2020 Democratic Nominee

[6th Street 6,432]

What would be your advice to someone who recently graduated? Don't make any student loan payments and instead go out and do a bunch of blow and buy a new Tesla because a bailout is coming? 

[workswithseed 2,112]

1 hour ago, Dirk X West said:

Can you remind us again which party has spent the better part of the last 4 decades trying to convince the general populace that government in all forms is inherently evil?

Oh, is that why most here don't trust Trump? 

Fuck, I'd love his power to be weakened. It's the reason that it's awesome that Congress and the courts are always on his ass. 

[hayden_horn 11,362]

1 minute ago, 6th Street said:

What would be your advice to someone who recently graduated? Don't make any student loan payments and instead go out and do a bunch of blow and buy a new Tesla because a bailout is coming? 

yeah, but people don't do shit like that. sure, some people are irresponsible, but most are not. this is akin to the myth of the snap customer at the grocery store with the newest iphone and a luxury vehicle buying steak and lobster. this is simply not a thing.

[workswithseed 2,112]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

yeah, but people don't do shit like that. sure, some people are irresponsible, but most are not. this is akin to the myth of the snap customer at the grocery store with the newest iphone and a luxury vehicle buying steak and lobster. this is simply not a thing.

And most rich kids keep their families money for thier kids and not spend it all.

[hayden_horn 11,362]

wat

[workswithseed 2,112]

5 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

wat

If people have the chance to do blow and fuck scrippers, they'll do it. 

What is the incentive to save?

Edited February 24, 2020 by workswithseed

[wildcat09 29,355]

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

You want Bernie to win. You're commentary on what's "smart" for Warren is based on whatever helps Bernie. That's fine, but it's not correct.  

In order for Warren to actually win, she has to present herself as the option for people who don't want Bernie. And that only happens if she criticizes him and explains why she is different/better. 

 

...what?

If they already don't like Bernie, what good does attacking Bernie do for her? If she's trying to sell herself as the best choice for people who don't want Bernie, she needs to knock out her competition for the voters who don't like Bernie.

[henrygandorf 29,194]

15 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

What would be your advice to someone who recently graduated? Don't make any student loan payments and instead go out and do a bunch of blow and buy a new Tesla because a bailout is coming? 

you should do blow and buy teslas regardless of potential policy reform.

keep your eye on the ball here.

[6th Street 6,432]

 

10 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, but people don't do shit like that. sure, some people are irresponsible, but most are not. this is akin to the myth of the snap customer at the grocery store with the newest iphone and a luxury vehicle buying steak and lobster. this is simply not a thing.

So at the very least - it would be optimal for recent grads to make the minimum payment (if any) because a bailout is around the corner.  In which case it is better to invest those funds in a nice low-fee index fund rather than de-lever. 

[Anastasis 23,479]

Just now, 6th Street said:

So at the very least - it would be optimal for recent grads to make the minimum payment (if any) because a bailout is around the corner.  In which case it is better to invest those funds in a nice low-fee index fund rather than de-lever. 

I think that it should depend on your interest rate.  I have a consolidation batch @ 1.625% that I can't bring myself to pay off, no matter what is happening with loan forgiveness. 

[6th Street 6,432]

Just now, Anastasis said:

I think that it should depend on your interest rate.  I have a consolidation batch @ 1.625% that I can't bring myself to pay off, no matter what is happening with loan forgiveness. 

That's pretty much free money then - I rmr taking out graduate plus loans at 8.5% back in '06-07 ish. Paid that mothafucka off pretty quick after it went into repayment

[Rougarou 594]

I, for one, am looking forward to having my masters degree debt paid off for me. Go, Bern, Go!

[wildcat09 29,355]

I'm sure boomers looking to sell the house I would buy if my student loans were paid off would like for my loans to be paid off.

[Celery Man 20,974]

it's pretty cool that this is all coming out of Aqua Buddha's taxes

[Brisketexan 105,161]

I'm sure boomers looking to sell the house I would buy if my student loans were paid off would like for my loans to be paid off.

This. If consumer spending and large purchases are the fuel for our economy, and we’ve created a huge demographic that SHOULD be your big consumers, but can’t be, then we’ve created an economic weakness.

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

18 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

 

So at the very least - it would be optimal for recent grads to make the minimum payment (if any) because a bailout is around the corner.  In which case it is better to invest those funds in a nice low-fee index fund rather than de-lever. 

