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2020 Democratic Nominee

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Huckleberry
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No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
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3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Do you guys think candidates should name each other like that? Is that the 2020 Democratic primary you'd like to see?

Put aside your desire to own the bros and answer honestly. Should the candidates recycle pundit takes about the other candidates in public?

 

This is the person that is offended that liberals/Democrats are not taking the high road with each other.

 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29225

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Excellent. So, given what you know, what is the comparison you would make?

Do you think there is no difference between Pete-as-mayor and Bernie-as-mayor? Do you think their actions and words as mayors of their respective cities tell us anything about their leadership? Any ideas?

I will re-offer my analysis, such as it is, to spur a conversation.

---

Bernie's concern for the individuals within working class is the primary (and secondary and tertiary) motivator behind his action and words in leadership. This is proven by decades of consistent words and actions.

I do not think the same is true of Pete. The impact of Pete's "1000 houses in 1000 days" program on the piece of South Bend that is poor and largely black was apparently invisible to him until he was confronted by those working class people. Granted, his actions changed based on "healthy pressure" from people he did not seem to consider beforehand. It's a sign that Pete can grow beyond a technocrat, perhaps, but that is contrasted starkly with someone who seemed to need no such intervention.

Perhaps that particular initiative is unindicative of Pete's values and leadership, it's true, but unfortunately we have precious little to go on. Take away his mayoral experience as a consideration, however, and we're left with a fairly empty suit stuffed with white liberal signifiers. Which is clearly enough for many, of course, and not necessarily an unsound electoral strategy.

---

Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

i'm not educated enough about mayor bernie to make a straight comparison of how he served over a town of 30k in vermont in the 1980's, so i'm not comfortable with that.  i will say from what i've read about pete's evolution as a man and as a mayor, i like how his brain works, and i like how he's not afraid to confront the simple fact sometimes that "i don't know what i don't know." 

over the past 8 years, when issues came along, he has approached things in a variety of ways.  coming from big data, he obviously loves the analytic approach.  but i think it's oversimplifying to paint everything with that brush.  everything in his history has shown he also takes the human element into account.  when problems arose, one of his biggest strengths was to act, instead of waiting for the red tape that comes with government at any level, to ensure his citizens got what they needed.  i think that's a valuable lesson, and unfortunately one that many in congress have never ever been forced to learn.

so where does that get you?  well, in acting first, and figuring it out later, it caused some issues in his 1000/1000 program.  but what did he do when confronted with the issues?  he listened, he thought, he evolved, and he took better action.  big-picture wise, after some speed bumps, it was a successful program finished under time and under budget.  the main person involved in the "complaining" is the woman who he's likely endorsing for mayor of south bend to replace him, so i think they got through their differences.

when i look at a candidate, i don't want a list of their stances on 9 key issues.  i want (if possible) to get a behind-the-curtain look at how their brain works.  how they learn from missteps.  how they course correct.  i know it's tougher when looking at older candidates, because this evolution likely happened a long time ago, or in some cases, never happened at all.  but in pete's case, in every instance (according to articles i've read), he's been very proactive in addressing the specific needs of his town on a micro-level (listening to folks at the grocery store) and a macro-level (applying big data to ensure an upward trajectory from a town that was left for dead not long ago).

as a specific example (and i hate to drag beto into this).  but when asked about his charity, beto talked in circles, in a very "politician-y" kind of way.  i'm not editorializing on his giving or lack thereof, just how his brain processed it and moved forward.  in my opinion, i would like my candidate to answer any concern with one of two responses - (1) clarification, in case the facts were incorrect or misunderstood.  (2) admission of wrong, and ideas to correct.  beto did neither, and it was kind of a bummer, even though i personally consider that to be a total non-issue (just an easy example for my mini-essay).

as for pete - he was getting criticized for low minority turnout at his events.  when confronted with this, he could've explained it away or talked in circles, but he didn't.  he said "this is a problem, and we need to address it."  i understand that bernie is the front-runner in terms of minority polling.  as you stated, he's always been champion of the little people, the poor, the downtrodden.  that message sells because it's authentic.  i think when more people learn about pete's message, you'll see those numbers change for pete.  bernie's only had a 4 year head start (and was able to build that message running against hrc and to a lesser extent, donald fucking trump).  

