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2020 Democratic Nominee

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20939

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I think Biden is a mistake. I obviously am not a Democrat but I think historically a couple of things are true.

Republicans win by running against something or someone.

Democrats win by running for something or someone.

Just the way it seems to me. Biden is simply a plan to run against Trump, he brings no refreshing ideals that liberals care about. He'll stand up for Obamacare but only because he's tied to the first three syllables. He was in favor of the Iraq War, he is in favor of draconian drug laws, he was in favor of ending the ability to discharge student loans through bankruptcy and on and on. It's not just Bernie bros who will be turned off. Biden offers literally nothing to be hopeful about for liberal and progressive voters.

These are all good points. But Trump as POTUS Is such a different variable that past history or common sense might not be indicative this time around. 

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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

But, like, people don’t like Hillary. People like Joe. He has his faults, definitely, but people like him. It’s stupid how much more “decency” argument sticks when coming from someone you like.

joe's a goofball gaffe-machine, but seems like a fairly genuine good guy, and generally likable across the board.  people got excited to leave their houses to vote against hillary.  people who didn't give two shits about trump.  some of them are my relatives.  they hate trump now.

-the pro-trump people are likely still with trump, though i don't imagine this quadrant has grown much since 2016.

-the pro-hillary people hated trump then, and still do.

-the anti-trump people hated trump then, and still do.

-the anti-hillary people...well, she's not walking through that door (thank god).  i'm sure there are probably some anti-biden people, but nowhere near as many.  even the ukraine/hunter shit is dumb and got zero traction during the impeachment.  anyone who cares about hunter was already voting for trump.

bernie and biden should both win the popular vote by 5-7mm.  trump is that unpopular.  just gotta figure it out in the 3-5 states that actually matter.   

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

joe's a goofball gaffe-machine, but seems like a fairly genuine good guy, and generally likable across the board.  people got excited to leave their houses to vote against hillary.  people who didn't give two shits about trump.  some of them are my relatives.  they hate trump now.

-the pro-trump people are likely still with trump, though i don't imagine this quadrant has grown much since 2016.

-the pro-hillary people hated trump then, and still do.

-the anti-trump people hated trump then, and still do.

-the anti-hillary people...well, she's not walking through that door (thank god).  i'm sure there are probably some anti-biden people, but nowhere near as many.  even the ukraine/hunter shit is dumb and got zero traction during the impeachment.  anyone who cares about hunter was already voting for trump.

bernie and biden should both win the popular vote by 5-7mm.  trump is that unpopular.  just gotta figure it out in the 3-5 states that actually matter.   

Sounds like dems got it wrapped up.  You can bet against Trump and get very favorable odds. 

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mchookem

mchookem 16336

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I know you guys are strongly (even primarily) motivated by how much you hate anonymous online personalities, but you have to understand that makes you a freak anomaly among actual voters.
 

 

there are people here that have said they will now vote for Bernie despite supporters like you. 

get over yourself

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Old Freak Nasty

Old Freak Nasty 821

Posted
Posted

Warren is the most competent Dem candidate standing by far and it's not even close and she's getting my vote in the Texas primary tomorrow but I applaud the moderates for picking a horse and going with Biden.  I think a theoretical Biden administration is going to be strong with all these flurry of endorsers finding their way into it (mostly because I view Biden as a figurehead president if he were elected).  Pete, Amy, and Beto can get a lot done and I'm sure Warren will have a seat at the table if she wants it to continue the evolution of her regulatory work she began with the CFPB.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

joe's a goofball gaffe-machine, but seems like a fairly genuine good guy, and generally likable across the board.  people got excited to leave their houses to vote against hillary.  people who didn't give two shits about trump.  some of them are my relatives.  they hate trump now.

-the pro-trump people are likely still with trump, though i don't imagine this quadrant has grown much since 2016.

-the pro-hillary people hated trump then, and still do.

-the anti-trump people hated trump then, and still do.

-the anti-hillary people...well, she's not walking through that door (thank god).  i'm sure there are probably some anti-biden people, but nowhere near as many.  even the ukraine/hunter shit is dumb and got zero traction during the impeachment.  anyone who cares about hunter was already voting for trump.

bernie and biden should both win the popular vote by 5-7mm.  trump is that unpopular.  just gotta figure it out in the 3-5 states that actually matter.   

