2020 Democratic Nominee

washparkhorn · February 21, 2020

4 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

But one thing I try and remember is history. A Gallup poll taken right after the Kent State massacre had 58% blaming the students. In a 2016 book written about the shootings, the author states that some students were told that more should have been killed to teach student protestors a lesson. Those attitudes didn't go away. Nixon was perceived to be cold and unfeeling toward the slain students, but ultimately Trump would react far far worse and as much as folks say that Americans are too lazy to do anything, I'm not so sure there aren't plenty of citizens who would love to take advantage of the chaos to wreak their own havoc on whomever they wish to prey.

And that is my blindspot with Texas. That will not happen in the states where I work. If anything, the anger towards anything Trump is more worrisome here. How often do you see MAGA hats where you live, if I may ask? Daily?

bad_teammate · February 21, 2020

14 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I will do my part to help Bernie, but having to answer "don't worry, he's not gonna be able to pass anything" when skeptics/detractors complain about his policies will be awkward.

You don't have to answer like that.

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Bernie supporters, on the other hand, HAVE pre-determined their take -- if Bernie gets a plurality, and doesn't end up with the nomination going into the convention, they will NOT respect any outcome of the existing brokered convention process OTHER than a Bernie nomination. Bernie and his supporters knew what the process was before he even filed his paperwork to run....but NOW, now that it's possible he won't get an outright majority, well, if he doesn't win after a plurality, THE FIX IS IN!

I've been saying from the days of Bernie being #3 behind Biden and Warren that the person with the most votes should get the nomination. Pretty much everyone has been saying it until very very recently.

Why are you acting like it's the Bernie base that's doing an about-face when it's clearly everyone else in reaction to their favored non-Bernie saying a couple of nights ago that brokered conventions are Good, Actually?

washparkhorn · February 21, 2020

12 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

I'd bet on writer for Loony Tunes

Cheers.

bad_teammate · February 22, 2020

The current situation in a nutshell.

Mrs Whiggins · February 22, 2020

47 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

And that is my blindspot with Texas. That will not happen in the states where I work. If anything, the anger towards anything Trump is more worrisome here. How often do you see MAGA hats where you live, if I may ask? Daily?

I won't count the old guy that walks his dog every morning, so not daily. Weekly would be more accurate not including bumper stickers and yard signs.

burntorangebongos · February 22, 2020

3 hours ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Lulz. It's obvious that he's working on the assumption that Bernie will lock up the states he's leading and enter the convention with the most votes/delegates. The blind hatred of Bernie Bros is almost as insane as the Bernie Bros themselves

Well, it seems pretty obvious now that some of the Twitter Bernie Bros are Russian bots. I don't know what Bernie knew or when he knew it but it could be why he couldn't control his supporters, like Pete and them said he should be able to do. I hope we are fucking the Russian back hard in this cyber war. Fuck those assholes.

henrygandorf · February 22, 2020

49 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You don't have to answer like that.

without knowing hank's exact thoughts, i think he means it in a good way. like he'll answer that way if it helps whomever he's speaking to get more comfortable in their decision to vote bernie. there's a decent chunk that will actually be comforted by that thought, even though it could be seen as negative or even defeatist/counterproductive.

henrygandorf · February 22, 2020

2 hours ago, MidTexHorn said:

Yeah, this is my wife. Normally completely apolitical, but hates, despises, loathes, etc. everything about Trump. She is all in to beat him, but really knows almost nothing about his policies or about the policies of any of the Dems except in the most general sense. She's really enjoyed the Bloomberg ads and may end up voting for him. I'm trying to talk her out of it.

we live in such an odd time. i don't know if it's trump, or twitter, or 24 hour slanted news on multiple networks, but it wasn't always like this. the fact that people think about-

1. who they like and agree with and generally think is the "best" candidate or would make the "best" president

2. who is the most "electable" (vs someone they hate)

and that these two are just so often not the same person. it's insanity to me that so many people are willing to bypass any and all personal feelings, policy opinions, or just about anything, in order to support someone they're told is "electable" - when the notion itself is nearly impossible to project.

in a fictitious/crystal ball scenario, if there were 100mm people, and exactly half identified as a "democrat", and you had a magic pen where you could sign up to vote for someone under the conditions that (1) he/she would absolutely beat trump (it's guaranteed, because magic) and (2) they wouldn't find out who the person was until after they signed, how many dems would say fuck it and sign? half? 3/4? i bet the number is alarmingly high.

i'm not even sure i wouldn't sign it.

