2020 Democratic Nominee

[Eggo 3975]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I love how we’re already blaming the democrats for half of America voting for Trump.

Wow you sure are dramatic. One of the most idiotic things HRC ever did was make derogatory comments about Trump supporters ("deplorables"), eliminating any chance of winning some of those people over and walking away with the EC. Why not find a moderate candidate who shows willingness to make concessions to people in the other political party? Otherwise, you're just dueling in the middle of main street hoping your aim is better than theirs. 

[Eggo 3975]

3 minutes ago, elfenix said:

the republicans are going to swear up and down regardless of who the nominee is that said nominee is the most divisive ever.  so it doesn't matter.

This doesn't really track. Yes, there will be smear campaigns across the board and it will get ugly, but it's pretty easy to see who seems capable of crossing the aisle and who doesn't.

[elfenix 34171]

1 minute ago, Eggo said:

This doesn't really track. Yes, there will be smear campaigns across the board and it will get ugly, but it's pretty easy to see who seems capable of crossing the aisle and who doesn't.

so long as mitch is in charge of the republicans in the senate it doesn't fucking matter. 

[Eggo 3975]

Understood, but in some fantasy world in my mind, I'd like to see voting members of the opposite party answer a poll stating who they think would make a better POTUS if they had to vote for someone in the opposing party. And not in some bullshit gotcha situation, but who would honestly make a more productive and uniting leader for the good of the country. 

It will never ever happen, but my hunch is someone like Warren would make moderate republicans really nervous. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

~*~* brow furrowing intensifies *~*~

 

[Js1 85109]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I love how we’re already blaming the democrats for half of America voting for Trump.

Already? Shiiiiit onboard et al still blame the democrats for MAKING HIM vote for Trump in 16. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Again, only the women candidates get talked about in terms of ~likability~

 

Ugh, that rustles my titties.

 

IS BERNIE LIKABLE????

 

No but no one ever asks that question.

 

 

[Eggo 3975]

16 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Again, only the women candidates get talked about in terms of ~likability~

 

Ugh, that rustles my titties.

 

IS BERNIE LIKABLE????

 

No but no one ever asks that question.

 

 

I was responding to the 2 posters who said they would choose a Warren/O'Rourke candidacy if they could pick. I also don't find Bernie likable to the general electorate, for what it's worth. 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

I'm pretty fascinated to see how this goes over with voters..... 

 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5784]

3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

She's near the bottom of my list right now.

[Bozo_Casanova 26279]

dammit

Edited February 22, 2019 by Bozo_Casanova
dammit

[tantric superman 4667]

Reparations. 

I figure I am going to do "not this shit again" at least 1,000 times before I vote against Trump.

It's going to be like watching a bunch of four year olds playing soccer, just waiting to see which of the useless rugrats manages to get the ball in the net.
 

[Message Board User 12389]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I'm pretty fascinated to see how this goes over with voters..... 

 

So are we gonna do reparations for Hispanics too?  Native Americans?  Asians?  Jews?  Irish?

Edited February 22, 2019 by Message Board User

[burntorangebongos 10681]

smart move by Warren. She needs to mirror Kamala and keep the wind from her sails.

[Disco Strangler 1865]

Path to defeat: 

(1) every voter distracted from real issues of health care, disappearance of middle class, corrupt / traitorous president,

(2) shift focus to red meat click bait, including:  (a) reparations, bitch!, (b) late term / post-birth abortions (thanks, VA black-face Gov), (c) "socialism" as defined by Fox News and without push-back.

(3) every "God-fearing, red-blooded" US citizen (including all of those related to me) can't shut up about this shit for months, worked into a 2020 voting frenzy.

Maybe these ideas open a path to nomination for more centric candidates like Biden or Beto.   Maybe they open up a conversation or ideology shift that awakens our grandchildren's generation.  They will not turn out votes that get Public Enemy No 1 out of office, but will turn out his closeted supporters in droves.  

Clearer heads need to prevail.  Cut this shit out and focus on real problems, real solutions.  Stop injecting Red Bull into the MAGA veins.

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Barack Obama took the Heritage Foundation's universal healthcare idea and the Republicans have spent the last decade calling it Communism.

Anyone who thinks that the Dems going centrist will in any way dull the edge of Republican hysteria is an idiot who will never learn anything.