I generally agree, but Biden is part of the Obama/Hillary/Biden triangle - and to trumpers, he will bring similar heat from Trump voters who see them as mortal enemies with the impeachment. The impeachment hatred is real from the trumpers. They will be fired up - if Biden somehow attains the nomination. We should not downplay that motivation. 

Pro-Trump people vary - from the hardcore Kluxers to soft suburban Trump supporters. His numbers went up after he the conviction failed. That has made them a little more emboldened. But there are still getables (who may switch) and demotivated (who may not vote). But see above - Biden is part of that triangle that all Trump voters despise for the impeachment. We will need all oars in the water. 

Pro-Hillary - they may be the loudest, but their numbers have shrunk. The pro-Obama numbers have shrunk (don't shoot the messenger). They have added the never-trumpet republican and neocons, but that is a small subset of people. 

Anti-Trump (I assume these are the ones outside of the pro-Hillary group) - This group has grown significantly, largely due to Sanders. This is a broad coalition of working and middle class voters with diversity. (I assume we are not speaking of the Southeast). Bernie has motivated this group. This group may not turnout for Biden because they feel many of the same slights with the ongoing class conflict. Intersectional politics brings this group together over class and discrimination issues. 

Anti-Hillary (anti-Establishment/anti-return to normalcy/anti-status quo) - This is a broad group - wide and deep. There is crossover with anti-trump. This is the group where lip service will not work. Biden is the highest risk. Warren should be better with this group, but her lurch to the center was extremely off-putting and Obamaesque (run as a progressive/govern as an establishment candidate - don't shoot the messenger). They are excited about Bernie, but may not show up to vote. This is the group both Trump and the Establishment want to de-motivate. That is a scary gambit. 

With Biden - you add motivation for Trump voters and lose many in the Sanders movement. That is not good math.  

It does come down to states. The red states will tend to stay red. Bluer states will be bluer. Does working class joe work in the upper midwest? Don't know. Will Biden win Florida - nope. 2016 was a rejection of the Obama/Hllary/Biden triangle. I do not know how that outcome is any different in 2020. 

Does an FDR Democrat pickup any of those states? Perhaps, but not Florida. 

Bottom line - Biden was a very risky pick by the establishment after their Bloomberg ploy failed. I don't know why the Establishment abandoned Warren after she moved to the center. She has no lane right now. I said it at the time, she made the move to the center far too soon. She lost her natural allies, which was a mistake. 

Sanders remains the one to beat. He will have a good supertuesday - especially with California and their delegates. He will have good numbers in Texas and other states. 

Does he beat Trump - most certainly, but he will have to battle the establishment all the way. 

Sanders is in for the long-haul. The race after Super Tuesday will be bloody and destructive, because he will return every attack. This is too important of an election for his supporters. And they are a movement - with or without Sanders. 

 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

I generally agree, but Biden is part of the Obama/Hillary/Biden triangle - and to trumpers, he will bring similar heat from Trump voters who see them as mortal enemies with the impeachment. The impeachment hatred is real from the trumpers. They will be fired up - if Biden somehow attains the nomination. We should not downplay that motivation. 

Pro-Trump people vary - from the hardcore Kluxers to soft suburban Trump supporters. His numbers went up after he the conviction failed. That has made them a little more emboldened. But there are still getables (who may switch) and demotivated (who may not vote). But see above - Biden is part of that triangle that all Trump voters despise for the impeachment. We will need all oars in the water. 

Pro-Hillary - they may be the loudest, but their numbers have shrunk. The pro-Obama numbers have shrunk (don't shoot the messenger). They have added the never-trumpet republican and neocons, but that is a small subset of people. 

Anti-Trump (I assume these are the ones outside of the pro-Hillary group) - This group has grown significantly, largely due to Sanders. This is a broad coalition of working and middle class voters with diversity. (I assume we are not speaking of the Southeast). Bernie has motivated this group. This group may not turnout for Biden because they feel many of the same slights with the ongoing class conflict. Intersectional politics brings this group together over class and discrimination issues. 

