2020 Democratic Nominee

[BradInATX 9208]

8 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

 

You keep running with the 13% nonsense. I assume that is from the Hill Harris poll.  That is for single payer that bans private or supplemental insurance.  Nobody is even proposing that and I don't think it even exists anywhere else in the world that matters. 

Medicare for all polls between 56% and 70%, allows for supplemental private insurance, and is pretty much the only version of "single payer" that is being proposed.  Even Bernie's version polls at 45% in the very poll you cite. 

So, my taking a poll that very clearly outlines the options (full single payer with no private, as-is, no government involvement, single payer with opt-out, single payer with private option) is "nonsense"

But polls that show middling support for "M4A" where the polls themselves acknowledge that the respondents aren't clearly informed of the issues, you like those? You're okay with polls that actually acknowledge the flaws in their own methodologies?

One of the most disingenuous, Trump-esque talking points that the socialist 12% parrot is that "the majority of the country supports single-payer". That's absolute nonsense and everyone knows it. We've all seen the data that shows that support goes down as soon as you add facts to the questions (you will lose private insurance options, etc.). Just because the socialist 12% refuses to acknowledge it doesn't make it any less true. You are in the minority. Keep acting astonished that Biden has a commanding lead in the primary still. It's almost like 12% is not a majority or something.

Edited September 15, 2019 by BradInATX

[Bozo_Casanova 26862]

M4A is a great brand that doesn’t mean anything specific, which is a great thing for an objective all factions share but can’t agree how to accomplish.

I’m 100% behind M4A, which is some combination of several hypothetically possible things that I’m mostly OK with and not the absurd things that some fringy prog-left people and DSA types think will happen.

[DixonHur 11961]

45 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

LMAO, Corn Pop

 

Gotta be careful with those Van B Boys

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Polls said the Wall and Muslim ban were highly unpopular. Crazy how the guy that ran on them won.

[DixonHur 11961]

23 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

So, my taking a poll that very clearly outlines the options (full single payer with no private, as-is, no government involvement, single payer with opt-out, single payer with private option) is "nonsense"

Do you have a link to the poll?  Be curious to see it

Here's one I found from Kaiser Family Foundation

Edited September 15, 2019 by DixonHur

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Do you have a link to the poll?  Be curious to see it

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/428958-poll-voters-want-the-government-to-provide-healthcare-for

[David Dennison 19554]

25 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

So, my taking a poll that very clearly outlines the options (full single payer with no private, as-is, no government involvement, single payer with opt-out, single payer with private option) is "nonsense"

But polls that show middling support for "M4A" where the polls themselves acknowledge that the respondents aren't clearly informed of the issues, you like those? You're okay with polls that actually acknowledge the flaws in their own methodologies?

One of the most disingenuous, Trump-esque talking points that the socialist 12% parrot is that "the majority of the country supports single-payer". That's absolute nonsense and everyone knows it. We've all seen the data that shows that support goes down as soon as you add facts to the questions (you will lose private insurance options, etc.). Just because the socialist 12% refuses to acknowledge it doesn't make it any less true. You are in the minority. Keep acting astonished that Biden has a commanding lead in the primary still. It's almost like 12% is not a majority or something.

Which is why you won't lose private insurance options like the ones associated with Medicare.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Which is why you won't lose private insurance options like the ones associated with Medicare.

Bernie's plan allows you to keep your current private insurance?

Again, that's news to me and to Bernie.

[DixonHur 11961]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/428958-poll-voters-want-the-government-to-provide-healthcare-for

Thanks, so it looks like 71% want some sort of universal healthcare, and the argument is around the details.

[Bozo_Casanova 26862]

LMAO, Corn Pop
 

I love that story- it reminds me of old timers in East Dallas talking about getting cross with the Lakewood Rats at Sammie’s Terrace. Corn Pop knew he couldn’t wear pomade into the pool, he just didn’t want some lifeguard calling him Esther Williams.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

40 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Bernie's version allows for a private option? That's news to me. And to Bernie.

It allows for private supplemental insurance, and 32% of the people polled in your cherry picked poll favor that.  Add that to your favorite 13% who want private insurance completely eliminated, and there's your 45% that prefer Bernie's plan to any other plan available.  Again, take your Fox News obfuscation elsewhere.

Liars like you suck worse than open Trump voters. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by FondrenRoad

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, DixonHur said:

Thanks, so it looks like 71% want some sort of universal healthcare, and the argument is around the details.