BradInATX · February 22, 2020

3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i know a lot of people out in the world were excited when he announced, but i felt like i didn't see a ton of it here. that's why i asked about it showing up here. i remember aqua being stoked and everyone else pretty meh or against it.

The Bernie crew is running out of things to be mad and feel disrespected about now that he's the frontrunner so now they're just fabricating hordes of Surly Bloomberg supporters out of thin air. We should probably just let it slide because if they don't get their daily dose of being the victim, I think they actually shrivel up and die.

GSU&UT · February 22, 2020

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't think that.

I think that if he does not get an outright majority of delegates, and we have to go to a brokered convention, there is a process that will determine whether he is popular enough to take the nomination, or, alternatively, if his failure to get a majority indicates that he is UNPOPULAR enough such that someone else should be the nominee. I haven't decided any of that -- the voters still need to speak, and if there isn't a majority, then the existing process needs to be implemented.

Bernie supporters, on the other hand, HAVE pre-determined their take -- if Bernie gets a plurality, and doesn't end up with the nomination going into the convention, they will NOT respect any outcome of the existing brokered convention process OTHER than a Bernie nomination. Bernie and his supporters knew what the process was before he even filed his paperwork to run....but NOW, now that it's possible he won't get an outright majority, well, if he doesn't win after a plurality, THE FIX IS IN!

That you can't see the difference between those perspectives is, umm, problematic.

I'm literally not talking about the convention, I'm talking about his strength in the general against Trump which you've written him off in just two states into this primary. You've gone on record saying that he is not popular enough to beat Trump, literally none of the candidates are any better than Bernie if you look at national polling.

Edited February 22, 2020 by GSU&UT

Dropout · February 22, 2020

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

"If he doesn’t get the nomination it’s bc the DNC stole it from him. He will get the most votes and delegates and it won’t be close."

Excellent attitude and approach. What if he gets MORE delegates than anyone else -- say, he ends up with 30%, and the next closest has 27%....then the next closest has 25%....Right there, we have 52% of the voters who picked "NOT Bernie." But I guess those votes don't count, right? Only the 30% that support your choice count. That's the way ALL of our elections work (except, of course, almost none of them do -- they go to a runoff, and it's not uncommon at all for the top vote-getter to lose the runoff). But yes, we understand -- if Bernie has even one delegate more than his next closest opponent, then any outcome that doesn't result in him getting the nomination is "THE DNC STOLE IT FROM HIM!"

"The most blatant form of voter suppression would be nullifying every state that has voted, the majority in favor of Sanders. Every vote casted would be rendered meaningless and everyone is supposed to be prepared to accept that. Such an obvious attempt at a power grab from all involved. Yet no one supporting another candidate cares. So excuse the Bros if we are prepared to do whatever we have to. We will."

Yep. If, say, 60-70% of the Democratic primary voters vote "not Bernie," voter suppression and "rendering every vote cast meaningless' would be....nominating the guy that 60-70% of the voters DIDN'T want. We absolutely hear and understand you. Believe me, we hear y'all loud and clear.

"By all means go along with your center moderate positions of fuck democracy."

I'm no Bloomberg fan, didn't want him anywhere near this race, so you can dispense with that straw man. But I find it FASCINATING that the "fuck democracy" is the position of "well, the majority of voters wanted someone other than the top vote-getter, who didn't get an outright majority of support....so let's use the brokered convention process, which has existed for a long-ass time, to try to find a candidate that the largest group of those delegates (you know, representatives of the voters -- we have a representative democracy) will support. Maybe that will be the top vote-getter, maybe it will be someone else. Let's use the process." Awesome. Yeah, I don't see why anyone is wary as hell of the Bernie Bros. Nope, no reason at all.

