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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,195

Posted
Posted

Headline: New 2020 poll: Good news for Buttigieg and Harris, slippage for Biden and Sanders

Based on that, Buttigieg and Harris moved up significantly and Biden and Sanders moved down, right?

lol no

Biden: 35%-33% (-2)
Sanders: 25%-25% (even)
Harris: 8%-8% (even)
Buttigieg: 2%-3% (+1)

Also fun and relevant...

Biden supporters go to...

Sanders: 35%
Harris: 11%
O'Rourke: 11%

I'm terrible at math, but Biden being off the list would result in:
Sanders: 37%
Harris: 12%
O'Rourke: 12%
 

 

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horncyclist

horncyclist 1,387

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Headline: New 2020 poll: Good news for Buttigieg and Harris, slippage for Biden and Sanders

Based on that, Buttigieg and Harris moved up significantly and Biden and Sanders moved down, right?

lol no

Biden: 35%-33% (-2)
Sanders: 25%-25% (even)
Harris: 8%-8% (even)
Buttigieg: 2%-3% (+1)

Also fun and relevant...

Biden supporters go to...

Sanders: 35%
Harris: 11%
O'Rourke: 11%

I'm terrible at math, but Biden being off the list would result in:
Sanders: 37%
Harris: 12%
O'Rourke: 12%
 

 

This is all still driven primarily by name recognition and familiarity. Biden supporters go to Bernie Sanders because he's the other widely-known candidate. Bernie as nominee in 2020 would be an unmitigated disaster, probably resulting in the reelection of Trump as moderate democrats stay home or vote for Howard Schultz. There is no revolution. People do not want it. I'm sorry. Please do not let your bitterness keep you home. 

 

 

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horncyclist

horncyclist 1,387

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Posted

Biden's problem is that what's been described is very similar to what forced Al Franken to resign. I do not see how you can draw a distinction. Perhaps arguing that Franken's inappropriate touching was more sexual in nature, but good luck with that argument. Nevermind that we have a President who skips the slight inappropriateness and goes straight for the pussy, but this is apparently the standard we've set. Both cases are probably more an example of mostly harmless behavior that became unacceptable due to changing norms. I think we should probably be more forgiving of such past conduct, but again, this is the world we live in. 

 

 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4,378

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

Biden's problem is that what's been described is very similar to what forced Al Franken to resign. I do not see how you can draw a distinction. Perhaps arguing that Franken's inappropriate touching was more sexual in nature, but good luck with that argument. Nevermind that we have a President who skips the slight inappropriateness and goes straight for the pussy, but this is apparently the standard we've set. Both cases are probably more an example of mostly harmless behavior that became unacceptable due to changing norms. I think we should probably be more forgiving of such past conduct, but again, this is the world we live in. 

 

 

Not exactly. Franken also grabbed a woman's breasts while she was sleeping.  That and him forcibly kissing the same woman on stage were his downfall. 

Franken's photo gropes at county fairs seemed fairly benign to me, and he would probably still be around if they were all he did.  I don't think there should be a problem with putting an arm around someone during a photo. Over 1000s of photos, there is bound to be some accidental touching when moving the arm. Joe does go well past that with the cheek kissing and face touching, however. 

It's a fine line to walk because a politician needs to be approachable. Part of that is taking pictures with people when asked. We are getting to the point where politicians will need to refuse to take pictures with people altogether, or take them while standing there like a statue.  Neither of those express warmth or approachability. 

Edited by FondrenRoad
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horncyclist

horncyclist 1,387

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Not exactly. Franken also grabbed a woman's breasts while she was sleeping.  That and him forcibly kissing the same woman on stage were his downfall. 

Franken's photo gropes at county fairs seemed fairly benign to me, and he would probably still be around if they were all he did.  I don't think there should be a problem with putting an arm around someone during a photo. Over 1000s of photos, there is bound to be some accidental touching when moving the arm. Joe does go well past that with the cheek kissing and face touching, however. 

It's a fine line to walk because a politician needs to be approachable. Part of that is taking pictures with people when asked. We are getting to the point where politicians will need to refuse to take pictures with people altogether, or take them while standing there like a statue.  Neither of those express warmth or approachability. 

I don't think it was ever established that he touched her and the kiss was part of the act. That part all seemed to be a political attack. The steady flow of stories about touching during photos is what did him in. 