Correct. But as you probably know, there are several people here who continue to make the disingenuous argument that those same 71% also want to ban private insurance. We all know that the majority of the country is not in favor of that. It's the intentional conflation of two completely different things that outs the 12%ers as full of crap.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

It allows for private supplemental insurance, and 32% of the people polled in your cherry picked poll favor that.  Again, take your Fox News obfuscation elsewhere.

Liars like you suck worse than open Trump voters. 

What's 32 + 12?

(if you click the little Windows button in the bottom left of your screen you can access a calculator app)

Edited September 15, 2019 by BradInATX

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

What's 32 + 12?

What does 12 have to do anything?  Your magic number is 13.  Are you point shaving now?

[Brisketexan 106928]

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/428958-poll-voters-want-the-government-to-provide-healthcare-for

So....71% support AT LEAST a public option (a govt plan accessible to all)....that’s certainly “left” of our current admin and congressional leadership. But go ahead and keep selling the Dems as being the ones who are “out of touch.”

Again, 29% support the GOP vision, and 71% support public option or better....but it’s the Dems who are the fringe.

By all means, continue with your dissertation.

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So....71% support AT LEAST a public option (a govt plan accessible to all)....that’s certainly “left” of our current admin and congressional leadership. But go ahead and keep selling the Dems as being the ones who are “out of touch.”

Again, 29% support the GOP vision, and 71% support public option or better....but it’s the Dems who are the fringe.

By all means, continue with your dissertation.

Oh, I never said the Democrats are out of touch. I certainly don't associate the 12% fringe extreme left with the party as a whole. There's a reason only one candidate (the most extreme fringe candidate) has explicitly stated the desire to ban private insurance. The Democrats know the path to victory isn't through the very online and loud socialist 12%.

Edited September 15, 2019 by BradInATX

[Brisketexan 106928]

Oh, I never said the Democrats are out of touch. I certainly don't associate the 12% fringe extreme left with the party as a whole. There's a reason only one candidate (the most extreme fringe candidate) has explicitly stated the desire to ban private insurance. The Democrats know the path to victory isn't through the very online and loud socialist 12%.

But the GOP knew the path to victory WAS through the racist dog whistles of the WALL and such. A quite interesting dichotomy.

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

But the GOP knew the path to victory WAS through the racist dog whistles of the WALL and such. A quite interesting dichotomy.

Well, yeah.

[Hank Scorpio 17924]

Brad in here just dominating the libs. This is why the Democrats can't win, because of common sense, reasonable Republicans like Brad who just know what the American people want. All these libs in their ivory towers just don't get it. Americans don't want universal healthcare, they want insanely complicated insurance from a myriad of providers that ultimately fuck them. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

Brad in here just dominating the libs. This is why the Democrats can't win, because of common sense, reasonable Republicans like Brad who just know what the American people want. All these libs in their ivory towers just don't get it. Americans don't want universal healthcare, they want insanely complicated insurance from a myriad of providers that ultimately fuck them. 

"The Bernie Bros are in trouble! Here I come!"

[FondrenRoad 4378]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Oh, I never said the Democrats are out of touch. I certainly don't associate the 12% fringe extreme left with the party as a whole. There's a reason only one candidate (the most extreme fringe candidate) has explicitly stated the desire to ban private insurance.

You should probably watch or read the full text of this supposed explicit statement from Bernie instead of watching whatever Fox News spliced together.  You do know that Bernie actually introduced a complete bill for his M4A version 2 years ago, right?  You know the difference between duplicative and supplemental coverage?  Here's an excerpt for you:

"(b) Construction.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed as prohibiting the sale of health insurance coverage for any additional benefits not covered by this Act, including additional benefits that an employer may provide to employees or their dependents, or to former employees or their dependents."

This allows for the very definition of supplemental private insurance.  This plan polls at 45% in your cherry picked poll.  I'm sure if this now 2 year old bill ever comes up for a vote, we'll also hear lies about nobody having time to read it, much like the ACA.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

You should probably watch or read the full text of this supposed explicit statement from Bernie instead of watching whatever Fox News spliced together.  You do know that Bernie actually introduced a complete bill for his M4A version 2 years ago, right?  You know the difference between duplicative and supplemental coverage?  Here's an excerpt for you:

"(b) Construction.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed as prohibiting the sale of health insurance coverage for any additional benefits not covered by this Act, including additional benefits that an employer may provide to employees or their dependents, or to former employees or their dependents."