Anti-Hillary (anti-Establishment/anti-return to normalcy/anti-status quo) - This is a broad group - wide and deep. There is crossover with anti-trump. This is the group where lip service will not work. Biden is the highest risk. Warren should be better with this group, but her lurch to the center was extremely off-putting and Obamaesque (run as a progressive/govern as an establishment candidate - don't shoot the messenger). They are excited about Bernie, but may not show up to vote. This is the group both Trump and the Establishment want to de-motivate. That is a scary gambit. 

With Biden - you add motivation for Trump voters and lose many in the Sanders movement. That is not good math.  

It does come down to states. The red states will tend to stay red. Bluer states will be bluer. Does working class joe work in the upper midwest? Don't know. Will Biden win Florida - nope. 2016 was a rejection of the Obama/Hllary/Biden triangle. I do not know how that outcome is any different in 2020. 

Does an FDR Democrat pickup any of those states? Perhaps, but not Florida. 

Bottom line - Biden was a very risky pick by the establishment after their Bloomberg ploy failed. I don't know why the Establishment abandoned Warren after she moved to the center. She has no lane right now. I said it at the time, she made the move to the center far too soon. She lost her natural allies, which was a mistake. 

Sanders remains the one to beat. He will have a good supertuesday - especially with California and their delegates. He will have good numbers in Texas and other states. 

Does he beat Trump - most certainly, but he will have to battle the establishment all the way. 

Sanders is in for the long-haul. The race after Super Tuesday will be bloody and destructive, because he will return every attack. This is too important of an election for his supporters. And they are a movement - with or without Sanders. 

 

you wrote a lot, and i’m sure plenty of it is accurate. but the 4 quadrants i was referring to were specific groupings of the motives from 2016 voters, not just people who fit into one category or another moving forward. (it was in response to the comment about hillary’s general unlikability).

those 4 groups from 2016 cover a lot of ground, and i was basically tracking their size and strength from then to now. it may not determine who beats trump, but it has zero to do with bernie vs biden. 

i also think you put too much stock in the triangle. plenty of hillary/obama people still don’t like each other. but they all fucking hate trump. and that hate has absolutely zero to do with bernie. 

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EMAWesome

EMAWesome 101

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

And the Trump War Room is Johnny on the Sack with their attacks. 

 

How is a movement that separates everything by race, gender, and sexual identity going to expand the electorate?  It's going to do the opposite.  Every time anyone doesn't meet the absolute purity test of the rabid core of the movement that core will purge them from it.  That movement is destined to collapse on itself like a black hole.

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EMAWesome

EMAWesome 101

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, sachick said:


I think she staying in because she knows she the best one for the job and those other two are goobers.

But seriously, I just don’t get how Warren doesn’t get any traction. IMO she is clearly the best option. She would kill Trump in a debate. 

To use an ironically appropriate metaphor she would be George Custer in a debate against Trump.  The moment Trump says Pocahontas the debate is over.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

How is a movement that separates everything by race, gender, and sexual identity going to expand the electorate? 

You are mistaking Bernie's movement for something else you heard on Fox News. They provided you with misinformation - intentionally or because the speaker doesn't know his ass from a hole in the wall. Let me guess - does the dude who said that look like a robot or does he have an accent? Who was the Fox talking head who fed you that take?  With one exception - Fox News has no idea what is going on in the Democratic race. Have any questions, though, feel free to ask. 

18f63da788676594b191d64cc08efc58.jpg&f=1

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EMAWesome

EMAWesome 101

Posted
Posted

You thick headed baboons just automatically think that because someone doesn't agree with you they must not do anything other than watch Fox News with their life.   The only difference between Bernie and the rest of the idiots on the left is that he also has a soundbite proclaiming bread lines to be a good thing to use against him in an election.  Well that and the fact that his supporters hate the Democrat establishment even more than they hate Trump.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

Posted
Posted
You thick headed baboons just automatically think that because someone doesn't agree with you they must not do anything other than watch Fox News with their life.   The only difference between Bernie and the rest of the idiots on the left is that he also has a soundbite proclaiming bread lines to be a good thing to use against him in an election.  Well that and the fact that his supporters hate the Democrat establishment even more than they hate Trump.


No one thinks you only watch Fox News because you disagree with posters here.

