2020 Democratic Nominee

[texastough 1129]

I don't understand why so many of y'all are getting panties wadded up about her focusing on the full equation (costs for most Americans will go down) instead of half the equation (taxes will go up). That is the real truth. If she gave the soundbite about taxes it would not be used only in attack ads, it would be repeated all over the place by media and everyone else, and it would warp the debate on this. Thats what she's trying to avoid, and to keep the public understanding focused on what really matters. Calling her a liar for that makes no sense to me.

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Independents and Republicans sitting at home eating popcorn. 

"Yeah, I don't believe that ad. I didn't specifically hear the word 'taxes' come out of her mouth, so it can't possibly be true. Liz 2020!"

 

 

You seem to think people are robots who process information rationally and without emotion.  If that were true, Trump wouldn't be president.   There's a reason everyone keeps asking Warren to say the words, and it isn't because they don't know the answer. 

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

You seem to think people are robots who process information rationally and without emotion.  If that were true, Trump wouldn't be president.   There's a reason everyone keeps asking Warren to say the words, and it isn't because they don't know the answer. 

It's because she hasn't officially released a healthcare plan. That would make all the questions go away.  Seems pretty easy to do. 

 

 

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

It's because she hasn't officially released a healthcare plan. That would make all the questions go away.  Seems pretty easy to do. 

 

 

 

Right, she's getting continually pressed on a single detail of her plan because she doesn't have a plan.  That makes sense. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It's because she hasn't officially released a healthcare plan. That would make all the questions go away.  Seems pretty easy to do.

Yeah, and releasing her own plan locks her down into a new can of worms I’m sure no one would attack her on.  

I hope she sticks to her guns and keeps evading the “gotcha questions.” 

[Todd Gack 431]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It's because she hasn't officially released a healthcare plan. That would make all the questions go away.  Seems pretty easy to do. 

 

 

 

Did she not co-sponsor Bernie's bill?  What am I missing here?

[henrygandorf 29177]

14 minutes ago, texastough said:

I don't understand why so many of y'all are getting panties wadded up about her focusing on the full equation (costs for most Americans will go down) instead of half the equation (taxes will go up). That is the real truth.

i think most people generally here agree with this - that the full equation is a win - but she hasn't done a very good job of crystallizing her message, and the more she avoids it, the worse it'll get.  and honestly, the longer she goes without clarity, the more i'm afraid of her altering her policy down the road.

[henrygandorf 29177]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah, and releasing her own plan locks her down into a new can of worms I’m sure no one would attack her on.  

I hope she sticks to her guns and keeps evading the “gotcha questions.” 

every question is a gotcha question if you refuse to answer it.

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

Right, she's getting continually pressed on a single detail of her plan because she doesn't have a plan.  That makes sense. 

The fact that she has repeatedly dodged a simple yes/no question and is the only major candidate not to release a detailed plan makes me wonder if she's really for M4A. Can you blame me? 

Again, if she dropped a detailed M4A plan tomorrow (or just linked Bernie's plan on her website), I'd be done with this. I'm simply not going to buy the GOP attack ad talking point excuse. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

2 minutes ago, Todd Gack said:

Did she not co-sponsor Bernie's bill?  What am I missing here?

Kamala and Booker co-sponsored as well. They both flipped to something different. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah, and releasing her own plan locks her down into a new can of worms I’m sure no one would attack her on.  

I hope she sticks to her guns and keeps evading the “gotcha questions.” 

Apparently Elizabeth Warren, and only Elizabeth Warren, should AVOID releasing a detailed healthcare plan because that is smart strategy. 

At least you admit her nomination should be a coronation 3 1/2 months before Iowa. 

 

[Todd Gack 431]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Kamala and Booker co-sponsored as well. They both flipped to something different. 

 

https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/health-care

Her website says she hasn't flipped.  I hope she continues to extend her middle finger to the media outlets asking a question they know the answer to at the direction of their advertisers.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Kamala and Booker co-sponsored as well. They both flipped to something different. 

 

Therefore what?

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Therefore what?

Therefore just because a Senator co-sponsored Bernie's bill doesn't mean their presidential candidate plan will be the same? 

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

7 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The fact that she has repeatedly dodged a simple yes/no question and is the only major candidate not to release a detailed plan makes me wonder if she's really for M4A. Can you blame me? 

Again, if she dropped a detailed M4A plan tomorrow (or just linked Bernie's plan on her website), I'd be done with this. I'm simply not going to buy the GOP attack ad talking point excuse. 

 

So repeatedly saying she's for M4A with her mouth and on Twitter isn't enough, but a link on her website would satisfy you?  That's absurd. 

Regardless, it's not the M4A people who keep pressing her to answer the question in these debates.  It's the people who are against M4A and who are arguing that it will be too costly.  You may have your own reasons for wanting her to do it, but that's not why she isn't answering the question. 

[Js1 85110]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Therefore what?

The “Ive got a plan for everything” candidate should have her own plan and be able to explain it? Instead of saying “I’m with Bernie” as if that absolves any criticism of her or need for her to explain that plan. 

