2020 Democratic Nominee

[horncyclist 1384]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Rumor going around Beto announces within the week so maybe 

I mean, an announcement in Austin to his core supporters followed by a tour of Iowa, NH and SC would make a lot of sense. I would have expected a lot of lead up to it, like "I have a big announcement" emails. 

Hugo, do you ever sleep?

Edit: Where you seeing the rumors?

Edited March 9, 2019 by horncyclist

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

Sigh, I don’t remember where I heard the rumor.

I sleep plenty. 

[horncyclist 1384]

Saw some on twitter. Seems more anticipation than sourced rumors, but this around the time he said he would have  a decision. I mean, it's clear he's running, so they're just crafting the roll out at this point. Watching the build up to it, I'm feeling more and more like he's really going to shake up the race in a huge way and catapult himself to front-runner, or at a minimum with the top tier of Bernie, Kamala and Biden. I see him taking a lot of Biden and Bernie's support actually. Warren-Beto is still my dream ticket. Big ideas, policy chops, moral leadership, optimism. 

[Larry T. Spider 1740]

SXSW would be a great time to announce. When else can you have people from all over the country in one place that can go back and spread the hype? Tons of influencers (I hate that word) and people with money in town.

[Hank Kingsley 20607]

 

[Biff Tannen 45443]

14 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Sounds like you’re mad that people have different opinions about who the best is.

 

In case some of you wonder who the best is, they're up here on this plaque on the wall. The best driver and his RIO from each class has his name on it. And they have the option to come back here to be Top Gun instructors.

[Biff Tannen 45443]

1 hour ago, Larry T. Spider said:

SXSW would be a great time to announce. When else can you have people from all over the country in one place that can go back and spread the hype? Tons of influencers (I hate that word) and people with money in town.

Yeah, he needs to announce soon and SX is a great venue for it.

[SKJ 1298]

12 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Ok so basically you only care about your opinion. You are the problem.

 

To be clear, in no way do I think Harris is the best candidate. I just think it’s pretty rich to blame people for settling for candidates because they aren’t “the best” but only considering your own opinion about who is “the best”.

 

Its also rich that the negative you use against Harris the that Time Warner is a large donor and Trump can come up with some conspiracies. Essentially you’re arguing, not that she isn’t the best, but in fact that she is less electable. So not really sure even you know your point.

You just make my point. I was saying that she's not only not the best, she's also not even the most electable.

 

[hobbes2702 12771]

2 minutes ago, SKJ said:

You just make my point. I was saying that she's not only not the best, she's also not even the most electable.

 

Your “point” is fucking stupid and is just you being upset that other people disagree with who you think the best is. Grow up Peter Pan. Not everyone shares exactly your beliefs. I could give a fuck about what conspiracies Trump will start and I don’t think it makes her not “the best” or any less electable. I’ll tell you what, you can vote for whomever you want. I’ll vote for whomever I want. You know, democracy.

[SKJ 1298]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Your “point” is fucking stupid and is just you being upset that other people disagree with who you think the best is. Grow up Peter Pan. Not everyone shares exactly your beliefs. I could give a fuck about what conspiracies Trump will start and I don’t think it makes her not “the best” or any less electable. I’ll tell you what, you can vote for whomever you want. I’ll vote for whomever I want. You know, democracy.

Ha ha ha ha ha ok killer

[hobbes2702 12771]

Nice retort. Clearly you’re just so much smarter than all of us. Maybe we should just let you decide who’s the president with your big brain.

[Bama Chick 28596]

You just make my point. I was saying that she's not only not the best, she's also not even the most electable.
 

So, simple questions time.

Harris wins the Democratic nomination.

Who are you voting for? And will you continue to drag her to other voters?

[SKJ 1298]

The sad part is that, as a country, we put way more thought, work, and effort into picking a fucking football draft pick

[SKJ 1298]

6 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Nice retort. Clearly you’re just so much smarter than all of us. Maybe we should just let you decide who’s the president with your big brain.

You should take a step back. I did. I took a day off and I feel much less tired of this shitshow of politics.

[SKJ 1298]

6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

So, simple questions time.