It won’t be close Chris. We all know that. The candidates know that. Does a runoff election in America usually involve another vote from the people? Any poll that shows a head to head shows Bernie winning.

You need a stat class? This has been covered Chris. There are 6 plus people still running. It would be pretty difficult for anyone to get the majority. Hence why none of them are trying to drop out.

It would be unprecedented for the leader in votes and delegates to not be the nominee. Provide me an example.

3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

what is happening?

So you choose to ignore it. I don’t blame you Henry. The position is pretty indefensible.

3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Totally normal and sane post.

I’ll let one of the OG Bros explain.

3 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

If I recall right, Bernie was for a brokered convention in 2016 when he was losing to Hillary, right? That didnt make him against democracy then nor anybody now.

He was for a brokered convention yes. At no point did he say the person with the most votes and delegates shouldn’t be the nominee. Stop equating these two things. Go to the convention make a deal do what you gotta do to be happy. Don’t steal an election.

henrygandorf · February 22, 2020

3 minutes ago, Dropout said:

So you choose to ignore it. I don’t blame you Henry. The position is pretty indefensible.

what are you talking about?

Dropout · February 22, 2020

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

what are you talking about?

When Pete goes on stage and says the person with the most votes and delegates shouldn’t necessarily be the nominee.

henrygandorf · February 22, 2020

4 minutes ago, Dropout said:

When Pete goes on stage and says the person with the most votes and delegates shouldn’t necessarily be the nominee.

and what about it?

Dropout · February 22, 2020

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

and what about it?

Why support someone that would rather take a shit on everyone’s vote? Isn’t a vote the foundation of this country?

henrygandorf · February 22, 2020

Just now, Dropout said:

Why support someone that would rather take a shit on everyone’s vote? Isn’t a vote the foundation of this country?

pete's taking a shit on everyone's vote?

Dropout · February 22, 2020

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

pete's taking a shit on everyone's vote?

Just say you dgaf if it gives your guy a shot. Save us both some time.

henrygandorf · February 22, 2020

5 minutes ago, Dropout said:

Just say you dgaf if it gives your guy a shot. Save us both some time.

i've never thought pete had a realistic shot. i've never said it once on this board or anywhere else.

if you're wondering why he's in favor of keeping the current rules of choosing a nominee, i don't know, you'd have to ask him. he's always been a big bernie sanders fan, maybe he started to feel this way in 2016.

washparkhorn · February 22, 2020

52 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I won't count the old guy that walks his dog every morning, so not daily. Weekly would be more accurate not including bumper stickers and yard signs.

That is what I am seeing in Southern California and Colorado, as well. But almost no bumper stickers or yard signs for any candidate. Thanks.

The enthusiasm for Trump is less apparent than it was in 2016. Trump rallies have a dedicated group of people of 5-10% who go to every event they can. Fascinating group of supporters.

https://www.openpolitics.com/links/its-kind-of-like-an-addiction-on-the-road-with-trumps-rally-diehards/

Spoiler

‘It’s Kind of Like an Addiction’: On the Road With Trump’s Rally Diehards

A small band of the president’s most devoted fans will do whatever it takes to attend his campaign rallies

Libby DePiero once drove her Ford Focus so far to attend a Trump campaign rally—about 1,000 miles from her home in Connecticut to Indiana—that when she lay in bed that night she thought the twitching in her driving leg was coming from an animal under the mattress.

The 64-year-old retiree, who prefers sparkly nail polish, leopard prints and selfies with Trump campaign officials, is almost always one of the first few people in line at the president’s campaign events, part of the self-described group of “Front Row Joes” who routinely travel to see the president perform. Several, like Ms. DePiero, have attended more than 50 Trump rallies.

She keeps going because she trusts only the president to deliver her the news. “How else would I know what’s going on?” she said.