[Bozo_Casanova 26279]

 

[BradInATX 9208]

Barack Obama took the Heritage Foundation's universal healthcare idea and the Republicans have spent the last decade calling it Communism. Anyone who thinks that the Dems going centrist will in any way dull the edge of Republican hysteria is an idiot who will never learn anything. 

 

  

Obama won twice. Who's the idiot? I don't really care about reparations but it's a dumb ass thing to focus on. So is the green new deal. Congrats, you'll run up the votes in California for a whopping zero additional electoral votes, and you'll turn off voters where it matters.

 

 

It's absolutely astonishing how quickly some have already forgotten the lessons from 2016.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

39 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 Obama won twice. Who's the idiot?

Obama is.

He won the White House and lost the national Congress to powerful Republican majorities and let the party wither so badly that by 2016 nationwide, the Republicans were a couple of state legislatures away from being able to amend the Constitution. They were content to let state parties wither because they had the Golden Child that people liked even as their own party's favorability sunk.

They did not build a motivated, mobile, and active volunteer base. People like Beto had nothing to count on, and Beto had to build his own structure to run in Texas because the Democrats had no ground game outside of getting Obama elected.

The structure that existed is the one behind the Hillary 2016 campaign, a campaign that ignored the South and Midwest and focused its efforts almost exclusively in upper-middle-class suburbs, which was, as you rightly say, "running up the score" in terms of popular votes by bringing in suburbanites but losing in terms of electoral votes by ignoring the Midwest and South.

"Where it matters", where the Dems actually lost the 2016 presidential election, are the places where working class whites were either outright insulted or at least ignored by the DNC and candidate. Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, Indiana.

1) Build a durable base out in the nation that will volunteer in campaigns, push Congressmen once they're in the office, and generate a bench of future candidates.
2) Rebuild ties with the labor unions and their historical constituencies (including the white working class).

It's amazing that some of you look at 2016 and what you take away is, "Well... we didn't go centrist hard enough."

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

Just wanted to check in and thank Chief Faux feather for establishing what percentage is needed to claim a particular race. If I’m 1/1215th, I want my reparations. 

Is there a more transparent group of frauds?  Harris is the worst offender. Her thoughts can be bought and she has none of her own. We don’t have to worry too much about any policy she suggest as we have already seen she is ready to do a 180 in 24hrs if the polls say so. 

Its also a brilliant group that rallies against income inequality and unaffordable housing while representing the states who are worst offenders. Doesn’t matter, the whole party slogan is Hate Trump. 

2016 all over again. Zero message except for competing on who can give the most handouts from the government. 

[Eggo 3975]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Obama is.

He won the White House and lost the national Congress to powerful Republican majorities and let the party wither so badly that by 2016 nationwide, the Republicans were a couple of state legislatures away from being able to amend the Constitution. They were content to let state parties wither because they had the Golden Child that people liked even as their own party's favorability sunk.

They did not build a motivated, mobile, and active volunteer base. People like Beto had nothing to count on, and Beto had to build his own structure to run in Texas because the Democrats had no ground game outside of getting Obama elected.

The structure that existed is the one behind the Hillary 2016 campaign, a campaign that ignored the South and Midwest and focused its efforts almost exclusively in upper-middle-class suburbs, which was, as you rightly say, "running up the score" in terms of popular votes by bringing in suburbanites but losing in terms of electoral votes by ignoring the Midwest and South.

"Where it matters", where the Dems actually lost the 2016 presidential election, are the places where working class whites were either outright insulted or at least ignored by the DNC and candidate. Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, Indiana.

1) Build a durable base out in the nation that will volunteer in campaigns, push Congressmen once they're in the office, and generate a bench of future candidates.
2) Rebuild ties with the labor unions and their historical constituencies (including the white working class).

It's amazing that some of you look at 2016 and what you take away is, "Well... we didn't go centrist hard enough."

So I think what I hear you saying is that if we go west far enough we'll eventually get to India. 

[Celery Man 20886]

i think it depends on if the reason Trump and the GOP keep getting nailed for fraud has to do with transparency

[BradInATX 9208]

40 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Obama is.