[henrygandorf 29177]

Westerville, Ohio (CNN)Elizabeth Warren's campaign said on Wednesday that it is studying a range of options for paying for "Medicare for All," leaving open the possibility that the presidential candidate may ultimately diverge from Sen. Bernie Sanders on how his sweeping health care plan -- which Warren has endorsed -- would be paid for.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/16/politics/elizabeth-warren-medicare-for-all/index.html

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/16/politics/elizabeth-warren-medicare-for-all/index.html

Option C — just tax the rich more to cover the difference. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

So repeatedly saying she's for M4A with her mouth and on Twitter isn't enough, but a link on her website would satisfy you?  That's absurd. 

Yes, a detailed plan would satisfy me. 

We've already seen numerous candidates say at some point over the last few years that they believe in M4A, only to present a healthcare plan that isn't Bernie's M4A. They've adopted the term but framed their plans differently on how we would get to universal healthcare (including Pete!). 

So excuse me for being a little suspicious when Warren uses the language but hasn't dropped a plan. Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

The concerning on Warren’s healthcare plan that’s not a plan is rather amusing.  It beats the hell out of concerning on Hillary’s emails.  

Her agenda is pretty simple and a healthcare plan isn’t the priority but everyone demands that she promise something in writing on it now that she’s the front runner. Curious!

Edited October 16, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

 

[henrygandorf 29177]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The concerning on Warren’s healthcare plan that’s not a plan is rather amusing.  It beats the hell out of concerning on Hillary’s emails.  

Her agenda is pretty simple and a healthcare plan isn’t the priority but everyone demands that she promise something in writing on it now that she’s the front runner. Curious!

why isn't it?  it's the top priority for voters.

and lulz "now that she's the front-runner".

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

7 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

why isn't it?  it's the top priority for voters.

and lulz "now that she's the front-runner".

Because her priority is anti-corruption.  Her campaign thesis is nothing gets done on healthcare, climate change, student loans, gun control, or anything else until new laws are written to disconnect the subversive big money influence from our political system. If she’s elected, I’d speculate all her energy is going to be on anti-corruption legislation, the wealth tax, and some form of the Green New Deal.  She’s going to fight for universal healthcare too but it’s not going to be a day 1 priority like the anti-corruption bills.  

Edited October 16, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Mojo Hand 4580]

20 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Yes, a detailed plan would satisfy me. 

We've already seen numerous candidates say at some point over the last few years that they believe in M4A, only to present a healthcare plan that isn't Bernie's M4A. They've adopted the term but framed their plans differently on how we would get to universal healthcare (including Pete!). 

So excuse me for being a little suspicious when Warren uses the language but hasn't dropped a plan. Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again. 

It sounds to me like Bernie is the right candidate for you.   Warren isn't Bernie.  I'm certain that he will never settle for anything less than what he's proposed and that he would take nothing over a compromise.  I think she'd fight for M4A but ultimately compromise to get something passed.  That's why I prefer her, but I can understand why others might not.   And she could copy and paste Bernie's bill to her website, but it wouldn't change any of that. 

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

It sounds to me like Bernie is the right candidate for you.   Warren isn't Bernie.  I'm certain that he will never settle for anything less than what he's proposed and that he would take nothing over a compromise.  I think she'd fight for M4A but ultimately compromise to get something passed.  That's why I prefer her, but I can understand why others might not.   And she could copy and paste Bernie's bill to her website, but it wouldn't change any of that. 

You're missing my point. Pete is my #1 right now and Warren is #2.  I'm not a person that demands Bernie's M4A plan.

I just want her to be forthright. That's it. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

The thing about Warren’s plans is they’re not so much actual bills she’s promising but more about articulating her vision and values for America through her policy ideas.  

She has articulated where she wants America to be on healthcare and that’s with a single payer system.  The criticism for a lack of details on this issue at this moment in time is really just concern trolling.  As if there aren’t plenty of workable ways to get to a single payer healthcare system. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The thing about Warren’s plans is they’re not so much actual bills she’s promising but more about articulating her vision and values for America through her policy ideas.  

She has articulated where she wants America to be on healthcare and that’s with a single payer system.  The criticism for a lack of details on this issue at this moment in time is really just concern trolling.  As if there aren’t plenty of workable ways to get to a single payer healthcare system. 

LMAO.

"She has a vision for that!"

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

You're missing my point. Pete is my #1 right now and Warren is #2.  I'm not a person that demands Bernie's M4A plan.

I just want her to be forthright. That's it. 

 

What a weird take.   You just said that Pete is one of the candidates who coopted the M4A label only to come out with a less-fullsome variant, and that your worry is that Warren will do the same thing.  But he's your #1 candidate.  OK.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

LMAO.

"She has a vision for that!"

That’s what this is ultimately about. Where do you plan to move the country as president?  You don’t become god when you’re elected president and get to automatically implement everything you want.  

You are merely given the power and platform to move the U.S.  government and society in a direction towards your vision.  

[Celery Man 20886]

I can’t wait to get past this part and to the part where we unite behind a candidate. This is a fucking beating.