Harris wins the Democratic nomination.

Who are you voting for? And will you continue to drag her to other voters?

 

I'm not sure what I'd do. I probably won't even vote.

 

I generally don't vote because neither is worth a fuck. I'm guessing I'll be having that opinion after the first primary

[horncyclist 1384]

Yeah, he needs to announce soon and SX is a great venue for it.

He's teasing an announcement to his list/on social media. "Be the first to hear" sort of thing. Way to get people to sign up but it also means his announcement is near.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[horncyclist 1384]

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[hobbes2702 12771]

7 minutes ago, SKJ said:

You should take a step back. I did. I took a day off and I feel much less tired of this shitshow of politics.

I’m not sure why you seem to think I’m angry. You’re just making really stupid “points” that are laced with egotism.

[SKJ 1298]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

I’m not sure why you seem to think I’m angry. You’re just making really stupid “points” that are laced with egotism.

I'm not saying you're angry, but you are kind of leaving towards being insulting which would tend to denote anger.

Trust me, I know. That's why I took a day off, to get my head back normal

[hobbes2702 12771]

Just now, SKJ said:

I'm not saying you're angry, but you are kind of leaving towards being insulting which would tend to denote anger.

Trust me, I know. That's why I took a day off, to get my head back normal

That’s because your entire premise is insulting to everyone here. Your entire point is that you know better than we do. That’s why I’m telling you to grow up.

[SKJ 1298]

Now I feel like you're trying to argue.

You want to keep pushing, keep pushing. What you need to realize is that while I need to grow up, you need to wise up.

The way it stands now, all that matters is fucking name recognition and fucking money. That's our system. You seem to think that that's a working system.  The moron vote, the money vote and the TV time are all that will choose our next president. Is the system working?

I need to grow up?

 

[hobbes2702 12771]

In no way do I think the system is working. I’ve never once said that. You literally said that if I have a different opinion than you do than I’m wrong. That’s literally not how anything works. I will vote how I want to vote and you’re free to do the same. Stop acting as though you are so much wiser and superior to everyone and that only your opinion matters. 

Obviously name recognition and money are important to getting elected. That’s part of the problem. It leads to bad candidates. I don’t base my politics on name recognition. I base my politics on policy. I’m also not a child and realize that not everyone believes exactly what I believe and not every candidate agrees with me 100%. If my choice is Trump vs random dem that supports 75% of what I do then it’s an easy choice to vote for the person who agrees with me 75% rather than the worst person ever elected to office. Your inability to understand that compromise is part of democracy shows that you aren’t nearly the deep thinker that you seem to view yourself as.

[SKJ 1298]

I AM LITERALLY SAYING THAT PEOPLE SETTLING FOR "ELECTABLE" OR WHATEVER OTHER WAY YOU WANT TO PUT IT, ARE THE FUCKING PROBLEM.

how can you not understand that?

My favorite candidate, Mr. Yang, had started he would like to have a ranked choice ballot, which would help that situation, but as of now it doesn't.

So we get stuck with nothing but bullshit

[Hank Kingsley 20607]

[retread 2951]

I don't think she'll recover from eating salad with a comb.

[hobbes2702 12771]

5 minutes ago, SKJ said:

I AM LITERALLY SAYING THAT PEOPLE SETTLING FOR "ELECTABLE" OR WHATEVER OTHER WAY YOU WANT TO PUT IT, ARE THE FUCKING PROBLEM.

how can you not understand that?

My favorite candidate, Mr. Yang, had started he would like to have a ranked choice ballot, which would help that situation, but as of now it doesn't.

So we get stuck with nothing but bullshit

 

39 minutes ago, SKJ said:

You should take a step back. I did. I took a day off and I feel much less tired of this shitshow of politics.

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Again, accepting reality and trying to work within that reality to make things better is not settling.

And it’s infinitely more productive then being a ranting Don Quixote tilting at windmills, screaming at everyone else about what sheep they are, and when you don’t get your way, you take your pony and go home and pout.

I’m glad you’ve fallen in love with Yang.

Yang isn’t going to be the nominee.