He won the White House and lost the national Congress to powerful Republican majorities and let the party wither so badly that by 2016 nationwide, the Republicans were a couple of state legislatures away from being able to amend the Constitution. They were content to let state parties wither because they had the Golden Child that people liked even as their own party's favorability sunk.

They did not build a motivated, mobile, and active volunteer base. People like Beto had nothing to count on, and Beto had to build his own structure to run in Texas because the Democrats had no ground game outside of getting Obama elected.

The structure that existed is the one behind the Hillary 2016 campaign, a campaign that ignored the South and Midwest and focused its efforts almost exclusively in upper-middle-class suburbs, which was, as you rightly say, "running up the score" in terms of popular votes by bringing in suburbanites but losing in terms of electoral votes by ignoring the Midwest and South.

"Where it matters", where the Dems actually lost the 2016 presidential election, are the places where working class whites were either outright insulted or at least ignored by the DNC and candidate. Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, Indiana.

1) Build a durable base out in the nation that will volunteer in campaigns, push Congressmen once they're in the office, and generate a bench of future candidates.
2) Rebuild ties with the labor unions and their historical constituencies (including the white working class).

It's amazing that some of you look at 2016 and what you take away is, "Well... we didn't go centrist hard enough."

I don't disagree with what you're saying about Obama (except that he's most certainly not an idiot) or his strategy, but I'm not sure how that's relevant to the conversation here.

And you're completely right about "where it matters". So before I write a long response to this, I'd like to hear your thoughts. How do you think the swing voters in that area, the Obama->Trump voters in the midwest and rust belt that threw the election to Trump, will react to things like the Green New Deal, reparations, and gun control?

Edited February 22, 2019 by BradInATX

[alincoln 2364]

10 hours ago, Disco Strangler said:

shift focus to red meat click bait, including:  (a) reparations, bitch!, (b) late term / post-birth abortions (thanks, VA black-face Gov), (c) "socialism" as defined by Fox News and without push-back.

Strikes me as a brilliant platform to win the white working class votes in the Midwest that are needed to defeat Trump.  

[Js1 85109]

34 minutes ago, sublime said:

Obama is an idiot?

No, but the strategy of ignoring state parties so much that they got decimated for multiple cycles was.  Republican gains across the country both in Congress and the state level in 2010 led to a deeper bench of candidates for them to pull from in 2014 and 2016. 

17 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I don't disagree with what you're saying about Obama (except that he's most certainly not an idiot) or his strategy, but I'm not sure how that's relevant to the conversation here.

And you're completely right about "where it matters". So before I write a long response to this, I'd like to hear your thoughts. How do you think the swing voters in that area, the Obama->Trump voters in the midwest and rust belt that threw the election to Trump, will react to things like the Green New Deal, reparations, and gun control?

Hey guys, we can't talk about things because some people might not like it.  

[GSU&UT 1798]

14 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I don't disagree with what you're saying about Obama (except that he's most certainly not an idiot) or his strategy, but I'm not sure how that's relevant to the conversation here.

And you're completely right about "where it matters". So before I write a long response to this, I'd like to hear your thoughts. How do you think the swing voters in that area, the Obama->Trump voters in the midwest and rust belt that threw the election to Trump, will react to things like the Green New Deal, reparations, and gun control?

Are you suggesting, given especially after 2016, that candidates are going to go to the midwest to just campaign on these issues? And fuck I hope all these candidates continue to at least talk about climate change in very serious and exact terms, at least to those on the coastal cities.

That being said, they aren't going to talk to a union factory worker who is worried about his job about why he should care about climate change more than anything else.

[Js1 85109]

The Green New Deal - 

Quote

Besides providing new jobs, this Green New Deal is also aimed to address poverty by aiming much of the improvements in the "frontline and vulnerable communities" which include the poor and disadvantaged people. To gain additional support, the resolution includes calls for universal health care, fair minimum wages, and preventing monopolies.

Yeah, people in the Midwest would hate new jobs, universal health care and fair minimum wage. Gross.

You tailor your message to different communities.  You can talk about high speed rail, better public transportation to the city and universal healthcare to suburbanites; you can talk about new jobs, improving impoverished community through direct investment in infrastructure and fair minimum wage to the working class.  All under the same "Green New Deal" umbrella.

Conflating it as "omg you can't talk to people in the Midwest about the Green New Deal because only coastal libs like it" tells me you don't know anything about it other than what you heard on TV.  

