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2020 Democratic Nominee

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Js1

Js1 85619

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4 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I really think she will be interested in running on the alternative policy that is twice as popular with the general electorate once she is out of the primary and in the general election.   

Any of them probably would pivot towards "what is popular", except Bernie.  

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21061

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Look, the Berners went after Warren on healthcare because she was passing him up in the polls and they thought it was a vulnerability because she doesn’t have a healthcare plan.  This is SOP for the Bernie bros.  She dumped cold water on that shit in the debate.

As Warren continues to climb I expect this line of attack to continue from the Berners even though Warren is actually doing Bernie a huge favor by staying out of the healthcare debate at letting him lead the conversation.  

Do you really think Warren is incapable of leadership on an issue as popular as universal healthcare?  Do you really think she’s interested in the donations from the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies?  Child please. 

 

I'm not a Berner. 

If you think saying "I'm with Bernie on M4A" at the 1st debate is good enough, you're wrong.  She's been all over the place with healthcare. 

She's not doing Bernie a favor in regards to M4A. She's smartly taking cover behind Bernie and campaigning as the "electable" progressive alternative.  She's letting him take the bullets. 

Liz is great. Right now I think she's the only candidate that has a clear path towards the nomination. But she's pandering on M4A, IMO.  

 

Edited by Hank Kingsley
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zork

zork 629

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On 7/22/2019 at 1:35 PM, tantric superman said:

                source.gif

Quote

Sen. Cory Booker says he may 'feel like punching' Trump but he doesn't want to sink to his level

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/23/cory-booker-feel-like-punching-trump-but-those-his-tactics/1803366001/

Sure thing Senator Booker.  PotUS is probably glad the SotUA is in the HoR and not in the Senate.(especially if he needs to use the can)

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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35 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I'm not a Berner. 

If you think saying "I'm with Bernie on M4A" at the 1st debate is good enough, you're wrong.  She's been all over the place with healthcare. 

She's not doing Bernie a favor in regards to M4A. She's smartly taking cover behind Bernie and campaigning as the "electable" progressive alternative.  She's letting him take the bullets. 

Liz is great. Right now I think she's the only candidate that has a clear path towards the nomination. But she's pandering on M4A, IMO.  

 

Never said you were a berner, I was just telling you where I’ve seen this line of specious attack come from before.  

Singling out Warren on healthcare is horse shit.  Every candidate is vulnerable on healthcare.  It’s one of those topics where there are only three or four lanes (fix ACA, pub option, MFA).  

The thing that matters is the intended destination of your future administration and how quickly can you get there. 

Yes, she is pandering on MFA.  EVERY candidate should be pandering on MFA.   Anyone not swinging for the fences on healthcare right now is a mealy-mouthed bitch.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13226

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Liz was/is trying to act like she was more progressive than her peers with that bill. She says her proposal to allow people with student loan debt to refinance at a lower interest rate was "a pretty far out position", which it wasn't at all. It was a very popular position in 2013 (even with the center-right of the party).

And this is, of course, in the context of her student debt plan which is inexplicably capped at $50k and only for those making under $100k. It's good, but... why not aim for the real target?

56 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Look, the Berners went after Warren on healthcare because she was passing him up in the polls and they thought it was a vulnerability because she doesn’t have a healthcare plan.

Healthcare is the #1 issue for voters. A major candidate staying silent on the #1 issue is a pretty big deal.

Your 4D chess theorizing about Liz being so gracious as to let Bernie take the lead on it aside, I think Hank is perfectly reasonable to see Warren as not really on the single-payer train. She's occasionally said a few things, but it's bizarrely little for the #1 issue voters care about.

Is it a hill she will die on or will she embrace Medicare For All Who Want It when the corporate androids come talk to her with flowcharts and TED talk speak?

I am 100% sure Bernie will die on that hill. Am I 100% sure Liz will? Nope.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Healthcare is the #1 issue for voters. 

And if she pulled a 180 right now and took the lead on it you would accuse her of pandering for this very reason. 

Liz doesn’t focus on healthcare because she knows that shit isn’t getting fixed properly until you detach the wealth from the power in the legislative process.  