This allows for the very definition of supplemental private insurance.  This plan polls at 45% in your cherry picked poll.  I'm sure if this now 2 year old bill ever comes up for a vote, we'll also hear lies about nobody having time to read it, much like the ACA.

Is 45% a majority? Did the definition of "majority" change or something?

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by BradInATX

[Hank Scorpio 17924]

How long until Brad turns completely into a corncob?

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

How long until Brad turns completely into a corncob?

This is well beneath the mediocre standard of snark you've set for yourself over your long history of posting absolutely nothing. More effort, son.

Edited September 15, 2019 by BradInATX

[David Dennison 19554]

32 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Bernie's plan allows you to keep your current private insurance?

Again, that's news to me and to Bernie.

Does Bernie's plan do away with Medicare Part C?

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Does Bernie's plan do away with Medicare Part C?

Nope. That gets you to about 44% support. 

So we can all just admit that saying things like "the majority of people support Bernie's plan" or that it has "broad support" is disingenuous? Great.  Good talk. Have a good one.

Edited September 15, 2019 by BradInATX

[David Dennison 19554]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Nope. That gets you to about 44% support. 

So we can all just admit that saying things like "the majority of people support Bernie's plan" or that it has "broad support" is disingenuous? Great.  Good talk. Have a good one.

Close enough.

We're going to get Medicare for All, including Medicare Advantage.

It's not if but when.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The healthcare debate in the democratic primary isn’t really about specific plans among the candidates. It’s about philosophical differences of opinion regarding how we view our healthcare system.  Whether you support a universal healthcare system or not is a good litmus test of where your values and priorities are.  

You don’t have to promise MFA or universal coverage to get elected.  But you should at least be able to say it’s a good idea and worth fighting for.  JMO

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Close enough.

We're going to get Medicare for All, including Medicare Advantage.

It's not if but when.

I don't necessarily believe otherwise. But it's not going to happen soon.

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The healthcare debate in the democratic primary isn’t really about specific plans among the candidates. It’s about philosophical differences of opinion regarding how we view our healthcare system.  Whether you support a universal healthcare system or not is a good litmus test of where your values and priorities are.  

You don’t have to promise MFA or universal coverage to get elected.  But you should at least be able to say it’s a good idea and worth fighting for.  JMO

Agreed. Good post.

[bad_teammate 13552]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

"But it's not fair!!"

LOL what a crybaby. Go home, kid. You've lost.

Support for Obamacare went from -20 to +7 in a few years. You are selectively looking at polls to see what you want to see (you want to believe that Americans are all Republicans like you).

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Bye Pete

 

Profile in Courage Essay about Bernie Sanders by Pete Buttigieg

Cynical candidates have developed an ability to outgrow their convictions in order to win power. Cynical citizens have given up on the election process, going to the polls at one of the lowest rates in the democratic world. Such an atmosphere inevitably distances our society from its leadership and is thus a fundamental threat to the principles of democracy. It also calls into question what motivates a run for office – in many cases, apparently, only the desire to occupy it. Fortunately for the political process, there remain a number of committed individuals who are steadfast enough in their beliefs to run for office to benefit their fellow Americans. Such people are willing to eschew political and personal comfort and convenience because they believe they can make a difference. One outstanding and inspiring example of such integrity is the country’s only Independent Congressman, Vermont’s Bernie Sanders.

lol

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Is 45% a majority? Did the definition of "majority" change or something?

 

Again with the Fox News obfuscation, but I'm glad I finally got you off your nonsensical 13% claim.  There are a few things at play here. 

1) Bernie's plan isn't the only M4A plan.  The name is a catch all.  Others allow for some duplicative private insurance coverage. Those plans are including in other polls regarding M4A. 

2) Let's go back to your poll, shall we?

The next 26% desire a public option but would prefer that private duplicative options remain available.  First, this cohort also had the option to choose to keep the current healthcare system intact.  They didn't choose that, so they want change.  So, of that 26%, we don't need very many to answer the following question in favor of single payer. "If you had to choose between the current system and a single payer system that didn't allow for duplicative private insurance, which would you choose?"

