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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

The problem with cutting a $10k check is that it wouldn't solve the underlying problem of wealth inequality.

If we actually wanted to level the playing field by median family wealth, every black family would get a check for $160k. Let's say 13 million black families in America. We're talking a one-time $3T payment.

And I'm not even saying I'm against that, but let's be honest about the terms of the discussion.

Without changing the underlying system of capital that whites already control, however, even that $3T spend would be largely useless.

Maybe so. But what if that 10k was gonna pay for, oh I don’t know, paying to watch rats fuck?

Would that fact change your mind on the subject? 

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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12463

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If reparations means taking action to dismantle systemic racism, such as actually prosecuting cops who kill unarmed black men, or ending the drug war, then fuck yeah.  Go reparations.

If reparations means getting a check for being black, that idea is little more than a dog whistle that will just galvanize racists even further, is completely pointless, and all but guaranteed to backfire politically.

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SKJ

SKJ 1311

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11 hours ago, tantric superman said:

I'm not gross or dismissive about anyone, black or white, who face oppression or economic struggle.  I'm open to any intelligent program that deals with a relationship between a current oppressive condition and the cause of that condition.

You outline a specific program and then I'll let you know if I am gross or dismissive of that specific program. 

I wonder...

What about the problem of ex-cons? Why should they be fucked for life if they 'pay their debt to society?'

 

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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Throw out the convictions.  Make it a crime not to hire ex-cons.  Give the ex-cons whatever job training your want.  Lots of different focused solutions.

At no point should a solution to the high African American prison population lead to reparations for a specific racial group because a) many of that group haven't gone to prison and b) many non-African Americans have been similarly fucked over by the educational and justice system.

 

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F250

F250 28776

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1 hour ago, Lobo said:

45 years in federally elected office. Yeah, he probably has a few favors queued up.  

I have a feeling that Biden will enter the race with the full might of the DNC and will ride roughshod over the other candidates.

Tank+gif+all+yours_25c5a8_4440329.gif

Pete, Beto, and Kamala will be offered a place in the administration while the Bernie Bros are chased off into the wilderness where they will forage on small game and berries for sustenance.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Insurgent candidate looking to subvert an entire political party and burn down the system.

Old white guy selling pie in the sky to disgruntled Americans. 

Nope, nothing in common.

Universal healthcare, living minimum wage, and free public education.

Pie in the sky. Radical leftism.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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I have a feeling that Biden will enter the race with the full might of the DNC and will ride roughshod over the other candidates.
Tank+gif+all+yours_25c5a8_4440329.gif
Pete, Beto, and Kamala will be offered a place in the administration while the Bernie Bros are chased off into the wilderness where they will forage on small game and berries for sustenance.
 


Biden will not be the nominee.

The polling on name recognition and his theoretical candidacy is a mile wide but an inch deep.

And I’d bet real American dollars the powers that be at the DNC don’t want Biden either.

He’s a donkey masquerading as a unicorn and when he actually declares and has the full weight of the spotlight on him the cracks and warts will come to the surface very quickly.
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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10087

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I have a feeling that Biden will enter the race with the full might of the DNC and will ride roughshod over the other candidates.
Tank+gif+all+yours_25c5a8_4440329.gif
Pete, Beto, and Kamala will be offered a place in the administration while the Bernie Bros are chased off into the wilderness where they will forage on small game and berries for sustenance.
 


He’ll also have the backing of guys like Jeb, Rove, Romney, Meghan and more establishment GOP. Maybe not publicly yet but Joe knows they are there.

For them he represents the best of both worlds. Gets rid of Trump and keeps the radical left at bay for at least 4 more years.
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Biden represents the old status quo. 

That’s why the power players and the low info voters love him while everyone else is like, “yeah, no thanks.”

To me, Biden represents the type of politician that sits by and watches something like a Trump movement take over.

No thank you.

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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10087

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Biden represents the old status quo. 
That’s why the power players and the low info voters love him while everyone else is like, “yeah, no thanks.”
To me, Biden represents the type of politician that sits by and watches something like a Trump movement take over.
No thank you.


So if he is the Dem nominee will you become a low information voter?
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Incredulity

Incredulity 11674

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4 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

 


He’ll also have the backing of guys like Jeb, Rove, Romney, Meghan and more establishment GOP. Maybe not publicly yet but Joe knows they are there.

For them he represents the best of both worlds. Gets rid of Trump and keeps the radical left at bay for at least 4 more years.

 

I don’t think any R is going to endorse or openly campaign for Biden.

I also don’t think Biden can get the nomination.  If he does I literally expect a few Bernie Bros. to self immolate in the street like that Vietnamese Buddhist monk.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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Predictions

- None of the existing candidates are going to leave once Joe enters simply because they love Joe or are scared of Joe

- Joe will have a higher floor of support than anyone who isn't Bernie

- Joe will generate zero noticeable enthusiasm among voters under 50

- Joe is going to constantly embarrass himself and slowly shed people who get tired of his running, idiot mouth

- Joe will ignore the grassroots trend and go heavy into big money and he will do very well; I would not be surprised to see him take over the #1 spot money-wise

- Joe's support base will harden and become aggressive as Joe embarrasses himself and is subject to constant criticism for being an idiot creep

- As female candidates fall, female voters will start to get (more) pissed at the male candidates

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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Corruption to make sure powerful, inappropriate-to-women men gain power is not where this party needs to go. This is a party that STILL refuses to deal with the fact that one of their most recognizable faces and stars is a straight-up rapist; the husband of the woman they colluded with to anoint. That woman, of course, spent decades slandering her husband's victims and still does to this day.