Mr. Trump has hosted more than 550 ticketed campaign events since 2015, at least 70% of which include his trademark rallies, according to Republican officials. These rallies form the core of one of the most steadfast political movements in modern American political history, a dynamic that has reordered the Republican Party.

Randal Thom showing a ‘Front Row Joes’ bracelet and pin, as well as a Trump flag, in Cincinnati in late July.PHOTOS: LUKE SHARRETT FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Mr. Trump’s perpetual tour attracts a coterie of political pilgrims who travel across the country and encamp outside arenas for days at a time for the chance to stand in the front row and, for 90 minutes, cheer the man they say has changed the U.S. and, in many cases, their own lives. Somewhere between 5% to 10% of attendees have been to multiple events, the officials said.

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

To what lengths would you go to see a political candidate you really liked? Join the conversation below.

“You go to the rallies, and he basically tells you that you don’t have to put up with ‘the swamp’ and those kinds of people,” said Saundra Kiczenski, a 40-year-old Walmart worker from Michigan who has been to 29 rallies. “Because of him I decided not to pay for Obamacare, not pay the fine. And what happened? Nothing. Before, the quiet me would have paid the fine. But Donald Trump told me that we have a voice, and now I stand up for myself.”

The Trump rally die-hards—a few dozen men and women who have been to more than 10 rallies—are almost exclusively white. Many are recently retired with time on their hands and little to keep them tied to home. A handful never had children. Others are estranged from their families.

Several of those with jobs live paycheck to paycheck, but constantly offer strangers a cold beverage, sandwiches or their last cigarette.

Some rely on disability payments, like Cynthia Barten, or cut lawns in Missouri, like her husband, Ken Barten. Others sell secondhand items in Kentucky like Jon French, or find odd jobs such as clearing rocks from farmland in Minnesota, like Randal Thom. Kevin Steele quit his job and plans to finance his travels to Trump rallies with the remaining $120,000 from an inheritance.

The group includes Trump aficionados, who have spent decades keeping tabs on his history of political flirtations, tabloid melodrama and star turns on reality television. A surprising number voted for Barack Obama at least once, caught up in the Democrat’s charisma and fed up with Republicans over foreign adventurism and growing national debt.

Libby DePiero, a retiree from Connecticut, has attended more than 50 Trump rallies.

Rally regulars stay connected through Facebook and text messages, pinging one another to see who is attending the next rally, who can carpool and who wants to split a hotel room.

Ms. DePiero broke up a 700-mile drive to the Cincinnati rally on Aug. 1 by spending the night with Becky Gee, a northeast Ohio dairy farmer she met at a previous Trump rally. She stayed with Barbara Bienkowski in Maryland (they met at Trump Hotel in Washington earlier this year), on her way to the Greenville, N.C., rally on July 17 and stayed in Myrtle Beach, S.C., with Dale Ranney, another Front Row Joe, on the way home.

Two regular rallygoers have already married, and divorced.

All of them describe, in different ways, a euphoric flow of emotions between themselves and the president, a sort of adrenaline-fueled, psychic cleansing that follows 90 minutes of chanting and cheering with 15,000 other like-minded Trump junkies.

“Once you start going, it’s kind of like an addiction, honestly,” said April Owens, a 49-year-old financial manager in Kingsport, Tenn., who has been to 11 rallies. “I love the energy. I wouldn’t stand in line for 26 hours to see any rock band. He’s the only person I would do this for, and I’ll be here as many times as I can.”

For many Front Row Joes, the Trump era marks their political awakening. Among the first Americans to identify the resonance and endurance of Mr. Trump’s political appeal, they are reveling in the victory. Like Mr. Trump on stage, each recounts the Election Night triumph without any prompting.

In Orlando, Fla., Trump fans sat in a field adjacent to Amway Center in June, about to get soaked by the second downpour in as many days. Still, they wore sunglasses and smiles as outdoor speakers pumped out “Sweet Home Alabama” and “Hurts So Good.” Head shakes and patronizing laughs greeted questions about which Democrat might beat Mr. Trump.