So it’s up to you to decide to holler at everyone else for not agreeing with you and allow your petulance to help Trump or to be a grown ass man and join the fight, keep politely advocating Yang’s message and hope he gets a seat at the table in a Democratic administration.

It’s time for some tough love for my liberal brothers and sisters - fucking knuckle up and fall in line, bitches. Ain’t got no time for coddling and hand holding. Your guy or gal didn’t win? Tough shit! We have a great evil to defeat and no one has the patience for your navel gazing over what could have been.

It’s time to run through a wall and get the filth out of our White House.

[Hank Kingsley 20607]

12 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

It’s time for some tough love for my liberal brothers and sisters - fucking knuckle up and fall in line, bitches. Ain’t got no time for coddling and hand holding. Your guy or gal didn’t win? Tough shit! We have a great evil to defeat and no one has the patience for your navel gazing over what could have been.

It’s time to run through a wall and get the filth out of our White House.

Democratic primaries start in 11 months. That's like 10 years worth of time in a Trump presidency. No one should "fall in line" right now.  We need ideas brought to the table and D voters need to keep an open mind. You have a favorite? Speak up and tell us why. You have concerns about a particular candidate? I'm listening.   I will 100% vote for whoever wins the D nomination, but I'm not "falling in line" until the winner emerges.

I agree that SKJ saying he might not vote at all if Yang doesn't win the nomination is foolish and stubborn. But whatever poll numbers we're getting are meaningless until at least the debates. There is plenty of time for candidates to catch fire or completely fall off the map. 

I also don't think we should ignore the escalating confrontations between progressives and establishment Ds.  We can't pretend it doesn't exist and the fight ABSOLUTELY needs to happen. Before we even get to the Presidential war, the battle in the Democratic party needs to play out. 

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

I absolutely agree with all that.

My frustration is with the purists who fall in love with their hero and literally declare the rest of us idiots for not seeing what they see.

(It’s part of my aggravation with some Bernie supporters. Like, their tendency to just hand wave anyone not All Bernie, All The Time as “shitlibs” and the demeaning dismissive behavior.)

I want a robust primary. I want to hear all about what all the candidates think and their stories.

But you’re not winning me over with scoffs and smirks and insults and a starting point of defensiveness if I have doubts or sincere questions about something.

Have a conversation with people. Convince people. Engage in good faith, don’t write me off as a DINO because I have issues with something Elizabeth Warren said and I would like clarification on it.

And once all that’s done and we have a nominee, I don’t want to relive the primaries during the general. The ongoing sniping between Clinton and Sanders supporters that lasted through the general election was a huge distraction and I think played a role in low turnout. Which combined with the conventional wisdom that Trump had no shot, was catastrophic on Election Day 2016.

All that to say, everyone support your guy or gal but you don’t have to be a dick while doing it. All that does is lead to hard feelings and resentment leading into the the main event when we need to be at our most united. And I, for one, will have little tolerance for folks who act like babies if the nominee isn’t their guy or gal.

As you said, it’s over a year away before we have a nominee and people are already crying about opting out if everybody doesn’t do it their way.

And I just cannot tolerate that. The thought of fucking this up with so many great candidates to choose from and ending up with four more years of Trump is just something I can’t even allow myself to imagine.

[Hank Kingsley 20607]

 

[Js1 85020]

5 hours ago, SKJ said:

I'm not sure what I'd do. I probably won't even vote.

 

I generally don't vote because neither is worth a fuck. I'm guessing I'll be having that opinion after the first primary

Okay thanks. Next. You’re part of the problem if you sit out Bc your guy didn’t win and then spend 2021-24 bitching about how “you all” re-elected Trump. 

Get fucked with you sit at home bullshit so you can blame other people. Big brain victim voter syndrome

Edited March 10, 2019 by Js1

[Js1 85020]

5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

[Dolemite 143]

6 hours ago, SKJ said:

I AM LITERALLY SAYING THAT PEOPLE SETTLING FOR "ELECTABLE" OR WHATEVER OTHER WAY YOU WANT TO PUT IT, ARE THE FUCKING PROBLEM.

how can you not understand that?