Well yeah.  Lost in the "they borrow more now" rhetoric is the fact that 90s-early 2000s student loans had much higher interest rates.  If I had new-ish student loans, I'd sit on the minimum forever regardless.  Especially if I got them consolidated in one of the millennial era sweet spots where rates were 4% and below.

Is Bernie bailing out PLUS loans too? 

[gsoda3 3,264]

that shirtless bernie video carousing with russians... he was already old in 1988.

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

14 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm sure boomers looking to sell the house I would buy if my student loans were paid off would like for my loans to be paid off.

Why do they need to wait for you personally?  Home values are at all time highs in most desirable places.  They could just sell now to someone else for 5 times what they paid and move to Florida with the rest of the boomers.  Where are you looking to purchase a home that houses are sitting on the market waiting for buyers?

The average student loan debt is $37k.  The median home price in Austin is $335k.  Even if you had massive grad school debt and owed $100k, you still can't afford that median house once that debt is paid off.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This. If consumer spending and large purchases are the fuel for our economy, and we’ve created a huge demographic that SHOULD be your big consumers, but can’t be, then we’ve created an economic weakness.

Why don't they just get jobs? Bootstraps and that.

[bad_teammate 13,218]

24 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

I, for one, am looking forward to having my masters degree debt paid off for me. Go, Bern, Go!

Hopefully it's in something useful like Mediterranean Art Therapy. I wouldn't want all of the money we're going to forcibly take from Aqua Buddha to go to waste.

[wildcat09 29,355]

5 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Well yeah.  Lost in the "they borrow more now" rhetoric is the fact that 90s-early 2000s student loans had much higher interest rates.  If I had new-ish student loans, I'd sit on the minimum forever regardless.  Especially if I got them consolidated in one of the millennial era sweet spots where rates were 4% and below.

Is Bernie bailing out PLUS loans too? 

https://www.savingforcollege.com/article/historical-federal-student-interest-rates-and-fees

2012-2013	Fixed	3.40%	6.80%
2011-2012	Fixed	3.40%	6.80%
2010-2011	Fixed	4.50%	6.80%
2009-2010	Fixed	5.60%	6.80%
2008-2009	Fixed	6.00%	6.80%
2007-2008	Fixed	6.80%	6.80%
2006-2007	Fixed	6.80%	6.80%

 

No millennials took out loans at 4%. 

[Brisketexan 105,161]

Why do they need to wait for you personally?  Home values are at all time highs in most desirable places.  They could just sell now to someone else for 5 times what they paid and move to Florida with the rest of the boomers.  Where are you looking to purchase a home that houses are sitting on the market waiting for buyers?
The average student loan debt is $37k.  The median home price in Austin is $335k.  Even if you had massive grad school debt and owed $100k, you still can't afford that median house once that debt is paid off.

The hit on housing isn’t here yet. Boomers are mostly still in their homes. But that day is coming. And look at lower cost consumer goods, like cars. There’s no question that folks with high student debt are not making as many big purchases.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The hit on housing isn’t here yet. Boomers are mostly still in their homes.

Won't hurt boomers, though. They'll die in those houses & it will be their last kick in the nuts to the economy.

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

https://www.savingforcollege.com/article/historical-federal-student-interest-rates-and-fees

2012-2013	Fixed	3.40%	6.80%
2011-2012	Fixed	3.40%	6.80%
2010-2011	Fixed	4.50%	6.80%
2009-2010	Fixed	5.60%	6.80%
2008-2009	Fixed	6.00%	6.80%
2007-2008	Fixed	6.80%	6.80%
2006-2007	Fixed	6.80%	6.80%

 

No millennials took out loans at 4%. 

Consolidation rates have consistently been low for millennials.  Gen Xers who consolidated early were completely fucked on rates.  Gen X were also forced to consolidate early because they also dealt with variable rates on existing loans.  

[David Dennison 18,938]

5 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Consolidation rates have consistently been low for millennials.  Gen Xers who consolidated early were completely fucked on rates.  Gen X were also forced to consolidate early because they also dealt with variable rates on existing loans.  

6.85% for this Gen Xer.

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The hit on housing isn’t here yet. Boomers are mostly still in their homes. But that day is coming. And look at lower cost consumer goods, like cars. There’s no question that folks with high student debt are not making as many big purchases.