President Trump arriving at a rally in Manchester, N.H., in mid-August. PHOTO: CHERYL SENTER FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Michael Telesca, a middle-school teacher at the front of the line in Greenville, compared the experience to following Bruce Springsteen.

“You come to the show, and you know exactly what you’re going to get—all of the hits and maybe a few surprises, too,” said Mr. Telesca, whose bushy brown hair is graying at the temples.

The surprise in Greenville wasn’t from Mr. Trump, but the crowd as it debuted a “send her back” chant. The chant erupted as Mr. Trump was criticizing Rep. Ilhan Omar (D., Minn.). Three days earlier, Mr. Trump had tweeted that Ms. Omar and three other liberal congresswomen, all women of color, should “go back” to unspecified countries. The four women are American citizens and three of them were born in the U.S.

Before the rally, more than a dozen supporters said they would never use that racist language to denounce minorities. Inside Williams Arena, many participated in the chant that mirrored it. “It was like a tornado when ‘send her back’ started. I was looking around and people were loving it,” Ms. DePiero said.

The regulars who arrived early at rallies—often before campaign officials or local law enforcement—hurried to set up tents and organize their belongings. The Bartens, who drove their Dodge minivan seven hours from St. Louis to be first in line in Cincinnati, unfolded a table and set down a deep-cycle military battery, a camp stove for turkey melts, a string of LED festoon lights and a half-empty pack of Edgefield cigarettes.

They mingled until doors opened, then rushed to the front row on the arena floor. But not necessarily center-stage.

Libby DePiero and husband, Brian, head to the VIP section of President Trump’s campaign event at the SNHU Arena in Manchester, N.H. PHOTO: CHERYL SENTER FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Some, like, Shane Doyle, prefer the side where Mr. Trump first appears from behind the curtains. “Back in the primary, I used to like being the first one when he came out, because he would sign all my stuff,” said Mr. Doyle, a 24-year-old machinist from Buffalo, N.Y.

Just before midnight on the eve of the Cincinnati rally, about two dozen fans lounged in lawn chairs or leaned on metal bike racks, scrolling through their phones and sipping from cans of Coors Light. A soft brown blanket covered Ms. Barten and her 12-year-old granddaughter, who slept sitting up in her camp chair.

The 57-year-old Air Force veteran’s disability check is reduced by $5 every month by an automatic donation to the Trump campaign.

“We’re not rich by any means,” Ms. Barten said. “But I’ll tell you what: When we’re rich in our hearts with our country and our president, we’re richer than anybody.”

Dropout · February 22, 2020

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

i've never thought pete had a realistic shot. i've never said it once on this board or anywhere else.

if you're wondering why he's in favor of keeping the current rules of choosing a nominee, i don't know, you'd have to ask him. he's always been a big bernie sanders fan, maybe he started to feel this way in 2016.

Enjoy your pretzel

burntorangebongos · February 22, 2020

No, Bernie was for it and now he is against a brokered convention. Stop telling me what I'm equating. That is what I remember and still, I say so how does that make what anyone is doing now against democracy?

And who is Chris? Are you Doxxing Brisket or something?

Bullneck · February 22, 2020

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

Cheers.

"I welcome their hated" was first spoken by FDR.

henrygandorf · February 22, 2020

3 minutes ago, Dropout said:

Enjoy your pretzel

thanks, have a great weekend!

actually, dropout, while i have you here, i have a question too.

a couple months ago, there was a conversation (prob on this thread) about potential running mates. and someone brought up the possibility of bernie choosing klobuchar. and a few posts later, a bernie supporter said that a pick like that, so contrary to bernie's policies, would make them no longer support bernie at all.

it wasn't bt and i'm pretty sure it wasn't washpark, but i can't remember who it was. was it you? i have no follow up, i was just wondering and couldn't remember. and if anyone else remembers, it's been bugging me. i typically remember stupid shit like that.

RDCanecutter · February 22, 2020

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

They loved me on site visits. "Hijo de puta", they called me. Means "Man of good breeding".