My favorite candidate, Mr. Yang, had started he would like to have a ranked choice ballot, which would help that situation, but as of now it doesn't.

So we get stuck with nothing but bullshit

I think Yang is the best candidate too. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Oh, Amy.

Trump is a fucking goldmine of humor and your best shot is “Mr. Umbrella Man”????

I physically cringed just reading it, I cannot imagine how awkward that was in person.

Good article on how democrat voters are defining “electability” - and it’s not “choose the most milquetoast middle of the road moderate”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/mollyhensleyclancy/democrats-2020-electability-president

Democratic Voters Want “Electability,” But That Doesn’t Mean They Want A Centrist For President

Dozens of voters said they see “electability” as a combination of personality, energy, and ability to connect with an audience that has little to do with ideology.

Molly Hensley-Clancy
Molly Hensley-Clancy
BuzzFeed News Reporter

Reporting From
Nashua, New Hampshire
Posted on March 6, 2019, at 10:21 a.m. ET

Michael George Haddad for BuzzFeed News

NASHUA, New Hampshire — When a group of voters leaving an event for Sen. Elizabeth Warren piled into an elevator, buttoning up coats and putting on gloves, the conversation immediately turned to a familiar topic.

“They’re all good — all of the Democrats,” one woman said. “The question is, who’s going to be able to go up against Trump? Take all his bullshit and throw it back to at him.”

“Honestly,” a stranger agreed. “That’s all I care about.”

“They have to be as ruthless as he is,” a third woman said.

But the first woman disagreed. “Not even ruthless — just smart. That’s all I want.”

They laughed. As the elevator door opened, one added: “Let’s just beat the bastard.”

In past presidential elections, Democrats sought out candidates who shared their values and priorities. But this time, in the shadow of President Donald Trump, polls show many Democratic voters are prioritizing one thing: electability.

In some circles, the word “electable” has become a proxy for moderate — a political centrist whose policies appeal to swing voters in states Trump won in 2016. Sen. Amy Klobuchar has electability, some say, because she won reelection by broad margins in Minnesota, a state where Trump barely lost in 2016. Allies of Joe Biden, with his history of bipartisanship and working-class centrism, claim electability is his strongest case for the

Who might not have it? Mostly candidates in the most progressive wing of the party: Elizabeth Warren might have an “electability problem.” So, some have worried, might Bernie Sanders.

But the vast majority of Democratic voters aren’t thinking about electability in terms of ideology, geography, or electoral margin, according to interviews with more than 50 Democratic voters in early primary states.

Far from tying electability to centrism or moderation, voters said they cared about rhetoric, personality, energy, and momentum when deciding if a candidate could win. Many others said they were looking primarily for someone who spoke specifically to the concerns of working-class people. Some wanted a fighter who could parry Trump’s rhetoric. Just two said they were looking for a political moderate.

Their answers illustrate a conundrum for Democratic candidates in 2020. What is seemingly a broad voter consensus — that Democratic voters are searching for electability — is, in reality, a much more varied desire.

What voters are actually saying also undercuts a narrative about the choices Democrats will make in the 2020 primaries. While polls have forced Democrats to reckon with choices between candidates who agree with them on issues and those who might beat Trump, voters overwhelmingly said they saw little conflict between the issues they cared about, like Medicare for All and income inequality, and a candidate’s electability.

Jonathan Lamb, a meteorologist in West Ashley, South Carolina, attended an event for Sen. Kamala Harris in February to “get a feel for whether she’s electable — though I don’t know how you quantify that.”

“I put a lot of weight into how they speak,” he said. He was passionate about lots of “political hot potatoes,” like gun control and reproductive rights, but in the end, his decision would come down to one thing: “I’m just trying to imagine this person debating Donald Trump, and how they would hold up.”

Anita Wilkie of Plymouth, New Hampshire, said her priority was to find a candidate who could beat Trump in 2020; she had been making the rounds to candidates’ early events, looking for someone who she thought would be electable.

“That’s it, that’s exactly it,” she said at an event for Sen. Elizabeth Warren in February. “I was telling my sister this morning, ‘I know each candidate is not going to agree with what I want; it can’t happen that way. It’s the electability.’”

