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2020 Democratic Nominee

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32,694

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Posted
This is the major problem I have with the "displaced Republicans" who hate Trump and what the GOP is now.  I'm sorry you don't have a home.  But don't walk into someone else's and tramp mud throughout and break the furniture and spill your beer and tell us our ideas are too extreme and you hate them and try to turn the Democrats into your old party.  
I'm not a displaced Republican if only because I realized their talk about fiscal responsibility and small government was bullshit decades ago. As y'all know I've usually voted Libertarian in national elections, but I'm following this discussion with interest only because I know I'm voting for whichever human being you put on the ballot in 2020.
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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elfenix

elfenix 34,170

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Posted

 

 

The Democratic party is not anyone's home it's just a political tent made up of various coalitions with access to ballots in all 50 states plus the televised debates. The party itself isn't anything like it was 50 years ago back when all the Southern deplorables were Democrats before switching parties and chasing off the RINOs from the GOP. The party changes, considering how easy it is to switch political parties you would think party shifts would happen more often.

Anyways, considering we exist in a Two Party system, it's part of the natural political process for the displaced Republicans to switch parties and change it's direction if they have the numbers.

 

 

It's not tho.

 

But what’s more unexpected is that voters stay with the party they identify with at age 18, developing an attachment that is likely to persist — and to shape how they see politics down the road.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/partisan-loyalty-begins-at-age-18/amp/

 

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kevwun

kevwun 15,608

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4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Omar is speaking truth to power. I don't give a fuck if's not considered politically savvy. 

 

And if she ends up with more enemies than friends, none of her ideas will matter.  You don't get anything done in the House by pissing everyone off.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,132

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- Ilhan Omar is not running for president.

- Barack Obama is not a subject of discussion and absolutely doesn't matter in this upcoming election.

- All of the 2020 Dem candidates like Obama as a person and think he was a good president.

This is extremely dumb.

I, also, really like Barack Obama. He is also pretty much a do-nothing who killed tens/hundreds-of-thousands of innocent people overseas. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20,676

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3 minutes ago, kevwun said:

And if she ends up with more enemies than friends, none of her ideas will matter.  You don't get anything done in the House by pissing everyone off.

The House is full of corruption. Someone who is willing to take on the establishment, compromising her own personal success and possibly putting herself in danger, should be commended and supported by regular American citizens. Fuck the House. 

 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20,676

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In June 2015 Trump was polling at 1% and Jeb Bush was the favorite. At that time the GOP wasn't even aware of the surge of angry voters that catapulted Trump to the Presidency. 

Progressives are angry too, and the DNC needs to wake up. The difference is Trumpkins wanted to burn the house down and play in the rubble. Progressives want to burn the house down with a plan to rebuild it. 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,132

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7 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

It's also the refrain of people who want to pass a single molecule of legislation.

HospitableThinDunlin-size_restricted.gif

You don't need someone's heart, you just need their vote.

This is the entire point of focusing on building a grassroots political revolution of the people and not electing the safest, most palatable candidates.

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Hornius Emeritus

Hornius Emeritus 12,408

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5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

HospitableThinDunlin-size_restricted.gif

You don't need someone's heart, you just need their vote.

This is the entire point of focusing on building a grassroots political revolution of the people and not electing the safest, most palatable candidates.

 

This debate would work better were you to respond to a point that he actually made and not one that exists only in your head.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18,646

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32 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

- Ilhan Omar is not running for president.

- Barack Obama is not a subject of discussion and absolutely doesn't matter in this upcoming election.

- All of the 2020 Dem candidates like Obama as a person and think he was a good president.

This is extremely dumb.

I, also, really like Barack Obama. He is also pretty much a do-nothing who killed tens/hundreds-of-thousands of innocent people overseas. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

History will be kind to Obama. And he was far from do-nothing. His list of accomplishments as president is long. The ACA was the most important piece of legislation since Medicare. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,132

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It's not that complicated, you get people excited about a slate of policies and constantly push them to vote in candidates that support those policies. Then you get them to pressure existing Congresspeople to support those policies.

There are many reasons trying to compare Cruz and Omar is completely idiotic, and here are the two big ones:
- Ted Cruz is personally detestable in how he acts and treats people (not the case with Omar)
- Ted Cruz supported policies that were politically unpopular (not the case with Omar)

It's honestly offensive to even try and compare those two.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4,378

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17 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

History will be kind to Obama. And he was far from do-nothing. His list of accomplishments as president is long. The ACA was the most important piece of legislation since Medicare. 

It would actually be pretty awesome if they officially named the future single payer program Obamacare and retire the Medicare name.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,132

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Historically Giant Brains, "Oh boy, the American voter sure is going to be upset with someone who doesn't like the DC political establishment. Joe Voter wants one thing and one thing only, someone who is loyal to his party's leadership! If history teaches us anything, it's that voters only want a candidate who is uncritical of his predecessors! THESE LIBERAL LOONY LEFTIES HAVE SURE STEPPED IN IT NOW!!"

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4,378

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Just now, Fozzz said:

The whole point of Obamacare was to save the private insurance system from itself in order to stave off a public, universal healthcare system.  Thus, it would be pretty ironic to name such a system Obamacare.  

Not exactly.  The political situation at the time was horrendous.  The only way we were ever going to get positive change was with baby steps.  That is what the ACA did.  It wasn't Obama's platform plan.  It was a GOP plan.  What it did was open up the possibility for a future move to single payer that didn't exist prior.  And it locked in the idea of universal or near universal coverage.

