

[Mullet Free 40]

2 minutes ago, Deej said:

I would like to know how this thread would read if it the OP's kid was a boy and it was his 20-something year old female teacher sending that message.

Oh, wait...I know...

12 year olds dude 

 

23 minutes ago, fuggled said:

@Mullet Free, are you absolutely certain it was actually the coach posting?  I can easily imagine 12 year old boys impersonating a teacher to troll classmates.  Just throwing that out there.

We have considered that and it is a new app to us. SendIt. But given all the other red flags from his behavior and his activity levels on other social media with the kids it still points to him. I’d say we’re 95% sure it’s him. And if it is an impersonator they need to be called out. Also his other creepy behavior is still coming to light. 

[Deej 76800]

Just now, Mullet Free said:

12 year olds dude 

Trust me, plenty of posters here would be letting us know how they would have hit that at 12 and let their son hit that at 12. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

14 minutes ago, Deej said:

Trust me, plenty of posters here would be letting us know how they would have hit that at 12 and let their son hit that at 12. 

I absolutely would have — her name was Ms. Blake and she broke her lower leg skiing and started wearing skirts — but the list of potentially stupid things I would’ve done, or did, that I’d not be thrilled about from my kids’ perspective would be enormously long.