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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, troph said:


You said the establishment is in the center. The bills passed by the house in the last 18 months don’t support that unless you think the DSA is center left, it’s far left. Dems are farther left than 20 years ago, thankfully.

I think since Reagan the Dems have done a very poor job of actually helping material interests of working people minus a few key pieces of legislation. For as much credit as we can give Nancy pelosi she literally will not even bring a Medicare for all bill to have even a floor vote, not try to pass it in the house even.

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6th Street

6th Street 6390

Posted
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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Why are you giving this advice about the guy who won the first two votes and looks to be winning the third? Maybe he knows what he's doing? lol

Beating up on a bunch of cretins like Biden and Warren is irrelevant on the national stage. It's like bragging about winning preseason games. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13191

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8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

No, just those voters who actually support the party apparatus and its leadership. That does not include most voters who vote for Democratic candidates.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I genuinely dont know what you mean.

- So he's NOT talking about anyone who is voting for candidates.
- He IS talking about voters who like the party apparatus and his leadership but don't vote.

?

Again, I'm sorry if I'm missing something. I really don't know.

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troph

troph 24781

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I think since Reagan the Dems have done a very poor job of actually helping material interests of working people minus a few key pieces of legislation. For as much credit as we can give Nancy pelosi she literally will not even bring a Medicare for all bill to have even a floor vote, not try to pass it in the house even.

And how often have the Democrats had any real power during that stretch? Obama first two years, that’s it. Sanders won’t get anything done under the same circumstances.

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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1 minute ago, troph said:

And how often have the Democrats had any real power during that stretch? Obama first two years, that’s it. Sanders won’t get anything done under the same circumstances.

You could say the same for literally all the other candidates though. I've posted this thought several times but this is about a movement to push the party back to it being closer to FDR and to give hopefully my daughter's generation hope that someday she won't have to worry about being bankrupted by medical bill, taking out tens of thousands of dollars in student loans or hoping we can afford to save up that kind of money, as well as taking extreme steps to address climate change. If he fails it every single thing at the very least you will see that the appetite is there among the voters.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13191

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Bernie's goal is to start a larger movement of left-progressive power to push over time.

Name the destination and build the trains and tracks to get there.

A bigger test for Bernie's case is, in my mind, not whether or not he immediately gets everything he wants, but does he follow through on his promise to be the organizer-in-chief and actually create a nationwide infrastructure of distributed left-progressive power that will outlast his career and life.

Bernie as a central power personality (like Obama) doesn't interest me.

Bernie as the catalyst for a movement much bigger than him interests me greatly.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

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And how power controls policy:

https://www.demos.org/research/stacked-deck-how-dominance-politics-affluent-business-undermines-economic-mobility-america

Quote

f there is one idea that nearly all Americans can agree on, it is that everyone should have a chance to improve themselves and do better in life. At the same time, Americans strongly believe in political equality—the view that civic life should be a level playing field and everyone should have a voice in the decisions that affect their lives. 

Yet today, there is wide recognition that America is not living up to either of these cornerstone ideals. A host of indicators show that the middle class is struggling—and worse, shrinking—and that upward mobility is elusive for many Americans. Meanwhile, evidence abounds that the U.S. political system is increasingly dominated by wealthy interests, and strong majorities of the public believe—rightly—that the deck is stacked against ordinary voters.

 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

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Power part 2:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B

Each of four theoretical traditions in the study of American politics—which can be characterized as theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy, Economic-Elite Domination, and two types of interest-group pluralism, Majoritarian Pluralism and Biased Pluralism—offers different predictions about which sets of actors have how much influence over public policy: average citizens; economic elites; and organized interest groups, mass-based or business-oriented.

A great deal of empirical research speaks to the policy influence of one or another set of actors, but until recently it has not been possible to test these contrasting theoretical predictions against each other within a single statistical model. We report on an effort to do so, using a unique data set that includes measures of the key variables for 1,779 policy issues.

Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism.

The last paragraph is the lede - economic-elite domination of policy.

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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Bernie is going straight to the heart of the most important economic issue facing Americans (healthcare).  He's also not adverse to science and trying to solve environmental issues and climate change induced change. I think the Dems need to decide whether the most appropriate long term approach is to develop a sense of what issues and ideas are important, and pushing those issues and ideas.