he's still figuring it out, and he's still evolving.  when i'm shopping for a candidate, give me a great mind, and show me how he solves problems.  he has a certain calming presence and is very impressive as a politician, which i'm sure makes him both approachable and intimidating as a mayor.  his "aww shucks" personality helps diffuse his erudition.  i think he's a compelling anomaly, and that interests me.  to tie it back in to the mayor question, he got 80% of the vote in a state that voted for pence as governor and trump as president.  that's no accident.

look, he's young, and he's relatively inexperienced (if that even counts nowadays).  so sure, it would be nice to have more to go on, other than 8 years as mayor of a 100k town.  i've said previously that a 45 year old pete would be ideal, but that's not what we have.  i've also said 4 years of bernie followed by 8 years of pete could be incredibly healing for the country.  but it's impossible to choreograph that.

he hasn't ironed out his policy profile yet, but does anyone honestly think he won't in time for the first debates?  a lot of politicians try to get elected and it seems like they'll just "figure out the rest when they get there."  pete hasn't said this.  but if he did, i would actually believe him.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29225

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38 minutes ago, NIUHuskies said:

 

yep.

there was a poll somewhere upthread where bernie/biden were both polling ~30%.  the takeaway from whomever published it was basically that with 100% name recognition, 70% of the people are still looking elsewhere.  bernie will get a big bump if/when biden goes away.  otherwise, the more people learn who pete is, the higher he'll climb.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13514

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

to tie it back in to the mayor question, he got 80% of the vote in a state that voted for pence as governor and trump as president.  that's no accident.

The last Republican mayor of South Bend was Lloyd Allen, who left office in 1972 (10 years before Pete was born). 

He ran for state office in 2010 and got 38% of the vote.

Slow down.

Quote

he's still figuring it out, and he's still evolving.  when i'm shopping for a candidate, give me a great mind, and show me how he solves problems.  he has a certain calming presence and is very impressive as a politician, which i'm sure makes him both approachable and intimidating as a mayor.  his "aww shucks" personality helps diffuse his erudition. 

He is the most engaging personality in the race. He's VERY good at being a politician. "I'm concerned about you" face. "I'm listening to you" face. "I respect you" voice. "I am thinking sincerely about what you said" voice. "We are both friends right now" voice. He's good at all that. And I don't mean that cynically, like it's a ploy. I'm sure there's truth to a lot of it.

In the 'Person I wish was my son/daughter' primary, he's #1 with a bullet.

Quote

he hasn't ironed out his policy profile yet, but does anyone honestly think he won't in time for the first debates?

It would be cool if a policy vision is what was motivating his run instead of being an inconvenient last-second hassle to take care before the debates.

If the question is "Why are you running?", Pete's answer is still... what?

(The 1000 houses/1000 days thing doesn't really impress or inspire me in any way.)

Quote

  a lot of politicians try to get elected and it seems like they'll just "figure out the rest when they get there."  pete hasn't said this.  but if he did, i would actually believe him.

He hasn't said it, but do you think that's his mindset? An "I'm the right man for the job and once I'm there I will do it right since I'm the right man" kind of thing? Was he just born to be in it?

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29225

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The last Republican mayor of South Bend was Lloyd Allen, who left office in 1972 (10 years before Pete was born). 

He ran for state office in 2010 and got 38% of the vote.

(1) Slow down.

He is the most engaging personality in the race. He's VERY good at being a politician. "I'm concerned about you" face. "I'm listening to you" face. "I respect you" voice. "I am thinking sincerely about what you said" voice. "We are both friends right now" voice. He's good at all that. And I don't mean that cynically, like it's a ploy. I'm sure there's truth to a lot of it.

In the 'Person I wish was my son/daughter' primary, he's #1 with a bullet.

(2) It would be cool if a policy vision is what was motivating his run instead of being an inconvenient last-second hassle to take care before the debates.

(3)If the question is "Why are you running?", Pete's answer is still... what?

(The 1000 houses/1000 days thing doesn't really impress or inspire me in any way.)

(4) He hasn't said it, but do you think that's his mindset? An "I'm the right man for the job and once I'm there I will do it right since I'm the right man" kind of thing? Was he just born to be in it?

here we are again.