They know you watch Fox News because you only post here sporadically and the content you post is often a regurgitation of whatever Fox News has declared the outrage or gotcha of the day.

That and your opinions are generally dumb, based on half truths, distorted facts, and filled with barely disguised dog whistles.

Exhibit A - the post I just quoted FFS.
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EMAWesome

EMAWesome 101

Posted
Posted

I'm wondering how you know what Fox News has declared the outrage or gotcha of the day if you don't watch it?   I only post here sporadically because I have other things to do with my life.   The foursome behind me runs out of patience really quick when I stop after putting out to make a post here with my cell phone.

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Thrawn

Thrawn 538

Posted
Posted

In a two horse race between Bernie and Biden I’m picking Bernie. Biden right now just seems like a less creepy more sane version of Trump. Mush brain. He doesn’t appear to have any real big ideas on how to fix this country or any real convictions.  Well, besides just wanting to beat Trump. Although if he can get that done, then more power to him. At least he should be able to rollback some of the damage caused and I’m sure I will like his SC nominees much better.

When I vote in a couple of weeks though, I’m still voting for Sanders or Warren. I just can’t get myself to vote for Joe right now when there are still better options. In the general I will be 100%  behind Joe if he gets the nomination (eve at a brokered convention). I will even buy a stupid hat to help counteract all the old retirees in my neighborhood and their ugly red hats.

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ClubWhatever

ClubWhatever 12144

Posted
Posted

Ain’t no fuckin way Trump wins again.  Popular vote, electoral vote, or hamburger vote.  I can name 10 friends and family who could not bring themselves to vote for Hillary but who have already said they will vote for a frog over Trump.  That’s going to be the case with just about every middle of the road voter in every state.  He’s done.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

Posted
Posted



Now you’re accusing me and other posters on your side as liars and acting out of grievance and spite and claiming we’re fucking over swaths of people because we don’t want to vote for Bernie.

I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m forced into making a pragmatic choice from the options left.


You're making a pragmatic choice?

What were the pragmatic criteria used?

In closing, beat us.


OK
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Dropout

Dropout 355

Posted
Posted

Back to the basics. So we like being run by billionaires? Like their laws and vision for the country? Like that they take all the new money being made? We like that they buy and own our politicians? Bloomberg admitted it on live television. The easiest thing to turn the tide would be your vote against all that but let’s be mad about snake emojis and calling rat names. I’d rather our kids fight revolutions in the street. Builds character.

In the last few days it’s been simplified in the most basic way imaginable for this timeline. Are you flav or chuck d?

 

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11671

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Old Freak Nasty said:

Warren is the most competent Dem candidate standing by far and it's not even close and she's getting my vote in the Texas primary tomorrow but I applaud the moderates for picking a horse and going with Biden.  I think a theoretical Biden administration is going to be strong with all these flurry of endorsers finding their way into it (mostly because I view Biden as a figurehead president if he were elected).  Pete, Amy, and Beto can get a lot done and I'm sure Warren will have a seat at the table if she wants it to continue the evolution of her regulatory work she began with the CFPB.

This is the bargaining stage of grief.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

Ain’t no fuckin way Trump wins again.  Popular vote, electoral vote, or hamburger vote.  I can name 10 friends and family who could not bring themselves to vote for Hillary but who have already said they will vote for a frog over Trump.  That’s going to be the case with just about every middle of the road voter in every state.  He’s done.  

Said me, said you, said everybody all through 2016. 

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15051

Posted
Posted
To use an ironically appropriate metaphor she would be George Custer in a debate against Trump.  The moment Trump says Pocahontas the debate is over.


That disgusting immature behavior may work on ignorant voters like you and the other 41%, but most people who have actually objectively observed and analyzed his behavior have figured out he’s a corrupt grifter with the intelligence of a cow.
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horncyclist

horncyclist 1387

Posted
Posted

I'll be voting for Elizabeth Warren this morning. She's the most qualified of the bunch and has a vision for where we need to go. I think, if nominated, she would win and she would be great. Absent Bernie having a heart attach again, she probably has no chance, but I'll feel good about my vote.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

Posted
Posted

Guys, we are going to tell America that Trump is a bad man! That's how we win!