Student debt isn't really the problem.  Lower average income compared to previous generations at the same age and higher cost of living are the problems.  The monthly payment to pay off 40k in student loans over 10 years is $450.  A 1 bdrm apartment in Austin is renting for $1400 a month.

Gen X ate ramen noodles for 2 years, paid interest only on student loans, took an entry level job, by year 3 in the workplace was doing well enough to pay down loans, and by year 5 had a down payment ready for a home.  That type of career path is largely unavailable now.  This is the real problem.  10 years in the workplace and still needing to buckle down and eat ramen every night while losing ground in purchasing power.  Even ramen costs 3 or 4 times as much as it did.  Everything goes up except salaries.

Also, there isn't going to be an appreciable hit on housing anywhere anyone wants to move.  While millennial nationwide incomes lag behind prior generations, they actually do well in urban centers and have been key in sending housing values up to the astronomical place they currently occupy.  Hipsters are nearly entirely millennial.  As are Silicon Valley types.  Yet those two groups have nearly single handedly driven up prices around SF, NYC, and Austin.

Edited February 24, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[CHIEF 5,094]

What do you do with the student loans of the 66% of college students that never graduate?

CHIEF

[Huckleberry 33,037]

6 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

What do you do with the student loans of the 66% of college students that never graduate?

CHIEF

*who

GRADUATE

[Brisketexan 105,161]

12 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Student debt isn't really the problem.  Lower average income compared to previous generations at the same age and higher cost of living are the problems.  The monthly payment to pay off 40k in student loans over 10 years is $450.  A 1 bdrm apartment in Austin is renting for $1400 a month.

Gen X ate ramen noodles for 2 years, paid interest only on student loans, took an entry level job, by year 3 in the workplace was doing well enough to pay down loans, and by year 5 had a down payment ready for a home.  That type of career path is largely unavailable now.  This is the real problem.  10 years in the workplace and still needing to buckle down and eat ramen every night while losing ground in purchasing power.  Even ramen costs 3 or 4 times as much as it did.  Everything goes up except salaries.

Also, there isn't going to be an appreciable hit on housing anywhere anyone wants to move.  While millennial nationwide incomes lag behind prior generations, they actually do well in urban centers and have been key in sending housing values up to the astronomical place they currently occupy.  Hipsters are nearly entirely millennial.  As are Silicon Valley types.  Yet those two groups have nearly single handedly driven up prices around SF, NYC, and Austin.

Appreciate the post.  Good thoughts, and I certainly think there's a confluence of factors economically hamstringing this generation.  It's not that everything costs more, but it is that everything that's a big cost item costs more (education,  healthcare, housing), so those big-ticket costs take up a much larger share of their income than they used to.

And that last element on housing is going to be the interesting one.  Maybe need to create a stand-alone thread on "the future of purchased housing," as I have a lot of hypotheses: I think that housing in rural and even far-out suburban markets may suffer as younger buyers want to be closer in, and will buy a smaller house to achieve that; young buyers don't want huge houses, houses on golf courses, etc.; there's going to be a bigger supply of big, fancy houses owned by boomers with a lot of money than there are younger buyers to buy them when the boomers start to die, etc.

Nevermind that economically, our future is urban.  Jim Bob can stay in Bumfuck and make $35k, or he can move to Big City and make $65k, which even with the extra costs of living, still puts him way ahead, AND it puts his kids in a place with a lot more opportunities.  We can keep paying lip service to how "the backbone of the country, the heartland of America, is rural America," but that's just not true anymore.  There will always be a need for some rural populations, we will still have agriculture, resource extraction, etc., but as a percentage of our overall population, it's going to be shockingly small.  Hell, the trendline is steep as hell -- in 1940, pre-war, the US was 56% urban.  In  2010, it was 80% urban.  That number is only going up.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

8 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

What do you do with the student loans of the 66% of college students that never graduate?

CHIEF

Buy them more Aggy T-shirts?

[Brisketexan 105,161]

8 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

What do you do with the student loans of the 66% of college students that never graduate?

CHIEF

I presume that they'll get donors to their political campaigns to pay them off.

[TexEx15 17,545]

I’m late to the Bernie rape fantasy party and see that bt is already defending it on the Bernie thread.  Was there any resolution to this during the 2016 primary?  Seems like a big deal.