I got called "Patagon", which I am, plus "Pocho", which I guess I kinda super-duper am if you think about it.

Young Daddy Canecutter looked like Che minus the beret, but that's the Bog Irish Mammoth Hunter coming through in both.

burntorangebongos · February 22, 2020

4 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

"I welcome their hated" was first spoken by FDR.

Well, Bernie wrote the line for him. hey oh

Dropout · February 22, 2020

6 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

No, Bernie was for it and now he is against a brokered convention. Stop telling me what I'm equating. That is what I remember and still, I say so how does that make what anyone is doing now against democracy?

And who is Chris? Are you Doxxing Brisket or something?

Should you go to a brokered convention if no one has a majority?

Should the person with the most delegates be the nominee?

Is this the same question?

Yes I’m a Bro. We doxx. Brisket is Chris Matthews everyone.

Dropout · February 22, 2020

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

thanks, have a great weekend!

actually, dropout, while i have you here, i have a question too.

a couple months ago, there was a conversation (prob on this thread) about potential running mates. and someone brought up the possibility of bernie choosing klobuchar. and a few posts later, a bernie supporter said that a pick like that, so contrary to bernie's policies, would make them no longer support bernie at all.

it wasn't bt and i'm pretty sure it wasn't washpark, but i can't remember who it was. was it you? i have no follow up, i was just wondering and couldn't remember. and if anyone else remembers, it's been bugging me. i typically remember stupid shit like that.

No bud not me. I have my preferences but really do not care too much. Sorry to disappoint. Just returning the favor I suppose. Enjoy your weekend as well.

henrygandorf · February 22, 2020

damn.

burntorangebongos · February 22, 2020

So when Hillary had the most delegates back then, why did he want a brokered convention? He is in everyone's position last time, so it is only okay when he does it?

Seriously, I'm sorry if I am not catching some nuance but we are saying the same thing. He had the same position as everyone last time when Hillary had more going in. So how you turn that into now everyone is shitting on democracy is bizarre.

Dropout · February 22, 2020

Just now, burntorangebongos said:

So when Hillary had the most delegates back then, why did he want a brokered convention? He is in everyone's position last time, so it is only okay when he does it?

Seriously, I'm sorry if I am not catching some nuance but we are saying the same thing. He had the same position as everyone last time when Hillary had more going in. So how you turn that into now everyone is shitting on democracy is bizarre.

He wanted a brokered convention to ask for some changes within the party. Like no superdelegates on the first ballot. Otherwise he’d be behind 500 delegates right now and everyone would say look Bernie has no shot. Then voters would actually think that.

He never said or insinuated that the person that lost the actual vote should be the nominee. This is what everyone on that stage agreed to at the last debate tho.

Not trying to tell you what you’re equating. I simply believe there is a significant difference.

GSU&UT · February 22, 2020

4 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

So when Hillary had the most delegates back then, why did he want a brokered convention? He is in everyone's position last time, so it is only okay when he does it?

Seriously, I'm sorry if I am not catching some nuance but we are saying the same thing. He had the same position as everyone last time when Hillary had more going in. So how you turn that into now everyone is shitting on democracy is bizarre.

He literally did it to try and reform the rules knowing he full well wouldn't get the nomination. Do you remember what came out of the convention in 2016?

Hank Scorpio · February 22, 2020

Nodding my head so hard that I pass out

bad_teammate · February 22, 2020

31 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

He had the same position as everyone last time when Hillary had more going in.

In 2016, superdelegates were voters in the first round same as pledged delegates.

In fact, that particular Sanders campaign gambit started in early May, a full month before California, the #1 delegate-rich state which was a June primary in 2016.

Not really the same as what's going on now. Not completely opposite or anything, but there are differences.