And the party is completely silent, inept, and cowardly.

Nope. Rigging the thing to get Biden in is completely unacceptable.

Rig it for Kamala. Rig it for Pete. Rig it for someone worth a shit who represents at least SOMETHING that isn't disgusting and horrible.

If they're going to sell their soul, they should get something out of it.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

If Joe runs, he has a very good shot at winning the nomination.

I think I’d vote for Bernie over Joe Biden.  Obama picked Biden to placate the establishment democrats as a kind of, “you see, I’m not really a radical democrat.”  Biden is everything wrong with the Democratic Party.  He’s a nice guy and gives everyone the warm and fuzzy feeling that everything is going to be okay. 

Everything is not going to be okay.  We have serious shit we need to deal with that go well beyond party politics. Biden has no tangible vision to address these issues and the aura of entitlement that led us straight to an asshole like Donald Trump getting elected.

Sure Biden can get the nomination and he can probably beat Trump but it will all be for very little in the grand scheme of things if he doesn’t cut the political gaming out and confront our challenges head on. 

I might not like Bernie or his specific solutions but at least he has a way forward.  Biden offers nothing except a longing for a past that wasn’t that great anyway.

/rant

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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When it comes to people like Obama, it's only ever one "side" of the centrist/liberal/progressive debate that is portrayed as intransigent and obsessed with "purity".

Look at Klobuchar's answer here. The media response is "oh my god, just look at this pragmatic realism!"

But it's not pragmatic realism, it's ideology. It's a centrist, corporatist ideology masquerading as some kind of plain objectivity. So when centrists and liberals complain about the ideological purity test of the Left, what they're doing is pretending that their value system is completely neutral and "true" in some larger sense.

 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Whoever has the best chance of beating trump needs to be the dem nominee and I’m sorry if you think anything otherwise and unless you actually support trump you are a fool. Trump is very beatable but it will take a candidate that the Obama/Trump voters in the Midwest like and can support. 

The dems also need to take back the senate. Won’t be easy but is doable. What that means is whoever has the best chance of beating trump has the best chance of carrying some senate candidates over the line. 

Colorado should be a sure dem win for the senate. If that doesn’t happen then were fucked. Alabama is likely a loss unless the republicans serve up another loon, which is certainly possible.

There will be coin flip senate races in Arizona, Iowa, Maine, North Carolina, and maybe Georgia and even Texas are possibilities, although unlikely. Those states just also happen to either be presidential swing states or at least competitive. 

Just win baby. 

The rest is just conversation. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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How does this free college for all thing actually work? Is it a fixed amount that follows each student regardless of in-state, out-of state, or private?  Or it just whatever the college you got accepted at charges, federal government pays full freight? 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

How does this free college for all thing actually work? Is it a fixed amount that follows each student regardless of in-state, out-of state, or private?  Or it just whatever the college you got accepted at charges, federal government pays full freight? 

Bernie's College-for-All summary

Tuition-free public colleges and universities. (67% federal/33% state)

It doesn't say anything about in-state vs. out-of-state, which leads me to believe that it doesn't care.

Has nothing to do with private schools.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Just now, bad_teammate said:

Agreed.

How do we know who that is?

Polling X candidate versus trump, especially in swing states, but overall polling tells the tale anyway. 

Obviously the farther along we get into that the more relevant it becomes.

Bernie always polled better versus trump than Hillary did. Which is why I supported him in the primary in 2016.  Bernie would have won against trump. He doesn’t lose Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin to trump. Hillary did and it cost the dems the election, and here we are. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Well, out-of-state would have to care.  If I get 33% from Texas to cover my $10k in tuition, why can't I take that same dollar amount to California?  

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Polling X candidate versus trump, especially in swing states, but overall polling tells the tale anyway. 

Obviously the farther along we get into that the more relevant it becomes.

Bernie always polled better versus trump than Hillary did. Which is why I supported him in the primary in 2016.  Bernie would have won against trump. He doesn’t lose Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin to trump. Hillary did and it cost the dems the election, and here we are. 

 If Bernie was the dem nominee in 2016 the republicans would have gone on an all out jihad against him.  I can’t even begin to describe how freaked out Republicans were that Bernie was going to win the nomination.  It would have been brutal.  There’s no way you can reasonably conclude Bernie would have beaten Trump.  It’s pure speculation.   It’s a nice thing to tell yourself that Bernie would have won but it’s impossible to reasonably conclude.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 If Bernie was the dem nominee in 2016 the republicans would have gone on an all out jihad against him.  I can’t even begin to describe how freaked out Republicans were that Bernie was going to win the nomination.  It would have been brutal.  There’s no way you can reasonably conclude Bernie would have beaten Trump.  It’s pure speculation.   It’s a nice thing to tell yourself that Bernie would have won but it’s incredibly speculative. 

We’ve gone over this before. Name one state Hillary won that Bernie would have lost to trump. Never did get an answer from you on that.

Bernie also wins Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Or do you disagree on those three states as well? 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Just now, JimmyJames said:

Name one state Hillary won that Bernie would have lost to trump. Never did get an answer from you on that.

 Bernie also wins Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Or do you disagree on those three states as well? 

It’s an impossible question to answer because there is no Bernie vs Trump model that includes the a six month GOP/Kremlin campaign against Bernie. 

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