That’s her #1 issue, anti-corruption.  We can’t adequately address healthcare, climate change, gun violence, or immigration until you crackdown on the corrupt influences (foreign and domestic) compromising our law makers.  This is the main reason I prefer Warren over Bernie or anyone else.  She sees the big picture.  

Unfortunately, anti-corruption isn’t high on the priority list of voters because most of them are ignorant of how bad it is.  They think Washington is broken because of ideology.  No, it’s broken because it’s flooded with dirty money with the sole purpose of keeping it broken for everyone except the 0.01%

Warren’s entire campaign strategy is based around anti-corruption and moving money from the top to the bottom of the economy.  

Bernie can keep pushing MFA, but it will always be a pipe dream until you get a massive reform administration first. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

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22 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Is it a hill she will die on or will she embrace Medicare For All Who Want It when the corporate androids come talk to her with flowcharts and TED talk speak?

I am 100% sure Bernie will die on that hill. Am I 100% sure Liz will? Nope.

Agree completely.   And that's why I greatly prefer Liz.  I don't want to die on hills. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105460

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40 minutes ago, zork said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/23/cory-booker-feel-like-punching-trump-but-those-his-tactics/1803366001/

Sure thing Senator Booker.  PotUS is probably glad the SotUA is in the HoR and not in the Senate.(especially if he needs to use the can)

You know what I love about Trumpkins like Zork?

1 allegation from a partisan news source, and they have convicted and completely dismissed, say, Booker.

But.....17 women accusing Trump of rape, many with independent corroboration of their allegations at the time they made them, and Trump himself ADMITTING ON TAPE that he grabs women by the pussy.....well, that's all fake news, my friend.

 

That's a glimpse into the mind of a Trumpkin.  Look at it -- you don't get to look away in disgust or pity -- look at it.  That's what they think like.  That's what they are.  That's what we're dealing with.  An irrational idiocy of unprecedented proportions.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

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4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You know what I love about Trumpkins like Zork?

1 allegation from a partisan news source, and they have convicted and completely dismissed, say, Booker.

But.....17 women accusing Trump of rape, many with independent corroboration of their allegations at the time they made them, and Trump himself ADMITTING ON TAPE that he grabs women by the pussy.....well, that's all fake news, my friend.

 

That's a glimpse into the mind of a Trumpkin.  Look at it -- you don't get to look away in disgust or pity -- look at it.  That's what they think like.  That's what they are.  That's what we're dealing with.  An irrational idiocy of unprecedented proportions.

During the Obama years, Zork would closely study pictures of Barack Obama looking for evidence of an erection in his pants.   The great scandal being that Obama was supposedly waving around boners near women to sexually harass them.  I wish I was kidding. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105460

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1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

During the Obama years, Zork would closely study pictures of Barack Obama looking for evidence of an erection in his pants.   The great scandal being that Obama was supposedly waving around boners near women to sexually harass them.  I wish I was kidding. 

And I wish that I was endowed enough to have a regularly visible boner through my pants.

We all have wishes, man.

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zork

zork 629

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15 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

During the Obama years, Zork would closely study pictures of Barack Obama looking for evidence of an erection in his pants.   The great scandal being that Obama was supposedly waving around boners near women to sexually harass them.  I wish I was kidding. 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/presidential-erection/

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13226

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53 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

And if she pulled a 180 right now and took the lead on it you would accuse her of pandering for this very reason. 

I have no idea what "took the lead" means here, it doesn't mean anything. It's just horse race language.

If Liz started pimping M4A I'd be extremely excited. I gave her money when she advocated M4A in the debate.

If she went LEFT of M4A (to fully nationalized medicine, for instance), I'd max out my donations immediately and say "Your move, old man" to Bernie. I want these two pushing each other left. We NEED these two pushing each other left.

56 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Warren’s entire campaign strategy is based around anti-corruption and moving money from the top to the bottom of the economy.  

Bernie has been on both of those trains since Liz was an anti-regulation Republican. She's legit, but your punditry is dogshit.