1. you've implied many times, in your own not-so-subtle way, that pete has an issue reaching minority voters.  south bend has a pretty diverse set of citizens, and 80% of people voted for him for mayor when he was 33 years old.  i'm not making up numbers or claiming that he walloped some long standing republican hero.  i'm listing facts.

2. nobody (except you) implied that his policy vision is an "inconvenient last-second hassle" and i'm not gonna ignore it and be somehow complicit in that ridiculous narrative.  you don't even believe it.  so far, everything has been planned to perfection by pete and his team.  policy issues will not be some stumbling block he forgot about, although i understand how bernie supporters would hope that the case. (oh if wishing made it so, and such)

3. if you think the answer to the question of "why are you running?" is "what?..." then you really haven't been paying attention.  it's literally the first question an openly gay 37 year old mayor gets asked, and he's answered it repeatedly.  i guess the real question is...why is bernie running?  is it because he lost in 2016?  is it because he thinks the dnc screwed him?  so why did he run in 2016?  he had 40 years in public office, why wait until 2016?  he's had these same feelings and thoughts and crusades and convictions since the 80's, so why did it take so long?  i know why pete waited, but why did it take bernie so long to step up to the main stage?

4. of-course-fucking-not that's not his mindset.  i was making a joke about how empty suits (in lower level elections typically) have that attitude.  like redford in "the candidate", at the end, when he wins, he's like, "ok, now what do we do?"  when it comes to answering those types of questions, i have zero doubt pete has it covered.  you don't have to yell to have conviction.  you don't have to flail your arms and point to be emotional.  and you don't need to be in government for 40 years to be good at it. 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13514

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

1. you've implied many times, in your own not-so-subtle way, that pete has an issue reaching minority voters.  south bend has a pretty diverse set of citizens, and 80% of people voted for him for mayor when he was 33 years old.  i'm not making up numbers or claiming that he walloped some long standing republican hero.  i'm listing facts.

1) "he got 80% of the vote in a state that voted for pence as governor and trump as president"

2) "south bend has a pretty diverse set of citizens, and 80% of people voted for him for mayor"

lol come on, man, those aren't the same thing and you know it

Also, not 80% of people voted for him as mayor. 80% of voters voted for him as mayor. An important distinction.

And in the Democratic primary, it wasn't the same type of story...

Earlier, in that year’s May Democratic primary, Buttigieg had cruised to victory over Henry Davis with 77 percent of the vote. But he beat Davis, who is black, by only 60 votes — 52 percent to 48 percent — in the city’s predominately black 2nd Common Council district.

Quote

nobody (except you) implied that his policy vision is an "inconvenient last-second hassle" and i'm not gonna ignore it and be somehow complicit in that ridiculous narrative. 

You're the one who said "in time for the first debate," making it seem like a deadline, as if having actual policies is some formality one must perfunctorily release.

Pete has been in this race since January 23rd. We are in month #4 of his campaign.

Quote

3. if you think the answer to the question of "why are you running?" is "what?..." then you really haven't been paying attention.  it's literally the first question an openly gay 37 year old mayor gets asked, and he's answered it repeatedly. 

His answer isn't "what?", that's my question.

I've heard his answer. I know he has answers. He's very good at answering questions without really answering them. I am asking what the meaningful content of those answers is. What is he going to actually do? What is special about him that calls him to this moment?

Quote

i guess the real question is...why is bernie running? is it because he lost in 2016?  is it because he thinks the dnc screwed him?  so why did he run in 2016?  he had 40 years in public office, why wait until 2016?  he's had these same feelings and thoughts and crusades and convictions since the 80's, so why did it take so long?  i know why pete waited, but why did it take bernie so long to step up to the main stage?

oh-honey-gif-13.gif

If you're genuinely curious, which you aren't, I invite you to watch Bernie's 2015 announcement.

Be serious here.

Bernie's motivations were/are a genuine desire to enact specific changes to address specific injustices. He specifically references legislation he's filed in his announcement speech.

His candidacy in 2016 was about the issues he cared about. He didn't jump in because he thought he could win; he jumped in because he wanted to push the party to make the changes he felt were necessary (also, he ran because Elizabeth Warren wouldn't).

Why run again? To continue the fight over those specific issues.

Quote

when it comes to answering those types of questions, i have zero doubt pete has it covered. 

I'm glad you're confident.