3) The margin of error for your poll is 3.1.  If we take your poll as gospel, we could easily be approaching your feared majority.  Its why you are here in the first place.  You want to negatively influence sentiment toward a public option, whether single payer or not. First, you try to throw all supporters of public options into the "13%" by intentionally misinterpreting it.  Now, its the evil left doesn't quite have a simple majority yet.  Had you been polled in your favored poll, I bet you'd be in the 15% that want the government completely out of healthcare.  You're the fringe. 

 You're still just a very dishonest person.  It would be more honest and helpful if you just stated your goals at the outset. 

[David Dennison 19554]

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I don't necessarily believe otherwise. But it's not going to happen soon.

That might depend on when the next financial collapse happens.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Again with the Fox News obfuscation, but I'm glad I finally got you off your nonsensical 13% claim.  There are a few things at play here. 

1) Bernie's plan isn't the only M4A plan.  The name is a catch all.  Others allow for some duplicative private insurance coverage. Those plans are including in other polls regarding M4A. 

2) Let's go back to your poll, shall we?

The next 26% desire a public option but would prefer that private duplicative options remain available.  First, this cohort also had the option to choose to keep the current healthcare system intact.  They didn't choose that, so they want change.  So, of that 26%, we don't need very many to answer the following question in favor of single payer. "If you had to choose between the current system and a single payer system that didn't allow for duplicative private insurance, which would you choose?"

3) The margin of error for your poll is 3.1.  If we take your poll as gospel, we could easily be approaching your feared majority.  Its why you are here in the first place.  You want to negatively influence sentiment toward a public option, whether single payer or not. First, you try to throw all supporters of public options into the "13%" by intentionally misinterpreting it.  Now, its the evil left doesn't quite have a simple majority yet.  Had you been polled in your favored poll, I bet you'd be in the 15% that want the government completely out of healthcare.  You're the fringe. 

 You're still just a very dishonest person.  It would be more honest and helpful if you just stated your goals at the outset. 

What is 44% + 3.1%?

Numbers don't lie. I'm sorry that the hard data doesn't jive with your emotions, but that doesn't make me a dishonest person. I'm simply stating facts.

Edited September 15, 2019 by BradInATX

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

What is 44% + 3.1%?

 

First, you keep mixing up your two Fox News talking points.  12% is the percentage of Americans that are generic evil leftists that you got from some unidentified poll.  You were tossing that around for another reason.  13% is the percentage of Americans who favor only gov't single payer with no private option, whether duplicative or supplemental. 

So 45% is the number you are looking for here, not 44%.  And 48.1%, and even 41.9% is a number that is easily overcome by turnout and marketing in an election that is still a year away.   Your favored cohorts aren't getting any younger either.  None of the trends regarding single payer favor your direction.  Again, that's why you're here, and Lord knows what lies you spread on Facebook.

I know you think your poll favors you, but I like it.  Even if the election happened right now.  71% favor a public option.  The remaining 29% combo of "like it how it is" and "no gov't ever" aren't Dem primary voters.  This puts the center of the Dem primary well within the "Bernie" range.  In the general, we already know one side's plan is to "at best, keep it how it is, but try to fuck it up even worse if he can."  The Trump plan polls at only 15% in your poll because he doesn't even want to leave things intact.  Any Dem plan destroys the Trump plan in polling in the general.  Trump isn't reaching out to that needed 26% at all.  He's barely even reaching the 14% that like it how it is.

[BradInATX 9208]

6 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

First, you keep mixing up your two Fox News talking points.  12% is the percentage of Americans that are generic evil leftists that you got from some unidentified poll.  You were tossing that around for another reason.  13% is the percentage of Americans who favor only gov't single payer with no private option, whether duplicative or supplemental. 

So 45% is the number you are looking for here, not 44%.  And 48.1%, and even 41.9% is a number that is easily overcome by turnout and marketing in an election that is still a year away.   Your favored cohorts aren't getting any younger either.  None of the trends regarding single payer favor your direction.  Again, that's why you're here, and Lord knows what lies you spread on Facebook.

I know you think your poll favors you, but I like it.  Even if the election happened right now.  71% favor a public option.  The remaining 29% combo of "like it how it is" and "no gov't ever" aren't Dem primary voters.  This puts the center of the Dem primary well within the "Bernie" range.  In the general, we already know one side's plan is to "at best, keep it how it is, but try to fuck it up even worse if he can."  The Trump plan polls at only 15% in your poll because he doesn't even want to leave things intact.  Any Dem plan destroys the Trump plan in polling in the general.  Trump isn't reaching out to that needed 26% at all.  He's barely even reaching the 14% that like it how it is.

I don't know what you think I support, but I'm for M4A (who want it) as laid out by Beto, Pete, and probably Warren. So I'm not here trying to "win" any polls. I already know that public opinion is on my side. But it is not on yours - the side of fully abolishing private insurance.

"This puts the center of the Dem primary well within the "Bernie" range"

lol

[FondrenRoad 4378]

7 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I don't know what you think I support, but I'm for M4A (who want it) as laid out by Beto, Pete, and probably Warren. So I'm not here trying to "win" any polls. I already know that public opinion is on my side. But it is not on yours - the side of fully abolishing private insurance.

"This puts the center of the Dem primary well within the "Bernie" range"

lol

More obfuscation.  That probably works well with your grandpa on facebook, but it doesn't work very well here.  Bernie's plan polls at 45% in your cherry picked poll with all Americans.  If its at 45% with all Americans, where do you think it is with all registered Democrats?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Watching Pete get reprogrammed over six months might be the most disappointing thing so far in this primary. 

[BradInATX 9208]

44 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

More obfuscation.  That probably works well with your grandpa on facebook, but it doesn't work very well here.  Bernie's plan polls at 45% in your cherry picked poll with all Americans.  If its at 45% with all Americans, where do you think it is with all registered Democrats?

Does the general election only allow democrats to vote? As far as obfuscating, you're the one trying to make 44% greater than 50%, then twisting and turning in the wind as you try to reframe the argument every 3rd post. We're done here - my point was made clearly. Let me know if you figure out how to trick the principles of mathematics into somehow winning this discussion.

Edited September 15, 2019 by BradInATX

[Celery Man 21098]

I first saw the Corn Pop story a few days back.  Screencaps in a tweet and I thought it was a joke, so I googled it and holy shit that's great.  He stood up to Corn Pop, leader of the Romans, and came away with a new friend.  I can hear the music.  And the snapping.

I soured on Pete a bit when he came to Austin, and you had to pay to watch his stump.  That's weak.  Wrong order man, I go see you and hear what you have to say, and then I'll throw you a few bones.  I really liked Beto's approach in Texas, which felt genuine - go everywhere, talk to everyone.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Does the general election only allow democrats to vote? As far as obfuscating, you're the one trying to make 44% greater than 50%, then twisting and turning in the wind as you try to reframe the argument every 3rd post. We're done here - my point was made clearly. Let me know if you figure out how to trick the principles of mathematics into somehow winning this discussion.

Obfuscation again.  The Dem will be running against Trump and Trump alone. There are only 2 choices in the general. In the poll, there are 5. Trump offers the worst choice available for at least 71% of your poll. And it's actually probably higher than that because he doesn't want to keep healthcare as it is.  A self proclaimed statistician should understand that most of these people will have to go with their 2nd or 3rd choice on healthcare in the general. Or I guess we just won't have a President at all because, you know, nothing got over 50% in a 5 choice poll. 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

Obfuscation again.  The Dem will be running against Trump and Trump alone. There are only 2 choices in the general. In the poll, there are 5. Trump offers the worst choice available for at least 71% of your poll. And it's actually probably higher than that because he doesn't want to keep healthcare as it is.  A self proclaimed statistician should understand that most of these people will have to go with their 2nd or 3rd choice on healthcare in the general. Or I guess we just won't have a President at all because, you know, nothing got over 50% in a 5 choice poll. 

 

Do you even know what the word obfuscation means?

[Celery Man 21098]

how can you be so obfuse

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Do you even know what the word obfuscation means?

Yes. It means you are trying to obscure the underlying results of the poll. Initially, you hid behind 13% and attempted to apply people and policy to that 13% that aren't actually represented in it.  When called out on that you began hiding behind 45%. Now it has been pointed out to you that the presidential election provides exactly 2 choices. Your obfuscation here is that you are attempting to pretend that it doesn't. Further, you imply that someone who wants universal healthcare with both private and public options is going to vote for a guy that is killing the mandate and wants to prevent people with pre-existing conditions from being able to purchase insurance. The Dem won't be running against Romney, you realize?

What result you are trying to achieve by doing this, I don't know. Bernie would mop the floor with Trump in the general on healthcare. If he loses, it would be due to some other nonsensical attack.  

An actual moderate Dem would vote for Bernie over Trump because Trump is not a moderate. Any one that actually is center left would support a far left candidate over a far right one. You come across as either a homeless RINO or an insincere Trumpist. 

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yes. It means you are trying to obscure the underlying results of the poll. Initially, you hid behind 13% and attempted to apply people and policy to that 13% that aren't actually represented in it.  When called out on that you began hiding behind 45%. Now it has been pointed out to you that the presidential election provides exactly 2 choices. Your obfuscation here is that you are attempting to pretend that it doesn't. Further, you imply that someone who wants universal healthcare with both private and public options is going to vote for a guy that is killing the mandate and wants to prevent people with pre-existing conditions from being able to purchase insurance. The Dem won't be running against Romney, you realize?

What result you are trying to achieve by doing this, I don't know. Bernie would mop the floor with Trump in the general on healthcare. If he loses, it would be due to some other nonsensical attack.  

An actual moderate Dem would vote for Bernie over Trump because Trump is not a moderate. Any one that actually is center left would support a far left candidate over a far right one. You come across as either a homeless RINO or an insincere Trumpist. 

This entire discussion revolves around me calling out the disingenuous posts that say a "majority" of Americans are for full single-payer healthcare.

Every accusation a confession here. The only one obfuscating is you as you try to re-frame the discussion away from its original premise. 

Is 45% a majority, or is it not? This is a really simple discussion. It either is or it isn't, despite your attempts to twist and troll the conversation into what you hope it will be vs. where we started it.  I'm finished here, unless you can somehow prove that 45 is > 50.

Edited September 15, 2019 by BradInATX

[Hank Kingsley 21790]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Watching Pete get reprogrammed over six months might be the most disappointing thing so far in this primary. 

His positions haven’t changed at all.

It was dumb for him to throw an elbow at Beto right now, I’ll give you that.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

8 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

This entire discussion revolves around me calling out the disingenuous posts that say a "majority" of Americans are for full single-payer healthcare.

Every accusation a confession here. The only one obfuscating is you as you try to re-frame the discussion away from its original premise. 

Is 45% a majority, or is it not? This is a really simple discussion. It either is or it isn't, despite your attempts to twist and troll the conversation into what you hope it will be vs. where we started it.  I'm finished here, unless you can somehow prove that 45 is > 50.

I never said it was a majority of Americans.  I said it was a majority of Democrats. I also said it would win the general election where there are 2 choices instead of 5.  And that would be the case even if healthcare were the only thing being voted on. Instead, Trump also offers sub 30% options on nearly every policy area. 

This is your problem. You are dishonest in conversation. If you could actually reply to things as they are posted, this would have been finished long ago.

This is pretty much the argument you have been trying to make.  Bernie can't win because he only has 13%. Okay, he can't win because he only has 45%.  He needs a majority!!  It doesn't matter that Trump's plan has less than 20% approval in the same poll!  Only Dems need a majority!

In actuality, 45% wins polls on most policy questions.  The "don't know and don't care" option is conspicuously missing from this poll, but it exists for sure. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, FondrenRoad said:

 

This is pretty much the argument you have been trying to make.  Bernie can't win because he only has 13%. Okay, he can't win because he only has 45%.  He needs a majority!!  It doesn't matter that Trump's plan has less than 20% approval in the same poll!  Only Dems need a majority! 

Can you provide a link to anywhere previous in this discussion that I said "Bernie can't win because he only has 13%", or anything remotely close to that? Because if you're not, then you're being a dishonest, disingenuous troll.

I already know the answer BTW. Peace.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Can you provide a link to anywhere previous in this discussion that I said "Bernie can't win because he only has 13%", or anything remotely close to that? Because if you're not, then you're being a dishonest, disingenuous troll.

I already know the answer BTW. Peace.

Lol. Our entire discussion started with your claim that Bernie's plan polled 13% because you failed to understand that his plan allows for supplemental. 

I'll give you credit for one thing. You are fast as fuck on the replies. Peace out if you want, but don't keep saying it if you aren't gonna do it. Be a man of your word. 

Perhaps you'd do better if you just spoke about what policies you prefer rather than railing against the "left" and trying to obfuscate poll meanings. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by FondrenRoad

[henrygandorf 29227]

6 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Bye Pete

 

pete - bernie/liz approach can polarize and divide.

liz fan - i'm gonna show everyone how wrong he is by telling pete he's cancelled.

 

lulz.