 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,195

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, horncyclist said:

This is all still driven primarily by name recognition and familiarity. Biden supporters go to Bernie Sanders because he's the other widely-known candidate. Bernie as nominee in 2020 would be an unmitigated disaster, probably resulting in the reelection of Trump as moderate democrats stay home or vote for Howard Schultz. There is no revolution. People do not want it. I'm sorry. Please do not let your bitterness keep you home.

Name recognition is absolutely party of it.

I'm not sure what you take away from that, though. Name recognition matters a lot and it isn't an automatic that everyone is going to hit 100% in time for the primaries. People knowing who you are is very important to winning and is very often a strong indicator of other factors (early volunteer support, fundraising, etc...).

The vast majority of voters don't pay attention to this stuff as much as we do. Familiarity and vaguely positive feelings matter quite a bit. Bernie is basically 100% known among primary voters and at a 77% favorable/14% unfavorable. (Warren 17% unfavorable, Biden & Kamala 11% unfavorable, but that's about to go up for Joe).

Beto is at 76% known with 46% favorable/14% unfavorable.

Of course, all this is early, but the numbers for Bernie are very strong.

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Dropout

Dropout 355

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, horncyclist said:

This is all still driven primarily by name recognition and familiarity. Biden supporters go to Bernie Sanders because he's the other widely-known candidate. Bernie as nominee in 2020 would be an unmitigated disaster, probably resulting in the reelection of Trump as moderate democrats stay home or vote for Howard Schultz. There is no revolution. People do not want it. I'm sorry. Please do not let your bitterness keep you home. 

 

 

Let me know what else you can pull out of your ass. Maybe start w your head. 

Almost giving a pass to the moderate Democrats who may stay home while at the same time criticizing the “bitterness” of Bernie supporters. Just reeks of denial and desperation. 

There is a revolution. People do want it. I’m sorry. Please do not let your bitterness keep you home. That was easy. Especially when plenty of statistics back it up.

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17,729

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, horncyclist said:

This is all still driven primarily by name recognition and familiarity. Biden supporters go to Bernie Sanders because he's the other widely-known candidate. Bernie as nominee in 2020 would be an unmitigated disaster, probably resulting in the reelection of Trump as moderate democrats stay home or vote for Howard Schultz. There is no revolution. People do not want it. I'm sorry. Please do not let your bitterness keep you home. 

  

  

Man, I was getting excited about Bernie having a good chance to win the nomination, but this guy is right. I don't see how anyone can argue with this. 

Edited by Hank Scorpio
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23,367

Posted
Posted

Let’s say Bernie becomes president, what exactly do you expect him to accomplish and how is he going to accomplish it?  He isn’t exactly the pragmatic progressive. 

Perhaps the counter revolution President Bernie would galvanize would do more harm than good.  

I’m glad Bernie has moved the Democratic Party to a place with better ideas, conversations, and solutions but I’m not exactly optimistic with him in the White House.

Of course he’s light years better than Trump and I’d vote for him over any republican but I don’t understand why he alone needs to be president when there are more palatable alternatives that could do a better job of furthering his causes in the White House.

(runs for cover from BT).

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23,469

Posted
Posted

 

30 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Man, I was getting excited about Bernie having a good chance to win the nomination, but this guy is right. I don't see how anyone can argue with this. 

Nobody should be surprised when Bernie gets railroaded by the DNC again. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,195

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Let’s say Bernie becomes president, what exactly do you expect him to accomplish and how is he going to accomplish it?  He isn’t exactly the pragmatic progressive. 

Pragmatism isn't going to accomplish anything, and you actually know that, but you keep saying it. You should do some self-reflection about why you stick to narratives you know are untrue and cannot defend.

The "how" is something he talks about continuously: A political revolution.

There is no getting votes from Republicans. It's not an option. And the progressives will be knifed in the back by the Pelosis and Manchins. The only way to achieve a progressive agenda is to sweep progressives into Congress to such an extent that (1) they will just vote for progressive things because they are progressive or (2) they will vote for progressive things because they know they will be primaried and voted out of office if they don't. They don't want AOC blowing them up on twitter. They don't want the Justice Democrats turning the Eye of Socialist Sauron onto their seat.

Here's the good news: The political revolution is already underway.

AOC, Ilhan Omar, that's all from Bernie's political revolution that started in 2015. We had 30 years of almost completely stagnant Democratic policy and, within 2 years of Bernie launching his campaign, we are HARD left of where we were and every single ounce of young energy is to the left of Clinton 2016. The most impressive young 2020 candidate literally wrote his award-winning high school essay about Bernie.