I sure as fuck wish Bernie had a more "establishment" resume and had a message that was a bit more "capitalism is an engine we need to keep but we need to put breaks on it sometime", but you can't always get what you want.  If the Republican Party stands for nothing, I would prefer the Dem Party to set itself a bit apart and stand for something.  

I still think Bernie is a losing strategy short term but I'm starting to think that pushing out Bloomberg and allowing Bernie to run may not be bad in the long run. 

I'm thinking it is about time for all the suburban newbies in Congress who won in 2018 to start realizing that they need to start pushing healthcare and paid leave and all the other shit that got them their seats and not worrying about how they need an establishment figure to lead the ticket.  They need whoever leads the ticket to stand for something.  And it needs to be standing for some ideas, and not just against the Dotard. 

 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

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As the economic system and policy decisions create fewer winners, the dominance of the status quo narrative weakens. The institutions attempting to prop up the status quo lose influence.

And new institutions emerge. Democratic Party institutions would be well served to increase connections and representation of those who suffer as a result of this economic system. If they resist too long, they will become irrelevant. Witness the loss of power by those opposing Bernie Sanders. 

The Democratic institutions have a history premised on helping people, not power.  It is probably time to return to those roots and drag their corporate clients into the reality of life in the United States for a majority of its people. The people who are hurting most under Trump have come together under Sanders. Democratic institutions would be wise to learn why they have become tone-deaf. 

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18850

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15 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

As the economic system and policy decisions create fewer winners, the dominance of the status quo narrative weakens. The institutions attempting to prop up the status quo lose influence.

And new institutions emerge. Democratic Party institutions would be well served to increase connections and representation of those who suffer as a result of this economic system. If they resist too long, they will become irrelevant. Witness the loss of power by those opposing Bernie Sanders. 

The Democratic institutions have a history premised on helping people, not power.  It is probably time to return to those roots and drag their corporate clients into the reality of life in the United States for a majority of its people. The people who are hurting most under Trump have come together under Sanders. Democratic institutions would be wise to learn why they have become tone-deaf. 

 

What would be the message if Bernie is the nominee and loses bigly?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18850

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2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I suppose the message would be Bernie was the nominee and lost bigly.

What would the message be if Bernie is the nominee and wins bigly?

That this country has moved further to the left than anyone thought possible.

If he loses, the message will be that progressive candidates are losers on a national level.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
Just now, David Dennison said:

That this country has moved further to the left than anyone thought possible.

If he loses, the message will be that progressive candidates are losers on a national level.

Perhaps. For 40 years the public has elected the president who they would rather have a beer with. Personally I would rather have a beer with Bernie than president shitstain.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

That this country has moved further to the left than anyone thought possible.

If he loses, the message will be that progressive candidates are losers on a national level.

New Deal economic policy was the status quo, before the extreme lurch rightwards. 

Political power in this nation has been controlled by those who own the nation (the opulence of the minority). We have seen variations on that truism. FDR recognized citizens were not willing to tolerate the status quo, so he compromised. FDR did not remove power from the powerful, but forced them into a social contract with the 99% because, without them, the wealthy would lose power and wealth through war or internal revolution.

That is not an unusual and can provide helpful useful avenues for compromise. It will happen again. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18850

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8 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Perhaps. For 40 years the public has elected the president who they would rather have a beer with. Personally I would rather have a beer with Bernie than president shitstain.

Well, I voted for him because I want to see what happened when an unabashed left wing candidate takes on the Republican Party.

I am not optimistic for the general if he is the nominee, so I'll be very pleased if he wins.

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

LOL. Predictit running "which candidate will come in 2nd place" markets now.

You know Ana you put me up on the candidate betting markets long ago. I’m a gambler. Sick to my stomach not putting my money where my mouth was when Bernie was at .11 or so.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23463

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Just now, Dropout said:

You know Ana you put me up on the candidate betting markets long ago. I’m a gambler. Sick to my stomach not putting my money where my mouth was when Bernie was at .11 or so.