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NowThis

NowThis 931

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my hunch is Warren will be seen as the most reasonable choice, mature but not too old, feisty but not batshit angry like Harris - and Liz will win the nomination. I'll take it, she's cool with me. I also don't see her Dna test as a downfall, but a plus, showing guts to take it. Imagine if there was nothing Native Am in there, big risk and she passed.   She's not going to pick Bernie as VP, so i wouldn't mind Booker. The dude is strong, listen to his words, he's down to earth. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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43 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I have no idea what "took the lead" means here, it doesn't mean anything. It's just horse race language.

If Liz started pimping M4A I'd be extremely excited. I gave her money when she advocated M4A in the debate.

If she went LEFT of M4A (to fully nationalized medicine, for instance), I'd max out my donations immediately and say "Your move, old man" to Bernie. I want these two pushing each other left. We NEED these two pushing each other left.

Bernie has been on both of those trains since Liz was an anti-regulation Republican. She's legit, but your punditry is dogshit.

We obviously have different platform priorities and that’s okay.  Healthcare is among the most important issues to voters, as it should be.  Bernie has the best articulated healthcare solution but I believe Warren articulates the best way to get there.  She does it by focusing on the corruption currently obstructing any good faith effort at an equitable solution to several of our problems, including healthcare. 

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Js1

Js1 85619

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28 minutes ago, NowThis said:

my hunch is Warren will be seen as the most reasonable choice, mature but not too old, feisty but not batshit angry like Harris - and Liz will win the nomination. I'll take it, she's cool with me. I also don't see her Dna test as a downfall, but a plus, showing guts to take it. Imagine if there was nothing Native Am in there, big risk and she passed.   She's not going to pick Bernie as VP, so i wouldn't mind Booker. The dude is strong, listen to his words, he's down to earth. 

Harris isn’t angry but your concern trolling about angry black women is noted. 

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Pancho

Pancho 45081

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2 hours ago, zork said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/23/cory-booker-feel-like-punching-trump-but-those-his-tactics/1803366001/

Sure thing Senator Booker.  PotUS is probably glad the SotUA is in the HoR and not in the Senate.(especially if he needs to use the can)

you support the party and president of locking children in cages, separating children from their parents (in some cases it will probably be permanent), voter suppression, election intereference by foreign governments, and anti-LGBTQ representatives and judges and yet THIS is what you're posting about today?  From a radical right wing website?

fuck outta here

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13226

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37 minutes ago, NowThis said:

my hunch is Warren will be seen as the most reasonable choice, mature but not too old, feisty but not batshit angry like Harris - and Liz will win the nomination. I'll take it, she's cool with me. I also don't see her Dna test as a downfall, but a plus, showing guts to take it. Imagine if there was nothing Native Am in there, big risk and she passed.   She's not going to pick Bernie as VP, so i wouldn't mind Booker. The dude is strong, listen to his words, he's down to earth. 

Yep. Warren is the compromise candidate between the Bernie side and the shitlibs.

The DNA test/NA thing isn't over. That will be a thing for the election and her entire tenure.

I also have zero desire for VP Sanders. He needs to either be in the Oval Office or raising hell in Congress. VP is a useless position of zero power, influence, or importance. Booker is a good choice for VP.

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Js1

Js1 85619

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Posted
1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

The problem with Harris isn't that she's angry, it's that she's a craven political machine with no firm values who will betray anyone and everyone to secure her power and popularity.

Sure. But the “angry black woman” trope is tired and lazy. 

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NowThis

NowThis 931

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5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The problem with Harris isn't that she's angry, it's that she's a craven political machine with no firm values who will betray anyone and everyone to secure her power and popularity.

her act is one of indignation at The Man and this plays well in Oakland which has a rich history of black militancy. Hell their school board even considered teaching Ebonics as a language.

Harris also has a poor technical grasp of issues. No depth. Warren would destroy her on a typical school exam. 

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zork

zork 629

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I wonder why right wing media targeting Cory Booker?  Why is he special?

He had a quote about kicking Trump's ass or something on  that right wing media platform called USA Today, today.   It has an angry picture of Booker with that tease line.

from 8 hours ago:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS773US773&ei=mLk3XaG0FdaGtQazz5zwBQ&q=booker+angry+threat+trump+usa+today+7-23-2019&oq=booker+angry+threat+trump+usa+today+7-23-2019&gs_l=psy-ab.12...43190.51613..53059...0.0..0.145.1185.0j10......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.Ag5vPKWkgVM&ved=0ahUKEwih4NPduMzjAhVWQ80KHbMnB14Q4dUDCAo

Edited by zork
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Larry T. Spider

Larry T. Spider 1747

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Posted (edited)

M4A that want it seems like a terrible idea. It will be treated like another welfare program for the unemployed, poor, undocumented, etc. The per person costs will be astronomical and it will be first in line for the chopping block for republicans. It also loses the overhead reduction benefits from having everyone on the same plan. 