Also, responsible gun control is a nationwide issue.  You can talk about it with voters in the Midwest, the South, the coasts, anywhere.  Suburban women in Minneapolis, Grand Rapids, Houston. Phoenix, etc. have the same hopes that their kids aren't going to be gunned down in a movie theater or 11th grade biology. 

[Eggo 3975]

I read a book after 2016 entitled "Strangers in their Own Land" written by a Berkeley professor who traveled to Louisiana to interview Trump supporters. These people would cheer when large petroleum corporations would move their operations into the area. When said corporations would dump chemicals into the water supply, they would blame the government for oversight. When said corporations would lay off hundreds of workers, they would blame the government for suffocating regulations that ruined their profitability. When environmental pollution caused sinkholes or cancer, they would blame the government for not compensating them for their losses or paying for the medical expenses. When the government would prosecute said corporation for their wrongdoing, the citizens would come to the corporations' defense as if they had each others' backs. 

It's all confounding bullshit, but stumping on things like reparations, Green New Deal, and raising taxes (on anyone) is a sure way to replicate that nonsense from 2016.

[Js1 85109]

So the Democrats should centrist their platform to placate a bunch of fucking morons?  They think government is bad, so Democrats should just run as Republicans! 

Pass.  Thank u, next.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Js1

[Eggo 3975]

Just now, Js1 said:

So the Democrats should centrist their platform to placate a bunch of fucking morons? 

Pass.  Thank u, next.

Centrist the message at the very least. If 10% of the population is way smarter than everyone else but can't understand how to communicate with the 90%, it doesn't fucking matter how good the platform is. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

32 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I don't disagree with what you're saying about Obama (except that he's most certainly not an idiot) or his strategy, but I'm not sure how that's relevant to the conversation here.

And you're completely right about "where it matters". So before I write a long response to this, I'd like to hear your thoughts. How do you think the swing voters in that area, the Obama->Trump voters in the midwest and rust belt that threw the election to Trump, will react to things like the Green New Deal, reparations, and gun control?

I'll let the Boss lead off.

We win by leading. We win by giving them hope for a better tomorrow for themselves and their children.

These people are not all irredeemable idiots. Some of them are, but not all of them. Not even most of them. Coastal elites and suburbanites (aka, the DNC) want to dismiss them as a horde of slavering racist morons, but these people want what everyone else wants. And what they want is the promise of what we all believe America should be. They have been cheated and robbed, and they know it. They bought into the hatred and lies of Trump's demagoguery because that was the only story anyone was telling them. Their choice was between a vampire telling them to go fuck themselves and a bloated bag of lies who told them they were great and had a bright future.

And now the pseudo-pundits want to pretend that they didn't vote for Hillary because simply they're racist? The same people who voted for a man named Hussein? Fuck off. Fuck anyone who still leans on that, because people who feel that way (Hugo, et al) would rather lose this country to fascism than step down off their moralistic high horse.

There are Dem 2020 candidates who could easily bring back Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Those 3, plus the existing blue states, are all we need to take the White House back.

[BradInATX 9208]

25 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Hey guys, we can't talk about things because some people might not like it.  

I mean, this is how elections work.

 

15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

The Green New Deal - 

Yeah, people in the Midwest would hate new jobs, universal health care and fair minimum wage. Gross.

You tailor your message to different communities.  You can talk about high speed rail, better public transportation to the city and universal healthcare to suburbanites; you can talk about new jobs, improving impoverished community through direct investment in infrastructure and fair minimum wage to the working class.  All under the same "Green New Deal" umbrella.

Conflating it as "omg you can't talk to people in the Midwest about the Green New Deal because only coastal libs like it" tells me you don't know anything about it other than what you heard on TV.  

Also, responsible gun control is a nationwide issue.  You can talk about it with voters in the Midwest, the South, the coasts, anywhere.  Suburban women in Minneapolis, Grand Rapids, Houston. Phoenix, etc. have the same hopes that their kids aren't going to be gunned down in a movie theater or 11th grade biology. 

I've read enough to know what the Green New Deal is, and I understand that there are aspects of job creation, etc. 

However what percentage of swing voters, particularly those Obama->Trump voters (most of whom are dumb as shit) are going to know more than what they heard on TV? You've got an idealistic view of how politics work, where everyone researches everything and reads detailed policy outlines, etc. Unfortunately that's not the world we live in.

Gun control has been proven to be a losing issue almost everywhere. 

Your desire to see the country shaped to the ideal utopia that you hope for prevents you from seeing reality. Which is exactly why the Democrats get outplayed by the Republicans almost every time. You are a microcosm of the entire problem. 

[BradInATX 9208]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I'll let the Boss lead off.

We win by leading. We win by giving them hope for a better tomorrow for themselves and their children.

These people are not all irredeemable idiots. Some of them are, but not all of them. Not even most of them. Coastal elites and suburbanites (aka, the DNC) want to dismiss them as a horde of slavering racist morons, but these people want what everyone else wants. And what they want is the promise of what we all believe America should be. They have been cheated and robbed, and they know it. They bought into the hatred and lies of Trump's demagoguery because that was the only story anyone was telling them. Their choice was between a vampire telling them to go fuck themselves and a bloated bag of lies who told them they were great and had a bright future.

And now the pseudo-pundits want to pretend that they didn't vote for Hillary because simply they're racist? The same people who voted for a man named Hussein? Fuck off. Fuck anyone who still leans on that, because people who feel that way (Hugo, et al) would rather lose this country to fascism than step down off their moralistic high horse.

There are Dem 2020 candidates who could easily bring back Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Those 3, plus the existing blue states, are all we need to take the White House back.

It's kinda crazy how much you and I actually agree on from a purely philosophical standpoint, and how far apart we are in the way we distill it into action and who/what we back. It's pretty fascinating.
 

They voted for Trump because they felt abandoned by the Democratic party and they felt the Democratic party was morphing from the union-backing party of the people to a technocratic coastal cool kids club. This has been parsed and hashed through ad nauseum, and there are countless studies, polls and analytics that show this is the case. This is not even up for debate.

Things like Warren's wealth tax that leads into child care credits/ceilings are the types of policies that will pull those voters back in. Warren's not my ideal candidate, but I'll give her credit for that one. A Green New Deal, which again, I don't have any issue with, is not. It smacks of California elites. It does nothing for the midwest/rust belt. And reparations/gun control are just beyond stupid if you want to win back that area. Just abysmal strategy, yet again, from the Democrats. 

If you can't see why things like the GND, gun control, and mother fucking reparations won't play up there and will alienate those swing voters we need up there, then you've either never spent significant time in the area, or you're being intentionally obtuse.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BradInATX

[Js1 85109]

The centrist Gary Johnson voters are out in the full force today! 

[BradInATX 9208]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

The centrist Gary Johnson voters are out in the full force today! 

Yeah, definitely difficult to figure out why swing voters feel alienated by the leftish wing of the Democratic party.

[Bama Chick 28596]

But they don’t feel alienated by a lying, traitorous, racist orange shitbag?

That says more about those voters than it does about “the leftists”.

[GSU&UT 1798]

Again, captain dipshit, are you seriously believing candidates are going to show up to factories in the midwest to pitch reparations to white lower-middle class voters? How stupid are you?

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, Bama Chick said:

But they don’t feel alienated by a lying, traitorous, racist orange shitbag?

That says more about those voters than it does about “the leftists”.

I agree. There are aspects of the Democratic party (see: Js1) that irritate the hell out of me. But that stuff is background noise to the thunderous shitbaggery of Trump, and personally this long-time independent (albeit left-leaning mostly) will vote with the D for the foreseeable future until every scumbag who supported or enabled Trump is out of office. 

There are lots like me, but there are lots that are not. Those folks might not be smart, but we need their votes. 

[Js1 85109]

3 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Again, captain dipshit, are you seriously believing candidates are going to show up to factories in the midwest to pitch reparations to white lower-middle class voters? How stupid are you?

Also, they're grabbing and running with "reparations" because it's a dirty scary word that conjures images of taking money and things from whites and giving them to African Americans.

Both Warren, Booker and Harris have framed it as "community investments" for racially-discriminated minorities who start out life well below their white peers because of historical discrimination. See: access to affordable housing and funding for home ownership; access to affordable childcare. 

But reparations. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Js1

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 minutes ago, sublime said:

Obama is an idiot and Hillary is a vampire and you wonder why I don't support your socialist.