[bad_teammate 13,218]

Rape fantasy party? lol

I don't know what you mean by "resolution", but it was discussed and attempts were made to make it an issue.

Campaign spokesman Michael Briggs called the essay a "dumb attempt at dark satire in an alternative publication" in an interview with CNN, adding that it "in no way reflects his views or record on women." He added, "It was intended to attack gender stereotypes of the '70s, but it looks as stupid today as it was then."

Here's the essay itself in full:

You can tell by the font used for the author's name that we're dealing with some COOL, EDGY alternative zine shit. lol

My main criticism of the essay is that it's kind of lazy.

He's challenging gender norms and the abusive sexualization inherent to patriarchy in 1972, which is pretty cool.

Overall... whatever.

Bernie "Rape Essay" Sanders

 

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

For all the people whining that Bernie can’t win the general, look at what a massive cash on hand lead he has on Trump: 

 

 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Appreciate the post.  Good thoughts, and I certainly think there's a confluence of factors economically hamstringing this generation.  It's not that everything costs more, but it is that everything that's a big cost item costs more (education,  healthcare, housing), so those big-ticket costs take up a much larger share of their income than they used to.

And that last element on housing is going to be the interesting one.  Maybe need to create a stand-alone thread on "the future of purchased housing," as I have a lot of hypotheses: I think that housing in rural and even far-out suburban markets may suffer as younger buyers want to be closer in, and will buy a smaller house to achieve that; young buyers don't want huge houses, houses on golf courses, etc.; there's going to be a bigger supply of big, fancy houses owned by boomers with a lot of money than there are younger buyers to buy them when the boomers start to die, etc.

Nevermind that economically, our future is urban.  Jim Bob can stay in Bumfuck and make $35k, or he can move to Big City and make $65k, which even with the extra costs of living, still puts him way ahead, AND it puts his kids in a place with a lot more opportunities.  We can keep paying lip service to how "the backbone of the country, the heartland of America, is rural America," but that's just not true anymore.  There will always be a need for some rural populations, we will still have agriculture, resource extraction, etc., but as a percentage of our overall population, it's going to be shockingly small.  Hell, the trendline is steep as hell -- in 1940, pre-war, the US was 56% urban.  In  2010, it was 80% urban.  That number is only going up.

Wal Mart, dollar general, dollar tree, buc-ees, et al , are and have been, destroying rural America for years. Talk about a trade deficit. 

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

Saying Bernie Sanders didn’t really mean that rape fantasy thing with his name on it is like saying Ron Paul didn’t really mean the things in the Ron Paul Political Report.

The similarities between the Ron Paul people and Bern’s people are really quite striking.

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Appreciate the post.  Good thoughts, and I certainly think there's a confluence of factors economically hamstringing this generation.  It's not that everything costs more, but it is that everything that's a big cost item costs more (education,  healthcare, housing), so those big-ticket costs take up a much larger share of their income than they used to.

And that last element on housing is going to be the interesting one.  Maybe need to create a stand-alone thread on "the future of purchased housing," as I have a lot of hypotheses: I think that housing in rural and even far-out suburban markets may suffer as younger buyers want to be closer in, and will buy a smaller house to achieve that; young buyers don't want huge houses, houses on golf courses, etc.; there's going to be a bigger supply of big, fancy houses owned by boomers with a lot of money than there are younger buyers to buy them when the boomers start to die, etc.

Nevermind that economically, our future is urban.  Jim Bob can stay in Bumfuck and make $35k, or he can move to Big City and make $65k, which even with the extra costs of living, still puts him way ahead, AND it puts his kids in a place with a lot more opportunities.  We can keep paying lip service to how "the backbone of the country, the heartland of America, is rural America," but that's just not true anymore.  There will always be a need for some rural populations, we will still have agriculture, resource extraction, etc., but as a percentage of our overall population, it's going to be shockingly small.  Hell, the trendline is steep as hell -- in 1940, pre-war, the US was 56% urban.  In  2010, it was 80% urban.  That number is only going up.

I said it in an earlier lost but I could make the case that land use is the one issue that touches every aspect.  It’s a local problem, though.

[bad_teammate 13,218]

16 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Saying Bernie Sanders didn’t really mean that rape fantasy thing with his name on it is like saying Ron Paul didn’t really mean the things in the Ron Paul Political Report.