If we are worried about the middle class being scared off, the best bet is selling them on supplemental insurance. “This plan will cover all of your basic needs, including if something really bad happens. But, if you’re worried about _______, you can always purchase supplemental insurance. Since all of your medical necessities are already covered, these plans will be very affordable.”

Edited by Larry T. Spider
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pepper brooks

pepper brooks 580

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Posted
14 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You know what I love about Trumpkins like Zork?

1 allegation from a partisan news source, and they have convicted and completely dismissed, say, Booker.

But.....17 women accusing Trump of rape, many with independent corroboration of their allegations at the time they made them, and Trump himself ADMITTING ON TAPE that he grabs women by the pussy.....well, that's all fake news, my friend.

 

That's a glimpse into the mind of a Trumpkin.  Look at it -- you don't get to look away in disgust or pity -- look at it.  That's what they think like.  That's what they are.  That's what we're dealing with.  An irrational idiocy of unprecedented proportions.

Maybe trump is the repub bill Clinton?   It’s all a media conspiracy?  They’re all repulsive.  

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pepper brooks

pepper brooks 580

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Posted
14 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You know what I love about Trumpkins like Zork?

1 allegation from a partisan news source, and they have convicted and completely dismissed, say, Booker.

But.....17 women accusing Trump of rape, many with independent corroboration of their allegations at the time they made them, and Trump himself ADMITTING ON TAPE that he grabs women by the pussy.....well, that's all fake news, my friend.

 

That's a glimpse into the mind of a Trumpkin.  Look at it -- you don't get to look away in disgust or pity -- look at it.  That's what they think like.  That's what they are.  That's what we're dealing with.  An irrational idiocy of unprecedented proportions.

Maybe trump is the repub bill Clinton?   It’s all a media conspiracy?  They’re all repulsive.  

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

 

I also have zero desire for VP Sanders. He needs to either be in the Oval Office or raising hell in Congress. VP is a useless position of zero power, influence, or importance. Booker is a good choice for VP.

It's like you've never seen the motion picture "VICE (2019)" starring Christian Bale as a VP who rewrites the playbook for the position and with a stunning performance by Steve Carrell as a Donald "Rummy" Rumsfield.

Edited by Rougarou
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13226

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

More housing doesn’t drive working people out, not enough housing does.

Do you think the housing shortages people face is because there is literally not enough existing housing?

Quote

Bernie’s basically saying “we’re gonna tell the farmers you can’t just come in here and grow corn and make working people hungry.”

What you just said is very silly, of course, but the question was about gentrification, which is what Bernie answered.

But a knock-on reality of his answer is that housing shortages do not necessarily result from a lack of housing availability.

Warren's plan, unfortunately, involves (among some really good things) a giveaway of billions of taxpayer dollars to private developers and landlords for the pinky-swear promise that they will use that money to build affordable housing.

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Js1

Js1 85619

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Joe better be careful. His whole “uncle Joe” persona is going to be erased if he comes out guns blazing against Harris and Booker. But hey, Joe showing up prepared would be a first and a nice surprise  

Tulsi says Harris isn’t qualified because she’s never served - no such criticism to any of the other candidates in the top 5 who haven’t served. Trying really hard to be relevant. Harris’ team hasn’t even acknowledged her existence, it’s hilarious. Dog with a bone 

Edited by Js1
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horncyclist

horncyclist 1391

Posted
Posted

Rcp average.

It's interesting to look at the trend lines. Bernie's kind of had a steady decline after an initial dip. Kamala with the big jump after first debate. Liz Warren with steady growth and less volatility. That probably says something about the support she's building.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone makes a Kamala like jump after next debate. Will be avoid sign of how much the race is settling in.b84d1fb45b454a85bd38453202240e01.jpg

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