You are calling me and my people deplorables. Bernie Sanders will get Walter Fucking Mondaled you Pollyanna loon you.

I don't know why I'm bothering with a troll like you, but I volunteered for Obama in '08 and '12. I love Barack. I have the Shepard Fairey HOPE poster (from the original run), autographed by Obama and Biden, hanging in my office at home.

What you're incapable of understanding, I guess, is that we can be critical of our own team.

Yes, Obama got high on his own supply and eventually grew to see himself the way the party treated him; as a god. How could he not when he has fanboys like me with his autograph on their walls?

If a requirement that you have is that everyone make you feel happy on the Internet then you're a completely useless ally in any fight. You don't support Bernie because you don't share his vision and beliefs. 

And yes, if you want to abandon the white working class and embrace fascism because it aesthetically pleases you to only cater to the wealthy, you're a fucking deplorable and I'm glad to call you my enemy. I don't give a shit how woke you think you are, because if your heart isn't with the working classes of this nation you're an enemy.

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

A Green New Deal, which again, I don't have any issue with, is not. It smacks of California elites. It does nothing for the midwest/rust belt.

Only if you allow FOX to frame it and sell it that way. The Green New Deal is the promise of a revitalization in the midwest, and any Dem worth a shit will sell it that way.

Quote

And reparations/gun control are just beyond stupid if you want to win back that area.

Again, if you simply concede those points to FOX you'll lose. If you believe they are good for America you can sell them. This is why centrists need to get the fuck out, because they don't actually believe in this shit; they're woke Republicans.

You don't know how to sell them because you don't believe in them.

People can be led. We have to have leaders to lead them.

Why do you think an entire region of Union loyalists went to Trump? In the 1970s genius brain pundits would've said, "You can't sell deregulation, union-busting, and shipping jobs overseas in the Rust Belt! Are you insane!?"

Look what happened. The right believed in those causes and sold it with conviction and consistent effort.

The good guys can do the same thing.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Again, captain dipshit, are you seriously believing candidates are going to show up to factories in the midwest to pitch reparations to white lower-middle class voters? How stupid are you?

Are you of the belief that factory workers are too poor to own TVs and internet service?

[Js1 85109]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I agree. There are aspects of the Democratic party (see: Js1) that irritate the hell out of me. But that stuff is background noise to the thunderous shitbaggery of Trump, and personally this long-time independent (albeit left-leaning mostly) will vote with the D for the foreseeable future until every scumbag who supported or enabled Trump is out of office. 

There are lots like me, but there are lots that are not. Those folks might not be smart, but we need their votes. 

Don't worry, your centrist bullshit irritates the hell out of me.

I don't want to vote for Democrats who talk like Republicans of old.   I already said I will vote for a rotten eggplant over Trump.  I'm not going to pout because my candidate didn't get enough votes to win the nomination.  

Edited February 22, 2019 by Js1

[Dick Tremayne 103]

This thread is a fascinating look at proof that liberals hate the Left more than the Right.

[bad_teammate 13132]

Just now, Dick Tremayne said:

This thread is a fascinating look at proof that liberals hate the Left more than the Right.

 

[Js1 85109]

1 minute ago, Dick Tremayne said:

This thread is a fascinating look at proof that liberals hate the Left more than the Right.

Liberals don't hate the left.

Centrists hate the left more than they hate the right.  They have no problem holding their noses and voting for Republicans.  But when it comes to Democrats, they better be PERFECT.

[GSU&UT 1798]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Are you of the belief that factory workers are too poor to own TVs and internet service?

These poor factory workers do nothing but spend time on twitter mulling over every single thing a candidate says?

 

Kamala Harris is asked something: "Yeah that sounds like a good idea if we implement it this reasonable way."
Twitter: Kamala Harris supports reparations!!
Michigan Auto Worker: THAT'S IT, TIME TO VOTE FOR TRUMP AGAIN!

------------- 8 months later Kamala is in Michigan at an auto-factory ------------------

Kamala: We need to protect unions and hold employers to a higher standard of paying a living wage!

Workers: NO NO NO, I did nothing but think about a tweet I saw 8 months ago because I do nothing but spend time on the internet all day every day. You Ma'am have lost my vote!!

Is this how it plays out in your mind?