28 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Nodding my head so hard that I pass out

Hell yes.

troph · February 22, 2020

Semi older article .... but this strikes me why I like Warren over Sanders:

If Warren wanted to define herself in opposition to Sanders, she wouldn’t need to tie herself in knots. Where Sanders talks about revolution, her description of the American economy amounts to a restoration. She wants to return to another era, when the economy (and government) was less captured by Big Business. Her scourge is corruption, and embedded in her incessant denunciations of it is the hope that the system can be salvaged by extrication of that tumor. Where socialism imagines greater concentrations of power—greater state planning, greater public provisioning of goods—her vision ultimately points in the direction of a more decentralized, more competitive economy. Sanders’s keyword is equality; her best speeches have extolled liberty.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/differences-between-warren-and-sanders-matter/605971/

washparkhorn · February 22, 2020

Flashback - Just a reminder about the "liberalness" of Obama from 2008 race:

"In 2007, Obama's composite liberal score of 95.5 was the highest in the Senate. Rounding out the top five most liberal senators last year were Sens. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I., with a composite liberal score of 94.3; Joseph Biden, D-Del., with a 94.2; Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., with a 93.7; and Robert Menendez, D-N.J., with a 92.8."

His opponent - "Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., the other front-runner in the Democratic presidential race, also shifted to the left last year. She ranked as the 16th-most-liberal senator in the 2007 ratings."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2008/01/31/obama-most-liberal-senator-2007

Our Washington DC press has no journalistic integrity. Never has.

Edited February 22, 2020 by washparkhorn

bad_teammate · February 22, 2020

Her scourge is corruption... the influence of money in politics...

dark money Super PACs created to elect candidates...

elfenix · February 22, 2020

B_t is definitely a Russian plant. I assume compromised while working for Conoco on Polar Lights.

B_t, blink twice if they have kompromat of a financial nature, three times if the kompromat is about sexy time

bad_teammate · February 22, 2020

Remember Spies Like Us? I was in the tent that Vanessa Angel was leaving.

Hugo Stiglitz · February 22, 2020

Glad to see nothing has changed since 2016

burntorangebongos · February 22, 2020

He is interesting to waste his Russian bot time here.

JK. Bernie has been taking "dark money" from the Sunshine or Sunrise young peeps and his Revolution Movement foundation or whatever non-profit that basically operates as a PAC. So Liz got off her high horse and said, "Fuck yeah, give me some of that sweet free lettuce. I am a slut for dark money like Bernie too."

Sad trombone that they both have to work the corner for the monay.

Bama Chick · February 22, 2020

Listen, I don’t begrudge Liz for finally giving in but can she at least not completely lie her face off about it?

Beto hasn’t taken PAC money for over six years. He got shafted from a House committee assignment that Representatives from El Paso always get because of that.

Just tell the truth - “I’m tired of playing by rules no one else is.”

burntorangebongos · February 22, 2020

It is like she isn't counting him as a candidate? Liz has her blind spots, no doubt.

I think she is employing tactics that work but erode her integrity. She needs to stop before it consumes it completely.

Hey, she is living to fight another day, but you are right, it matters how you get there and Liz has got to see the full picture before saying these sort of things.

The more I watch this, the more I think the remaining candidates? But that isn't how I would take the question. Liz blew it.

Edited February 22, 2020 by burntorangebongos

bad_teammate · February 22, 2020

Comparing the advocacy groups with PACs that endorsed Bernie to PACs that only came to exist to gather money for ads for a candidate is intellectually dishonest.

If you actually care about campaign finance reform the distinction is obvious.

burntorangebongos · February 22, 2020

Are you talking about his non-profit? I agree that advocacy groups are different. I think Liz needs to let advocacy groups and Sunshine sorts provide like they do to Bernie. What is good for the gander is good for the golden goose who is way more talented and palatable.

troph · February 22, 2020

Comparing the advocacy groups with PACs that endorsed Bernie to PACs that only came to exist to gather money for ads for a candidate is intellectually dishonest.

If you actually care about campaign finance reform the distinction is obvious.

Deaf ears there sport. The worst.

Mrs Whiggins · February 22, 2020

Warren is better served when she focuses on attacking Trump and his policy. @burntorangebongos point regarding tactics is valid valid valid.