But what “electability” would look like, Wilkie couldn’t quite say. “It’s gotta touch me,” she said. “It’s gotta touch me, not just in my heart, but in my gut. I go by my gut feeling.”

On the eve of the 2018 midterms, the center-left think tank Third Way, which has opposed many far-left policies, posed a question for Democrats and independents in battleground districts across the country. To win future elections, would they want to see the Democratic Party “move to the left to generate enthusiasm” or “appeal to a broad range of voters, including people who may have voted for Donald Trump in 2016”? Seventy percent of respondents said they wanted the party to seek broad appeal instead of move to the left; the think tank touted it as evidence of support for their politics.

Voters in New Hampshire and South Carolina often spoke of “broad appeal” too — something many said was the most important thing for a candidate to have in order to beat Trump. But they didn’t see appeal as Third Way envisioned it — as a choice between policy directions.

Many voters looking to find a candidate with “broad appeal” said they were looking at the way candidates spoke — hoping to find someone who “phrased things in a mainstream way,” as one voter said, or who “emphasized the working people.” Others said they were looking at who appealed widely by speaking to the concerns of racial minorities; one said that to him, “broad appeal” meant speaking better to white women.

Electability was “absolutely” important to Kathy, a university employee who attended an event for Warren at Plymouth State University in New Hampshire. “They have to be able to speak to everyone’s concerns, not just a narrow segment,” she said.

That ability wasn’t rooted in whether someone was progressive or moderate, Kathy said. “In the age of Trump, the way you talk about things is really important. Even more than what you say, it’s how you say it.”

Some pollsters have set up Democrats for a conflict between prioritizing the issues they care about and doing whatever they can to beat Trump. Monmouth, in February, asked whether Democrats would prefer “a Democrat you agree with on most issues but would have a hard time beating Donald Trump” to one who they did not agree with but could more easily defeat Trump. Most picked the Democrat who would beat Trump more easily.

But in interviews, most Democratic voters rejected the idea that the two choices were at odds. Progressives, especially, said they thought that being on the far left edge of issues would be a boost against Trump, rather than a hindrance. Some said they thought progressive policies themselves were the missing piece to a candidate who had “broad appeal.”

Electability is “someone who’s not afraid to be a Democrat,” said Heather Levine, a teacher in North Charleston, South Carolina, who attended a Harris rally in February. “I’m not interested in a moderate who will back down. I think that’s the mistake we made in 2016. We didn’t get that excitement going. It needs to be about policy.”

Few Democrats said they saw a reason to compromise on the issues that were important to them, like health care — even as they sought, first and foremost, to find someone who could win the next election.

Austin Atkinson, a sports agent in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina, said he didn’t need a candidate who agreed with him on many issues. A lifelong Republican with little love for Trump, he’d come to an event for Harris in a South Carolina gymnasium to judge the “energy” around Harris’s campaign. Could Harris beat Trump? “That’s why I’m here,” he said, “to see.”

It didn’t bother him that Harris, who supports progressive policies like Medicare for All and the Green New Deal, was far to the left of him on many issues.

“I just need someone who will stick to their guns and represent the people that elected them and not cater to special interests,” Atkinson said.

Yes, yes, yes to ALL of this -

Electability is “someone who’s not afraid to be a Democrat,” said Heather Levine, a teacher in North Charleston, South Carolina, who attended a Harris rally in February. “I’m not interested in a moderate who will back down. I think that’s the mistake we made in 2016. We didn’t get that excitement going. It needs to be about policy.”

[Hank Kingsley 20607]

 

[David Dennison 18492]

9 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

Primary concerns.

[bad_teammate 13120]

7 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

hahahha fucking Dems, it's amazing

Beto is perfect for them. Absolutely perfect.

----------------------------------------

Iowa CNN/Des Moines Register Poll

December 2018

Biden - 32%
Sanders - 19%
O'Rourke - 11%
Warren - 8%
Harris - 5%

March 2019

Biden 27% (-5)
Sanders 25% (+6)
Warren 9% (+1)
Harris 7% (+2)
O’Rourke 5% (-6)

[David Dennison 18492]

That is so depressing.