 

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mchookem

mchookem 16765

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Good God this is a shitshow and I love it

 

why shitshow? it's a wide variety of diverse candidates with different backgrounds and different everything else. i think it's great... whoever makes it to the end is going to be well-tested and have already run one hell of a gauntlet. 

and i'll vote for ANY of them over the shitshow that currently occupies the office. hopefully the majority of my fellow citizens feel the same.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Posted

Mayor Pete is making a major move. Interesting at the least.

Despite all the baggin on him Biden will be a major force in the south. For better or worse, the African American vote has a significant impact on who wins the dem primary, even after ultra white Iowa and New Hampshire votes are done.

Right now the favorite for that vote has to be Biden and Kamala. I suspect that’s why they are still the odds on favorite, although I haven’t looked in a while to confirm that. 

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mchookem

mchookem 16765

Posted
Posted
Just now, JimmyJames said:

Mayor Pete is making a major move. Interesting at the least.

Despite all the baggin on him Biden will be a major force in the south. For better or worse, the African American vote has a significant impact on who wins the dem primary, even after ultra white Iowa and New Hampshire votes are done.

Right now the favorite for that vote has to be Biden and Kamala. I suspect that’s why they are still the odds on favorite, although I haven’t looked in a while to confirm that. 

yes...my husband's extended family (AA) are spread around the midwest, northeast, and south. ..fb tells me they love Harris, Biden...and Beto believe it or not. those seem to be their frontrunners. (sample size of about 14 lol)

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

Posted
Posted
yes...my husband's extended family (AA) are spread around the midwest, northeast, and south. ..fb tells me they love Harris, Biden...and Beto believe it or not. those seem to be their frontrunners. (sample size of about 14 lol)


Yeah on Twitter there’s very noticeable young AA support for Harris and Beto. I think his stance on the NFL players kneeling stuck with a lot of them.

He also announced today he hired Lauren Harper, an AA woman, to run his campaign in South Carolina.

Harper is a former policy and communications adviser to Columbia Mayor Steve Benjamin, the city’s first black chief executive and current president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors.

The CEO of her own public affairs firm and a former aide to S.C. Sen. Mia McLeod, D-Richland, Harper is also African American, an advantage for the O’Rourke campaign in a state where black women.
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13514

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

And speaking of Beto appealing to black voters....
 

People have been sleeping on Beto because his polls have been stagnant. I think it's because he's been saying "no" to basically every interview. He's been invisible in the media doing his DIY door-to-door thing, but I still believe his ceiling is SUPER high once he gets back on the media train.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13514

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

tenor.gif?itemid=5095237

Warren has been the best tonight.

While this is true, I have a counter-point.

(That was my "favorite candidate" ranking, not town hall performance ranking. Pete hasn't even gone yet. I can't wait for the Peep-soft questions the Harvard crowd is going to throw at him.)

Edited by bad_teammate
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Js1

Js1 87179

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Posted

Seriously, the fuck was every person there some awkward Harvard student? 

I think the last one asking Warren a question was about to cream his jeans just speaking to her.  A young bad_teammate if I ever saw one. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13514

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Seriously, the fuck was every person there some awkward Harvard student? 

I think the last one asking Warren a question was about to cream his jeans just speaking to her.  A young bad_teammate if I ever saw one. 

"Senator Warren, I often challenge people who disrespect you to fights in the parking lots of liquor stores. Do you support me in this pursuit? If not, how can I fight for your honor in a way that pleases you?"

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29225

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Seriously, the fuck was every person there some awkward Harvard student? 

I think the last one asking Warren a question was about to cream his jeans just speaking to her.  A young bad_teammate if I ever saw one. 

you could instantly tell which of the kids was from harvard and which was from that random manchester college or "other".  everyone who looked halfway normal and socially functioning was from someplace else.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Honestly, the centristy white-guy arguments seem to be:

"Everything pre-November 2016 was just fine and dandy.  Let's just roll back the shit Trump did and then keep business moving." 

We had a public option pre-2016?

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21551

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Honestly, the centristy white-guy arguments seem to be:

"Everything pre-November 2016 was just fine and dandy.  Let's just roll back the shit Trump did and then keep business moving." 

All this "centristy white-guy" wants is Trump out of office and, preferably, in jail.  Outside of that, everything else is "whatever".   

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