It's already happening and you can't stop it. It might not culminate in 2020, but it's coming.

Quote

Perhaps the counter revolution President Bernie would galvanize would do more harm than good.

We might get some lunatic like Donald Trump!!!

Quote

Of course he’s light years better than Trump and I’d vote for him over any republican but I don’t understand why he alone needs to be president when there are more palatable alternatives that could do a better job of furthering his causes in the White House.

Which 2020 candidates support his causes? What does "more palatable" mean? More palatable to you?

Bernie remains the most popular politician in America. #1 in the Senate for 11 years in a row.

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Longhorn94

Longhorn94 2,448

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Posted

Bernie is a waste of time. He is unelectable. He has a place, or at least, his ideas have a place in the discussion. But he does not. And Bernie's ideas are good for pushing the discussion left and making sure we have a full discourse. But his ideas wholesale are not good for America as a whole. We need a balanced, pragmatic, progressive approach, not wholesale socialism or communism. We need to establish social services, not socialism, that provide education, health care, etc. We need to marry those social services that provide a healthy, educated workforce with an capitalistic economic system. 

I favor Beto, Kamala, Klobuchar and Biden in some sort of combination that works best for electing a Democrat and getting Trump out of office. 

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Zonahorn

Zonahorn 8,079

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

Bernie is a waste of time. He is unelectable. He has a place, or at least, his ideas have a place in the discussion. But he does not. And Bernie's ideas are good for pushing the discussion left and making sure we have a full discourse. But his ideas wholesale are not good for America as a whole. We need a balanced, pragmatic, progressive approach, not wholesale socialism or communism. We need to establish social services, not socialism, that provide education, health care, etc. We need to marry those social services that provide a healthy, educated workforce with an capitalistic economic system. 

I favor Beto, Kamala, Klobuchar and Biden in some sort of combination that works best for electing a Democrat and getting Trump out of office. 

You seem like you suck.

 

EDIT: Judging by your reaction I may have been whooshed.

Edited by Calihorn
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Skyline

Skyline 325

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Let’s say Bernie becomes president, what exactly do you expect him to accomplish and how is he going to accomplish it?  He isn’t exactly the pragmatic progressive. 

Perhaps the counter revolution President Bernie would galvanize would do more harm than good.  

I’m glad Bernie has moved the Democratic Party to a place with better ideas, conversations, and solutions but I’m not exactly optimistic with him in the White House.

Of course he’s light years better than Trump and I’d vote for him over any republican but I don’t understand why he alone needs to be president when there are more palatable alternatives that could do a better job of furthering his causes in the White House.

(runs for cover from BT).

Bernie isn't like the Tea Party. He's been ok with voting for less than progressive ideas for the sake of pragmatism. As long as it advances left. 

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28,596

Posted
Posted

Why would you assume I wouldn’t take her to task for the same underhanded horseshit???

 

Seriously. She’s a dishonest hack and should be ridiculed.

 

But please continue to leap to conclusions about opinions you think I hold on articles I don’t even know exist by women I’ve never heard of who are married to irrelevant candidates who watch porn with their mothers.

 

You’re exhausting and quite frankly you’ve become quite unhinged in your increasingly desperate defense of any perceived criticism of Bernie.

 

PS - David Sirota is still a gross hack despite Hickenlooper’s wife being a hack. It’s not a zero sum game.

 

People poke fun at me for being a Beto groupie and the whole calf cramping thing. And I think it’s funny and play along.

 

People point you’re ready to knock someone’s teeth out if they ask about Bernie’s tax returns and you fly into an apoplectic fit.

 

Your Bernie Boner has persisted for much longer than 48 hours. It’s time for a visit to the ER, gramps.

 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, horncyclist said:

Biden's problem is that what's been described is very similar to what forced Al Franken to resign. I do not see how you can draw a distinction. Perhaps arguing that Franken's inappropriate touching was more sexual in nature, but good luck with that argument. Nevermind that we have a President who skips the slight inappropriateness and goes straight for the pussy, but this is apparently the standard we've set. Both cases are probably more an example of mostly harmless behavior that became unacceptable due to changing norms. I think we should probably be more forgiving of such past conduct, but again, this is the world we live in. 

 

 

D7606699-AB70-4-DA4-A97-D-6-E8-C7-BC8-E7

 

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gmr548

gmr548 16,580

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Posted

As for the Bernie being unelectable thing, that really doesn't hold up. Remember that the alternative is Donald Trump. Aside from the first month of his presidency, his approval ratings have topped out in the low 40s. He only got to the mid 40s in the election. The three states critical to his election rebuked him in the midterms, two of them resoundingly. His ceiling has absolutely been established and it isn't very high.