Degenerates unite.  I must admit though, I am on the NO side with Bernie.  Too far upside down at this point to bail on the market.  I thought Warren was going to lock this thing up. 

 

For the record, I am also heavily on D to win the WH.

 

I also backed the truck up on Clinton to beat Trump.

 

There is a pattern. 

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Degenerates unite.  I must admit though, I am on the NO side with Bernie.  Too far upside down at this point to bail on the market.  I thought Warren was going to lock this thing up. 

 

For the record, I am also heavily on D to win the WH.

 

I also backed the truck up on Clinton to beat Trump.

 

There is a pattern. 

Degens always unite. Here’s to you getting it all back.

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18216

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2 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Absolutely correct.

I’m exhausted by Dems bitching and moaning that other people won’t vote for [insert candidate name here].  Just vote for the Dem candidate.  If everyone follows that simple rule, we’ll be fine.  There’s no need to panic over some meta mind-reading exercise.  

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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1 minute ago, Message Board User said:

Dude, you are OBLIGATED to vote for Bernie.  And if you don't, anything and everything that happens to this country is ON YOU!

Am I taking crazy pills? Isn't this what "Bernie Bros' were constantly lectured about since Trump won because they didn't show up to vote for Hillary?

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troph

troph 24781

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Bernie Bros are tremendous cockfags, but if you don’t vote for Sanders we’re done as a republic.

Agreed we have to vote for Bernie, but we got trump because they sat out last time around. No love lost for the bros, they are terribly in the way of Sanders. Self described insulting assholes, screaming for the sport of it, willing to hurt people for a laugh, don’t like them, don’t need them, they are a major liability and will only further polarize discourse. But yes vote for the dem no matter what.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23463

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, troph said:


Agreed but we got trump because they sat out last time around.

Trump won because granny didn’t bother courting the blue wall and was a terrible candidate. The dnc worked against Bernie, but Russia. 
 

The reality is that our two party system is broken and doesn’t represent America. 

Edited by Anastasis
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F250

F250 28764

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Posted

The Tío Bernie thing is catching on. Normally when a white person gets that designation it means they are part of the tribe and an attack on Tío is an attack on the tribe. It's pretty impressive to see how Bernie pulled this off while even Castro and pandering Beto couldn't, authenticity matters.

 

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troph

troph 24781

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Posted
Trump won because granny didn’t bother courting the blue wall and was a terrible candidate. The dnc worked against Bernie, but Russia. 
 
The reality is that our two party system is broken and doesn’t represent America. 

And 10-12% of Sanders supporters VOTED FOR TRUMP.
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Dropout

Dropout 355

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Posted
12 minutes ago, troph said:


Agreed but we got trump because they sat out last time around. No love lost for the bros, they are terribly in the way of Sanders. Self described insulting assholes, screaming for the sport of it, willing to hurt people for a laugh, don’t like them, don’t need them, they are a major liability and will only further polarize discourse. But yes vote for the dem no matter what.

I’m just curious defender of trans rights. You agree with a poster calling others “cockfags” and I’m supposed to take you seriously?

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troph

troph 24781

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So we got assholes cockfags and already questioning whether to vote against Trump in the last few posts.
Tell me again about Bernie Bros. 

Guaranteed more people will hold their nose and vote for Bernie than the Bernie bros that held their nose and sat out or said screw it I’m pulling the lever for trump.

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troph

troph 24781

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Posted
I’m just curious defender of trans rights. You agree with a poster calling others “cockfags” and I’m supposed to take you seriously?

I don’t. I think name calling is wrong.

 

I agreed with the substance of his post - vote for Bernie even while Bernie bros scream holy hell get in the way and make it almost impossible to support him all the while seeing the reality that we have trump because of Bernie bros.

 

name calling though? No.

 

Literally dozens if not over a hundred posters here say the same thing, y’all are a liability to the cause but you flat out can’t hear it.

 

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F250

F250 28764

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I like how this absolves Bernie and his Bros for being terrible candidate.  It’s not their fault, it’s everyone else’s.

Jesus.

Let it go.

Bernie Bros primarily exist on the internet, people on the internet shouldn't upset you unless you are Derka. Never go full Derka.

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