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Again, if you simply concede those points to FOX you'll lose. If you believe they are good for America you can sell them. This is why centrists need to get the fuck out, because they don't actually believe in this shit; they're woke Republicans.

You don't know how to sell them because you don't believe in them.

People can be led. We have to have leaders to lead them.

Why do you think an entire region of Union loyalists went to Trump? In the 1970s genius brain pundits would've said, "You can't sell deregulation, union-busting, and shipping jobs overseas in the Rust Belt! Are you insane!?"

Look what happened. The right believed in those causes and sold it with conviction and consistent effort.

The good guys can do the same thing.

"Only if you allow FOX to frame it and sell it that way. The Green New Deal is the promise of a revitalization in the midwest, and any Dem worth a shit will sell it that way."

Just calling it the "Green New Deal" gives Fox an opening to frame it that way. In 2016 we saw a polarization where "Green" became the enemy of "blue-collar", largely due to Hillary's gaffes. And the term "New DeaL" just opens the door for socialist attacks. Why not call it something else? I'm not in marketing so I have no idea what you'd call it, but "Green New Deal" certainly isn't it, if you're trying to frame it as revitalization of middle America. It's a branding issue, and branding continues to be a huge flaw in the Democrats' strategy. I think even a hardcore D like you would concede that the Rs are far better at branding than the Ds. They need to close that gap.

"Why do you think an entire region of Union loyalists went to Trump? In the 1970s genius brain pundits would've said, "You can't sell deregulation, union-busting, and shipping jobs overseas in the Rust Belt! Are you insane!?"

Look what happened. The right believed in those causes and sold it with conviction and consistent effort.

The good guys can do the same thing."

Completely agree. Do you see someone in the D field that has the charisma and personality to sell those things and overcome the spin machine? In that regard, I don't see anyone even remotely close to Obama in that regard. Those charismatic dynamos only come along so often, and I don't think anyone in the field has the Clinton/Obama magic. If I did, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Obama/Clinton could sell the GND. And they wouldn't be stupid enough to try to sell reparations.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BradInATX

[bad_teammate 13132]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Just calling it the "Green New Deal" gives Fox an opening to frame it that way. In 2016 we saw a polarization where "Green" became the enemy of "blue-collar", largely due to Hillary's gaffes. And the term "New DeaL" just opens the door for socialist attacks. Why not calling it something else?

There is no closing that door. Do you seriously think calling it anything else will close that fucking door?

They called it the fucking AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, do you seriously think if they called it EAGLE FREEDOM CAPITALISMCARE that the Republicans would've held fire? What the fuck are you even talking about?

~*~*~ concern trolling intensifies ~*~*~

Stop being a fucking pussy who is so scared of Republicans and FOXNews. Go hide somewhere or grow some fucking balls.

Quote

Completely agree. Do you see someone in the D field that has the charisma and personality to sell those things and overcome the spin machine? In that regard, I don't see anyone even remotely close to Obama in that regard. Those charismatic dynamos only come along so often, and I don't think anyone in the field has the Clinton/Obama magic. 

Holy shit did you seriously not just see a Dem enter the field, raise $6M and get 1 million volunteers in 24 hours? Turn on your god damned monitor, son.

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Liberals don't hate the left.

Centrists hate the left more than they hate the right.  They have no problem holding their noses and voting for Republicans.  But when it comes to Democrats, they better be PERFECT.

False. Stop with the "woe is me" nonsense. People hold their friends to higher standards than their enemies - doesn't mean they're suddenly going to cast off their friends and buddy up to the enemy. I want the D candidate to win and I'm deathly afraid of another 2016 where the party 1) picks a bad candidate and 2) pushes policies and rhetoric that will alienate the same group that was alienated in 2016 and swung the election to Trump.

 

7 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I already said I will vote for a rotten eggplant over Trump.  I'm not going to pout because my candidate didn't get enough votes to win the nomination.  

Well, at least we agree on something.

[Dick Tremayne 103]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Fuck yes! This exactly!

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Liberals don't hate the left.

Centrists hate the left more than they hate the right.  They have no problem holding their noses and voting for Republicans.  But when it comes to Democrats, they better be PERFECT.

I guess that's where I disagree. Liberals ARE Centrists. I just don't see any difference.