Social benefits work like a ratchet.  Once they exist, you can't get rid of them.  Turn the gear ahead and it can't turn back.  And that proved true when the GOP couldn't undo the ACA while holding all the cards.  Its also why the GOP fights initial implementation tooth and nail.  It has been a long time since we could pass sweeping legislation like Social Security.  Incremental movement was a necessity. 

Without the ACA already in place, 2020 means you're bargaining to get something like the ACA rather than bargaining to get single payer.

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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41 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

The “grassroots political revolution” line that Cruz, AOC, bad teammate and other ideologically extreme attention grabbers use is also a dead giveaway.  It ought to be renamed “Deus ex machina” because it’s what you say when you know there’s no real plausible way to deliver on what you’re promising.  

“Yes, it may seem impossible now, but we could do it if we had a grassroots political revolution in which the people rose up outside the system and took everything we know today and, um ... made it not that way.”  Oh ok, that’s all that has to happen.  Thanks.

Well not with that attitude. It’s all plausible. How the fuck did we ever make it out of a cave?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,132

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If Vince had taken us from 2-10 to 7-5 then you'd be onto something, but Vince Young won us a national championship.

No 2020 candidate is "ripping" Obama. The most you're going to get out of a 2020 candidate is, "He did a lot of good things in a nearly impossible situation and we're going to build on what he did moving forward for the American people. He showed us that the Republicans don't operate in good faith and we are going to use that as an example."

If you're wondering about Bernie's track, it's not hard to find out. He did this in 2016 already, immediately after Obama. Nothing's changed, really.

 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12,271

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1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

Not exactly.  The political situation at the time was horrendous.  The only way we were ever going to get positive change was with baby steps.  That is what the ACA did.  It wasn't Obama's platform plan.  It was a GOP plan.  What it did was open up the possibility for a future move to single payer that didn't exist prior.  And it locked in the idea of universal or near universal coverage.

Social benefits work like a ratchet.  Once they exist, you can't get rid of them.  Turn the gear ahead and it can't turn back.  And that proved true when the GOP couldn't undo the ACA while holding all the cards.  Its also why the GOP fights initial implementation tooth and nail.  It has been a long time since we could pass sweeping legislation like Social Security.  Incremental movement was a necessity. 

Without the ACA already in place, 2020 means you're bargaining to get something like the ACA rather than bargaining to get single payer.

2008-2010 was a wasted opportunity IMO. The dems had the presidency,  the house, and for a limited period of time a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. And before it was fillibuster proof they could have gotten the other 2 republican votes,. And what did they do?

They passed republican Mitt Romney’s health care plan, without a single republican vote, and fired up the tea party idiots and the racists. 

They could have done so much more. Passed laws to protect workers rights, passsed laws to protect elections, passed laws to fix immigration policy, hell eliminate the filibuster and passed whatever the hell they wanted. And if you really wanted to piss everyone off anyway, just pass single payer and tell them to go fuck themselves. They did none of that. And they could have. 

The ACA was a decent step forward but its flawed and that was Obama’s signature accomplishment and it cost the dems heavily in the 2010 elections (the year of state redistricting I might add). Hurt the country for a decade. 

Obama was a good enough president but he was too cautious in my opinion. He probably was cautious because he’s the first black president and got shat on for wearing tan suits by the right wing idiots and racists, which sucks that was the case but it is what it is. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23,356

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Worthless Hugo dad’s political assessment.

Just got off the phone with dad and he’s still a huge Bernie fan but thinks he might be too old. He likes Warren but he’s spooked by the NH poll numbers (like that matters right now SMH).  I told him I thought the nomination is Kamala Harris’s to lose and he said he doesn’t trust her (that can’t put your finger on it kind of feeling),  I ask if I was picking up any misogyny in his assessment and he said no, he just doesn’t know enough about her.  

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12,791

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22 hours ago, SKJ said:

She doesn't, though.

She's not the absolute best candidate.

She checks all the mediocre boxes.

She's probably just a couple degrees better than Trump.

We have to stand up and fucking force the absolute best candidates through the system. 

Sounds like you’re mad that people have different opinions about who the best is.

 

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SKJ

SKJ 1,305

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Posted
1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

Sounds like you’re mad that people have different opinions about who the best is.

 

Not so. But the reasons behind needing groups and groups of people to settle for shitty candidates is what got us here. 

Trump is President. 

Harris's largest donor is Time-Warner. Trump will probably be able to use that to whip a decent conspiracy theory into a second victory, and CNN is right in the middle of that problem.

The Media liberal bias whatever whatever blah blah blah is a divisive enough issue to whip up his base plus some. 

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5,782

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Posted
1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

What if I think she’s the best candidate? According to you I’m part of the problem?

 

20 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Yes.

 

Warren would make the best president. 

Buttigieg would make the second best and is more likeable than Warren. 

Harris is the best actual candidate when you factor everything in. 

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12,791

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Yes.

Ok so basically you only care about your opinion. You are the problem.

 

To be clear, in no way do I think Harris is the best candidate. I just think it’s pretty rich to blame people for settling for candidates because they aren’t “the best” but only considering your own opinion about who is “the best”.

 

Its also rich that the negative you use against Harris the that Time Warner is a large donor and Trump can come up with some conspiracies. Essentially you’re arguing, not that she isn’t the best, but in fact that she is less electable. So not really sure even you know your point.

Edited by hobbes2702
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Js1

Js1 85,085

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6 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

What if I think she’s the best candidate? According to you I’m part of the problem?

If you don’t pick my candidate, I’ll have to sit out or be forced to vote for Trump!!!!!

This is becoming SOOOOO dumb. I’m so glad people are becoming more passionate. But only one person can be the nomine.  Don’t be butthurt losers if your guy/gal isn’t chosen by the primary voters and fuck it up for everyone else by being petty. 

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