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

What a weird take.   You just said that Pete is one of the candidates who coopted the M4A label only to come out with a less-fullsome variant, and that your worry is that Warren will do the same thing.  But he's your #1 candidate.  OK.

Well, Pete was proposing "Medicare For All Who Want It" in February,  two weeks after he announced his exploratory committee and two months before he officially announced his candidacy.  So as a presidential candidate he's been consistent. He's believed for years that universal healthcare should be the ultimate goal, but offers a different way to get there and not on a specific timeline. 

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That’s what this is ultimately about. Where do you plan to move the country as president?  You don’t become god when you’re elected president and get to automatically implement everything you want.  

You are merely given the power and platform to move the U.S.  government and society in a direction towards your vision.  

I totally agree. 

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

[bad_teammate 13132]

4 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

so what's your take on it then?  do you think she's just avoiding giving the right a soundbyte?

Not sure.

One issue not discussed here (because I don't think you guys care or pay attention to Bernie's stuff) is that he has offered multiple pathways to funding Medicare for All. Part of the hesitation to speak on the specifics of funding is that funding and M4A itself are different things.

Liz isn't being as clear as she should be regarding funding when offering support of the best healthcare plan proposed by any candidate.
Pete isn't being as clear as he should be regarding funding when offering support of a worse plan.

Advantage: Liz

[henrygandorf 29177]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Not sure.

One issue not discussed here (because I don't think you guys care or pay attention to Bernie's stuff) is that he has offered multiple pathways to funding Medicare for All. Part of the hesitation to speak on the specifics of funding is that funding and M4A itself are different things.

Liz isn't being as clear as she should be regarding funding when offering support of the best healthcare plan proposed by any candidate.
Pete isn't being as clear as he should be regarding funding when offering support of a worse plan.

Advantage: Liz

yeah, wasn't really anything to do with pete (or the specifics of the m4a plan) just wanted to hear the opinion of a bro who likes warren a lot (as i imagine a lot of bros do).

what you bring up is interesting though, because everyone uses the blanket "m4a" when they talk, but not only are there different actual plans, different rollouts, etc, but obviously different funding proposals/pathways.  from the looks of the cnn article, and the mention that warren may start to deviate from bernie's m4a plan, i wonder if it's just the funding options that she's exploring.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Some other polling data in the link (Susan Collins/impeachment/favorables)

[Js1 85110]

Yuck

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

what you bring up is interesting though, because everyone uses the blanket "m4a" when they talk, but not only are there different actual plans, different rollouts, etc, but obviously different funding proposals/pathways. 

I think Kamala is the only non-Bernie candidate with a plan called "Medicare for All", but I don't think anyone here actually takes her or her plan seriously enough to pretend to be confused about these different things.

Quote

from the looks of the cnn article, and the mention that warren may start to deviate from bernie's m4a plan, i wonder if it's just the funding options that she's exploring.

Who knows. If she comes up with something genuinely better then that's great. Bernie's M4A isn't the best possible healthcare plan conceivable, it's just the best (by far) of those out there promoted by major candidates.

[henrygandorf 29177]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Who knows. If she comes up with something genuinely better then that's great. Bernie's M4A isn't the best possible healthcare plan conceivable, it's just the best (by far) of those out there promoted by major candidates.

right.  well i think we've gotten consumed with her dodging the funding question that she might be pulling a misdirection and actually change up the policy as well.  which as i stated earlier today, was my genuine concern with the whole thing.

the gop talking point was just a red herring.

[Bruh Man 3160]

[Js1 85110]

Elizabeth Warren: C

Sen. Warren needs to answer the questions. She is simply too smart to ignore the topic she is being asked to address -- especially when she's asked the same thing multiple times. Should Trump's Twitter account be suspended? I personally don't know -- and neither, it seems, does Warren. How is she planning to pay for Medicare for all? Again, she left us wondering...

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

12 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Elizabeth Warren: C

Sen. Warren needs to answer the questions. She is simply too smart to ignore the topic she is being asked to address -- especially when she's asked the same thing multiple times. Should Trump's Twitter account be suspended? I personally don't know -- and neither, it seems, does Warren. How is she planning to pay for Medicare for all? Again, she left us wondering...

[Js1 85110]

Lighten up Hugo. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

I don’t look calm to you? 

[Bruh Man 3160]

The Onion
9 hrs ·
"Early on, I thought it was definitely going to be Biden, but a lot of other candidates made great points about why they needed to be killed to save America, so I was really torn."

 

About this website

POLITICS.THEONION.COM

Trump Supporter Comes Away From Democratic Debate With Pretty Clear Idea Of Which Candidate He’s Going To Kill

Edited October 17, 2019 by Bruh Man

[zork 629]

8 hours ago, Js1 said:

Yuck

 

[Js1 85110]

Omg why 

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Show me the # of people who were activated and where that money actually came from.

[Hank Kingsley 20705]

49 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Show me the # of people who were activated and where that money actually came from.

AKA I can't possibly believe any normal person would donate to a non-Bernie/Liz candidate.