I am having trouble getting through this month-- the highs, the lows, all discombobulated with the news cycle. Noticed that today was Pulitzer prize winning poet Edna St. Vincent Millay's birthday and while I prefer some of her other lines, today this one seems apt:

“It's not true that life is one damn thing after another; it's one damn thing over and over.”

GSU&UT · February 22, 2020

25 minutes ago, troph said:

Deaf ears there sport. The worst.

Please tell me how they're the exact same.

https://readsludge.com/2020/02/10/fact-check-does-bernie-sanders-get-support-from-big-money-super-pacs/

troph · February 22, 2020

Please tell me how they're the exact same.
https://readsludge.com/2020/02/10/fact-check-does-bernie-sanders-get-support-from-big-money-super-pacs/

I’m calling out his banter in other threads then he turns around and wants to argue substance. He’s here simply to win arguments, and for no other reason. That’s a sport. This shouldn’t a sport. The worst.

Hank Kingsley · February 22, 2020

9 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Listen, I don’t begrudge Liz for finally giving in but can she at least not completely lie her face off about it?

Beto hasn’t taken PAC money for over six years. He got shafted from a House committee assignment that Representatives from El Paso always get because of that.

Just tell the truth - “I’m tired of playing by rules no one else is.”

You mean "I'm tired of playing by the specific rules I designed to kneecap other candidates, and since they're not following my orders I will break my own rules."

bad_teammate · February 22, 2020

I'm just here to banter and win arguments?

That's not ALL of it, of course, I've got plenty of sincere effortposts to my name, but yeah I enjoy the sparring and things are kind of working out well in favor of the candidate I have emotionally invested in and not for the candidates many of you have invested in. (And, in a larger sense, the movement I'm invested in is doing well against movements many of y'all are invested in.)

On the issue of outside spending, though... I'm just right.

Bernie's support is grassroots, working class, young, and diverse. Bernie's outside spending is tens of thousands spent on some radio ads, some Facebook ads, t-shirts, and food/lodging/travel for people who want to travel to a different state to canvas.

Joe and Liz and Pete, on the other hand, have tapped rich white people to raise millions to spend on radio, Facebook, and TV ads.

Which is fine and legal. Go for it. But if you honestly want to try to lump those two sets of things in together and get upset when someone points out that they're actually very different you're in for a long(er) and bumpy(ier) ride.

“None of that money went to slick TV ad makers, and none of it came from secretive right-wing billionaires, unlike the enormous amounts of cash pushed into Super PAC’s on behalf of corrupt, fossil fuel-funded politicians,” he (Stephen O’Hanlon, communications director of the youth-led climate group the Sunrise Movement) said. “Our grassroots-funded and entirely youth-run operation just exists to help young people knock on doors, make calls, distribute Green New Deal campaign literature, and send texts to boost our candidates nationwide who will fight for our generation.”

and

Nailah Summers, communications director of the Dream Defenders, told Sludge about the group’s super PAC’s organizing efforts.

“We’re knocking doors, phone banking, throwing events in communities all over Florida,” she said. “One of our organizers is from Sanford, Florida and he’s putting together a basketball tournament called ‘Ballin’ for Bernie’ there. We’re throwing events on campuses at HBCUs and most of the major colleges in Florida. We’re sending a bus of our members to canvass for Bernie in South Carolina ahead of their primary.”

“We are an organization made up of young, working-class people of color,” Summers continued. “Our organization is run by young black women. We are immigrants and people affected by the criminal justice system. Many of us don’t have insurance. We’ve got queer, gender-non-conforming and trans members. We’ve got members taking care of their aging family members. We’ve got people in our organization working 2 and 3 jobs. We live in superfund sites. We’re pretty much all drowning in student debt. Our lives are deeply, deeply affected by who wins this election. We are fighting for our safety, for our livelihoods, for the families we represent. We are keenly aware of what the stakes are in this election. So no, it isn’t fair to lump us in with the likes of Wall Street or billionaires who want to maintain the status quo. It’s because of the status quo that we’re in this mess and we have a vested interest in dismantling it.”

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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