[bad_teammate 13120]

Hell yes, here we go.

First Dem-on-Dem candidate attack has happened and it's Julian Castro going after the frontrunner.

Full quote:

There's a tremendous amount of disagreement on how we would do that, but let me say something about Senator Sanders's response there. He was also asked this question in 2016. What he said on The View the other day, I think, he didn't think the best way to address this was for the United States to write a check. To my mind that may or may not be the best way to address it. However, it's interesting to me that when it comes to ‘Medicare for all,' health care, you know the response has we need to write a big check, that when it comes to tuition-free or debt-free college, the answer has been we need to write a big check. So if the issue is compensation think the argue about writing a big check ought to be the argument you make if you're making the argument that a big check needs to be written for a whole bunch of other stuff.

If you're way in the back and you want some attention, attack the frontrunner.

(Castro doesn't even have a reparations policy lol)

Edited March 10, 2019 by bad_teammate

[Js1 85020]

Castro wasn’t talking about any of this until he decided to run.....

I really dislike how terrible the Castros are. Slimy really describes them. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Can someone explain why Castro is running? 

[Larry T. Spider 1740]

Reparations talk is a great way to get trump re-elected. Let’s focus on real shit that can actually happen like making sure every American has access to affordable healthcare, fixing our immigration policy, and ensuring that trump doesn’t have another 2 or 3 Supreme Court justices. Those issues are winners with just about everybody other than people that were never going to vote for a dem anyway.

[Js1 85020]

19 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That is so depressing.

The Iowa front runners in Feb 2015 were Hillary by a gazillion and Scott Walker - lmao. 

 

[bad_teammate 13120]

Reparations talk is a great way to get trump re-elected. Let’s focus on real shit that can actually happen like making sure every American has access to affordable healthcare, fixing our immigration policy, and ensuring that trump doesn’t have another 2 or 3 Supreme Court justices. Those issues are winners with just about everybody other than people that were never going to vote for a dem anyway.

True, but the playbook to assassinate Bernie will be a transparently cynical exploitation of identity politics.

They cannot let him win.

They would rather lose overall than have Bernie wrest control of the party from the center/center-right establishment.

[JimmyJames 12271]

When I think of Castro, which is rare, I think more of “lightweight” than “establishment.”

[Fudge Nuggets 19114]

22 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Nice retort. Clearly you’re just so much smarter than all of us. Maybe we should just let you decide who’s the president with your big brain.

I thought he was all in on the Andrew Yang dude.  You know, the guy that has about as much chance of winning as I do.  Strike that, I have more of a chance because I’m white and don’t have a foreign sounding last name.

[horncyclist 1384]

hahahha fucking Dems, it's amazing
Beto is perfect for them. Absolutely perfect.
----------------------------------------
Iowa CNN/Des Moines Register Poll
December 2018
Biden - 32%
Sanders - 19%
O'Rourke - 11%
Warren - 8%
Harris - 5%
March 2019
Biden 27% (-5)
Sanders 25% (+6)
Warren 9% (+1)
Harris 7% (+2)
O’Rourke 5% (-6)

All this shows is the effect of announcing and to some degree, announcing well. I guarantee you Biden and Beto would see an instant 5-10 point bumb after announcing.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Dropout 355]

I agree something isn’t right with Castro.

Wanted Bernie and Warren to start. Warren has dropped a bit for me. I’d go Bernie, Yang, Butt, Warren and then Harris/Beto in that order right now.

I think Yang will pull the party left. Great. Pete is pretty good overall. Just view those two as more progressive than Warren, Harris, and Beto.

Bernie started the progressive movement long ago. He knows DC. Think this is important at this point in time. He is a dog. He is the only one I trust to not give an inch across his platform and fight for what he told the people he would fight for. His history speaks for itself and that is not going to change. I’m riding w Bernie until the end. He’s earned it.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

Today would be a good day for Bernie to release his taxes. 

[Dropout 355]

You’ll get em Hugo. Have a little faith.