Want 100% guaranteed universal healthcare? Fuck off!
Want relief from crushing debt? Fuck off!
Want higher wages? Fuck off!
Want strengthened unions? Fuck off!
Want an end to forever war? Fuck off!
Want someone other than Wall Street running fiscal policy? Fuck off!
Want the Green New Deal? Fuck off!
Want humane drug policy? Fuck off!
Want an end to cages and deportation? Fuck off!
Want an end to cash bail? Fuck off!
Want a jobs guarantee? Fuck off!
Want to expand Social Security? Fuck off!
Want SS to at least be off the table in deficit and debt reduction talks? Fuck off!
Want leadership unbeholden to billionaires? Fuck off!

That's all bullshit. Here's the real shit: There's a guy on the Internet who was condescending to me when I said I supported progressive values. He said he didn't believe me and he was ultimately right, but FUCK HIM!

This, my friends, is the message to rally the spirits and enthusiasm of the most important voting base in the nation. The ones who should lead us into the future...

White people in the suburbs!

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13512

Posted
Posted

Presumably Biden is going to keep picking up endorsements as many of the states start to vote. At least with the statewide and national candidates.

And this was before the head spinning day of endorsements but probably was impacted by the previous endorsements in NC and VA.

I believe Biden is going to have a big day. Bernie will as well but less than what he thought a few days ago. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Which is one of many, many reasons I'd have zero problems voting for him over trump.  

A president can do enough with executive orders and the EPA to make fracking cost at least ten dollars more per barrel to produce.  Ruining the economy in several states including this one.  
 

It would be dumb and anti-science, but Bernie is very anti-fracking, so I take him at his word he wants to end it.  

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, EMAWesome said:

How is a movement that separates everything by race, gender, and sexual identity going to expand the electorate?  It's going to do the opposite.  Every time anyone doesn't meet the absolute purity test of the rabid core of the movement that core will purge them from it.  That movement is destined to collapse on itself like a black hole.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here? IMO, the movement doesn't separate everything by those categories as much as recognize that citizens in those categories share rights equally.

4 hours ago, EMAWesome said:

To use an ironically appropriate metaphor she would be George Custer in a debate against Trump.  The moment Trump says Pocahontas the debate is over.

Again, just my opinion, but no doubt there are many Americans who would relish watching the President attack a woman on live television. Especially a smart driven woman who has the educational background of Warren. But deep down, Trump knows that Warren is not Hillary Clinton. He is very very afraid. She would have the ability to make him look rather like Bloomberg a debate wherein every attempt to retort or reply would probably dig a deeper hole. He cannot prepare for that. If she was the nominee, no Burisma, no Hunter, no history with Russia that I am aware of.

 

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alincoln

alincoln 2371

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I know you guys are strongly (even primarily) motivated by how much you hate anonymous online personalities, but you have to understand that makes you a freak anomaly among actual voters.

It didn't work. It's a losing play.

It's a side dish at best. It's not the main. It's not even an appetizer.

I'm voting Biden in the primary because bad_teammate.  

I hope the rest of this board and the country join me.

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18234

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

I think Biden is a mistake. I obviously am not a Democrat but I think historically a couple of things are true.

Republicans win by running against something or someone.

Democrats win by running for something or someone.

Just the way it seems to me. Biden is simply a plan to run against Trump, he brings no refreshing ideals that liberals care about. He'll stand up for Obamacare but only because he's tied to the first three syllables. He was in favor of the Iraq War, he is in favor of draconian drug laws, he was in favor of ending the ability to discharge student loans through bankruptcy and on and on. It's not just Bernie bros who will be turned off. Biden offers literally nothing to be hopeful about for liberal and progressive voters.

Maybe.  But at this point it’s him or Bernie, and Biden’s a safer bet to actually beat Trump (which is Goal #1).

The candidate who offers the best ideas is Warren, but she has no hope of winning the nomination at this point.  

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32861

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Maybe.  But at this point it’s him or Bernie, and Biden’s a safer bet to actually beat Trump (which is Goal #1).

The candidate who offers the best ideas is Warren, but she has no hope of winning the nomination at this point.  

That's the part I disagree with. I think Sanders beats Trump more easily than Biden. 

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