Bernie consistently leads Trump in polling. Bernie beat Clinton in WI and MI, and was more popular than her among white voters without college degrees in all three states. While we'll obviously never know, the tea leaves indicate Bernie probably wins in 2016 if he is the nominee. He has already established himself as plenty electable.

Now, consider that approximately zero of the 63 million Clinton voters will be switching sides regardless of who the D nominee is - if you felt compelled to vote for her in 16, there is damn sure nothing you've seen out of Trump that makes you regret that at all. Also consider that the black vote and youth vote were down in 2016; watching four years of the unmitigated shitshow that is the Trump admin is going to pull many in both blocs off the sidelines, and as the midterms and special elections have demonstrated, it isn't to support Trump. Also add that Sanders himself generates considerably more enthusiasm out of young voters than Clinton did.

I'm no Bernie bro, but if you think Sanders isn't electable then you are either astonishingly oblivious to reality or purposefully ignoring it.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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Zonahorn

Zonahorn 8,079

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

No, you were right. I just don't react negatively when people disagree with me. 

You're in the wrong neighborhood my guy.

To actually respond, you want the conversation moved left, but not to the left. which is, confusing, to say the least.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,195

Posted
Posted

@Bama Chick

I wasn't presuming your reaction; I was pointing out the amusing (to me) similarity and how this was a real and actual example of the Fake News regarding Sirota/Sanders.

The conspiracy theorizing with regard to Sanders is fun. He's secretly hiring David Sirota to write hit pieces (he wasn't). He's working with Lucy Flores to take down Biden (he wasn't). He's stealing all of Hillary's ideas to make her look bad (he wasn't). He's hiding Russian Kompromat in his tax returns (lol that's bait for Hugo).

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

$9.4 million for Beto

Bernie in first week: $10M from 360k donors

Beto in first 3 weeks: $9.4M from 223k donors

giphy.gif

Just now, Calihorn said:

How the fuck did Kamala raise $12 million?

She has been raising since January 21st. Beto announced March 14th.

Beto will beat $12M in his first 2 months. Handily.

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17,729

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Longhorn94 said:

Bernie is a waste of time. He is unelectable. He has a place, or at least, his ideas have a place in the discussion. But he does not. And Bernie's ideas are good for pushing the discussion left and making sure we have a full discourse. But his ideas wholesale are not good for America as a whole. We need a balanced, pragmatic, progressive approach, not wholesale socialism or communism. We need to establish social services, not socialism, that provide education, health care, etc. We need to marry those social services that provide a healthy, educated workforce with an capitalistic economic system. 

I favor Beto, Kamala, Klobuchar and Biden in some sort of combination that works best for electing a Democrat and getting Trump out of office. 

Hell yes my guy. We need someone in here to represent the most centrist of the centrists who have ever been in the center. 

You know what we have? Problems. And you know what we need? Solutions. What kind of solutions? Good ones. We need to do good and not do bad. We need to take a careful look at all the facts and decide. But before we decide we need to look at both sides. And once we do all this we have to find the solution that is most in the middle. For everyone. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29,354

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Hell yes my guy. We need someone in here to represent the most centrist of the centrists who have ever been in the center. 

You know what we have? Problems. And you know what we need? Solutions. What kind of solutions? Good ones. We need to do good and not do bad. We need to take a careful look at all the facts and decide. But before we decide we need to look at both sides. And once we do all this we have to find the solution that is most in the middle. For everyone. 

And most importantly, we must always be twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

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NowThis

NowThis 931

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Hell yes my guy. We need someone in here to represent the most centrist of the centrists who have ever been in the center. 

You know what we have? Problems. And you know what we need? Solutions. What kind of solutions? Good ones. We need to do good and not do bad. We need to take a careful look at all the facts and decide. But before we decide we need to look at both sides. And once we do all this we have to find the solution that is most in the middle. For everyone. 

sounds like Beto's speeches. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,195

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Hell yes my guy. We need someone in here to represent the most centrist of the centrists who have ever been in the center. 

You know what we have? Problems. And you know what we need? Solutions. What kind of solutions? Good ones. We need to do good and not do bad. We need to take a careful look at all the facts and decide. But before we decide we need to look at both sides. And once we do all this we have to find the solution that is most in the middle. For everyone. 

Hank 2020!

I HONK 4 HANK

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