The similarities between the Ron Paul people and Bern’s people are really quite striking.

What did he "mean" by it? Did you read it?

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

I read it. He wasn't a very good writer, but the whole 'rape fantasy' thing was to introduce the topic, otherwise people wouldn't have read the article about gender roles at all.

[ndawg 1,242]

I can imagine Bernie haters reading it and thinking, "finally, some legit dirt on the guy." But I can't imagine anyone reading it and deciding, "wow, I actually feel differently about Bernie Sanders now."

[RayDog 682]

4 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Won't hurt boomers, though. They'll die in those houses & it will be their last kick in the nuts to the economy.

With the Coronavirus there could be lots of Boomer homes on the market for quick sale in a few months.

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Appreciate the post.  Good thoughts, and I certainly think there's a confluence of factors economically hamstringing this generation.  It's not that everything costs more, but it is that everything that's a big cost item costs more (education,  healthcare, housing), so those big-ticket costs take up a much larger share of their income than they used to.

And that last element on housing is going to be the interesting one.  Maybe need to create a stand-alone thread on "the future of purchased housing," as I have a lot of hypotheses: I think that housing in rural and even far-out suburban markets may suffer as younger buyers want to be closer in, and will buy a smaller house to achieve that; young buyers don't want huge houses, houses on golf courses, etc.; there's going to be a bigger supply of big, fancy houses owned by boomers with a lot of money than there are younger buyers to buy them when the boomers start to die, etc.

Nevermind that economically, our future is urban.  Jim Bob can stay in Bumfuck and make $35k, or he can move to Big City and make $65k, which even with the extra costs of living, still puts him way ahead, AND it puts his kids in a place with a lot more opportunities.  We can keep paying lip service to how "the backbone of the country, the heartland of America, is rural America," but that's just not true anymore.  There will always be a need for some rural populations, we will still have agriculture, resource extraction, etc., but as a percentage of our overall population, it's going to be shockingly small.  Hell, the trendline is steep as hell -- in 1940, pre-war, the US was 56% urban.  In  2010, it was 80% urban.  That number is only going up.

The future of housing for America is Japan and Europe. You could go move into an empty house in the middle of nowhere practically for free, but housing prices in core cities will continue to rise even as the population grays or shrinks. Tokyo's core is still growing and increasing in cost even as Japan is shrinking. 

Personally, I'd buy one of those $1 homes in Sicily way before I bought one in small town America.  Building towns for the car makes for ugly towns. 

[gmr548 16,584]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Building towns for the car makes for ugly towns. 

Building towns for the car has a long list of negative consequences without a whole lot of added value. Land use, and how objectively bad land use policy has been in America since WWII, can be linked to almost every societal ill we have today. Agree with @Aqua Buddha on that front.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

46 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Saying Bernie Sanders didn’t really mean that rape fantasy thing with his name on it is like saying Ron Paul didn’t really mean the things in the Ron Paul Political Report.

The similarities between the Ron Paul people and Bern’s people are really quite striking.

Bernie is like a Ron Paul insurgent candidate in many ways.  It’s why I’m not surprised Bernie gets a lot of appeal among the youth.  He’s something different and that’s much of the attraction.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

4 hours ago, TexEx15 said:

I’m late to the Bernie rape fantasy party and see that bt is already defending it on the Bernie thread.  Was there any resolution to this during the 2016 primary?  Seems like a big deal.

Coverage started as soon as the Mother Jones article came out . . . See: https://www.cnn.com/2015/05/28/politics/bernie-sanders-rape-essay-1972/index.html

 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I read it. He wasn't a very good writer, but the whole 'rape fantasy' thing was to introduce the topic, otherwise people wouldn't have read the article about gender roles at all.

Agree. The "sexual revolution" of the late 60's and early 70's gave the country a whole lot of cringe (and too much . . . hair). If you had a boomer parent, they had the Joy of Sex - a book that gave children nightmares of giant bushes.  

It is a wonder any GenXer ever had sex.

[TexEx15 17,545]

 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Fire the guy (if that was his account), but explain how a private twitter account is the face of public harassment? Can anyone see his tweets if they are on a private account?

Edited February 25, 2020 by washparkhorn

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

Bern not driving the turnout that people think he is: