2020 Democratic Nominee

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

 

[bad_teammate 13,132]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

This poll is true. Lots of polls are BS, but this one, with Joe in 3rd, is accurate and real.

[tantric superman 4,667]

So Booker might not be happening?

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

Maybe for Warren's veep

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This poll is true. Lots of polls are BS, but this one, with Joe in 3rd, is accurate and real.

I lazily checked the fundamentals before I posted.  Very good sample size 3,000+ >2.0 MOE.

Right now all polls are junk food for our pundit brains but this one tastes good. 

[bad_teammate 13,132]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Right now all polls are junk food for our pundit brains but this one tastes good. 

Yep.

[DixonHur 11,154]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Pete was a nice fresh face on the national political scene, but he's not ready for prime time yet.  Like the rest of the field, he should consider a run for Senate instead

Edited September 19, 2019 by DixonHur
oops, was using Czech keyboard

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

 

15 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Pete was a nice fresh face on the national political scene, but he's not ready for prime time yet.  Like the rest of the field, he should consider a run for Senate instead

Is this an assumption that he flip flopped on M4A? Because he hasn't. That interview in the clip was on February 14th. 

On February 5th, Pete said this in an interview: 

Buttigieg proposed gradually switching over to a single payer system by making a version of Medicare available on the health care exchanges for people to opt into.

“Well, you had to make sure that it leads to better results, and if we need a road, a gradual way to get there, then we can start with Medicare for all who want it by making some version of Medicare available on the exchanges for people to opt into, as part of the pathway to Medicare for all so that you can try before you buy so to speak as a country,” he said.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-arter/south-bend-mayor-pete-buttigieg-medicare-all-will-be-center-gravity

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Liz & Bernie: swing for the fences 24/7 and maybe hit a double or a triple.  

Pete:  Golly gee it would be great to hit a home run but I’m going to bunt and then oppose everyone on my team trying to hit home runs. 

Pete unilaterally gives up leverage by not fighting for a universal healthcare system.  

 

[Patrick Bateman 3,903]

Or maybe Pete doesn't really think M4A is the right solution and feels a robust public option is a better way.  M4A is not the majority opinion of Americans, regardless of the echo chamber here.  It may end up being the best solution, but that's far from clear.  The nomination race is better for Pete being a part of it, even though he doesn't have a chance in hell of getting the actual nomination.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

9 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Or maybe Pete doesn't really think M4A is the right solution and feels a robust public option is a better way.  M4A is not the majority opinion of Americans, regardless of the echo chamber here.  It may end up being the best solution, but that's far from clear.  The nomination race is better for Pete being a part of it, even though he doesn't have a chance in hell of getting the actual nomination.

Did you miss the video of Pete praising Medicare for All back in February, saying it should be mainstream instead of fringe? 

Also, a reason MFA isn’t as popular as it could be is due to the lack of visible advocates.  That’s where Bernie and Liz come in, they can shift public opinion through their campaigns.  Pete could have been in this group too but decided for political expediency and donations. 

Pete has a bright future in cable news.  

Edited September 19, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Did you miss the video of Pete praising Medicare for All back in February, saying it should be mainstream instead of fringe? 

There is no contradiction. He's always believed in universal healthcare. His plan is what he feels is the best and right way to get there. 

He doesn't believe the government should "force" people into universal healthcare. If the public option is clearly better and private insurance can't be or isn't willing to be competitive, than naturally everyone will start moving to the better option. 

 

[Biff Tannen 45,491]

18 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Or maybe Pete doesn't really think M4A is the right solution and feels a robust public option is a better way.  M4A is not the majority opinion of Americans, regardless of the echo chamber here.  It may end up being the best solution, but that's far from clear.  The nomination race is better for Pete being a part of it, even though he doesn't have a chance in hell of getting the actual nomination.

Are we drawing a distinction between M4A and M4A who want it?  Public option seems to be VERY popular.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

People have been blurring the lines on what they mean by M4A, intentionally, so it's hard to know what he meant. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

The public option has been popular for 30 years. Bill Clinton ran on it in 1992, didn’t get it.  Obama did the same in 2008.  

Running on the public option has only produced some compromise between public option and status quo (Obamacare).  

It you really want the public option, shooting for Medicare for All is likely the best way to get there.  You have to move the Overton window on healthcare.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The public option has been popular for 30 years. Bill Clinton ran on it in 1992, didn’t get it.  Obama did the same in 2008.  

Running on the public option has only produced some compromise between public option and status quo (Obamacare).  

It you really want the public option, shooting for Medicare for All is likely the best way to get there.  You have to move the Overton window on healthcare.

If Bernie or Liz become POTUS and the end result is a public option is that even acceptable to M4A diehards? 

 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If Bernie or Liz become POTUS and the end result is a public option is that even acceptable to M4A diehards?

They will keep fighting for Medicare for All/Single payer and be much closer to achieving it

Edited September 19, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Patrick Bateman 3,903]

26 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Did you miss the video of Pete praising Medicare for All back in February, saying it should be mainstream instead of fringe? 

Also, a reason MFA isn’t as popular as it could be is due to the lack of visible advocates.  That’s where Bernie and Liz come in, they can shift public opinion through their campaigns.  Pete could have been in this group too but decided for political expediency and donations. 

Pete has a bright future in cable news.  

I watched it and it's just part of the process (something you support all the time when it's one of your candidates) and the need to highlight or concentrate on differences amongst people who believe in 80% of the same things is good information.  At the heart of things, M4A does take away choice and instead makes the decision that the government understands and knows these markets the best and will make a decision for all Americans.  A lot of Americans whole heartedly disagree.  There are different ways to come to universal healthcare and folks should concentrate on understanding the differences (because it can be complex) rather than whining about the messaging.

 

[bad_teammate 13,132]

If Bernie or Liz become POTUS and the end result is a public option is that even acceptable to M4A diehards? 
 
 
 

Conservatives are the ones whose entire worldview is predicated on fear of change and a desire for stasis.

There is no "end result".

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

whining about the messaging.

The messaging is everything.  It defines how hard you’re going to fight and how much support you can generate behind your ideas.  Pete is being politically savvy because he has to.

Will it work? I don’t know but his conviction on where he stands on healthcare has changed over the past eight months.   Other candidates have pivoted like this too after being vocal advocates for Medicare for All (Kamala, Cory, Beto, Gillibrand).  It hasn’t done much for them.  Perhaps it will be different with Pete, only time will tell.

And I say this as someone that has donated money to Pete’s campaign. 

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Conservatives are the ones whose entire worldview is predicated on fear of change and a desire for stasis.

There is no "end result".

Fair enough. 

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I don’t know but his conviction on where he stands on healthcare has changed over the past eight months.  

Not true. As I posted earlier in this thread, he was touting "Medicare for All Who Want It" a week or two after he announced his exploratory committee. 

 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

17 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The messaging is everything.  It defines how hard you’re going to fight and how much support you can generate behind your ideas.  

So why hasn't Warren released her detailed M4A plan yet? Why did she just add a healthcare section under "plans" on her website literally a week ago? 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[Bruh Man 3,160]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Liz & Bernie: swing for the fences 24/7 and maybe hit a double or a triple.  

Pete:  Golly gee it would be great to hit a home run but I’m going to bunt and then oppose everyone on my team trying to hit home runs. 

Pete unilaterally gives up leverage by not fighting for a universal healthcare system.  

 

Thank you.

Bernie & Warren aren't feigning a maximalist position. They have always negotiated. The argument is where you start that negotiation. The boldness of the Sanders and Warren campaigns is in where they want to start the debate, not where it will end.
 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

9 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

So why hasn't Warren released her detailed M4A plan yet? Why did she just add a healthcare section under "plans" on her website literally a week ago? 

Uh, she’s been pretty clear she’s with Bernie on healthcare and she’s defending that position.  She doesn’t need her own plan with her name on it.

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

Shit's getting real 

 

[henrygandorf 29,174]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Liz & Bernie: swing for the fences 24/7 and maybe hit a double or a triple.  

i think the public opinion may be that warren might be ok stopping on 2nd or 3rd base, but bernie might be all or nothing.

i think this has been the genius of warren's positioning.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Shit's getting real 

 

Pete is desperate. 

[henrygandorf 29,174]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Shit's getting real 

 

it happened a couple debates ago too, when the moderator was forced to ask bernie 3-4x "will the taxes go up for the middle class?"

m4a in some form is what needs to happen, regardless of what it looks like on the road to universal coverage and single payer.  bernie and liz know this, but somehow are unprepared for this question.  it's gonna get worse before it gets better, and they need a trained and rehearsed talking point.  it's disappointing that there isn't a better one by now.  you can't always just pivot to "well, you have to understand..." especially when addressing a journalist/tv host.  it looks like typical politician nonsense, and will end up hurting more than it helps.

the answer needs to be a clean, "yes.  and here's why that's ok..."  and then follow it up with the facts that make it a no-brainer.  they're carrying the water on this one, but they need to be stronger on the talking points.

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Pete is desperate. 

Definitely seems risky. Warren should be able to sway it away with a good answer. 

 

[henrygandorf 29,174]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Pete is desperate. 

doesn't mean he's wrong.

i guess colbert is desperate too.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Unnecessary of Pete who is smart enough to know about playing into Republican talking points.  Biden doesn’t even do this shit. 

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Yeah Pete! I wonder why? 

It’s fair game for Pete to play this shit but he’s basically giving up on pulling any support from Warren/Sanders.  Looks more like a kamikaze mission.  Pete is such a good little mercenary.

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

Video for full context 

 

Sorry, I don't buy the excuse of "giving Rs a talking point" being more important than just giving a straight, direct answer to the American people. 

I think Pete's point is completely valid. I also think this should be an easy layup for Warren. If she smacks him down, then Pete will feel the effects of the backfire. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Going to be great when Liz releases her middle class tax cut plan.  

[tantric superman 4,667]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah Pete! I wonder why? 

It’s fair game for Pete to play this shit but he’s basically giving up on pulling any support from Warren/Sanders.  Looks more like a kamikaze mission.  Pete is such a good little mercenary.

Seems like a good plan -- you isolate (or divide) the Warren/Sanders vote and hope that you peel off Biden voters or that Biden self destructs. 

Pete could very easily be the beneficiary of the folks who are drop out.  He doesn't need the Sanders or Warren vote and should try to distinguish himself from them.  It's not necessarily a winning strategy but it's his best strategy.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Pete has zero path to the nomination.  You can bookmark this post now.

[henrygandorf 29,174]

hey it's bold prediction thursday here on the surl.

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

Hugo's anger over this is proof that Warren hasn't had any pushback in a loooooong time. 

 

[Js1 85,085]

15 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Hugo's anger over this is proof that Warren hasn't had any pushback in a loooooong time. 

 

She’s very much coasted while Biden, Bernie and Harris have taken the licks. 

[6th Street 6,354]

31 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Video for full context 

 

Sorry, I don't buy the excuse of "giving Rs a talking point" being more important than just giving a straight, direct answer to the American people. 

I think Pete's point is completely valid. I also think this should be an easy layup for Warren. If she smacks him down, then Pete will feel the effects of the backfire. 

 

The moment Warren admits taxes going up for her healthcare plan, she will surrender the moderate vote. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19,330]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

She’s very much coasted while Biden, Bernie and Harris have taken the licks. 

I almost wish someone would go after her. She needs the practice for the debates Vs Trump. 

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

Just now, Pescado_Rojo said:

I almost wish someone would go after her. She needs the practice for the debates Vs Trump. 

Yes, this is good politics! It will make Warren a STRONGER candidate if she can handle this fairly basic criticism. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

34 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Hugo's anger over this is proof that Warren hasn't had any pushback in a loooooong time. 

 

Also proof that she’s the perceived front runner now, so I’ll take it.

[henrygandorf 29,174]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Also proof that she’s the perceived front runner now, so I’ll take it.

i think most everyone here is plenty happy about this.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

None of the candidates have really gone after anyone except Biden, because he's the front-runner and in most of the candidates' lanes, and it's backfired each time (Harris, Castro).   That's the difficulty in a primary:  you hurt the target and yourself, and only help the bystanders.   Trump hacked the system by running on being a gigantic asshole, so his attacks on others were on brand, while everyone who attacked him hurt themselves, one by one.  Cruz finished second only by being the last to attack Trump.

Warren has done a great job of positioning herself for growth without needing to attack anyone and as the second option for people turned off by the attacks of others.  Now we're going to see how she handles getting attacked, and that's a good thing. 

[Hank Kingsley 20,676]

And this isn't some out of nowhere, baseless attack. It's a legit criticism that she should be able to handle. 

 

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

Yeah, it's totally fine.  I think Pete is making a mistake by going after her personally for a lack of candor instead of just saying M4A would raise taxes and that would be bad, if that is what he believes.  But she should be able to handle it if she's the next president. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

And this isn't some out of nowhere, baseless attack. It's a legit criticism that she should be able to handle. 

And Pete will have to live with the consequences of making his “legit criticism” on Elizabeth Warren.   

I agree it’s healthy to challenge the other candidates to make them stronger.  I’m just disappointed Pete chose this line of attack because Warren is literally advocating to save people’s lives from the exploitative health insurance industry.  Pete doesn’t even mention that though, it’s all about the tax question.  

Good job Pete and go fuck yourself.